I'm in over my head.

I heard what she said..I just don't agree with it. But again it comes down to thriving as an individual or just living.

Although it feels wrong to get back to this issue after such a delightful foray into the world of liquids, I have to suggest Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs as one model some folks might find useful when trying to conceptualize 'needs'.

Myself, I agree with Mono; I prefer to want the things I want versus wanting the things I need. In my understanding, using the word 'need' might masquerade some dependency and addiction issues I have, whereas realizing that I need very little but want a lot to me is about realizing our own power in choosing and acting on our choices.
 
Soooo...

...Went out tonight with T while she met with her first online Date/ meet up. ie. they met online. I was the secret chaperon ensuring T was safe. As the night progressed I moved to a different area of the pub/bar because well, I'm just not that much of a voyeur and watching my wife on a date was pretty....odd. (I went with T more as a security blanket for her as she hasn't been on a blind date in over 20 yrs)

As it worked out he was a nice guy, but there wasn't any chemistry with him to go further. You could tell he was disappointed, but he took it well and that was that.

So Jealousy....I found myself experiencing jealousy not at T meeting with a potential BF but at not being the guy who was with her having a great night! Which was also one of the reasons I moved out of line of sight. Good news was that a great band was playing in a different part of the pub and I spent my night sipping Ginger ale and grooving to the music.

I'm trying. I swear I am, but I have no.....framework or experience to draw on as to what's Ok here and I found as the night wore on I started to feel like I did on day one. I stopped going down that road as soon as I caught myself, but it took a while to get re purposed.

I think I'm a good man, I think I'm doing what's right and necessary to make it easier for us both, but I just don't have the context to know for certain.

I've stopped running away from anything my fears, jealousy, feeling sorry for myself, all of it. I'm grateful to be awake again, to feel alive and have purpose/desire once more for my life, but to tell you the truth, I'm not really having fun with this.

So much for me to learn yet. Hope I get there soon.

P.S. I apologize for Hijacking my thread back from the earlier hijack. I did however learn that beer and lube may be more fun then I might have thought, so thank you for that.
 
So Jealousy....I found myself experiencing jealousy not at T meeting with a potential BF but at not being the guy who was with her having a great night! Which was also one of the reasons I moved out of line of sight. Good news was that a great band was playing in a different part of the pub and I spent my night sipping Ginger ale and grooving to the music.

I'm trying. I swear I am, but I have no.....framework or experience to draw on as to what's Ok here and I found as the night wore on I started to feel like I did on day one. I stopped going down that road as soon as I caught myself, but it took a while to get re purposed.

I think I'm a good man, I think I'm doing what's right and necessary to make it easier for us both, but I just don't have the context to know for certain.

I've stopped running away from anything my fears, jealousy, feeling sorry for myself, all of it. I'm grateful to be awake again, to feel alive and have purpose/desire once more for my life, but to tell you the truth, I'm not really having fun with this.
Sounds like it was a good night...even from a learning perspective. Glad it worked out well for you, and that you've started finding ways to catch yourself from going down the dark paths of your mind. You seem to be getting the coping mechanisms down fine, so I'm not going to bother suggesting new ones if you have stuff that's working for you.

Question time:

Why do you feel a need to be 'the one' having a great night with T? If she went out for girls night with her friends, and has a great night carrying on with them, do you feel jealousy when that happens? If you're at a party and she gets talking to an old friend, girl folk, or new friend, does that cause jealousy? If it's YeHaw week and she has an out of body experience on the Gravitron while you're eating mini-donuts, does that cause jealousy?

I'm not sure I understand the part about how working through your shit somehow casts doubt on being a good man. Personal ethics are personal...if you need external validation, is it really personal anymore? I guess the question here is what do you think you're doing that might be 'wrong', and why would it be 'wrong'?

Finally, if you don't think you're having fun, and it seems like a lot of work, despite all the advantages that you mentioned above...what would be? What do you think it should look like? What would be 'fun'? How do you envision that, and how is it different than what happened last night?


P.S. I apologize for Hijacking my thread back from the earlier hijack. I did however learn that beer and lube may be more fun then I might have thought, so thank you for that.
You can't really hijack your own thread...so don't apologize...but I'm glad the combination worked out for you. :D
 
It sounds like there is some self confidence stuff going on for you... are you wondering if your wife has lost interest in you? That you are the steady guy here for the long haul and not the fun new guy? Or is your jealousy towards him about the fact that you wish you could date again and have that exhilarating moment of meeting someone new?
 
You folks ask tough questions, you won't let me slide at all here will you?

II wrote: Question time:
Why do you feel a need to be 'the one' having a great night with T? If she went out for girls night with her friends, and has a great night carrying on with them, do you feel jealousy when that happens? If you're at a party and she gets talking to an old friend, girl folk, or new friend, does that cause jealousy? If it's YeHaw week and she has an out of body experience on the Gravitron while you're eating mini-donuts, does that cause jealousy?


You're absolutely right in that if T was out with friends I'd be fine with it. But as soon as she's out with a guy?Not so much, and that's what's bothering me here, it's a guy. Not a girl. Why can't T be Bi and have a girlfriend? that'd be so much easier to deal with. (Ok, that's my fantasy voice taking over, I'm back now.)

Where was I? Right The guy thing. Why does that bother me? Why do I treat this differently? Why do I start feeling jealous of ts activities because she's with a penile life support system instead of another woman?.......dunno. Just do. And I'd like not to.

II wrote: I guess the question here is what do you think you're doing that might be 'wrong', and why would it be 'wrong'?


Hmmmmm what I"m trying to say here is that I don't know what I should be doing here II. How much more do I have to do? When this got started I signed on here, and got busy.I've worked to overcome any of my old emotional/mental shit that might get in the way of Ts journey and continue to do so. I've paid attention to everything you and the others have said and have done what I can to implement your suggestions. I've helped screen the candidates online, provided security on her date, and continue to be open to this new Idea called Poly.

But it seems that everyday I come up against or experience something I don't understand. Am I whining? Maybe. I just wish I had something to ground me when I start feeling uneasy or afraid. This board is all I have right now, You folks are it.

II wrote:Finally, if you don't think you're having fun, and it seems like a lot of work, despite all the advantages that you mentioned above...what would be? What do you think it should look like? What would be 'fun'? How do you envision that, and how is it different than what happened last night?

This, my friend is something I have to think about, you're not cutting me any slack here, are you?

redpepper wrote:It sounds like there is some self confidence stuff going on for you... are you wondering if your wife has lost interest in you? That you are the steady guy here for the long haul and not the fun new guy? Or is your jealousy towards him about the fact that you wish you could date again and have that exhilarating moment of meeting someone new?


Hmmmmmm, I wanted to be the guy last night who was having a great time with my wife, not sitting by myself watching her have a good time. the last part of your reply makes me uncomfortable, very much so. What am I really jealous of here? Fuck me, now I have something else to look at.

Sigh, why couldn't T just want a puppy?
 
This...

Why do I start feeling jealous of ts activities because she's with a penile life support system instead of another woman?

And this...

Sigh, why couldn't T just want a puppy?

...seriously made me LOL.

You're a pretty cool guy, Freetime, and are working really hard to overcome some difficult issues so your wife can be happy.

Now that's love, IMO. I applaud you, sir.
 
And whoa, look out -- bi polys bring a whole different dimension to the mix, there is still jealousy there, I've seen it here on the forum. You may think it's all about the penis, but you'd be surprised!

It's odd -- my husband has no problem with the other penis*, it's the emotional intimacy that shakes him to the core. Incidentally -- our latest BIG conflict stemmed from my first "date" with the bf, even though we'd been sleeping with each other (husband approved) for 5 months! He saw the date as "wrangling" (if you search "cowboys" on here you'll see what I mean) -- but that's not what it was at all. I said if we are friends with benefits, it can't just be the benefits! Going out for a beer together was the FRIEND part. Freaked the hubby out. He panicked that the bf was "wooing" me. We are working on some new arrangements that he will feel more comfortable with. Because the last thing the bf wants is to cause conflict in our marriage. He really loves and respects my husband. Sometimes I fear he loves him more than me! Actually, THAT is a terrific feeling. I feel safe when these two men respect one another. It validates my good taste in men :p

*OMG that looks weird in print! Haha!
 
thanks for the smile freetime. :D

Just a thought... why not just stay home next time and plan a night of fun for yourself. I'm not sure why you need to protect her. She is a grown woman and presumably not naive about the world. You could be going on a lot of dates before she finds the one that fits her life. At the very least maybe you could go and observe on a second or third date. By the third date though I would think you would be setting up a time to meet the dude anyway. I'm not sure how honest it is to watch from a distance anyway... its not sitting well somehow that this guy had no idea you were there... did I get that right? he didn't know you were watching?

When I was dating a couple of years ago I went through about 50 dates between late summer and new years. More maybe? If PN had come out on everyone we would be broke due to drinking out so much and he would of lost interest pretty quick. Not to mention my pace is crazy fast compared to him. I had two dates in one day once!

Besides, I can take care of myself and never went anywhere without him knowing where I was and when I arrived and left. I would pick places that were known to us a head of time and didn't drink alcohol on the first date. I was fine. Most of the guys were so terrified I was completely capable of doing something to them rather than them doing something to me!

Mono took one coffee date and that was it. Love. There was no question. If PN had been hanging over my shoulder when we met I would of felt very uncomfortable and would not of felt I had privacy. I would of felt like he didn't trust me and that he was in some way controlling me. We are both far too independent to be fussing around wondering about the dates we have at this point though.

Mono had a hard time me hanging out with my friends after I met. He didn't trust the men I was developing friendships with in our local poly community. It was not something he was used to to have his partner go out for dinner with a male friend... how could he trust that I would not be taken advantage of???!!:eek: ;) It seemed rather ridiculous at the time and confusing... I have never had that kind of concern for me before.

I dunno, maybe you should work on what you could do with your life during this time of your relationship and leave her to it... except for hearing how its going of course.
 
If you are worried about her safety you can always ask her to send you a text/give you a call at a designated time to let you know that all is well. It's easy enough to excuse yourself from the table for a minute to make that kind of call. It sounds to me that she wanted you there as a security blanket. Ask her if she feels safe at other times when she is out without you. There really isn't any reason if she is out in a public place and not consuming a lot of alcohol for her not to feel safe on a first date.

Make plans of your own next time she's out. Go and do something that you enjoy that isn't her favourite thing to do. Or for that matter stay home and do something that she doesn't like to do. I love my alone time. I get to watch my cooking competition shows that my husband isn't terribly fond of. I also get to make myself refried bean burritos and have ice cream with butterscotch sauce for dessert. I look forward to my dates with myself quite a lot.
 
Not a good night.

I don't feel well, Haven't all day. Physically mostly, but it's also affecting me emotionally. And sure enough I got into it with T tonight and here I am talking to you because I can't/won't talk to her. Biggest change in my life in 20 yrs and I'm no longer comfortable discussing it with T. Fucking awesome.

In our chat before I came up here to talk to you I asked T why I was the only one learning anything about this, (poly) and why wasn't she doing more to help me. Well as it happens as I came down stairs and just before I started my holier the thou sermon, T was on this very board reading posts in the fireside chat section. Yes really. We laughed, she didn't get upset and we went to sit down and continue our discussion, which instead of being a good experience ended as I described above.

My discussion has left me feeling like I talk to much, whine to much. Embarrassing? pretty much.

I want out. I didn't sign up for this. I've had enough, Ts free to fuck who she wants but I'm not sticking around to watch. it's been fun, ( not really ) but I'm done.
 
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Sometimes I'm slow.

My marriage is over. I realized tonight while lying in bed that stay together or not, my marriage as I know it, is done. It has been for awhile, it just took me until now to see it. The day T decided that she was poly was the day this union ended. Our vows are null and void. I've taken off my ring as the promise it represented is no longer valid. I'm all over the place emotionally, ups, downs you name it I'm feeling it. I just can not seem to find a fucking balance for long. I have experienced feeling really strong and truly happy for the first time in a long time but I can't hold onto it. This is so......Frustrating.

T made it clear that I've talked, babbled or rambled on about this far to much, so I'm just going to shut up and try to work this out on my own.

And just to make my day perfect, I'm getting a gut, not a big one but it bothers me. T looks like a Hotwife fantasy come true, and I look like shit. One more thing for me to work on, because I just don't have enough to clean up, fix, look at, deal with as it is.

I should have stayed in the basement.
 
Awww, Freetime! You're on a low on the rollercoaster. Sounds to me like lurking at the restaurant to "keep your wife safe" on her blind date really did a number on you. I could not have done that.

If your wife is getting tired of talking about her forays into poly with you, I feel it's time to take a break from the whole thing. She needs to stop dating and let all these new lessons you two are learning sink in. It's a huge change and you're both exhausted.

You will find your balance if you just slow down and be loving to each other for a while. You need reassurance... heck, I've been with my poly gf now for 2 years and I still really appreciate her expressions of love and need for me, in the hours before she goes to see her bf, and in the day after when she gets home.

Many hugs. I understand how draining these new insights can be.
 
My marriage is over. I realized tonight while lying in bed that stay together or not, my marriage as I know it, is done. It has been for awhile, it just took me until now to see it. The day T decided that she was poly was the day this union ended. Our vows are null and void. I've taken off my ring as the promise it represented is no longer valid. I'm all over the place emotionally, ups, downs you name it I'm feeling it. I just can not seem to find a fucking balance for long. I have experienced feeling really strong and truly happy for the first time in a long time but I can't hold onto it. This is so......Frustrating.

You're right, the marriage that you had is over, it's changed. Change doesn't have to mean bad though. It takes time to get to a new normal where things feel right again between you. You have taken on a lot and have done it very quickly. Give it time and let it sink in. Figure out what your boundaries are and talk about them. You are allowed to have needs. It looks like you're trying to be the good guy here and just going at the speed that she wants to go. The 2 of you are in a partnership though and if you don't speak up and say "too much, too fast" how is she to know that you're not doing ok?

Can you identify what your triggers are in this journey? Give her some really concrete things that you need her to do for you or that you need to be held back? Try not to write anything in stone because chances are that you won't always feel this way. The balance does happen and the hiccoughs become fewer and farther between.
 
...................
Hmmmmm what I"m trying to say here is that I don't know what I should be doing here II. How much more do I have to do? When this got started I signed on here, and got busy.I've worked to overcome any of my old emotional/mental shit that might get in the way of Ts journey and continue to do so. I've paid attention to everything you and the others have said and have done what I can to implement your suggestions. I've helped screen the candidates online, provided security on her date, and continue to be open to this new Idea called Poly.

But it seems that everyday I come up against or experience something I don't understand. Am I whining? Maybe. I just wish I had something to ground me when I start feeling uneasy or afraid. This board is all I have right now, You folks are it.

Hey Freetime,

In the event it's any help, I think the thing that gets most people over that final hurdle is just resignation. And I don't use that term in a weak, despondent manner. It's more a realization and acceptance of reality and rather than wasting time and energy fighting against, we make a conscious choice to flow with it.

Here's what it comes down to.................

When we really love people we want their happiness and fulfillment. (you're doing this now) But there's a possessive/selfish side of us that doesn't want their happiness to come at a cost to US ! And when it comes to love & relationships etc we've been taught it's a zero sum game - which of course is a fallacy. That's a whole topic in itself and not going there now.

But in the end it's this...........
We either are genuine in our desire for their happiness - or we're not. And that has nothing to do with any pain and discomfort it may cause us. Our pain is our OWN problem. Trying to force someone else to alleviate OUR pain eventually destroys the best parts and depth of a relationship. We're effectively holding someone prisoner against their will and best interest.

And at some point, we have the option of just giving that up. Resigning ourself to the fact that IF there is real love and bonding between us that it CAN'T be kept there with a barbed wire fence. It will either survive and grow on it's real merits - or it wasn't real in the first place. Only an illusion. Maybe a hope, a fantasy, a misinterpretation.

So we resign ourselves to find out the truth. And we quit building fences.....

What will be will be.......... and we accept that. We're not some god that has all the best answers for how life flows.

GS
 
I've been going through a lot of what you've been going through as well Freetime. One person on here said in my blog thing, that I was mourning. Mourning the loss of what my marriage was. It made a lot of sense to me. Even if you said that your wife can't be poly, and she was totally cool with that, it wouldn't change anything. It would still be there, and you would know it. She wouldn't be as happy as she could be....

It's an incredibly hard thing to overcome. I've been dealing with it the last few weeks myself. I think I'm finally starting to give it up, as far as trying to hold on to what we had, and go forward with what we have. It hasn't really changed anything at all. Only thing that has changed is how we feel about each other, and that hasn't been negative in any way.


It's going to take time to find a comfort area for everybody. That's just something you are going to have to figure out on your own. I still don't even know where mine is really. I'm still struggling with everything, and I still have back and forth days. I think there have been days where I started out cool with poly, then didn't want it, then for it again, and by the end of the day wanted nothing to do with it. So it seems the back and forth thing is pretty normal.

Are things going to fast for you? Is that why you want to fight it so much? Just remember that you have as much of a stake in this as your wife. If you need to start out slow, then so be it. Hopefully you can communicate that, and hopefully your wife will agree to it as well.

Good luck, and remember that your wife still loves you very much. Otherwise she wouldn't have asked you to go along with poly!
 
Ah Freetime, I'm so sorry you are feeling so low. It is indeed a process, but not the end of the world. Your stamina is being tested... time to slow down. It sounds like she needs a break too if she is sick of your talking about it so much.

Try not to take it personally, its a shame she didn't say she needs a break, but there ya go, things don't always come out the way they are intended... it takes practice to be patient and empathetic in communication. Its hard to not take others in consideration when words come out. I struggle with that too, as do others. Humans are inherently selfish and in a fit of needing something to end, it is easy to throw ones hands up and say "fuck it" or "shut up already" than realize what we are saying is not what we mean... really the language used should be more along the lines of "I need a break for a bit... can you give me 24 hours and then we will talk about it again?" or "I need a break from talking about this for now... talk in the morning?" Very different way of saying it. Emotion does crazy things to our need for some sanity in it all.

Keep at it my friend and agree to take a break for a bit. She has been going great guns it sounds like... it sounds like you have a need to catch up... I highly doubt you really think she should go out and fuck whomever because your marriage is done. From what I have read of you and your marriage, it sounds far from over, just changing... change takes time and taking breaks is totally valid. Totally valid to ask for too.
 
I have to say freetime, you're a braver man than I. I wouldn't be able to watch TP on a date. Mind you at this point I have been on dates with Mr A there...that not withstanding you're very fresh and this going out might have been pushing you past your comfort limit...

It's self destructive to torture yourself by seeing her out...that being said I've felt the same jealousy of TP going out and not anything about who she's with. Redpepper was right, when she goes out plan to fill your time; I went to the gym, read, played xbox...chores, anything to keep busy...
We're here for you and you are doing well, keep it up and be patient, the frustration will pass.
 
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