Loving without Fear: Cleo's path

Had a lovely romantic weekend away with Ren. Lots of talking, reconnecting, great food, lovely hikes, hotel room-sex :)

Now I'm home in bed with the flu (which was bound to hit me sooner or later - everyone I'm close to has been sick, and I've partying hard lately and not taking good care of myself, so...).
And while I am home alone, Ren is off on a date with Lou. Their dates don't bother me (much) (anymore), but today this one does. I just looked in the mirror and saw my flu-face, and the thought that he's in bed with a charming and beautiful woman right now who doesn't need to blow her red nose every 5 minutes, is... making me even crankier than the flu is already making me.

I guess I should just enjoy the fact that he's out of the house for a bit, I'm not a very good patient and I hate being nursed (detest those recurrent 'how are you? feeling any better?' questions - I just want to be left alone thank you). I just hope I won't pick a fight when he returns later tonight.

Feeling very disconnected from C. He's coming to my city this weekend and will stay with us, Ren is also here which means no sex for me and C., which means that theoretically we could skip the 'have you had sex with Molly and if you had sex with Molly did you use a condom?' talk. Knowing him, he will be happy to skip it, knowing me, I won't let that happen. Ah, I don't know... right now my head hurts so much I don't want to have ANY conversation, let alone a difficult one.

Have been exchanging witty emails and the occasional slightly naughty picture with BGuy. We have date in 2 weeks, which I am really looking forward to. Now, i just have to focus on getting better.
 
Tsk! I'm sure if he had a cold you wouldn't be extra glad to be on a date somewhere else since THEY wouldn't have a red nose, so don't even put any energy into those thoughts!

Sorry about the being sick on top of stress, is there anyway you could have a preemptive talk with C about Molly via email BEFORE he gets there so you don't feel the compulsion to talk about it face to face & sick when you're thinking you wont have an easy time with it?

I hope you recover quickly.
 
Tsk! I'm sure if he had a cold you wouldn't be extra glad to be on a date somewhere else since THEY wouldn't have a red nose, so don't even put any energy into those thoughts!

ha, I know you're right, it's silly.

Sorry about the being sick on top of stress, is there anyway you could have a preemptive talk with C about Molly via email BEFORE he gets there so you don't feel the compulsion to talk about it face to face & sick when you're thinking you wont have an easy time with it?

I hope to be better by the time he gets here, and we do face to face talks so much better than email or phone conversations, so I think I'll stick it out. I'm actually hoping he'll have had sex with her by then, because that will be easier to talk about then this ' I will probably have sex with her soon but I don't know when' thing.
 
I'm actually hoping he'll have had sex with her by then, because that will be easier to talk about then this ' I will probably have sex with her soon but I don't know when' thing.

was just re-reading this part and thought how funny this actually sounds, and how someone who's not poly would never understand this..:)
 
So, it turns out that C doesn't want to pursue a relationship with Molly anymore, because he was feeling uneasy about the fact that she is, in fact, looking for a mono relationship and was only saying she wanted to try to share him, because she likes him a lot.

I'm relieved that he found this out before things got to the point where they slept together. I still hope there's a wonderful woman in his near future who will not mind the fact that I exist. in his words, it made him unhappy, that he could talk to me about Molly, but not to Molly about me.

I had a strange reaction to his story. I had gotten pretty worked up about the whole situation. And then poof! it was all gone. And I realize that a new situation like this can pop up any minute. But I felt so silly to have worried so much about something that in the end never happened. Yes, something I do all the time, but this time the futility and stupidity of it really hit me.

Been feeling very calm and pretty detached ever since. About everyone. And weird: like there's a big hole where my anxiety about relationships used to live.
Ah well, I'm sure it won't be long before I find something to worry about...

Am going to see BGuy tonight, the first time since out hot make out session. We agreed on 'fun but no fucking'. We'll see where it goes :)
 
Dates with all my loved ones lined up. A sleepover with C this weekend, a sleepover with MrBrown next week, a date to have drinks with Knight next week. Lots of fun things planned with Ren. Lots of things planned with friends. A tentative date next month with BGuy.

Speaking of BGuy... That was quite the evening.. started out talking and drinking wine on his couch, which led to kissing, which led to a trip upstairs to his bedroom, where clothes were removed and lots of fun was had by all. Dragged myself home at midnight and felt delicously slutty all the next day :)

He seems to be ok with the 'fun but no fucking' rule, and I honestly can't see how we would've had more fun had we actually had PIV sex.

I feel tremendously calm about him.. would not care if I did not hear from him for weeks.. feel secure that he likes me and wants to see me again, and I feel the same way about him, but would not be sad or upset if things did not go that way. I think it's the most casual relationship I've ever had, and I can see myself meeting up with him once in a while when we feel like it, just enjoy each others company and bodies. I tried to explain to Ren why this feels so different from all my other relationships. I said: I don't want to spend the night with him.. I don't want to have dinner with him.. I don't want to go anywhere with him, well a bar maybe but no a movie or restaurant or hiking or a day trip or whatever.. It is just what it is and nothing more.

I keep surprising myself. It feels awesome.
 
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A date with Knight. (more about my history with him here)
Always the very first moment I lay eyes on him, when he walks into the bar where I'm waiting for him, I'm thinking.. is that all? Is this the guy I cried over, agonized over, for so long? He seems ike a regular guy. Not even all that cute. He looks tired, and older than I remember. But this only lasts 10 minutes or so. Then we slip into our routine of conversation and we keep going for almost 4 hours. Talk, talk, talk some more. Funny witty teasing, he challenges me so. Always makes me look at things from another perspective. I never know when he's serious or flippant and yet I do know.. when it gets real.. he is real and he is very serious. He became so beautiful to me agian over the course of the evening.


One tender, careful kiss, his hands on my leg a lot, some neck nuzzling and hair ruffling. Smiles and eye contact and togetherness. For the first time I managed not to cry in his presence, although there was one brief moment when I came close. Went home so happy to know him, have him in my life, this onconventional weird guy with who I have this unconventional, weird but meaningful relationship. Happy.

***************

Ren has a date with his ex GF tonight. They are what I like to call FWVLB (Friends with very little benefits) - close friends who hold hands sometimes, kiss or cuddle just a little. He still loves her and would love to get back together with her. She broke up with him, she said it was because of the poly thing, but has later admitted that she has severe commitment issues and that she always breaks up with guys after six months or so, and that she maybe used the poly thing as an excuse. I like her a LOT and would be so happy if they got back together. It was so cute seeing Ren a little nervous, finding the fridge stuffed with things she likes and things she might like (she's coming to dinner while I am at MrB.'s).

I am really rooting for him which is a great feeling. I have sometimes wondered if I am uncapable of feeling compersion with Ren - there is always so much resentment and jealousy when it comes to Lou, but I really think that that has a lot to do with her as a person and her behavior, and not so much with the fact that Ren has a GF. With another woman I would feel different. I dream of the day when he has a GF who I like and trust and who could become a friend. So fingers crossed that it will go well!
 
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So, C just sent me an email that he has slept with Molly and had unprotected sex.
We were fluid bonded, well I guess we're not anymore :(

I had told him that if he didn't use condoms with her we would have to go back to condoms. He hates them and often can't perform when using them. It hurts, a lot, that he chooses to have this experience with her instead of me. And this is the day after he sent me a long email how much he loves me and how much I mean to him.

In a way I'm glad he slept with her, it was coming. But the fact that in this important matter he chose her over me, has me scared.

He was supposed to come to my city tomorrow and we were supposed to go to this event where a lot of my co-workers would be present. I was nervous about it, in a happy-nervous kind of way. Now I feel weird about going there because despite his words, I feel slighted. Am I overreacting?

Also, I'm kind of mad at him for telling my over email. We texted and we're going to talk onthe phone in an hour. I'm so sad....
 
That does suck, and Im sure you've already talked, but I'd say dont be mad at him for telling you over email, that's a hard thing to tell somebody, and I'd focus on the upside of him wanting to tell you right away.

Overreacting? I would feel hurt if a fluid bonded partner chose to fluid bond with a new person and go back to using condoms with me if they had problems performing with them. I'd imagine it was because people get scared of performance issues with new partners but he feels comfortable with you so feels more at ease having problems in front of you? So I'd understand, but I'd be pretty unhappy too, but I'd try not to look at is as having them choose somebody else OVER me.

*hug*
 
Thanks Anne. We have talked by now. I wasn't so much mad about him telling it via email, but about the fact he emailed me and then immediately went into meetings for hours so was unavailable for communication.

we talked. I understand better where he's coming from. I've been his only partner for 14 months, after he came out of a pretty horrible divorce.

He said: I want to feel free.
I said: you are free, but your freedom is sometimes going to hurt me, and you have to accept that, and I have to be free to tell you about the hurt. And it can be the other way around at some point.

So yeah, I do understand him. And it still hurts. Have to feel the hurt, work through it, know and feel he loves me, and continue on the path we're on together.

I know with my mind he's not choosing her over me. I also know the fluid bonding means much more to me than it does to him, emotionally. I've only had condomless-sex with 2 men, ever... my husband, and C. It hurts that he chooses to give that up. But it does not mean that he does not love me. That is what I need to really tell myself, and feel.
 
On the other hand, all my other partners are so totally awesome :)

Ren came to the bar where I was last night to talk to me, and comfort me.
I texted MrBrown and let him know that some of the stuff / my anxiety that I had talked about with him a couple of weeks ago, were happening again. He's not the comforting type, and will never say words of reassurance, but he will say things that remind me that I am more than just a scared and anxious person, and that I have the freedom to choose.

and BGuy, who I wuld not even call a partner, but who continues to be awesome.. I had some worries, too complicated to explain here, about the privacy of our communications. He's on vacation now and I did not want to bother him with it, afraid to look stalkerish when contacting him at this time. But the worries were too strong and I did text him. He texted me back almost immediately, turns out there was a misunderstanding, and nothing really to worry about. I apologized, he said it was perfectly fine, and told me when he'll be back in town.

C. is coming to my city tonigt and we'll be together in public places with my co-workers most of the evening. But I'm sure we'll manage some time together to talk... and I'm really looking forward to seeing him, the actual person, which will certainly help to clear some of the mess in my head.
 
It's been a very interesting week.

C. came to spend the weekend, and we had a good time, and as long as I was in his presence I felt ok. But it was clear there was a lot going on and we did not really have the time to calmly discuss things, because we were mostly in public places with other people. When he left I immediately became very panicky and anxious, it did not help when I found out 2 days later, that he had gone to her straight form my house and was still there. We entered this cycle where I was very sad and anxious and asked him for reassurance and he would reassure me, but for some reason it did not help at all. I felt that he did not take me or the situation very seriously. He would just say things like, 'but, nothings changed between us, why worry so much, I still love you'.

Things got pretty bad on Tuesday when I was ready to just roll up and cry, making myself crazy with images of her being the only and most important person in his life.

Then I texted him and said that we really needed to really talk.

And we did, and something shifted - I felt for the first time that he took responsibility for the fact that everything is changed now. For the first time I felt that not only is this something that I have to work on (the fact that him having another relationship is such a major trigger for my anxiety is definitely something that needs investigation and a lot of hard work), and it's also not just something nice and new happening to him, but it is also something major happening to US.

We had such a good conversation, where I truly felt that he loves me, and how much I love him, and that we want the best for each other, and how amazing it would be if this new situation could be something that would help us grow as human beings, as individuals, and as a couple.

I've been feeling pretty good ever since. We've been exchanging some lovely emails, and it almost seems like we're deeper in love than we were before this. There is definitely still an edge there for me. Sometimes I make myself go to the place where I think about them together, about what they are developing. And I know that the fact that we are in constant communication is helping. But I do not want to ignore her, I want to learn more about her, I want him to tell me what he likes about her and why he is atracted to her, and I want to see how it makes him happy that someone is interested in him and attacted to him. So moments of compersion and deep, free love are interwoven with moments of feeling scared, jealous and anxious - but the anxiety is no longer the major player, and I have faith, in me, in him and in us.

We'll see where it goes. I think there will be new situations, lots of them, that will still be a challenge for me. I can easily see her becoming his primary - she's local, and single, and wants to be with him. How does that work? I just hope that even if I will see him less, that the connection will still be strong. Right now it's incredibly strong.

But wow it's a lot of work.. I'm exhausted from this week, really! So much emotional work to do, so many fears to face, instinctive reactions to question. I've really looked into my dark side these past few days. The fact that he is still here, and wants to know me, the whole package, from strong and confident lover to the panicky crying mess, is making me so happy.

He also told me that he talks about me with her, and that the people in his life who have met her, know that I (still) am his girlfriend. I think that was another major worry for me. He's never really introduced me to friends or family, and I could just see him introducing her to everybody, but not talking about me. I think this fear of being invisible, not existing, is a major trigger for me. Even writing about it now, knowing it isn't true, the thought makes me feel like I can't breathe.
 
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C broke up with Molly. I think.

He told me she is very much in love with him and he is not in love with her. He says it's too dangerous and he has to take responsibility. He says he probably should not have started dating a mono woman who was (and he knew this) really looking for an exclusive relationship. He says a lot of things. Most of them are really not my business, and if these past weeks have taught me anything, it's this: I have to stay out of other people's business.

We went away for the weekend together, a cabin in the woods, sunshine, wine, nice food, cuddles, talks, togetherness. It was truly lovely and I felt, at the same time, very connected to him and also more detached. It's like all the anxiety from the past weeks has finally melted away. Not because he has reassured me, not because I now 'know' we're ok, but because I have once again seen him as a real person, a person with needs and wants and quirks and weird habits and a wonderful personality and fears and hang ups and strange reaction and everything. He's not perfect, I love him, I would miss him terribly if we broke up, but I would survive.

I think BGuy is out of the picture. I texted him late one night asking when we would see each other again (he had emailed me earlier that week saying he would propose a date within a couple of days), haven't heard from him since. I think he found me too needy, or maybe he decided he did not want the 'making out but no sex' deal anymore? Anyway, I expected him to be the kind of person who would be upfront about this. Maybe I was wrong about him. I'll give it another week and then I'll email him and ask what his plans are. I do not feel bad about it.. but would feel better if he just told me he doesn't want to seen me anymore, instead of this silence.

Had a long texting session with MrBrown last night about the possibilities of exploring boundaries in our D/s dynamic. it's a scary and exciting subject for me. I did tell him something I had not told him before - I usually go to his place, and almost always his teenage son is also home. Bedrooms are far apart, but there is something about the possibility of meeting said teenager (or one of his friends, he often has friends over) in the hallway, or wondering wether the noise I make can be heard, or even the thought of sitting at breakfast the next day with a bunch of 16-year olds, which feels inhibiting. I can have really good 'regular' sex in this situation, but the kind of sex / play where new things are happening and boundaries are pushed, not so much.

So I said last night that I would like to go away for the weekend sometime - did not even mention the kid, just said that I would love to explore the dynamic somewhere that is neutral ground for both of us. It was a great conversation, I love that guy so much.

I was at dinner last night with a bunch of girlfriends / co workers. They all know about my life, but some know more details than others. At one point someone asked: "so, what's it like with with 2 men in your life?" I was silent for a brief moment and said: "well, actually, there are 3". It got quiet and awkward and nobody followed up on the question :p I felt a bit uncomfortable, mostly because I thought I had made others uncomfortable. But I really see no need to hide one of my loves... most of these women have met C, and know he's my boyfriend, and they will most likely never meet MrBrown, but why would I pretend he doesn't exist? He's very important to me.
 
It's my birthday this weekend.
I'm having a big party, cooking dinner for 30 friends. I LOVE my birthday, to me it's a day to be with friends and loved ones, to think about the past year, and to think about what I want to accomplish the next.

C is coming, and spending the night.. he's met many of my friends by now, yet having him there on my birthday seems like a big deal. We're in a good place.
I also invited MrB, I don't think he will come, in fact it would not surprise me if I did not hear from him today at all. I am trying to not let it get to me too much. I always say I trust him completely, well that means I have to accept him, too.. and to accept that he doesn't do things to please me, ever.
We had a fabulous date last weekend.. lots of new D/s stuff (he tied me up, hurt me a little, dominated me in all sorts of lovely ways) but also lots of cuddles, talks about everything. He is who he is and sometimes that frustrates me, on the other hand, I am never afraid of losing him, like I am afraid of losing C. It's all so very interesting, this need for control, the desire to let go, the exploring of the boundaries.

I was in the park near my house today and feeling a little upset and anxious. I decided to pick a tree, one that I pass almost every day, and use it as my symbol for freedom. Something that whenever I look at it, will remind me that I am free, to be and do whatever I want, to make my own decisions. To reaffirm that my own life is the only thing I have control over, to accept that loss is inevitable, to embrace the present.

++++++++++++


BGuy got in touch again and we have a date next week. I wasn't even that set on seeing him again.. but, I consider myself a pretty good judge of character, and it irked me that I had to think I was wrong about him. So I'm very glad I wasn't wrong about him, and I'm looking forward to a night of great conversations and hopefully a nice make out session :)

++++++++++++

I was reading through the last posts of the blog and I realize I haven't talked about Ren much. Things are really good between us, and pretty uneventful. I do find that with all the other stuff that's going on, we need to make the extra effort to connect and spend time together. It's easy to let each other slip to the bottom of the priorties list because we 'see each other every day anyway'.
Things with Lou are tense as always. I'm working real hard at letting him just BE in this relationship, not judge him for his decisions. It works sometimes, not all the time ... she added another lover, who is cheating on his wife... makes it hard to have any sympathy for her at all. She just sent me a birthday wish.. I deleted it immediately.. I just don't want to have any communication with her. The biggest challenge is still to accept that Ren loves her. He is is own person and free to love whoever he wants. But its not always easy. I do long for the day where he will have GF I like and want to hang out with!
 
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so yeah, MrBrown did just send me a very sweet birthday message.
With all my talk of not being attached and accepting things as they are.. I have to admit that this made me very very happy :)

this is now, I think, officially a very good day....
 
I hope you have the happiest birthday ever, and I hope you are surrounded by love and happiness all during your birthday weekend!

Ry
 
aaaaaannnnndddd.... they're back together.
C. says they are 'researching' what a relationship would be like.
he's not in love, she is.

I have no idea where this is going. The only way to keep my sanity about it is to keep out of it.
It's hard. I love him. I'm scared of losing him. The fact that he keeps changing his mind about her and the relationship with her? scary as hell.

It's going to take some time to get used to this new dynamic. It's new for him too, he's never dated 2 women before. And I've gotten too comfortable being his only lover. Yes, poly means sharing, Cleo, it means you're not the only love in his life.

Lots of things to reassure me: he's told co-workers he's dating both me and her, her friends know that he is also with me. I've been afraid that because she is local, she would become the Girlfriend and I would sort of fade into the distance.
We had some great talks this weekend. I feel he loves me, likes me, wants me. I just have to wrap my stupid non-poly raised head around the fact that he is now starting to love someone else, too.
 
I posted this on another thread in the Poly Relations Corner, me asking for advice about breaking the cycle of needing and asking for reassurance. Want to quote it here because it marks a significant step in the right direction.

something interesting just happened.

he texted me and said he loves me, and that he is trying to find a way to fit both me and her into his life, where he can be open to communication with both of us.

my first gut reaction was that I did not like that he mentioned me and her in one sentence in a message that also declared his love for me. Then I realized that this gut reaction made me glance over the part where he says he loves me and what I mean to him.

And then I looked further and realized how happy it makes me that he trusts me enough to be honest with me and tell me that he is struggling a bit.

And I also realized that the only way to stop the cycle of asking for reassurance, is not asking for reassurance.

I wrote back: hey, I know from experience that it's not always easy to have more than 1 important relationship in your life. I am confident you will find a balance that will work for you, for her and for me.
and oh... don't forget to enjoy the fact that you now have 2 awesome women who really like you.

I haven't sent the message yet.. just saved it. But it already has seemed to relieve some of the tension and anxiety. I think maybe because I managed to not make it all about me? and to even introduce a little lightheartedness..

This seems like a good path to continue on.

so what's happening here? Let's investigate.

The mere fact that he texts me that he loves me isn't the thing that's reassuring. He does that all the time. He sent me a lovely message yesterday and that did not prevent me from being a mess all yesterday evening and today.
So it's not his reassurance that makes me feel good.
What makes me feel better is the fact that he shares something personal with me. That he values me enough to not just say "honey don't worry I still love you" but to say "I love you, and things aren't easy for me or you or anyone right now, but I hope to find a way".

It's THAT what makes me feel seen, heard, valued, loved. The mere words 'I love you', nice as they are, don't accomplish that.

So there was that, and then there was the way I responded. Which made me feel like I took control over my own action back, instead of waiting around and sulking because he's having fun with someone else.

so the breakthrough was 2 things: me appreciating his vulnerability (must tell him that, how much that means to me) and me controlling my response, being strong, light, understanding, confident and loving instead of weak, needy and sad.

wow it does feel like extremely advanced gymnastics of the mind and heart sometimes :)
 
Cleo, I love you quote. I just shared it with T. Jane Austen was one of the first things that brought her and I together.

Also, I know what you mean about the texting. It's not the words; it's the intimacy that goes with it. Good luck!
 
I'm house sitting for a friend this week. When I arrived at her place yesterday it was like a weight was lifting. It was maybe the first time in a whole week that my anxiety was.. well not completely gone.. but like a fog that was clearing, still there, but not as thick.

It was so nice to be in an empty house, make the bed, put food in the fridge, cook a nice dinner at a leisurely pace.

I guess this means that I need some alone time.. when I woke up I even had the feeling that it might mean that I want to live alone.
Well let's start with a week of alone time and take it from there.. I can't even imagine the stress it would bring to tell Ren I want to live alone.

One of the things I realized, while just sitting there, doing a little reading, looking out the window, drinking some wine.. is how silly my absolutist thoughts are. Thinking that the fact that C is now also with someone else, will mean that he will completely forget about me and banish me from his life. His marriage ended because his wife, who he loved, asked him not see his GF or even his best (female) friend. He did not want to lose his wife and was devastated by the divorce, but he could not promise her that he would never want to be with someone else.

Why would he want to do something like that now?

And I'm not saying that things will not change. They will. But I had this image of some time in the future where we would maybe not be the lovers we are now, or have a relationship with the intensity and frequency we have now, but where we would still be part of each others lives.. because we love each other, and because we are also really good friends.

This calmed me down so much.. We have never fought, there has never been a harsh word, we never hurt each other or have been mad at each other. Why would I think that we would lose this friendship now that transitions are taking place?

I could lose one thing and find another.
 
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