Can an A partner survive becoming B?

One of the telltale signs of co-dependence is difficulty answering this question - and answering it honestly - and standing by the answer.

What I want?
To have knowledge what I can and can't expect.

For me to know that, I need to know what poly means and what it can do for me. As someone with no knowledge at all about these kinds of relationship, I was hoping for your advice.

It's as simple as that.
 
What I want?
To have knowledge what I can and can't expect.

For me to know that, I need to know what poly means and what it can do for me. As someone with no knowledge at all about these kinds of relationship, I was hoping for your advice.

It's as simple as that.

Surely Gunnar in this and the other threads plenty of us have done just that. We have given our opinion from our (mixed and different) experience. The consensus seems to be from what you gave told us that things are not going to work out. Obviously if there is more information then that view could change.

I never ever mean to be hurtful or offensive and I hope you will take this opinion with that in mind: but perhaps you are not fully engaging with advice you don't want to hear and are "shooting the messenger" I understand that, it may even be classic denial. But you need to engage too with the views that have been expressed and not just ask for more views and advice hoping for a better opinion or outcome.

You need to know what to expect?

Most of us don't seem to feel, from what limited information we have, that your wife is Poly but is cheating on you, with a degree of your acquiescence, using Poly as an excuse to keep you compliant. i expect from what you have said that you will be more and more marginalized. You need to tell us how you feel about this.
 
Poly generally means loving more than one person, romantically, at the same time.

What it can do for you, as a mono person with a poly person, is (optimistically speaking) create a situation whereby you can experience a different way of perceiving your partner's love and happiness; work to overcome any fears/jealousies/envies and consequently be a more stable personality; be able to continue a relationship with your partner rather than parting ways now she had met a new person; enjoy the financial security of a three adult home if this is the living arrangement you pursue; have a friendship with your metamour; develop excellent communication skills so you can develop and manage expectations within your household as a household.

No one here can tell you what to expect except for bumps in the metaphorical road. Poly is hard work - especially as it's beginning - and when new, like for you now, disruptive to an established way of being. It could become a new way of being and feel normal. Or separation may become your new way of being and feel normal.
 
I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear. :eek:

What I want?
To have knowledge what I can and can't expect.

You can expect basic manners, respect, healthy communication, and healthy boundaries in any relationship shape, regardless of the actual model. (Ex: monogamy, Open, swinging, poly, in a V, in a quad, in a wider network, etc)

It is most neatly summed up in this chart:

http://familyconsumersciences.com/wp-content/uploads/Power-Control-Wheels.pdf

I could be wrong, but at this time this relationship seems to fail in shared responsibility.

Shared Responsibility:

  • Making decisions together
  • Splitting or alternating the costs on dates
  • Doing things for each other
  • Going places you both enjoy
  • Giving as much as you receive


Also

  • Accepting change
  • Being willing to compromise (Which is different than compromising oneself or one's values)
  • Working to find solutions that are agreeable to both people (Which sometimes includes "If we cannot be happy together, we have to be willing to be happy apart and part ways as an agreeable solution)
  • Agreeing to disagree sometimes

Your wife is making a unilateral decision for the couple -- like whatever she says goes. You and the kids are just supposed to fall into line.

You sound like you do TOO MUCH for her, including bending yourself into pretzels to avoid breaking up even though she behaves poorly.

You do not enjoy this farm idea. That's not going to places you both enjoy.

You give a lot from the sound of it. I'm not sure what you get back.

I suggest you examine the other pie wedges in the chart and determine how healthy this relationship ACTUALLY is. I sense you have strong feelings for her, and you love her, but I don't think you are loving this behavior she's doing lately. And perhaps your love for her is not letting you see some things clearly as you otherwise might. If it was a close friend in these shoes... what advice would you tell them?

When someone you love and care about is behaving poorly and treating you poorly... All that can feel hard. It's hard to reconcile them saying they love you with the less than loving behavior actions they do toward you. :(


Gunnar said:
I have gotten to know him well during this half a year and he is a very good guy and I consider him a good friend now too.
That's from your other thread. I think if he were a jerk or an asshole it would be easier for you to say "No way!" But because you have friendly feelings toward him, it's hard to reconcile that too. You thought you were signing up for occasional recreational threesomes. You did not bargain on them falling in love and her wanting to have what sounds like two husbands or something and everyone to go live at the Farm he owns.

For me to know that, I need to know what poly means and what it can do for me. As someone with no knowledge at all about these kinds of relationship, I was hoping for your advice.

Healthy, consensual polyamory means the grouping figures out how they want to be together and if they are even compatible. I do not see where this group is deeply compatible because you don't want to be doing poly things.

A primary-secondary model is the easiest to imagine from monogamy. People often think "Like this... just add another person." And it might feel like the compromise place like "I don't want to do it. But if I did then it has to be with me as the top priority so I can still feel safe here."

That is not coming to compromise. That is compromising one's values. Do not do this. Because it just doesn't work that way. There's a lot written about "couple privilege." Labriola writes about primary-secondary model drawbacks here.

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships

However, a major drawback of this model is that outside relationships are not so simple or easy to predict or control. Having a sexual relationship with someone else often leads to becoming emotionally involved and even falling in love, frequently causing a crisis in the primary relationship and even divorce. Initiating a sexual relationship is opening a door to many possibilities, and often secondary relationships grow into something else which does not fit neatly into the confines of this model. Many people who become “secondary” lovers become angry at being subjugated to the couple, and demand equality or end the relationship. For this model to be successful, couples must be very convinced that their relationship is strong enough to weather these ups and downs. Conversely, some couples who start with this model decide eventually to shift to some form of the Multiple Primary Partners model to allow secondary relationships to become equal to the primary couple relationship.


Just because you are up for occasional "no strings" recreational threesomes, doesn't mean you are up for dating/relationship-ing outside the marriage or polyamory or whatever else. Like casual one offs are one thing but "serious" is another.

I get that you want more help, more knowledge, more information about "serious" or "polyamory" an so on. Maybe you want some reassurance that it will turn out ok.

I think all you need to know is already inside your heart. If you don't want to be doing any of that? You just don't. And that is OK! People don't have to be up for EVERYTHING. As for reassurance... nobody knows how this is going to turn out in the end. That part of the story isn't here yet. Right now? Things don't look too good. :(

I think you may be in the bargaining stages of grief. Trying to turn the puzzles pieces every which way to still make it work. Not yet at full acceptance that this isn't likely to work like this. Because there is mourning, deep mourning, at the end of that road. It's gonna get worse before it gets better, I think.

From your posts? You sound like really do not want to be doing this. You also sound like really don't want this relationship to end. Not yet, not like this.

You are stuck between two tough things. I am very sorry for that. :(

Yet you have dependents and your OWN self care to attend to. Do NOT uproot yourself and your children and disturb all your lives to plunk all you in Dude's Farm and be at Dude's mercy at Dude's property.

My suggestion?

Remain where you are. Let wife go. Decide to be separated for a while -- 6 mos, a year.

Whether she regains her senses and comes back and you want to work things out with her?

Or it becomes clearer during the separation that this is best being over and you move from a separation to a divorce? Time will tell.

So give it the time. While separated, I encourage you to seek a counselor for extra support. This whole thing sounds like a mess and airing out on the Internet can only help you but so far. I truly think you would benefit from having extra support in real life.

Galagirl
 
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If this is a real person, a real grieving person who is being treated badly by a woman he trusted, who he has loved a long time, who he planned to spend forever with, who believed her when she said this mess is "polyamory," I'm glad advice is being given. It isn't piercing his armor yet, but others will read his threads and learn things, I hope.

I admit I was highly suspicious this was all a cuckolding porny fantasy and I was offended by the graphic sexual details in the early posts. We get so many trolls here. I still have no way of knowing for sure this is still not a cuckolding fantasy set in Sweden.

But it does now bear resemblance to many other stories we've heard here over the years-- Spouse falls for another, is swept away by NRE, neglects this spouse, goes nuts over new lover, declares what they have going on is that new trendy love style, "polymory," has a fantasy of both their Spouse and Lover together in the same house. Hell, it happened to me. My ex h told me he had a perfect solution-- Sister Wives! She could help with housework and with our 3 kids! Yay!

One more thing to add, which may not be seen by Gunnar but maybe other new members, "complete openness and honesty" in communication does NOT mean reading your partner's texts to their new lover. That is "TMI," too much information. It will only make things worse. And besides, it violates the privacy of the newer person and their sex life. True, some people (men especially) don't mind their sexual prowess being common knowledge to their "metamour" but many people do object to their lover's other partner hearing about their sexual experiences, physical attributes, fantasies, etc.
Openness and honesty does not mean, "I'm giving you a play by play of the great sex I am having with my lover." It invites comparison, usually to the detriment of the established partner.

Openness means not hiding your emotions around dealing with multiple relationships. It means not pretending you're OK, when you're not. It means having respect around time sharing. It means dealing with issues and traumas from your past that are hindering proper behavior in the present.

Gunnar, if you're really here to learn what poly is, the members here have shared tons of information, their own experiences, links. If you need more, rather than telling us about reading your wife's sex texts, go read some other threads. Do a search for "cheating." Also read some books. There are a few good books on poly out there: Opening Up. More Than Two.

If you arm yourself with more information about what poly is and isn't, you'll understand what your wife is doing and proposing is NOT polyamory, since she is treating you with horrible disrespect. Being better informed is a good thing. If you married a NRE junkie, that really sucks. Being a NRE junkie is not being ethically non-monogamous. It means she's a slave to the high of the new attraction hormones in her body right now, dopamine, oxytocin, and others. She can't even SEE you right now, because you do not add to her high (except when she's getting you to read her sex texts and that kind of thing). You bring her down. She doesn't want to be a good wife and stepmother now. She off doing her own thing. She is cheating on you. She is having an affair in plain sight.

You deserve better.
 
If you arm yourself with more information about what poly is and isn't, you'll understand what your wife is doing and proposing is NOT polyamory, since she is treating you with horrible disrespect. Being better informed is a good thing. If you married a NRE junkie, that really sucks. Being a NRE junkie is not being ethically non-monogamous. It means she's a slave to the high of the new attraction hormones in her body right now, dopamine, oxytocin, and others. She can't even SEE you right now, because you do not add to her high (except when she's getting you to read her sex texts and that kind of thing). You bring her down. She doesn't want to be a good wife and stepmother now. She off doing her own thing. She is cheating on you. She is having an affair in plain sight.

You deserve better.

I could not agree more. Its just cheating, with an excuse of Poly, and most cheaters IMO come up with some excuse for it.

I can see there has been some really good advice for you Gunnar, I have been a bit presumptuous in assuming that when you asked what to expect in assuming, in the absence of more information, that you wanted to know what the end-game or outcome would look like and I have jumped to that. I think there has been a fairly unanimous opinion in how people from their experience see it turning out. Sorry, if that's not what you wanted to hear or know about. However I see that Galagirl has given you a really good step by step explanation.

PS. Magdlyn, you were not the only one, I too found the graphic sex detail a bit off putting and thought it perhaps appropriate to a cuckold or fetish site, but not here and definitely too much information.
 
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PS. Magdlyn, you were not the only one, I too found the graphic sex detail a bit off putting and thought it perhaps appropriate to a cuckold or fetish site, but not here, and definitely too much information.

Yeah. I am not a prude by any definition. I am kinky, poly, and i have a high sex drive for my age. I do share some details about my sex life on my blog in our Blog section.

And we are a sex friendly board, but in general we don't share tons of specific sexual details right off the bat. This situation could have been described with way less graphic details. It just seemed so troll-like.

It could have been more like: "My wife has fallen for another guy who is better endowed than me. He also seems to have more sexual skills than me. We have done threeways with him, and she has shared her sexual texts with him, with me, and I understand she is having much better sex with him than she has with me." That would have been clear enough.
 
It could have been more like: "My wife has fallen for another guy who is better endowed than me. He also seems to have more sexual skills than me. We have done threeways with him, and she has shared her sexual texts with him, with me, and I understand she is having much better sex with him than she has with me." That would have been clear enough.
However, somehow these sex details were important to share for Gunar. The tone also made (makes) me doubt, but I'd prefer we don't tell each other how much sharing is too much sharing - that could make people gradually tighten up.
 
However, somehow these sex details were important to share for Gunar. The tone also made (makes) me doubt, but I'd prefer we don't tell each other how much sharing is too much sharing - that could make people gradually tighten up.

I'm sorry I might have shared too much in my very first post but I wanted to paint the picture complete and I believe sex is a factor in most relationships, much like love, humor, intelligence, looks, interests etc.

Also, I was in quite some pain when I wrote it and I simply listed all the things I believe he is better than me at. Now regarding penis size. Sure, it wasn't THAT important to mention but my wife, much like most people, have preferences what she likes with a partner's body. Some men like big boobs. Some like small. Some women prefer broad shoulders etc. My wife has a thing for large penises. That's the reason why I mentioned it.

I realize now that I probably shouldn't.
But it was my very first post in a poly-forum, writing about a topic I had no knowledge of while being in quite a horrible state mentally.

Sorry for this but I'm only human.
 
It could have been more like: "My wife has fallen for another guy who is better endowed than me. He also seems to have more sexual skills than me. We have done threeways with him, and she has shared her sexual texts with him, with me, and I understand she is having much better sex with him than she has with me." That would have been clear enough.

Yes it would. I realize this now.

But the sex thing is only one of the things I'm fighting against. As I said previously, her long time dream is to live on a farm with cows, chickens, sheep etc. She hates living in an apartment. Really HATES it.

And then he enters our lives.. very similar to me as a person but slightly better and more exciting at many important things... and he has a farm with cows, chickens, sheep etc... and the sex thing on top of that.

So the sex thing was ONE issue. Not the whole deal.

But anyway. I thank those of you that have given me time and advice. I now have a slightly better understanding about my situation and I can see things a bit clearer now.

I might show up here again sometimes and tell you what became of all of this but for now I will disappear and try to focus on solving the situation with MY best interest in mind too.

Thanks... and bye for now.
 
However, somehow these sex details were important to share for Gunnar. The tone also made (makes) me doubt, but I'd prefer we don't tell each other how much sharing is too much sharing - that could make people gradually tighten up.

You may prefer "we" dont tell each other how much sharing is too much. I am not telling anyone how much to share. I am saying how the graphic details came across as troll erotica, to me and to others. No one likes to be punked by a troll. Actions have consequences. And reactions.

Unlike what Gunnar believes, I am a kind person. A caring empathetic person. However, I have dignity and I don't suffer fools gladly. I care about this place and its members. I've been here for many years. I know our mods deal with tons of spam, that's bad enough. I am wary of trolls coming and cluttering up the place when the focus should be on real people needing real help.


However, despite not taking in the first advice he got, and threatening to flounce, and then coming back and starting another unnecessary thread (whether he is real or not), Gunnar seems to be aware of the uncomfortable first impression he made on many of us, so perhaps we can move on.

Edit, and he left again while I was posting! Oh well, hasta la vista.
 
Unlike what Gunnar believes, I am a kind person. A caring empathetic person. However, I have dignity and I don't suffer fools gladly. I care about this place and its members.

No need to explain.

Here's a hug.( ) .
X
 
I might show up here again sometimes and tell you what became of all of this but for now I will disappear and try to focus on solving the situation with MY best interest in mind too.

Thanks... and bye for now.

Sort of upset you've decided to publicly quit agan, without ever engaging with the advice you asked for. You did not engage with any responses in this thread.

You publicly criticised this community for not helping you.

I, and others probably spent hours thinking this over. Yesterday I spent all day pushing a lawnmower (gardening for my clients) all the time thinking about your situation and the best advice I could give. (Maybe I could have spent that energy thinking about my daughter upcoming wedding or my own issues). I wrote and re-wrote that advice yesterday night and eventually posted it. Happy for people to say it was rubbish but it was my best shot. Other people wrote longer (and better) advice. But now you dismiss us again with a "Dear John" message. It's almost as if you were harvesting our opinions for an article or research which you assured us you were not doing.

Not impressed and a bit hurt.

Neil
 
Sort of upset you've decided to publicly quit agan, without ever engaging with the advice you asked for. You did not engage with any responses in this thread.

I choose to leave because the advice given to me has given me answers to many of my questions and I don't think digging any deeper or asking follow up questions would be of any use. Especially not since some of you also seem annoyed by the fact I started another thread in the hopes that the new one could be a "restart" without the bad vibes in the first thread.

(I did send a request to admin to delete the first thread but it was ignored)

It seems that whatever I do here some of you simply believe I do wrong. If I write anything I get criticized and even called a troll. If I say I won't write anything more I get criticized for being ungrateful. Some of you seem to simple have decided you don't like me and it doesn't matter what I do.

However, those of you that have spent time and thoughts into your replies trying to help me instead of pushing me down, I am grateful to you all and trust me: I've read every word you have written... several times now.

And trust me this too: Everything I have written about my situation has been the truth. You are welcome to step into my shoes for a day if you like ;-)

No hard feelings from me.
Thanks and bye for now (again)
 
But the sex thing is only one of the things I'm fighting against. As I said previously, her long time dream is to live on a farm with cows, chickens, sheep etc. She hates living in an apartment. Really HATES it.

Boy do we understand that! Town is best seen in your rear-view mirror.

I want to stay away from the other aspects of this. Others have covered it.

Our view of sex is dependent on the style of life a person is living. Someone growing up on the farm who longs for an erudite, sophisticated fashion plate is going to swoon at what we called girly-boys on the farm. You can tell the girls that don't belong on a farm, and those that do.

We live in a remote area on the border of designated wilderness. It's pretty brutal living, you hear people talk about always wanting to live this way but it is mostly baloney. They'd be doing it right now if that was true.

But if you have the right person, if you both share the dream it is awesome. Once you've seen it, once it gets into your blood, a marriage is not going to stand in the way of obtaining it.
 
i think the first mistake here was that they labeled the relationships as “a” and “b” to begin with.

bingo!

(funny, the software of this site won't allow even one all-cap word.)
 
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After the OP I've skimmed through this thread so all I'll say is:

problem with this relationship is that she wants a primary and a secondary male partners. And by the sound of it the so-called original primary partner is not the love of her life anymore.

THAT is wrong and isn't poly. That is cuckold.
Poly is when she wants both of you equally and both men accept that threeway relationship.

So basically you "fear" that he screws her better than you in bed, or he is more physically attractive than you or/and he is emotionally closer with her than you. If you accept that then you are a cuck and eventually you'll probably lose her to him.


If she really wants a proper and loving three-way relationship then she has to treat both of her men equally by trying to make sure they're both happy. Its literally as simple as that.
 
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