What's reasonable for me to expect?

If you feel that your partner doesn't give your relationship the public acknowledgement it deserves, dump her. Just don't try and control how she acknowledges your relationship, let her do what she thinks is best then you decide how her action makes you feel and respond accordingly.
I said it here.
 
Dumping her is too severe. And you suggest it too cavalierly. No, Im not just going to end a relationship to test someone.
 
Who mentioned doing it as a test?

Dude, for whatever reason, she is reluctant to acknowledge the depth of her relationship with you to other people. That makes you unhappy. You've told her that and she didn't feel that it is something that she needs to address immediately and nor has she thought to reassure you about where she is in the process of acknowledging your relationship to this new person. If my partner felt our relationship had been invalidated by something I did, or hadn't done, and it was something as easily fixed as this, I would be letting him know how I intended to deal with the situation and would make sure that he is updated of the process if he can't be there to see it himself. She has chosen to leave you in the dark about what exactly is going on now, so you have no idea whether she has spoken to him or not. It is not your responsibility, right or hopefully your desire to be babysitting her other relationships thus you chasing her for answers is not a viable option.

She knows you have a problem with the way she has handled things, and she is choosing to not be an active part of the solution. She is choosing to leave you feeling vague and insecure about this situation. She is choosing to behave in a way that makes you feel as though your relationship is invalidated and your place in her life dispensable. Only you can choose what to do in response to that.

My answer will always be to remove yourself from whatever situation is making you unhappy, once it's clear it cannot be fixed. And this cannot be fixed unless she takes some onus for the way she has behaved.

Or, you know, just stick around until she does find someone to swap you for, because in all honesty, it really sounds like she is doing just that.
 
No, it doesnt. She's told me that I'll never be replaced;and I know I occupy a special place in her heart. Shes made me a part of her family during the holidays and the rest of the year to an extent that we are de facto committed.

She said she will tell him. What more do you want? Forcing her to tell him on my schedule sure sounds like babysitting to me.

Shes taking the "when its appropriate" point of view. When shes dating someone casually, all they need know is that she dates other people. Should a relationship progress further, she'll explain that when it does.

Would I have preferred she have toldthe guy more by this point? Of course. But we discussed her telling him. She agreed she would. Thats change. I just need to let things breathe for a bit.
 
What more do you want?

What I would want if I were you was some indication that she acknowledges how I felt and some indication through her actions that she is trying to reasonably rectify the situation. That would tell me that she doesn't want to do things that make me or our relationship feel invalidated and if something she did unintentionally made me feel that way, she would see rectifying it as a priority, not something to get arounf to at soem point in the future.

She's taking the "when its appropriate" point of view. When shes dating someone casually, all they need know is that she dates other people. Should a relationship progress further, she'll explain that when it does.

That's all very well but what does it actually mean? Does it mean that she will directly lie to someone she is casually dating about the extent of her entanglement with you, or she just won't volunteer that she has quite a highly entangled existing relationship?

Yes, I absolutely believe there is some onus on the other person to ask the people they date about their other relationships if it is important to them, but she also has to think about how much omission of the truth it takes before any consent that other person gives to date or have sex with her is compromised by them not knowing the full truth about her other relationships. That's assuming she is an ethical and conscientious person who wouldn't want someone to consent to something under false allusions. It isn't as simple as her being able to decide at what point they have the right to know who else sticks their dick in her or who else she is planning a future with. they have the right to be able to decline to date or sleep with someone who is effectively in a primary style relationship with someone else (which you are if you share the things you claim you do.

Dude, seriously, do what you want but to me, it really seems like she thinks this is a good thing for now, but she will trade it for something "real" when that comes along. Maybe she is just young or whatever, but it seems like she knows exactly what she is doing to me, and from your responses, it sounds like she is doing it very well indeed.
 
How do I do that?

You ask her to do inclusive, considerate behaviors. You spell it out so she knows what behaviors you find inclusive and considerate. Not just for her to TALK to you and SAY inclusive/considerate words, but to DO inclusive, considerate action behaviors.

She either will do them or not. But you have ASKED and put it out there.

I cannot tell where you are at in your process at this time and what you are willing/able to take on board or not.

Could you be willing to bullet list the remaining things you need feedback on at this point in time?

Because the original post has been covered. People gave you feedback, you have decided "wait and see" as you course of action.
Of course I'd like to have sex more than 2-3 times a month, but is that truly an indicator that I'm being used? Honestly, I'd like some perspective on that.

At this time, you do not seem willing to consider that (loving words) and (sex with you) could be transactional for her and perhaps she enjoys you for the stuff you provide and not so much you for you. The whole sex bit in this post -- that's all "damsel in distress" to me. It's a turn off to me. If that stuff turns you on, that is your biz.

I note she tells you her medical condition limits her ability to share sex with you while also she tells you it is easier for her to share sex with people she does not love.

That makes no sense. A physical medical condition would limit her ability to share sex with anyone, not just you. If her sex share time is limited and she rather spend it on people she doesn't love? That's her behavior. Her behavior meets your needs or not. Right now? Not. You are unhappy with your frequency of sex. If you desire more sex in your life, and this the normal frequency you can expect with her? You could think about moving on to another partner. Or giving up the want for more sex. Or masturbate more. Or something else. Up to you how you want to address your sex needs. She cannot be forced to share sex.

To ask her for her ETA is not babysitting. It is looking out for YOU so you aren't left hanging for a decade. It doesn't have to be forced. You can ASK.

A: Could you be willing to tell your potential I exist?
B: Yes
A: Could you be willing to give me an ETA on that so I can know when to expect a check in with you?
B: Between X and Y weeks. If sooner than Y, I will check in with you. If Y weeks pass, and I do not check in, YOU check in with me and I will give you a status update.
A: Fair enough. We're good to go.

Then you wait amd let her own it. She delivers or not within her timeframe.

At this time you seem unwilling to ask her for an ETA. So don't.

If you feel like soul searching -- you could ask yourself

  • What makes it hard in your willingness?
  • What makes it hard in your ability?
  • Is it something she does in her behavior that makes her hard to approach for conversation?
  • Do you fear something will happen if you initiate conversation? What?

If you don't feel like it at this time? Don't.

I realize that I'm terrible at being alone and am giving more than I should to keep things going, but even the thought of being without her makes me sad.

If being in this relationship serves you because it keeps sadness at bay, and you are not willing to experience sadness at this time?
You are willing to pay the price of admission -- both pros and cons (providing all this stuff for all these people, receive some loving words, receive some "family" vibe, unsatisfying sex life, etc) -- to avoid processing sadness? That is your biz.

I rather process single load sadness, than (whatever the side trip costs emotionally) and then back to the (original sadness). Double load is more work to me.

You are you. You choose how you want to navigate through this recent post-divorce period of your life.

You have planned "wait and see" as your next course of action. Unless you want to revisit a convo with her to modify the "wait and see" with an ETA, then I guess you just "wait and see" indefinitely until something moves you to do something else.

There really isn't any other feedback people can offer you. You have set your course.

Namaste,
Galagirl
 
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He doesn't want to ask her because he is reluctant to do anything that will burst the bubble. He isn't stupid, he knows if she consistently dismisses him in this way, this probably isn't the relationship he wants to believe it is. Acknowledging that will be hard.
 
Wow. Lots of great feedback. I'm absorbing.

What I would want if I were you was some indication that she acknowledges how I felt and some indication through her actions that she is trying to reasonably rectify the situation. That would tell me that she doesn't want to do things that make me or our relationship feel invalidated and if something she did unintentionally made me feel that way, she would see rectifying it as a priority, not something to get around to at soem point in the future.

  1. I think she is trying to reasonably rectify the situation. Just in her own time.
  2. I do agree that it should be a priority not something just to get around to.

That's all very well but what does it actually mean? Does it mean that she will directly lie to someone she is casually dating about the extent of her entanglement with you, or she just won't volunteer that she has quite a highly entangled existing relationship?

  1. It means omission until the time is right. Not direct lying.



Yes, I absolutely believe there is some onus on the other person to ask the people they date about their other relationships if it is important to them, but she also has to think about how much omission of the truth it takes before any consent that other person gives to date or have sex with her is compromised by them not knowing the full truth about her other relationships. That's assuming she is an ethical and conscientious person who wouldn't want someone to consent to something under false allusions. It isn't as simple as her being able to decide at what point they have the right to know who else sticks their dick in her or who else she is planning a future with. they have the right to be able to decline to date or sleep with someone who is effectively in a primary style relationship with someone else (which you are if you share the things you claim you do.


  1. She is ethical and conscientious. Her whole family is super PC about human rights, ethics, and interpersonal relations.
  2. I don't think she would want to enter into a v or a full threesome relationship in the first place, though she's given one mixed signal text to this dude.
  3. If she was going to do that anyway, she would be going against her pledge to me that I would "never be replaced." Perhaps that's a foolish belief by me, but there you are.
  4. I believe she would tell him/them about me as she has said she would and attempt to split her time with them as a unit and me as another unit. Should it be up to her to incorporate us or keep us separate? Opinions differ.

Dude, seriously, do what you want but to me, it really seems like she thinks this is a good thing for now, but she will trade it for something "real" when that comes along. Maybe she is just young or whatever, but it seems like she knows exactly what she is doing to me, and from your responses, it sounds like she is doing it very well indeed.

  1. I've always had a fear of what you're saying. I just think that with how deep I am into her family structure, along with how the unique way I ease her anxiety issues and the long-term plans we've made, that she's not going to just drop me.




You ask her to do inclusive, considerate behaviors. You spell it out so she knows what behaviors you find inclusive and considerate. Not just for her to TALK to you and SAY inclusive/considerate words, but to DO inclusive, considerate action behaviors.

I have asked her to tell the guy and she's said she would. I've learned that she hasn't really talked to him much...especially not about relationship planning. It's totally casual atm and I wouldn't expect such a discussion to come right out of the blue.



Could you be willing to bullet list the remaining things you need feedback on at this point in time?


These aren't new needs, but on-going ones.
  1. honesty
  2. acknowledgement by her of our relationship at a reasonable time to new/existing people
  3. consistency of actions and the meanings behind those actions (i.e. don't act more intimate than you are if you don't mean it)


At this time, you do not seem willing to consider that (loving words) and (sex with you) could be transactional for her and perhaps she enjoys you for the stuff you provide and not so much you for you. The whole sex bit in this post -- that's all "damsel in distress" to me. It's a turn off to me. If that stuff turns you on, that is your biz.

If I was to flat-out call her on being mercenary, the first thing she would say is that she never required me to buy her one single thing. And that's the truth of the situation. She's been with me when I've been through cash-poor periods and puts up with my lackluster funds at the moment.

Yes, I can admit that things are slightly transactional, but the whole relationship doesn't hinge upon it by any means.



I note she tells you her medical condition limits her ability to share sex with you while also she tells you it is easier for her to share sex with people she does not love.

That makes no sense. A physical medical condition would limit her ability to share sex with anyone, not just you. If her sex share time is limited and she rather spend it on people she doesn't love? That's her behavior. Her behavior meets your needs or not. Right now? Not.

It does limit everyone and not just me. You're assuming she only uses it against me alone. She goes out on dates and doesn't have sex because of her condition. There's no misapplication at all.

Yes, I'd like more sex and we need to come up with a more healthy way of discussing that. Just this morning she initiated sex out of the blue and in a very entertaining way. We both got off multiple times (her multiple, multiple times) and had a lot of fun with it. Now if that would just increase in frequency, I'd be a bit happier.

You are unhappy with your frequency of sex. If you desire more sex in your life, and this the normal frequency you can expect with her? You could think about moving on to another partner. Or giving up the want for more sex. Or masturbate more. Or something else. Up to you how you want to address your sex needs. She cannot be forced to share sex.

I agree. No one should be forced into sex. That's servitude. I do need to find more partners, but the problem is that the dating pool where I am COMPLETELY sucks. Beyond terrible. That's part of the reason why I'm a bit stuck on her. She's the Hope diamond in a quarry of rubble.

To ask her for her ETA is not babysitting. It is looking out for YOU so you aren't left hanging for a decade. It doesn't have to be forced. You can ASK.

A: Could you be willing to tell your potential I exist?
B: Yes
A: Could you be willing to give me an ETA on that so I can know when to expect a check in with you?
B: Between X and Y weeks. If sooner than Y, I will check in with you. If Y weeks pass, and I do not check in, YOU check in with me and I will give you a status update.
A: Fair enough. We're good to go.

Then you wait amd let her own it. She delivers or not within her timeframe.

At this time you seem unwilling to ask her for an ETA. So don't.

I'll ask for that ETA when the time is right. They've moved to a really, really casual (her not hardly texting him at all really) situation. As a result, I don't feel the pressure for her to go to great lengths explaining something that doesnt factor into how they're interacting.


If you feel like soul searching -- you could ask yourself

  • What makes it hard in your willingness?
  • What makes it hard in your ability?
  • Is it something she does in her behavior that makes her hard to approach for conversation?
  • Do you fear something will happen if you initiate conversation? What?

If you don't feel like it at this time? Don't.

  1. I hate being alone and don't want to fuck up the status quo.
  2. She can be hard to approach to talk about relationship stuff sometimes. She takes the posture that almost any talking about the relationship is "overtalking" the whole thing. She's not like that all the time, about half the time. She also feels like since we don't have a relationship or any commitment that it's superflous. I realize, as an older, more experienced person, that that's immature and I push that boundary.
  3. I'll initate the "what should be our rule for acknowledging me" conversation when the time feels right. I won't avoid it.

I rather process single load sadness, than (whatever the side trip costs emotionally) and then back to the (original sadness). Double load is more work to me.

You are you. You choose how you want to navigate through this recent post-divorce period of your life.

You have planned "wait and see" as your next course of action. Unless you want to revisit a convo with her to modify the "wait and see" with an ETA, then I guess you just "wait and see" indefinitely until something moves you to do something else.

Thank you for your perspective, Galagirl. It really helps. Seriously. Much appreciated.
 
Addendum because the previous post was too long:


If being in this relationship serves you because it keeps sadness at bay, and you are not willing to experience sadness at this time?
You are willing to pay the price of admission -- both pros and cons (providing all this stuff for all these people, receive some loving words, receive some "family" vibe, unsatisfying sex life, etc) -- to avoid processing sadness? Fair enough. That is your biz.

Yep. That's where I'm at. The good far, far outweighs the bad. And most relationships take work. I'd rather have her than my ex-wife for a billion reasons. She's more mature than my 40 yr old wife ever was. And the ex handled millions of dollars on a daily basis.


He doesn't want to ask her because he is reluctant to do anything that will burst the bubble. He isn't stupid, he knows if she consistently dismisses him in this way, this probably isn't the relationship he wants to believe it is. Acknowledging that will be hard.

I won't say that there isn't some naivety on my part, and even some treading water to keep the status quo, but that won't last forever...and it is in service of growing together, growing the relationship, and giving her time to work somethings out on her own...as well as keep my fantasy in tact ;)

Thank you as well, london.
 
Dude she has told you are are a FWB. She isn't looking for a real relationship with you. FWB comes with boundries for it to work properly.

#1 Don’t fall in love. This is the biggest rule and the easiest one to remember. Don’t fall in love. But then again, this is also the hardest one to follow.

#2 Have emotional maturity. Understand what kind of a relationship you’re getting into right from the start.. Be satisfied with a satisfying ending.

#3 Set ground rules.

#4 Don’t get clingy for attention. She isn’t your lover. Stop playing house.

#5 Don’t be overenthusiastic. You are not her boyfriend. She has said she doesn't do relationships. STOP TREATING HER LIKE YOUR GIRLFRIEND SINCE SHE ISN"T>

#6 Don’t go on a date. You may be intimate with each other, but that’s no excuse to see each other in any place other than a bed. You’ll ruin the relationship.



Yes she is lying to the other person. She is LYING AND BEING DISHONEST by ommission. She is still misleading and decieving someone.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.
 
I did not mean for you to list your needs in your relationship. I meant for you to list what you want other people to give feedback on -- if there's still anything else you wanted feedback on. Because I think the original post question was covered.

Your needs in relationship with her are your needs in relationship with her. The only two who can help to meet your needs in this relationship are you and your partner. The things you list are fair enough. People can need those things in a relationship.

Are you helping to meet those needs? For example, I do not see how you are helping to meet your need for (honesty) in relationships when you choose to continue to date someone who you know does lies of omission sometimes. Your behavior does not seem to support that need.

Could you explain how that works? Is your expectation that you don't have to help meet your own needs and hold up your side of the stick? Only she does it?

Or do you value (not being alone) higher than (honesty)? If so, fair enough. You value what you value in the order you prefer at this time.

But could call it what it is then. Replace (honesty) with with (not being alone) in your list of top 3 needs at this time.

It means omission until the time is right. Not direct lying.

So you are aware that she sometimes does lies of omission.

It does limit everyone and not just me. You're assuming she only uses it against me alone. She goes out on dates and doesn't have sex because of her condition. There's no misapplication at all.

You take it on faith that she doesn't do lies of omission to you when she tells you about her dates. (You are not present to observe and know from your direct experience. )

You seem to recognize that you put in more than you get back in this relationship.

You seem to recognize you are mostly in this relationship because you can't find anyone better to date in your area, and you don't like being alone. That doesn't make her "a Hope diamond." It simply makes her "better than anyone else around right now." Fair enough.

But could call it what it is straight up.

Could guard against painting it in grander colors than what it is. Could be more honest with yourself.

Galagirl
 
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You seem to recognize you are mostly in this relationship because you can't find anyone better to date in your area, and you don't like being alone. That doesn't make her "a Hope diamond." It simply makes her "better than anyone else around right now."

Maybe it does since the Hope diamond carries a curse.
 
I do need to find more partners, but the problem is that the dating pool where I am COMPLETELY sucks. Beyond terrible. That's part of the reason why I'm a bit stuck on her. She's the Hope diamond in a quarry of rubble.

I hate being alone and don't want to fuck up the status quo.


I really feel sad for you.

As this thread has gone on it's becoming clearer that you are mentally constructing a relationship with somebody who sees you as a FWB.

That anybody would choose to live like that rather than be free from a relationship makes me feel sad. It seems like such a diminished life to me. :(

I hope things improve for you soon.
 
A lot of you seem to be ignoring all the facts I give you about how we are more than fwb. The meaningful connection with her family. The emotional rapport we have. Our special love language.

And no, I'm not just with her because the dating pool sucks. She's amazing in a billion different ways. But the combination of my money woes and my dread of trolling a poor dating selection are factors in my not dating someone else besides her.

I have a female friend nearby that I used to be fwb with. We fell out of touch, but now see each other from time to time. If I she offered to jump back in my rotation I'd be glad to date/have sex with her again. Despite the fact that she's been sniffing around my door (my girl and I both think she's hot for me from what's been going on), she has a boyfriend and only wants to be monogamous. Just saying though, I would be poly if another great situation fell in my lap.

As for saying that she's committing a lie by omission, I'll agree that she's done that. But with other people she's dated for more than 2 or 3 dates, she's explained about me. Hell, one guy even came to my house and hung out for 10-15 minutes. We greeted each other and talked for a brief moment. He knew that she and I dated and that she stayed over with me a lot. He's seen me dropping her off on more than one occasion for their dates. So she has a good track record.

Gala, I do need to be honest with myself about the reality of the situation. If I have rose-colored glasses on, it's because things have just been so great for a long time. Will they change? Life always does.

The crux of my dilemma is that she gives me conflicting signals. She says "Don't call this a relationship." or "I live with my parents" or "It's unrealistic to think that we'll be together forever."...meanwhile she does live with me for months at a time...and she tells me she loves me...and does sweet little girlfriend things for me...she introduces me as her boyfriend once in awhile...and we have so many deep and tender moments.

I took a moment yesterday to clarify things with her a bit. She told me she loved me and I asked her what that meant to her. Her response was meaningful. I responded with a question "So that means that we're more than just friends with benefits. It means that we have a much deeper connection, right?" And she agreed cheerily.

I'm happy at the moment. I guess I'm just a sucker.
 
The crux of my dilemma is that she gives me conflicting signals. She says "Don't call this a relationship." or "I live with my parents" or "It's unrealistic to think that we'll be together forever."...meanwhile she does live with me for months at a time...and she tells me she loves me...and does sweet little girlfriend things for me...she introduces me as her boyfriend once in awhile...and we have so many deep and tender moments.

Where is conflict in signals in there? :confused:

  • You have tender moments with her, etc
  • she says not to expect it to last forever, etc.

I do not see how this is mixed messages. Maybe a message you don't like hearing, but not mixed message.

Gala, I do need to be honest with myself about the reality of the situation. If I have rose-colored glasses on, it's because things have just been so great for a long time. Will they change? Life always does.

So be honest with yourself.

As for the rest, you have decided to wait and see. So... wait and see. It's ok to be happy in the meanwhile.

Galagirl
 
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Dude she has told you are are a FWB. She isn't looking for a real relationship with you. FWB comes with boundries for it to work properly.

#1 Don’t fall in love. This is the biggest rule and the easiest one to remember. Don’t fall in love. But then again, this is also the hardest one to follow.

#2 Have emotional maturity. Understand what kind of a relationship you’re getting into right from the start.. Be satisfied with a satisfying ending.

#3 Set ground rules.

#4 Don’t get clingy for attention. She isn’t your lover. Stop playing house.

#5 Don’t be overenthusiastic. You are not her boyfriend. She has said she doesn't do relationships. STOP TREATING HER LIKE YOUR GIRLFRIEND SINCE SHE ISN"T>

#6 Don’t go on a date. You may be intimate with each other, but that’s no excuse to see each other in any place other than a bed. You’ll ruin the relationship.

Where did you come up with these rules? Except for "have emotional maturity" and "don't get clingy," which should apply to all relationships, most of what you wrote sounds more like Fuck Buddy than FWB. I can love a FWB, I love my friends. I wouldn't engage in a FWB situation if that was a rule! And as far as I'm concerned, having a friend I can fuck is a very real relationship!
 
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Where did you come up with these rules? Except for "have emotional maturity" and "don't get clingy," which should apply to all relationships, most of what you wrote sounds more like Fuck Buddy than FWB. I can love a FWB, I love my friends. I wouldn't engage in a FWB situation if that was a rule! And as far as I'm concerned, having a friend I can fuck is a very real relationship!

I agree with nycindie - these rules (except #2 and #4 - which are just general good sense for anyone) sound like like a "booty call" rather than a friend.

:eek: Maybe this is why a lot of folks don't think having FWBs "qualifies" as poly...if they are focused on the "benefits" rather than the "friends" part.

Maybe it's because I am INTJ, but I get almost NRE-giddy when I find someone "friend-worthy" - regardless of whether we have sex. It's MUCH easier to find someone that I would have sex with for fun (NSA) - but I wouldn't consider them a FWB.

JaneQ
 
Awhile back I was tested as an INTP, but now I've moved more to ENTJ.

Just thought I'd check back in and tell y'all what's been happening. I should say as an introduction, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Not that your interpretation of events is wrong or defend my behavior.

As for the text contact that I initially posted about, their meeting is still on I suppose, but they hardly text at all. After re-discussing the situation she has been very clear that she doesn't want to be a hinge or in a full group relationship. If he rolls through town and they do end up meeting, I have no problems with that as it's her decision and just like any other dates. That doesn't mean she's not going to be poly and go on dates in the future, but as for my initial fear of her jumping into some new group, that has subsided.

As a weird turn of events, I had a guy and his girlfriend rent a room from me recently that has given me some insight into my behavior. She's traveling out of state for a month while they take a break. The poor guy went absolutely nuts and has become one of the most pathetic sights I've ever seen. As we watched this unravel, it was the opportunity for my girl and I to discuss our own habits. Not texting for a few hours or even a day or so isn't the end of the world to us, as it has been for this guy. I don't want to be this guy.

Over the last month she hasn't had any dates whatsoever and we've gotten really emotional and close. Sure, she's continued to text some romantic interests, but it's reduced by a drastic percentage. She's worked through a lot of her barriers regarding commitment and is relaxing into the relationship I feel.

I'm not so naive as to think that she's stopped being poly or that I don't have some uncomfortable times ahead when she does have a date. This time, however, I think I'm going to be better equipped to deal with things.

Anyway, thanks for listening. Everyone's perspective has helped.
 
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