Total newcomer, need some insight...

I think you're right Derby. I'm not sure if you've followed the whole thread, but that's the realization I had somewhere in the middle there.

Basically the answer is "no, I don't want to risk our friendship over it." Easy answer. It's honestly just nice that I can be upfront with my wife about having a close friend that I'm attracted to. I don't know that it even needs to go any further.
 
The other thing is, knowing what I know, there almost 'has' to be some correlation between her and my relationship with S. But I can't tell if it's her trying to keep my attention on her, or if she's intrigued by the idea that I might be "in demand." It's hard to say.

Well, I can give you the point of view of a wife :)
When my husband had an interest and confided in me, I felt much closer to him emotionally. I felt trusted, and like I was sharing something important in his life. It made me feel good about myself.
At the same time, when courting J (the woman in question), I took an active role in it. In a way, it's like I wanted to seduce her, as well, since if she was going to have a relationship with him, she had to take the whole package. That is, she wouldn't have a romantic or sexual relationship with me, but I'll be there, too. She had to be okay with that, so I guess I was desperate for her to like me.
So I ended up in some kind of a "courting mode", as well.

It's possible your wife is going through some of the same emotions.

Now, going back to your issue. It seems to me there are two things:

1) you both wish you had more partners.
If all there is to it is sex, a swinging club might be the perfect answer: no complications due to emotions, you don't know the people, etc. But careful, maybe you're on the wrong path. Maybe that wouldn't work for you. Maybe you need not just the sex, but emotions to go with it, or a commitment, or whatnot. It's worth thinking about it.
Some people are fine about the sex (for their partner) but find out they have a hard time with the emotions (of their partner for someone else). Some other people think they just want the sex but it doesn't leave them satisfied. They need something else.

2) You are attracted to your friend
It seems that you've realised there is more to it than physical attraction. Strong friendship? Romantic attraction? Either way, be absolutely honest about it with your wife (she has okayed the sex, but maybe she wouldn't be on board for more. It's hard to tell, so do a lot of talking) and then consider telling your friend.
However, it's like always with dating or confessing: she might not feel the same way. If like you said she saw you as "safe" because you're married, it might be a shock for her. She's had bad experiences, you say, so she needs to be reassured that you're not like all the other guys who disrespected her.
If you do talk to her about how you feel, make sure you let her now how you value her as a person and a friend. How you would be fine with no sex at all. Make sure she feels like an important person, valued as a woman, and not a piece of meat. This way, even if she doesn't feel the same way, I think that shouldn't endanger your friendship as much.

This feelings of being attracted (either physically or emotionally) to other people can be very confusing because we're taught they're wrong. As a result it's sometimes hard to know exactly what you feel. Sometimes it's harder to confess to physical attraction, because we're still told it's normal to be physically attracted to other people (as long as you don't do anything about it!). Confessing to others, but also to yourself, that you also have feelings for other people is much harder because there is a much stronger social stigma.

On the other hand, you are on a polyamorous forum here :p We're all about the feelings (well, we put them first at least). So I don't want to think we might have pushed you to say you also have feelings for her if you actually don't. The bottom line is, you need to figure out what it is exactly you want. It's the first and most important step, but often it's the hardest.
 
I think you're right Derby. I'm not sure if you've followed the whole thread, but that's the realization I had somewhere in the middle there.

Basically the answer is "no, I don't want to risk our friendship over it." Easy answer. It's honestly just nice that I can be upfront with my wife about having a close friend that I'm attracted to. I don't know that it even needs to go any further.

Oops busy at work and I think I missed some of the thread (either that or you all just post way too quick). :) Carry on...
 
It was cool to be honest with my wife. We talked more at some length and I let her read the thread. I think she has a good grip on things. She told me the sex wasn't related to S; which really puts my mind at ease.

It turns out C had had some of these thoughts before, too, and had not felt comfortable discussing them, for basically the same reason. It's so awesome to just be able to be honest and candid with my partner, I think things can only get better now.

Regarding S, I think all the advice I've gotten has been so helpful. If I'm being honest, I didn't expect everyone to be so caring and worried about her. Kind of eye opening, refreshing. Anyways, it's all out in the open now...time to just see where things go!
 
Not sure if it’s any help, but here I go :)

We(my partner and I) had a threesome with my really good friend (at this point she was his friend too). She is my friend from years back. Sex didn’t ruin any friendship for us(neither for me, nor for my partner). The emotional connection, bond, trust that we had is still there now (me and her). It’s all about how you go about it. :p
 
Thanks. What I've come to realize is, as a couple my wife and I can set whatever terms we are comfortable with. The real x factor is the friend, and how she feels about everything.

It's encouraging to know you were able to have that with a friend and not have things get all crazy. My wife is really only worried about the emotional connection, which, while present, isn't overpowering.
 
Thanks. What I've come to realize is, as a couple my wife and I can set whatever terms we are comfortable with. The real x factor is the friend, and how she feels about everything.

It's encouraging to know you were able to have that with a friend and not have things get all crazy. My wife is really only worried about the emotional connection, which, while present, isn't overpowering.

I was afraid before that it would make things go crazy between us...but then we started making out a year ago (me and her) and it didn't change the part that I was afraid of...and the thing is I didn't hide from her that I really liked her. It was pretty obvious...and with respect and honesty, lots of things can be achieved :)
 
Yea. Apologies for the litany of swear words below, not sure about the rules here but...I'm just hungover and not filtering well.

I'd like to hear what the posters have to say about this...especially you, redpepper :)

I went out with S and two other of our "house guys" last night, and we had a total blast. I assisted S with a digit-snag - not gonna lie, we make a pretty fucking awesome team. (guy was actually pretty cute, too...)

C worked all day, and had to work early this morning, so she opted out. I'd be lying if I said she probably wasn't at least a tad weirded out about me going out with S, after I'd been 100% open with her, but she said go have a good time, so I did.

S and I ended up catching a ride back to her place, since it was fairly close to the bar we were at.

So... there's a lot of talk on here / in the community about ground rules. I figured since we'd broached the subject, we should lay some down, just so they were in place - I guess I figured, better to be weird with rules than not with none. So the rules were basically go have fun with your friend, and hands off - i.e., nothing past the friend boundary we had already established. (I might add that, those are the rules that were in place all along , but it felt better/right having them spoken, out loud for some reason.) At some point C texted me "do what you want." I responded, (something to the extent of) "no, there are rules in place, and they will be obeyed, and it's not something we're going to change through a text message."

So, I ended up back at S's place shortly after last call. I was totally hammered, and so was S. I gave her a much-needed back rub, and then came the word-vomit...

Long story short (okay I've re-read this and it is long, but bear with me), I ended up telling her basically everything. I told her about C and I, wanting to experience more, etc. I told her about some of C's fantasies that led to the discussion, and I told her pretty flatly that I was attracted to her. It's hard to recount everything, honestly, because I was drunk, and it was really difficult, BUT, I was totally honest. Some things came up...

I guess I'm not the first married guy that's been interested in her - although I'm the only one that's been honest with her, which made me feel good. She said I was hot, and I 'think' she verified that she was attracted to me (felt really good. I 'was' lookin' pretty damn good.) It was obviously a stride out of her comfort zone to discuss it, which is not surprising in the least, but there ya go.

To make it really simple, I just told her how I felt. I love being her close friend. I told her I value her, and that, basically, even though I was attracted to her, and even if it was "okay" with my wife, I didn't want to fuck her like some notch on the post.

She's had an (extremely, like 2 times or so...) casual sexual relationship with one of the house boys, a guy that's one of my 3 best friends (the house boys.) It's weird to know - on the one hand, it hasn't ruined their relationship, so I think that casual 'fun' sex could work between the two of us - THAT BEING SAID, I realized something important: She'll never be close to him because of it. Maybe I'm putting words in her mouth, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. What do you think, gals?


I also feel like a fucking hypocrite, because her casual relationship with him made me extremely jealous for some reason. It hurts to say this because I'm not proud of it, but the thought process was "You can sleep with my other friends, why not me?" Like some party favor. Sick.

I don't approve of what she did with him, because it wasn't for fun - I think she did it to feel good about herself when she needed it, and my own opinion is that she always ends up feeling worse for the wear in hindsight. Maybe it's just me, and my lack of experience, but there ya go. Sex can be for fun, sure, but if it's for fun it should be in the name of fun - not because you're feeling down and you need a pick-me-up. Different things.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, for better or worse, what I really wanted was to connect with her and not feel guilty about it. Being open and honest was part of that, and I had to say what I had to say in order to do that. It's odd, but, I felt that jealousy fade immediately when I realized that (she might be) closer to me than she's ever been to any of the assholes that have used her, and used her, and used her. And honestly, fuck those guys, I want to kick their teeth in. I feel hatred for them. I feel hatred for the people that have used her - some I'll forgive, some I wont. I can't believe I wanted to join their ranks.

I look back at the post I initially made and I actually feel sick because of it. Because it reminds me of every other guy who's slept with her. They're all assholes. Fucking sick to my stomach. I had built up this version of her in my head that was impervious to feeling; an object.

Honestly, redpepper was so goddamn right...SO RIGHT. Her first post WASN'T harsh, it was goddamn real and true. I'm so fucking happy she said what she said in that post a few days ago - because, for fuck's sake, how self-centered was I being? I know it sounds contrived to say I felt that way then, and "whoa," now I've opened my eyes, but that's honestly how it's been. Maybe people that have already been around a few times know this more naturally, but when you've only had sex with one person ever, and for ten years at that, well...is it weird that someone could have an incredibly solid emotional relationship with their wife, but still think like a little idiot kid when it comes to other relationships?

It makes me sick to think I would have treated her that way. And the worst part? I probably could have. She probably would have. And then I would have been just another in a long line of fucking assholes that stopped by, used her, didn't care about her, and went along on their business. Just like pepper said. Yea, fuck that.

So I guess what I'm saying is...I feel a lot better now? Like a patient in recovery. I told her how I felt, and that felt good just saying it, and I told her how much I valued her as a friend. I don't know if I could have felt the same way if I hadn't included that I was attracted to her; being all-the-way honest is kind of an all-or-nothing deal, in my (albeit newly formed) opinion. I also couldn't have felt that way if I hadn't been honest with my wife.

It feels like a lot of drama just to tell a friend how I felt...I wish more people could just be honest all the time. It's honestly just so eye opening to me. Even though I've always "played by the rules," I was still a manipulative asshole. Manipulative assholes try to twist rules around, they contort things to make them suit themselves...and that's what was in my head, and that's almost my natural instinct. No more. Never again.

Well I think I've rambled on long enough. I could probably go on and on, but I think the important bits are up there.

I'm nursing an excruciating hangover, apologies for how disjointed this is.

You guys opened my eyes. Thanks. It mattered.
 
Wow mumbles! I can't make this smile big enough! :)

You'd be amazed at how many people don't figure out what you did and continue to do what they do for fun without consciousness and empathy; communicating before hand. The disconnect can get bigger and then they wonder why. Not that casual sex is not worth something just for reasons of fun, not to feel more self worth. Its hard to know at the time, which is why its so important to keep in tune with ourselves and be conscious of what we do.

Good for you and your breakthrough! Pass on what you've learned my friend. So that others can learn from you now.
 
Wow, its hard to believe this huge shift in mindset happened within 3 days!

Remembering to see S as a whole person, not a plaything, is so crucial... I'm so glad RP helped you refocus! S would have been so hurt otherwise, and you would have felt like the biggest asshole.

The next big test of this mindset will come if (BIG IF I know) you and S start getting involved. Its perfectly natural to think, C and you will make the boundaries. But S needs to be able to make her needs and wants known, as well.

And of course you'll have tons of work keeping C feeling loved, safe and cared for.

Congratulations on avoiding one of the biggest traps!


Side note: C's increased sex drive/curiosity could be more related to her depression being alleviated than anything else. As someone who has had long stretches of crippling depression, once you "wake up" from it, sex drive and overall confidence tend to go through the roof. Might be why she felt ok about bringing up the subject of your feelings for S, as well.
 
Crazy weekend, all told.

@anotherbo: It's not that it's a massive shift in mindset, persay, but more of a breakdown of cognitive dissonance. Busting down walls that I'd put in as a safety mechanism. To keep me safe. To keep my marriage safe.

I knew I felt a certain way. But I also knew what it would mean to admit that I felt that way. So instead, I put up walls - detachment - to hide it.

Dealing with these feelings openly and honestly forced me to deal with some demons, to steal a cliche. It actually gets all the way down to my father, and the ways he "taught" me to see and deal with women. I know it's the likeliest story in the book, but it's true.

My wife, C, as it turns out, did become quite jealous as we talked through things. It was a tough series of conversations. I had to say hurtful things a few times to be really honest.

What I realized was something I hadn't expected. It was never the sex that bothered her - she was being honest about that. Which is why she was saying to go for it - but at some point, I told her I had feelings that weren't as simple as getting laid. And then things got difficult.

I've read around that jealousy really comes from other places - and it really is true. The details are hurtful, and I don't want to go through them here, but suffice to say that S wasn't the only person that I wasn't giving enough respect. The weird thing is, it took all this to work through that, to realize that, and to realize what it is about myself that causes me to act that way.

If none of this had ever happened, I would have had a much quieter weekend. But things also would have been the same as before - I would have had feelings locked away in the closet, unaddressed - convenient, complacent, but miserable at the same time.

I had to put it out there, and risk hurting myself and others, to learn how to love better. And I have.

I'll never have the sexual relationship with S that I'd fantasized about. And it took me exploring those emotions to realize that I don't want to. She verified one thing - that she trusts me and regards me as a close friend. I promised her I wouldn't betray that trust.

I...don't know where that leaves us - NS partners, or close friends, or what. I guess at some point, you need to quit worrying about defining things and just talk about how the heck you feel. Honestly, the way you guys look at emotions, and the more I look at things, the more I realize that nothing is anywhere near as cut and dry as we're all conditioned to think it is.

Anyways. I'll be around. Thanks for everything.
 
NS partners is not a bad place to be. This site has a lot of good information to help strengthen your relationship with your wife as well.
 
I guess what's not clear to me is...where do you draw the line between a close friend, and someone who's closer?

Is there a line at all there? Or is it something that can only be self-described, in the eye of the beholder?

Put a different way,

What is the difference between a polyamorous person's NS partner, and a mongamous person's close friend?

Are there genuine differences here? Does it just come down to how you personally feel about the person?
 
I can only speak for what I have seen with my husband. I am the one that has labled our friend as his NSP or NS G/F, he just calls her a close friend, but he doesn't even have this close of a relationship with anyone else. Personally I like the term Partner vs G/F because it is a better description of their relationship.

1. If anything happened to me or the kids, she would be the first person he would call. He might even call her before calling me, depending on the situation. Truth is I would also call her if anything happened to him or the kids before even calling my mom and have.

2. She knows more about our family life than anyone else not living with us.

3. People mistake her for his wife and are surprised when I finally show my face. It is actually the ongoing joke that she is his second wife, even from her husband.

4. They can't go more than a day or two without talking, not sure who actually needs to talk more(probably her since my husband is happy just being silent). Texting is another story:rolleyes:

5. I don't even blink an eye if she is at our house when I get home from work on his day off.

For the most part, I have never been bothered by their relationship, except when things start getting bad between us, then all my insecurities come to the forefront. They do alot of service projects together and it is nice knowing that someone will be looking after him when I can't be there (or don't want to), she is a detail person like me where he sees the starting line and the finish line and can't see any of the pitfalls inbetween.
 
Last edited:
I guess what's not clear to me is...where do you draw the line between a close friend, and someone who's closer?

Is there a line at all there? Or is it something that can only be self-described, in the eye of the beholder?

Put a different way,

What is the difference between a polyamorous person's NS partner, and a mongamous person's close friend?

Are there genuine differences here? Does it just come down to how you personally feel about the person?
Sorry I missed chatting with you this morning Mumbles. Work is not the best place for me to chat, but I would of liked to of said hi.

I think your relationship can be whatever you want it to be. No restrictions or boundaries in terms of definition. The rules are fluid and about following what feels right. My NS boyfriend and I decided on that term for us because it fits. I hold his hand, snuggle up to him in a loving way and talk to him about deep issues. It just fits to call him a boyfriend. He and I both enjoy that. I get my sexual needs met elsewhere and he is working on that too.

Really, you are working so hard and should feel very proud I think. Your wife sounds like she is struggling, but I haven't heard any reason she can't trust you so hopefully she will come around to realize that you love her. It takes time, patience, empathy, respect and continued honest communication; radical honesty. Good for you! :)
 
@redpepper: Yea, no sweat on missing me - I was at work too, it was just slow at the time so I thought I'd give you a shout.

I feel the same way; it's more about feelings than labels.

You said I've been working hard...what's really weird about this whole occurrence is it's forced me to look at the way I look at people in my life (not just women!) and realize that I've lived (in secret?) as a self-centered prick for a large bit of my life up to this point.

For instance, my friend B is my single closest friend. He and I go back farther than anyone I know. His dad died not too long ago, and he has a newborn on his hands. He has a really hard time talking about his feelings...I know he's having a hard time letting go of his dad's death.

He's said a few times...things that, had I been caring about him, should have indicated to me that he needed me; so many times I just ignored it. I'm not ignoring those things anymore - he'd had a really hard day yesterday, and for the first time in a long time I put his needs in front of mine, and drove out to him with a couple of brews. (His baby-mama was out of the house, too, as she seems to be a lot. He's told me she leaves him alone kind of a lot, and when he's alone he cries to himself.)

I only bring this up as an example - you go through life thinking you care about people, but so often it's just pretend, and life's entirely too short to pretend.

C and I are actually not shook up at all. Better than ever. We did end up talking really intensely for a few days, about what turned into a much wider range of topics than just me and S.

I had a strange epiphany about it. Remember that "odd" feeling I'd had, how things just weren't quite right with me and C, even though we weren't fighting, or having any major problems? I'm about 99% sure I know what it was now. We hadn't connected emotionally in a long time. I realized something about C that I hadn't before. She feels secure and connected to me when I open up to her, and talk about my feelings with her. I've always (surprise surprise) had a really hard time talking about any of my feelings, and especially things that have to do with my upbringing - there was a lot of "soft" domestic violence in my home, and although my dad has a lot of good qualities, treating women correctly and caring about people was never one of his strong suits. It hurts me so bad to talk about some of those feelings, so I've always boxed them up.

Here's how I know. I've read that jealousy is indicative of something secondary, and I've also read that it stems because of an unmet need; it now makes perfect sense to me that C would be upset that I was having an emotional connection with someone when I hadn't had one with her in a long time - and still have trouble opening up to her when I do. When I talked to her, and opened up to her, the jealousy faded so quickly and was replaced by love and passion. She wasn't mad at me about S. She understood about S. She'd had her need to feel connected met, and I think that's what really put her at ease.

Going forward, I'm going to make sure THAT is the need that I meet, and it's a lot harder than what I'm used to. It's easy to buy someone a purse to make them feel superficially happy; it's much harder to share yourself and share your feelings with someone when you're not used to it. But that's what feeds her, and she was starved.

It feels so good knowing I have a lover who understands me. C isn't threatened by S as much/at all, even knowing "the whole story."

You might have noticed I speak in metaphor a lot - I just find it helpful. I think I found my favorite one so far though, talking to B last night. I told him, human relationships aren't black and white, or even delineated by shades of grey. They're more like individual paintings; each one has it's own palette, with it's own mix of colors. When you paint a painting, sometimes you apply more of this color, or more of that color; if it's a relationship you care about, you really concentrate and pick the right colors to make it the...best painting you can. If you don't care, the colors sit on the palette, and mix, and get untidy, unkempt. You try to paint it and it's dirty, and doesn't look how you want it to. That's just my new favorite metaphor and I wanted to share it. :)

I thought for a while, "How can I start having the relationship I want with S?" ...and I kept thinking, and thinking. What I finally decided to do was send her a text message:

"How's life for you today?"

Nothing much different than something I've said to people a million times before. But this time, I care about the answer. And that's all I have to do to feel good.
 
Last edited:
I thought for a while, "How can I start having the relationship I want with S?" ...and I kept thinking, and thinking. What I finally decided to do was send her a text message:

"How's life for you today?"

Nothing much different than something I've said to people a million times before. But this time, I care about the answer. And that's all I have to do to feel good.

Hey Mumbles,

Well, well...........

Quite the little journey you've had in a short period. But that seems to happen to more people than we probably realize - some of which discover this "label" (poly) and end up there.

I was stuck on a previous post of yours while reading the one which included the above quote. The age old question of where does a "friendship" end and "love" begins.
I think what many of us either believe - or hope for - is that the line begins & ends with a realization. The realization that there is really no difference - only a difference in whether we embrace it and follow through with actions.

You seem to have hit this realization - not only with S - but with C - which is beautiful. Doesn't it make you feel you took a leap to a whole new level in your relationship ?

When we care enough about someone besides ourselves to TRULY care, to actually feel their pain when they hurt, to step forward to try to bring something light into their life - what else CAN you call this ? And I guess my point is, it doesn't matter ! Call it 'friendship'. Call it 'love'. Call it Namaste. Whatever.

But you feel it. And it changes you. Usually forever. And if you are brave enough - you live it !

GS
 
Even found it for your friend. Right now it sounds like he needs someone to be present in his life. It sounds like he is really hurting. GS is right there is really no difference between friend and lover other than investment for me.
 
Back
Top