The struggle continues

"It generally feels to me like you think because he is your husband, he has to commit to marriage with you under your terms and if he's unwilling, that makes him a bad and unreliable person."

I am apparently supposed to commit to marriage under his terms though? I told him a few weeks into this that I was uncomfortable with it and it was moving too fast. There was ample time for him to slow things down, he chose not to. I have offered an amicable divorce on multiple occasions and he tells me he doesn't want me to leave. He does what he wants and I am just supposed to go along with it?

I know we aren't compatible anymore. I have accepted that. I told him that I accepted that and we could either agree that I need to move out while he is gone or I can move into the guest room until I have taken my test in June. He was upset, told me he knows he fucked up and I am the most important person in his life, but he was still going on his trip this week. So, unbeknownst to him, I'm moving into the guest room while he is gone. He wants to find a therapist, I told him it's a waste of money at this point, he said he still wants to try. I have been very clear for most of this last year that I am not ok with this relationship, his unwillingness to compromise, and his unwillingness to meet my basic needs. I am supposed to accommodate his and her needs,he is not willing to accommodate mine. Per him, my needs are my responsibility. But I am supposed to respect Kim's needs and assure her that I'm not going to ruin their relationship. So I told him I would leave so he can be with her, he said he doesn't want that. So, I'm pretty hurt and confused.

As far as mixing emotions and sex, he has done a complete 180 in the last 10 years. He used to say he just wanted the sex to spice things up, then it needed to be someone he was comfortable with, not he needs an emotional connection.

We used to listen to podcasts together, listen to books, have discussions. 6 months ago, I was like "hey, you know how we used to talk this stuff out, educate ourselves, etc, we need to do that." He didn't do any of that. He comes home, goes in the office, and comes out when dinner is ready. I think there were parts along the way that I was willing to negotiate, but I think I'm past that now.
 
He doesn't have to slow down though. That's the thing. You think you can say something and he has to respond. He's likely upset about what's happening with you guys but since he's gone/going, he likely doesn't feel he fucked up. Conversely, he likely feels that he's chasing his most authentic self by pursuing his desires.

It seems like your needs are to limit his feelings/actions with this other person and that's not what he wants to do. If there seemed to be some ground where you wouldn't continually angle for them to split, that option may have seemed more attractive but it's quite obvious that you can't and won't deal with the somewhat inevitable fact that people who have sex and hang out are going to feel quite strongly for one another.

You can decide enough and file for divorce, my guess is that you don't actually want to and don't plan to. Instead, I think you plan to keep threatening divorce in an attempt to persuade him to change his mind. The problem is that you will feel more and more demoralized when he doesn't.

If you'd come on here before Kim, many of us would tell you that your restrictions and limitations are unrealistic and would likely lead to a situation where he discovers he has these feelings before he gets to okay it with you. This is why people advise against trying to manage and control other people's feelings. It's like herding cats.
 
Hi Bunny,

I don't know if I'm just stating the obvious here, but it seems to me that what your husband wants is both Kim and you. And, I think that as long as he believes he can have both of you, he is going to continue to play it that way. Yes you tell him it's her or you, you tell him you are going to divorce him unless he breaks up with her, but all he has to do, seemingly, is tell you that he doesn't want a divorce, that you are the most important thing in his life, that he doesn't want to lose you, and that he knows he messed up ... and if he says those things, he can count on you staying and the marriage continuing, even if he flies out to visit Kim. Thus he can have both of you, even though you tell him otherwise. I think this is how he sees things, based on what he observes. He may be wrong. You may be planning to divorce him after your test in June. But I wonder if he believes that even then you'll still stick around. He's kind of taking you for granted, does that make sense?

You are moving into the guest room, I think that is the smart thing to do. It may even snap your husband out of his belief that he can wiggle his way out of a divorce. You could then follow up by setting June as a deadline, telling your husband that you will divorce him in June if he has not broken up with Kim by then. Then, and this is important, follow through with what you said and divorce him in June (after your test) if he hasn't broken up with Kim by then. He needs to know that you mean what you say (when you talk about divorce). *You* need to know that you can count on yourself to stand by your word. Otherwise you are just stuck with him forever, and he gets to choose the terms of the marriage no matter how much you object. The truth is, you already know that you and he are no longer compatible. So there is no reason not to divorce. It saddens me to say that, I know that what you really want is to stay married and for him to break up with Kim. :(

I just hope you can catch a break.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
So, I offered to move out, he said I'm the most important thing in his life. I was very honest and told him I'm checked out. He told me he would think about breaking up with Kim, but he is still getting on a plane to go see her tomorrow. I keep asking what is so amazing about this girl that he is willing to throw our marriage away, he doesn't see it that way.

Could stop offering. It is like you are asking him what he wants or like you are asking him to engage with you. He's been absent a while now. Where you've been vocal and honest all along.

Move out. It's not gonna be a surprise to him if you do. And at least then YOU get some relief from all this wacky. I could be wrong but at this point you are checked out, no longer care and it's the circling the drain part that is bringing you the most UGH.

And perhaps a little bit of "Dude. I have one foot out the door, I am TELLING you I'm going, and still... nada." That tells you all you need to know right there. But it's a hard pill to swallow all the same. :(

I know we aren't compatible anymore. I have accepted that. I told him that I accepted that and we could either agree that I need to move out while he is gone or I can move into the guest room until I have taken my test in June.

Well, if you are checked out now? You do NOT have to agree. He's going off to do his thing. You can do yours. YOU just decide to move to the guest room or move out entirely while he's away on his trip. Get on with detangling your life. Whatever your finances can allow. Get your certificate in June.

If he's going to be a drag in the detangle and you have to guest room because finances? Tell him you will think about the couples therapy thing again over summer. Give you space. Stop some noise for a time.

And you CAN think on it again . It's not a lie. You can also conclude again that "nope. Thought some more. Still same answer -- I don't want to do therapy with you. I am moving out. Bye."

He was upset, told me he knows he fucked up and I am the most important person in his life, but he was still going on his trip this week. So, unbeknownst to him, I'm moving into the guest room while he is gone.

There you go. Just decide. Do your thing.

He wants to find a therapist, I told him it's a waste of money at this point, he said he still wants to try.

Well, he can do that. He can go see a therapist on his own when he gets back.

He can invite you to couples therapy. You can say no. Because you are done. *shrug*

Prepare yourself for going the other way. Zero attention and then TOO MUCH attention when you don't even care any more. Trying to hoover you back in.

I have been very clear for most of this last year that I am not ok with this relationship, his unwillingness to compromise, and his unwillingness to meet my basic needs. I am supposed to accommodate his and her needs,he is not willing to accommodate mine. Per him, my needs are my responsibility. But I am supposed to respect Kim's needs and assure her that I'm not going to ruin their relationship. So I told him I would leave so he can be with her, he said he doesn't want that. So, I'm pretty hurt and confused.

Understandable. And after a while? Even if he suddenly wakes up? It's too little to late for you.

I think there were parts along the way that I was willing to negotiate, but I think I'm past that now.

You sound like it. :(

It's sad it has come to this. But there it is. Sigh.

I hope detangling goes smoothly for you.

kdt26417 said:
You could then follow up by setting June as a deadline, telling your husband that you will divorce him in June if he has not broken up with Kim by then

I am going to respectfully disagree with Kevin. You can set the deadline for yourself to go file for divorce in June. Not even bother to ask him anything any more.

Whatever he does with Kim or not? It doesn't matter. You are checked out now.

I think at this point? He's just ignored you so long? Even if he ends things with her why would you even want him "back?" It's not about her. If he would have been willing to slow down a bit it sounds like you were willing to adjust to her being in the picture. It's just that he treated you crap running right over you while saying how important you are.

Talk is cheap when not backed up by matching action. When you get mixed messages? Say one thing, do another? I'd go with ACTION. And the actions here were anything but loving ones. Just steamrolled you. To me it sounds like it is about trust that was broken in a big way. And to me?

The choice of being free from all this stuff you don't want and getting to start over and start fresh? That sounds waaaaay more appealing than riding THIS same tired merry-go-round thing over and over and over and never getting anywhere. You sound so done with it all.

You have BEEN doing that ride. How much louder do you have to say it?

Could just decide to stop talking. Just not buy another ticket. Could just plain get off this ride. Move on without him.

I guess it is nice if he wants to go to therapy and figure out where he screwed up. But that's his stuff now, not anything to do with you. You can be done. You don't have to do "post care" emotional labor for him or with him. You have to take care of YOU.

It's up to you how you want to handle detangling, though. In what steps, in what order.

If the finances make it possible and I was in those shoes? I would go get a new flat while he's gone, move out. Turn off anything in my name like power, phone, etc. Take out half the money from joint accounts and leave copy of receipts that I did that on the counter. Go open my new bank accounts only in my name. Then start living my new life. Go file for divorce and wait for the machine to crank up and him to be served with papers. Then dissolve the rest in settlement. Taking half is fair. You need money to live on in the breaking up time and so does he.

If not? Go guest room instead, take out half, still make your own accounts, detangle what you can, etc. When things are left in joint either one can walk in and just CLOSE the account and keep it all.

Some of my divorcing friends did not believe that a STBX could be so asshole to do that until it happened. I warned them. But there it was. The ex was mad about the soon to be divorce, and wanted to get financial digs in. Like "try to get a lawyer now, bitch!" So be careful, ok? :(

Galagirl
 
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When people show you who they are believe them....
 
Luckily, we never fully combined bills or the house and we keep separate funds so that part is easy. Unfortunately, I am not in a place financially to file or move out until summer time.

We talked Wednesday night and I told him I was done and not willing to go to therapy or work on the marriage. As usual, he told me I am the most important thing in his life, he doesn't know what he would do without me, etc. I responded with, "But you are still getting on a plane." He said he was thinking of breaking up with her, I told him obviously that was not going to happen and I hope they will be happy.

At this point, our relationship is emotionally abusive on both sides and I am acting like a crazy person. The emotional roller coaster is insane and I need to get off.
 
That IS lucky.

I'm sorry money is tight til summer. Sounds like its the guest room then for the next couple of months. When June comes, move and file then.

At this point, our relationship is emotionally abusive on both sides and I am acting like a crazy person. The emotional roller coaster is insane and I need to get off.

I can appreciate that need for the roller coaster to stop. You can quit with the emotional abuse from your side. It may require a lot of self discipline esp if you are being provoked.

I think you are at the place of dealing with dialing down the noise some while you are in the guest room. The space between HERE and THERE.

Here's a thought -- agree.

If he wants to do couple therapy? Agree to think about it.

You could say "Look, I'm mad. I need some time and space to calm down. I will think about couple therapy but you can't be bugging me about it. We are both going to crazy spaces right now and it is hurtful. Do you agree to those terms? I will think again and you will not harp on it?"

Then hold the line. If he bugs you, you can say "I said I would think, and that I need time and space over summer with no harping. You said you wouldn't harp. This is harping to me. Stop."

Short and sweet. No engaging in drama.

Hopefully it dials down SOME and there's a bit more quiet between here and summer.

He can do whatever, and you CAN think about it. It's not a lie.

That you end up in the same place? It is what it is. Be careful when you have moving day leave and have friends with you/movers with you.

Leave a letter. "Ok. I spent the time and space. I thought about it all again. I still conclude the same. I do not want couple therapy. I still want out. I have filed for divorce. I have moved out. I don't want an ugly split. I want a respectful split. I do wish you well. But I do not want to do poly like this. So... I have to bow out."

Then if the noise cranks up again because of upset or acting out or whatever? It doesn't matter. You have moved to another flat by then. You are not IN it any more.

Maybe other people have ideas for how to de-escalate and start turning the burner on the pot down?

It's so difficult. My sympathies go out to you.

Galagirl
 
I don't get why moving to your own bedroom is so hard. He comes home from work and goes to his office and doesn't come out until dinner is ready. Which YOU MAKE FOR HIM? Stop cooking him dinner. If he goes to his office, don't call him when YOUR dinner is ready. Cook, eat and clean up. He comes out eventually, hungry? Asks, where's dinner? Say, I don't know where your dinner is, I ate already. Then he can make dinner and eat it and clean up.

Same goes for laundry if you're still doing his.

Same goes for sex if he comes around sniffing for some. However, IF you can stand the idea of having sex with him, even if you no longer want to share sleep, or cook or clean for him, go ahead and have some sex. Get some orgasms.

At least, that's what I did.

Start living a separate life under the same roof. He's treating you shitty. Of course you're "important" to him, if you provide homecooked meals and clean clothes and a decluttered environment, and sex. And he doesn't give you anything in return? The heck with that. I'm glad you can stay there in your own bedroom for a couple months, until you can more comfortably afford a place of your own. If he starts acting scary though, when you stop sharing sleep, sex, cooking and cleaning for him? Go stay with friends or family. Or run up a credit card if that's the only option for a while. Be safe. Don't let him use you. Because that's what he's doing.

When I started treating myself better, establishing clear boundaries, my ACTIONS (not my words) starting giving my wandering husband a clue. All of a sudden he wanted to take me away for the weekend. To take me out to dinner more. He even started buying me flowers! Good grief. I enjoying the hotel rooms and sightseeing, the meals I didn't have to cook, the flowers, even the sex, but I kept making my divorce plans. He was still in love with the other woman. He started appreciating me too late. He started re-wooing me when I was already mentally and emotionally gone. And soon we started living apart. And then we eventually finalized our divorce. At our final judgment he was still sad at losing me. I was not sad. I was only relieved.
 
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