Compassion, illness, intimacy, and how to avoid making one partner feel left out.

lunabunny

New member
As forum regulars probably know, I am the poly hinge in a long distance "V" between my two monogamish partners. Jester and Boho used to be FWB years ago, but are no longer directly sexually or romantically involved with each other, although they are still very close friends.

So far, I have spent about one month in total with each partner in person - including four days in which all three of us were together mid-last year. During that time we were trying to figure out if we'd work as a triad, and as a consequence did a little exploring/playing together, but ultimately it didn't work out and we settled into our comfortable V.

A couple of months ago Boho was diagnosed with cancer and has since been undergoing treatment. Our polycule's next visit is scheduled for December when all three of us will be spending a few weeks together in a rented house (I'm travelling to their country). Boho will be nearing the end of her chemo treatment by then and her doctor has okayed the trip as long as she's up to it. She is super keen to go, despite the fact that she will most certainly be low on energy, immuno-compromised, and in some degree of physical discomfort.

My concern relates to how to navigate Boho's well-being when it comes to sexual intimacy, physical affection... and each dyads' privacy as it relates to intimacy during this time.

Obviously, since it will have been quite a long time since I've seen either partner in person, reconnecting intimately (in both a physical and emotional sense) will be a priority. There may be many things Boho will simply not be up for, physically/sexually or emotionally. I understand the reasons for this and certainly don't intend to pressure her into anything she's not feeling at the time.

That said, Jester and I will undoubtedly want to express our own love/desire/affection for each other physically. My question is how to achieve this in a way that is both fulfilling for he and I, and yet sensitive and mindful of Boho's differing needs and limited capacity for similar expression, given that she will be present the entire time?

Jester and I are conscious of the potential for unwittingly making Boho feel excluded or like a third wheel, and are actively seeking to avoid such a scenario. On the other hand, we do not wish to curtail our own physical expression of love to the extent that we're left yearning and unfulfilled after so long apart. (i.e. I spent time with Boho earlier this year, but not Jester.)

Prior to Boho's diagnosis, she and I had been exploring a D/s dynamic which we were both enjoying (but which probably won't be able to continue under present circumstances) and she, Jester and I had all agreed that during this upcoming trip, we'd see where things led naturally regarding physical expressions of affection and intimacy between the three of us (whether that would be limited to group hugs, cuddling and/or light petting... or may extend to group sex or even sex between Jester and Boho alone, had yet to be determined). However the plan was to discuss boundaries and limits closer to the trip, with an emphasis on trying to be inclusive without overstepping anyone's comfort zone this time around (i.e. things went somewhat awry last time we were all together).

Now everything seems up in the air and fraught with potential to cause inequity, jealousy/envy and hurt feelings. The problem is, I'm not really sure how to divide my attentions between my co-primaries in a "live and in person" scenario, especially under these circumstances. Moreover, I'm not really sure how to go about PDA when one partner will be have compromised immunity, without causing any party to feel neglected.
 
That said, Jester and I will undoubtedly want to express our own love/desire/affection for each other physically. My question is how to achieve this in a way that is both fulfilling for he and I, and yet sensitive and mindful of Boho's differing needs and limited capacity for similar expression, given that she will be present the entire time?
Don't make it 'present all the time'. Schedule some apart time, where you can get sex with Jester, and Boho can get some rest. Schedule some intimate alone time with Boho too, where you can cuddle and have a good time, or conversely, talk about her illness and help her cry, without having to manage a third person. I believe that dropping the 'together all the time' expectation could make things much easier.
 
How about talking to Boho directly? She may be dealing with cancer, but you having another partner is not news. She knows this already! She also knows that with LDR opportunities to connect aren't as often as local.

Maybe something like...

"Boho, can we talk? I have concerns about the trip. I want to spent my time with each of you fairly on this trip. We all agreed that during this upcoming trip, we'd see where things lead naturally regarding physical expressions of affection and intimacy between the three of us. We also agreed to talk as the trip got closer but I find that I need some talks now so I can start to get my head in the right space. When could be a good time to talk for you? (Wait for her to agree, set a good time. Don't just jump into it. When the talk appointment comes...)

How are you feeling about dyads? Jester and I are probably going to want to share sex. I want to do that in a way that in a way that is both fulfilling for he and I, and yet sensitive, respectful, and mindful of your differing needs at this time.

You and I will want some intimate time on our own... and I don't know how you feel about that either. I imagine anything D/s if off the table, but what might be on the table?

Basically I don't want to hurt you -- neither physically, emotionally, mentally, etc."​

I think that would give you more usable and more accurate answers than Internet people guessing as to what she might want or be up for. She herself would be more accurate.

Talk with her, thank her for her time, and then do another "touch up" convo closer to the trip to be sure all are still on the same page or in case things with her condition have changed.

However the plan was to discuss boundaries and limits closer to the trip, with an emphasis on trying to be inclusive without overstepping anyone's comfort zone this time around (i.e. things went somewhat awry last time we were all together).


I still think this is a good plan even with the dx. What happened to make it all "up in the air?" Cancer might change where the boundaries/abilities lie right now. (Like before D/s, but now hold off on that part.) But talking before the trip still sound good to me. How else would you know ahead of time what is on the table or not?

Moreover, I'm not really sure how to go about PDA when one partner will be have compromised immunity, without causing any party to feel neglected.
One practical thing you and Jester can do is go get your flu shots. Boho who is immunocompromised prob cannot get one. But you guys can so you aren't bringing things on the trip you don't mean to bring and passing them to her.

Could plan lower key things well spread out. Like the "biggest people" thing might be eating out at a restaurant rather than going to a stadium rock concert. Less people = less germs to expose herself to.

You have time also to be sure the rented house has enough bedrooms so that if Boho can retreat/rest if she wants space/privacy. And you and Jester can limit sexual expression to a room that has a door like a different bedroom. Like you can be as loud and funky as you want inside that private room... but Boho isn't walking into a common room like the kitchen to get some tea and seeing y'all at it. YKWIM?

If Boho has a pattern by then, could be willing to work around it. Like if she's freshest in the morning? Spend that time with her in that dyad. Then take the afternoons/evenings with Jester.

Or if she can do 3 things max a day? Do only 2. Always leave a "space" open for handling an emergency. It's nicer to have a "bonus" space available than to plan for 3, have something happen, and then overextend a patient to 4.

Galagirl
 
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I'm wondering why the option of everyone playing together is back on the table? On the one hand, I guess it's a good thing not to be completely closed off to any option. But you mentioned in the beginning of this post that the triad dynamic didn't really work in the past, and I remember you going into detail when I was having my KTP dilemma and it seemed like you were rather uncomfortable navigating that dynamic as a hinge?

It sounds like with Boho's illness, navigating the time spent in the shared house between the two relationships will be challenging in and of itself. Especially if Boho's participation ends up being limited by illness, would it maybe be better to explore activities between the three of you at a later time, and in the meantime going with some of GG suggestions about how to utilize the space in the shared house? Otherwise I completely appreciate the concerns about Boho feeling left out, or Jester feeling left wanting. I'd have anxiety up to here in that situation!
 
I'm a cancer survivor and I have a former bf and a good friend who have had recent battles, and undergone surgery or chemo or both.

We are of different ages, and have had different degrees and types of cancers. We have all had unique responses to our chemo. My ex bf was a good deal younger than me. He was in his late 30s, whereas I was 60ish when I had surgery and chemo. He was having regular chemo infusions when I was dating him. He'd have 2 "tired" days and then be back to normal energy levels. I was pretty amazed at how unaffected he'd been by his chemo, when I started undergoing mine. I felt 90 years old by my 5th infusion. Then I had my 6th and my eyelashes fell out. Ugh.

But somehow I rallied and 2 months after my last infusion I flew from Boston to Asheville NC and had a nice mini vacation with friends. I did great! I did lots of sightseeing. I ran through airports both there and back because of delays in flight connections. I only needed one 1 1/2 hr nap a day. I was on the trip with my oldest best friend and my sister. I didn't feel left out by them when I took my afternoon nap. I was happy to get left behind in the hotel room to sleep while they did an activity, in fact.

(I'd say the same thing applies to sex. Let Boho set her own pace. Even she can't predict NOW, how sexual she will feel LATER, when you all have your vacation together.)

But weirdly, another month or so after my trip, I went downhill, got so tired, I felt almost worse than when I was actually getting my infusions. It took a good 12 months to feel almost normal, and 16 months to say I was completely back to my old self.

Then my friend's experience was somewhere in the middle. She is a decade younger than me. As far as I can tell her energy levels are somewhere in between my ex bf's and mine, and her pain is worse because her cancer was farther along before it was discovered. I was 1A, she was 4! She is still doing immunotherapy. She was mid chemo treatments when she flew from RI to Florida last December with her husband and adult daughter. I don't know how she could have flown all that way mid chemo. I couldn't have! But she was determined to use their new vacation home and be warm and near the water all winter.

So. tl;dr-- Responses to cancer and chemo vary between individuals because of age, type of cancer, degree of cancer, and other factors as well. Let Boho set her own pace. Pamper her. Love her. The sex and activities probably won't matter to her as much as just being with you and feeling the positive loving energies.
 
Hi lunabunny,

I am thinking you will need to make some provisions for privacy, with just light PDA's when the three of you are together in the same room. Also it sounds like you may be thinking about doing a threesome? If that happens, do it with care, and make sure all three of you are 100% onboard with it. I'm thinking there will be strain from two sources, one being Boho's weakened condition, the other being the trauma you experienced the last time there was a threesome, and how your nerves will be this time around. But I don't want to belabor that point.

Once the three of you are all together (in person), in the house you're renting, take some time to talk with Boho and find out how she is feeling at that time. What she is and isn't feeling up to. How you can help her feel included. Then check in with her every couple of days. Maybe she will be feeling different on one day than she is on another.

Anyway that's my suggestion. You should probably talk to her well before the trip, let her know how you are thinking of handling things, and find out how she feels about it. Maybe she doesn't want to be fussed over, I don't know. Communication is the key.

I hope you'll all three have a good time.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
First of all I just want to thank everyone who responded with thoughtful advice and practical suggestions. You all helped me to clarify the issues in my own head. :)

Don't make it 'present all the time'. Schedule some apart time, where you can get sex with Jester, and Boho can get some rest. Schedule some intimate alone time with Boho too, where you can cuddle and have a good time, or conversely, talk about her illness and help her cry, without having to manage a third person. I believe that dropping the 'together all the time' expectation could make things much easier.

Thank you, Tinwen. Your suggestions are all valid and wise.

If it wasn't clear, I didn't mean we'd all be together in the same room at every minute of the day, but that we will be in the same house, with only one car between us. (With the exception of the first night, which Boho and I will spend alone in a hotel in LA.)

Before her diagnosis the "plan" was for Boho or Jester to go out and do their own thing for a few hours every so often, in order for the dyads to get some "alone time". However, as it'll be winter time (albeit relatively warm in California), Boho probably won't be up to going out in public on her own for any length of time. And as I haven't yet learned to drive on the "right" side of the road ;) - we will essentially be together for the duration.

As you say, I will have to make a conscious effort (well, we all will) so as to provide space and time for each of us to connect separately with the other/s.

How about talking to Boho directly? She may be dealing with cancer, but you having another partner is not news. She knows this already! She also knows that with LDR opportunities to connect aren't as often as local.

I think that would give you more usable and more accurate answers than Internet people guessing as to what she might want or be up for. She herself would be more accurate.

Talk with her, thank her for her time, and then do another "touch up" convo closer to the trip to be sure all are still on the same page or in case things with her condition have changed.

As always, your advice is spot on and comprehensive, GalaGirl.

No, obviously none of this really comes as a surprise to anyone involved, and I've since had a somewhat in-depth discussion about all this with Boho herself. (I'd previously talked to Jester about my concerns. And, yes, we WILL follow up at a later date in case anything unexpected should come up in the interim.)

It's not so much that I was expecting any of you (internet strangers :p ) to guess what she would or wouldn't be up for... but rather, I was seeking advice as to how to approach the topic, both in conversation and reality (before and during the visit)... and to gauge whether or not my concerns are even valid, or if I'm just pre-empting potential issues where none may exist. As an overthinker, I tend to do that (or so I'm told). ;)

What happened to make it all "up in the air?" Cancer might change where the boundaries/abilities lie right now. But talking before the trip still sound good to me. How else would you know ahead of time what is on the table or not?

Perhaps my language was overdramatic. To partially answer your question, see my response to Tinwen's comment. I guess we had certain plans and expectations for this trip that now might have to be taken off the table due to the change in circumstances. (For example, we don't yet know what Boho will be feeling up to participating in, sexually or otherwise... we do actually have tickets to a stadium concert... we had been considering continuing the D/s (and/or group) play... we had been planning for each of us to leave the premises to give the others some space.) Now I'm not sure what is realistic to expect, is what I meant by that comment.

One practical thing you and Jester can do is go get your flu shots. Boho who is immunocompromised prob cannot get one. But you guys can so you aren't bringing things on the trip you don't mean to bring and passing them to her.

This is the most useful advice ever - thank you! I'm not sure how I overlooked something that is probably pretty obvious to most people, except to say that (although I've known many people with cancer) this is the first time I will be dealing with it in such a personal way, with someone so close to me.

Luckily, Boho is very proactive about her health in general and had already had her flu shot. But yes, great idea.

Could plan lower key things well spread out. Like the "biggest people" thing might be eating out at a restaurant rather than going to a stadium rock concert. Less people = less germs to expose herself to.

Sensible advice once again. Unfortunately, that is exactly what we HAD planned (rock concert). I've already said to Boho that if she can't go, it's not a big deal. And she's adamant that at least Jester and I should go. (It's my all-time favourite artist.) We'd also planned to meet up with another Stateside friend and have dinner, pre-concert... so I'm not sure if any of these things will still be possible. All I know is Boho's health comes first.

You have time also to be sure the rented house has enough bedrooms so that if Boho can retreat/rest if she wants space/privacy. And you and Jester can limit sexual expression to a room that has a door like a different bedroom... YKWIM?

Yup, I know exactly what you mean. And luckily we HAD thought ahead about this - the place has plenty of bedrooms and private areas.[/QUOTE]

I'm wondering why the option of everyone playing together is back on the table? On the one hand, I guess it's a good thing not to be completely closed off to any option. But you mentioned in the beginning of this post that the triad dynamic didn't really work in the past, and I remember you going into detail when I was having my KTP dilemma and it seemed like you were rather uncomfortable navigating that dynamic as a hinge?

Last time the three of us were all together, my post- group sex "melt-down" was triggered by two separate issues:

- Repressed anger, jealousy and resentment toward Boho (and to some extent Jester) for things that had happened between us in the past, that weren't fully resolved. And...

- Memories of a past trauma that occurred in a similar sexual/relationship situation, that came flooding back in that moment.

I guess I've done a lot of work on myself and my own insecurities over the past 6mths-1yr --- with the help of an excellent therapist, I might add.

To clarify, Bellerose: it's not so much that there is an *expectation* that we'll all play together again, it's just not completely off the table any more. Since the last time, we have explored these things (occasionally) in a cyber sense by sharing fantasies, pictures and video between the three of us. And, yes, it's something we will move forward with verrrry slowly and carefully this time, and talk about in detail every step of the way, which is something that didn't happen last time despite best intentions.

Nothing may happen in this regard at all (group stuff) this time around. However I think it's important the three of us are all on the same page and comfortable with physical expressions of affection at the very least, (mentally and emotionally) as we're planning to live together sometime in the fairly near future.
 
I'm a cancer survivor and I have a former bf and a good friend who have had recent battles, and undergone surgery or chemo or both... We have all had unique responses to our chemo. My ex bf was a good deal younger than me. He was in his late 30s, whereas I was 60ish when I had surgery and chemo... I felt 90 years old by my 5th infusion. Then I had my 6th and my eyelashes fell out. Ugh.
But somehow I rallied and 2 months after my last infusion I flew from Boston to Asheville NC and had a nice mini vacation with friends. I did great
!

Hi, Magdlyn - yes, I'm aware of your history with cancer and I'm glad you came through that eventually and are here to tell the tale (And offer advice.) :)

Boho is more or less in the age group you were when diagnosed, and her cancer was also caught in the early stages although there have already been some unexpected hiccups she's had to deal with.

I know treatment can and does affect everyone differently. Two of Boho's former partners dealt with cancer themselves (one survived, one did not), so she's both familiar with the process and apprehensive because she knows first-hand that you can't predict how a person will react ahead of time.

In December, she will be almost done with her series of chemo infusions, so it's anyone's guess as to how run-down she will be feeling, or how much pain she'll be in. I'm optimistic and supportive - in general, and in regards to the trip - yet kinda scared for her at the same time.

I was on the trip with my oldest best friend and my sister. I didn't feel left out by them when I took my afternoon nap. I was happy to get left behind in the hotel room to sleep while they did an activity, in fact.
(I'd say the same thing applies to sex. Let Boho set her own pace
. Even she can't predict NOW, how sexual she will feel LATER, when you all have your vacation together.)

And I will let her set the pace and shower her with as much love and affection as she wants (or not, if she doesn't). I guess my main concern besides her actual health (pain, sickness etc) is not inadvertently saying or doing something "wrong" that would upset her at this time.

Hi lunabunny,

I am thinking you will need to make some provisions for privacy, with just light PDA's when the three of you are together in the same room. Also it sounds like you may be thinking about doing a threesome? If that happens, do it with care, and make sure all three of you are 100% onboard with it.

Hi, Kevin. No, not really thinking seriously about a full-on threesome this time. At least not anymore. (I mean, it was a possibility before this diagnosis, but probably ruled out now). However what hasn't been ruled out is some degree of physical affection/sexual interaction between the three of us. I'm not sure to WHAT degree.

I'm thinking there will be strain from two sources, one being Boho's weakened condition, the other being the trauma you experienced the last time there was a threesome, and how your nerves will be this time around. But I don't want to belabor that point.

It's okay, that's exactly where my head is at too. After last time's fiasco, I am concerned that everything go "right" this time and that I don't end up hurting anyone unnecessarily.

Once the three of you are all together (in person), in the house you're renting, take some time to talk with Boho and find out how she is feeling at that time... Maybe she will be feeling different on one day than she is on another.

Yep, I think it's highly likely that she will be feeling different from one day to the next, in regards to how much she can cope with physically. Emotionally, she will probably be up and down also.

I have now had a convo with Boho about all this, and intend to talk further and in more depth closer to the time (and again once we're actually there). Thank you for your good wishes.
 
I have now had a convo with Boho about all this, and intend to talk further and in more depth closer to the time (and again once we're actually there). Thank you for your good wishes.

Glad to hear it.

We'd also planned to meet up with another Stateside friend and have dinner, pre-concert... so I'm not sure if any of these things will still be possible. All I know is Boho's health comes first.

Well, there you go. You all can do dinner before concernt. Perhaps friend is willing to take Boho home to the rental and visit more/not visit more. While you and Jester go on to the concert.

I guess my main concern besides her actual health (pain, sickness etc) is not inadvertently saying or doing something "wrong" that would upset her at this time.

It's ok to make mistakes. I'm sure Boho realizes this is all new to ALL of you. And that is mistakes happen, it is not being done on purpose or out of mean spiritedness.

It's also ok for a patient to be upset, be happy, be scared, be excited... basically feel the full range of human emotion.

Rather than worrying about inadvertently saying or doing something "wrong" which might make you anxious about being "perfect" all the time... how about planning how to minimize and how to fix it if DOES happen?

Maybe making a comfort/care box to bring on the trip? Her fav blanket, tea, restful crosswords or other "games" like that? Maybe even just some stress toys and a deck of cards, a sleep mask, etc. Boho could write her top 10 comfort/destress things -- like listening to music for instance. Then there's a "cheat sheet" for you to follow and ask about.

Is the room too bright?
Are you warm enough?
Need a drink/snack?
Want something from the box?

Sometimes patients can articulate, other times they need yes/no prompts because they are too tired to answer "open ended" questions.

Then if an upset happens by accident, you can apologize, and offer to bring out the comfort care box and do some card games (interactive play) or parallel play where she listens to music and you do a crossword but you share space together in the same room companionably, or you bring it for her so it's there and she has time on her own to use it and decompress while you go draw her a bath or give her space or whatever.

This is your partner. You don't have to be walking on eggshells.

Galagirl
 
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You all can do dinner before concernt. Perhaps friend is willing to take Boho home to the rental and visit more/not visit more. While you and Jester go on to the concert.

Maybe making a comfort/care box to bring on the trip?
Then there's a "cheat sheet" for you to follow and ask about.

Is the room too bright?
Are you warm enough?
Need a drink/snack?
Want something from the box?

Sometimes patients can articulate, other times they need yes/no prompts because they are too tired to answer "open ended" questions.

GalaGirl, you're a treasure, I swear. These are exactly the sort of practical tips I needed... that I didn't even know I needed, or wasn't able to articulate earlier. Thank you.


Rather than worrying about inadvertently saying or doing something "wrong" which might make you anxious about being "perfect" all the time... how about planning how to minimize and how to fix it if DOES happen?

This is your partner. You don't have to be walking on eggshells.

Good point, well stated. I guess I just needed to think outside the (care)box.

I'll take all your suggestions on board. I've already talked to Boho about the flu shots you mentioned earlier.

It's not that I'm walking on eggshells exactly - at least, Boho and I are completely at ease and comfortable with each other under "normal" circumstances - it's more that I wondered how (or IF) our ability to relate to each other might change.

Likewise, Jester and I are perfectly natural with each other in person. However, the last time the three of us were together, we screwed it up quite a deal (no pun intended) which was making me a little anxious to do everything "right" this time around.

You've been very helpful.
 
Glad it helps you some.


However, the last time the three of us were together, we screwed it up quite a deal (no pun intended) which was making me a little anxious to do everything "right" this time around.

Well... you all came through it. So if that's the worst to happen? Some bumps on this trip would be ok in comparison. You could even make a joke of it to ease any tensions. Like "Well, we're getting more practice and we're doing better!"

Like not be so anxious about doing "everything right" but more like "getting most things right." 70% is a passing C average in school. You guys are still learning how to be in trio. It doesn't have to be 100% A+ right off the bat, right?

Galagirl
 
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