New and looking for support

I'm new here, and not really sure if my situation would even be considered polyamory...but I do not know where else to turn.
Can it be considered polyamory/ethical non-monogamy/open marriage, if one of the relationships a person is in is completely non-sexual/non-romantic?
I am married to my partner (for 14 years), but for a myriad of reasons (including my own mental health issues), we have not had an intimate sexual/romantic relationship for years. There is emotional intimacy on so many levels, because we live together, raise a young family together, go about living life together...but deep emotional intimacy and anything physical has been missing for a long, long time. And recently, my partner met someone new, who she decided to pursue a relationship with as well (long distance, seeing eachother every other weekend), and has fallen in love with.
But my partner still wants to, as long as it is okay and works for all of us, continue living with me, raising a family with me, maintaining the same connection/love etc., we had before she met this person. So what would this be considered and called?
I know my partner and I are more than friends, roomates and co-parents. There is so much love, connection, history, between us, that it has to be more than that. We are still married (although we have talked about separation and divorce, and neither of us want that, unless we absolutely have to). We still spend time together (with and without kids), sleep in same bed, plan family vacations, everything, like before. And my partner refuses to say one relationship is more important than the other (no hierarchy, no terms like primary/secondary, because the relationship she has with me and the one she has with the new person meet such different needs she has). I wish like crazy we could have the deep intimate/romantic relationship she has developed with the new person, but my partner is also not willing to work towards that, doesn't think it is possible any more. But she also is going to couples therapy with me....to help strengthen our connection, communication, relationship, etc.
So what would all this be? I feel safe and calm when I think it is an open marriage/polyamorous relationship (where I am the monogamous one)...but is that what it really is, if there is no romance and physical intimacy between me and the person I am married to, and she is involved with someone else?
I feel very lost and alone in all of this, feel like my situation in so many ways is different than most other peoples. It is also far more complex then what I have just explained. But I desperately need a framework for it, and to ideally know I am not alone?
 
Well love comes in many forms. While certainly not the most common, I would call it poly. Is there something causing you to doubt her intentions?
 
Though it’s probably not the majority of people who practice polyamory, I know plenty who have nonsexual partners in their constellation of relationships and value them right alongside the sexual ones. That’s part of why under some circumstances polyamory can be a great fit for asexual folks. Whether being that non-sexual, non-romantic partner (in a mono/poly arrangement) is right for you partly depends on whether you can live with not having a sexual relationship of your own, indefinitely.

For my own part, just as I would consider a partner’s partner who I was not personally involved with as part of my family, I consider a couple of people part of my family who I am not sexually involved with (my exGF MightyCupcake and her husband Dynamo, and to some extent, my husband’s best friend Em who lived with us for eight years and helped raise our daughter during that time).
 
I agree with Sunray. It could be considered poly since polyamory really just means many loves. More important than what you call it is whether it's a sustainable relationship style for you? Can you be happy long-term without the deeply intimate relationship that you wish you had with your wife? Can she handle you dating if you later desire to seek that type of relationship elsewhere? Those are some of the questions you may want to ask yourself, and her...
 
I feel very lost and alone in all of this, feel like my situation in so many ways is different than most other peoples.

Many (most??) long time married couples come to the same place you have come to: The romance and sex are long gone, but the lives are entwined with emotional attachment. Why do you feel that your situation is so different than most? Curious what this sense of isolation is all about.
 
I wish like crazy we could have the deep intimate/romantic relationship she has developed with the new person

I take this to mean in the sense of "I wish I had a flying dragon".

but my partner is also not willing to work towards that, doesn't think it is possible any more.

A normal human reaction under the circumstances.

But she also is going to couples therapy with me.

Gosh, that's great!

I can't take the loneliness away but to say you are not alone, meaning in historical experience. Until very recent history, and then even for just the first world, marriage was not about romantic love.

What can we do other than begin with self-awareness and wisdom? There has to be a backstory here on yourself that goes to childhood. The immediate problem at hand is her starvation for a basic human need.

From my point of view, it is kindness to grant someone that, holy shit people who don't get laid have health issues like stress and depression, more sick days at work, they die sooner, etc.

I'll leave it at that.
 
Hello hideawayprincess,

The thing about poly is, it does not have to involve sex, you aren't having sex with your partner right now, but the two of you have a very close relationship with each other and have been married for 14 years. So why would that not be poly? Do not feel like you are alone, you will fit right in with this forum, and can make many friends here. We care.

It's good that you and your partner are going to couples therapy, who knows where that could lead in the future? Do you feel empty inside, due to you and your partner not having that deep emotional/physical intimacy that you used to have? Do you want to remain monogamous (for your own part), like be in a mono/poly relationship with your partner, or would you like to find an additional partner for yourself?

I hope Polyamory.com can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I am just struggling with this shift in my relationship with my partner, and feel lonely because there is no one in my immediate circle of family/friends who truly understands it. Plus my partner isn’t really comfortable with words like polyamory and open marriage, so in a lot of
ways that makes me feel even more lost too. (I apologize, I know I am one of those people who needs labels and words to help define things, even
Though I know that may be wrong). This shift is also not something i ideally would have wanted, but I am trying my best to work
through this all to make sure both my and my partners needs are being met. I don’t know if it’s something I can sustain, if In the end all my own needs will be met, but it is all something that is worth me trying to work with because what i do have with partner is so vitally important to me at this point in my life, that I can’t just give it all up. Doesn’t make it any less hard at times though.
 
You might find it useful to explore the term Relationship Anarchy (sometimes abbreviated RA). The premise of RA is that it's a form of non-monogamy in which relationships are defined only by the people in them, not by any societal expectations.

RA people tend to believe that romance and sex aren't more important (or higher in a hierarchy) than platonic friendships. Many RA people are asexual and/or aromantic (while others are wildly sexual and romantic; there is a big range). Among RA people, it's quite common to have platonic life partners who live together and raise children, but also have sexual and/or romantic relationships with other people.

However, if you are wishing that your partner would have sexual & romantic intimacy with you, it might be very difficult to live in a non-sexual marriage while your partner has sex & romance with someone else. That sounds extraordinarily painful.
 
Hi Princess,

Welcome to our little board. You're not alone.

I'm guessing you and your wife are both women? Since you chose the name Princess. So, that adds to the situation. FF relationships are more likely to become asexual because of a lack of the driving force of testosterone. On the other hand, emotional connection can be even stronger than in MF het couples.

I am glad you and your wife are in counseling. To me, it sounded like your wife just went and started seeing someone else, long distance, and going away from you and your shared children, every other weekend, and no doubt taking time away from you and the kids by texting the new person, and having sex, and "falling in love," all before you two had discussed Opening your relationship! Do I get this right?

Did she start by "cheating on you," with someone else online, getting emotionally intimate, and then maybe doing the cybersex thing, and then meeting irl, without your informed consent? Was it just sprung on you, and you felt you had no choice but to accept it? Why?

I understand you want to label all this, and that's fine if you want to put it into some kind of category. I call it "cheating in plain sight."

Why is it fair she gets to go away every other weekend, leaving you home with being responsible for the kids and all the household stuff, while she's off having NRE lalas, dates, uninterrupted conversations, exciting new person sex, etc.? Is she just now keeping your around for a warm bed and babysitting?

You don't have to answer all this right away. Just some things to think about. Has your counselor been any help? Do they understand Open relationships or polyamory?
 
Hi Princess,

Welcome to our little board. You're not alone.

I'm guessing you and your wife are both women? Since you chose the name Princess. So, that adds to the situation. FF relationships are more likely to become asexual because of a lack of the driving force of testosterone. On the other hand, emotional connection can be even stronger than in MF het couples.

I am glad you and your wife are in counseling. To me, it sounded like your wife just went and started seeing someone else, long distance, and going away from you and your shared children, every other weekend, and no doubt taking time away from you and the kids by texting the new person, and having sex, and "falling in love," all before you two had discussed Opening your relationship! Do I get this right?

Did she start by "cheating on you," with someone else online, getting emotionally intimate, and then maybe doing the cybersex thing, and then meeting irl, without your informed consent? Was it just sprung on you, and you felt you had no choice but to accept it? Why?

I understand you want to label all this, and that's fine if you want to put it into some kind of category. I call it "cheating in plain sight."

Why is it fair she gets to go away every other weekend, leaving you home with being responsible for the kids and all the household stuff, while she's off having NRE lalas, dates, uninterrupted conversations, exciting new person sex, etc.? Is she just now keeping your around for a warm bed and babysitting?

You don't have to answer all this right away. Just some things to think about. Has your counselor been any help? Do they understand Open relationships or polyamory?

Magdlyn,
Yes, you are correct in some of your questions/assumptions. My partner and I are both female. And in some ways, she did somewhat go and start seeing someone without my knowledge, but in other ways no. She did not meet this person online, and she did talk to me and let me know she had met someone, and developed a lot of feelings and a deep emotional connection to them, before any of the weekend visits and physical intimacy began. She did sit me down to tell me about all of this, what she wanted to develop with this new person, and what she ideally wanted to have continue with me. She also told me she would pursue this new relationship no matter what, even if I decided I could not do it. So in some ways it was all sprung on me, and at times I have felt I have had no choice but to accept it, but I also know I am choosing to continue on with the relationship I do have with my partner (whatever it may be), because I genuinely do want to make it work, in a way that all of our needs are being met.
I know it's not fair that she gets to go away every other weekend, be with someone else and not have the responsabilites of being a parent, experience NRE, etc. etc. But I also know it has not been fair that I have not been able to give her the things she wanted, needed, and expected out of a marriage partner (deep emotional intimacy and physical intimacy). She wants, needs and deserves those things. Our relationship history is extremely complex (as are all relationships, I know), and there is so much good between us, but so many issues. So maybe this situation we are in is, for the moment, the best way to meet all of our needs. Maybe I am just naive.
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with calling it poly, but I wouldn't be happy living like that. It would be one thing if you specifically WANTED an asexual relationship with your wife, but to see her enjoying the kind of connection you want with someone else, while you still want that with her? That sounds like torture to me.

You need to decide what works best for yourself.
 
I'm sorry you struggle. :(

And in some ways, she did somewhat go and start seeing someone without my knowledge, but in other ways no. She did not meet this person online, and she did talk to me and let me know she had met someone, and developed a lot of feelings and a deep emotional connection to them, before any of the weekend visits and physical intimay began. She did sit me down to tell me about all of this, what she wanted to develop with this new person, and what she ideally wanted to have continue with me. She also told me she would pursue this new relationship no matter what, even if I decided I could not do it. So in some ways it was all sprung on me,

It sounds like she sprung it on you, along with “I want to stay with you, but I'm gonna keep dating whether you want to stay or not.”

Kinda rough, but I guess at least it's putting it on the table plain.

*I am just struggling with this shift in my relationship with my partner, and feel lonely because there is no one in my immediate circle of family/friends who truly understands it. Plus my partner isn’t really comfortable with words like polyamory and open marriage, so in a lot of
ways that makes me feel even more lost too. (I apologize, I know I am one of those people who needs labels and words to help define things, even
Though I know that may be wrong).

I don't get the hesitation with labels. The “old deal” changed. So what's this “new deal” she wants you to think about signing up for?

People need to have words to talk about things. It's not wrong to use them. Might have to calibrate what those words mean to each person, but trying to talk about a nebulous cloud thing... that's not helpful.

To me it sounds like she wants to change to open marriage, and she wants to be involved with both of you, so some sort of a V.

Maybe that's close enough of a label to work with so you can talk? :confused:

Do YOU want to be doing open marriage in a V?

Or is this a "soft exit" thing? Your partner really doesn't want to be doing poly or open marriage. But she's not ready/willing to talk divorce. So this unlabeled fuzzy space is the soft exit from this marriage to a new relationship?

This shift is also not something i ideally would have wanted, but I am trying my best to work through this all to make sure both my and my partners needs are being met.

Doesn't sound like you want to be doing it. So... could speak plain. That you don't want to do it like this. What's stopping you from being honest about how you feel? :confused:

I don’t know if it’s something I can sustain, if In the end all my own needs will be met, but it is all something that is worth me trying to work with because what i do have with partner is so vitally important to me at this point in my life, that I can’t just give it all up.

You don't have to give it all up. You could though, give up the parts that don't work. You can still be close, you can still be friends, you can still be co-parents, etc.

Doesn’t make it any less hard at times though.

Understandable. This whole thing sounds painful. :(

So in some ways it was all sprung on me, and at times I have felt I have had no choice but to accept it, but I also know I am choosing to continue on with the relationship I do have with my partner (whatever it may be), because I genuinely do want to make it work, in a way that all of our needs are being met.

What ARE you present needs? You do not actually say.

And "whatever it may be" -- what relationship shapes ARE you willing do to? If you are not crazy about "an open marriage V" thing?

You do have a voice in this. You do not have to accept whatever she says. Your consent to participate in things belongs to YOU.

But I also know it has not been fair that I have not been able to give her the things she wanted, needed, and expected out of a marriage partner (deep emotional intimacy and physical intimacy). She wants, needs and deserves those things.

If these are things she wants from a marriage partner, and you cannot meet them, why are you the marriage partner? :confused:

I'm not trying to be mean here... I'm trying to understand. Sometimes people date. There's initial compatibility but then it turns out there isn't deep compatibility. That's nobody's fault.

The way you write you sound like you are gonna do stuff you don't really want to do because you feel guilty about "not being enough for her" or something. Is that happening here?

Our relationship history is extremely complex (as are all relationships, I know), and there is so much good between us, but so many issues. So maybe this situation we are in is, for the moment, the best way to meet all of our needs. Maybe I am just naive.

What ARE the needs? :confused: Maybe they can be met another way.

I'm wondering if a better relationship shape for you guys that meets needs on both sides might be “good exes and friends who coparent” rather than “find ways to endure wonky marriage so we don't have to end it?"

Again, I'm not trying to be mean here. I'm trying to understand this situation. I could be wrong but it's sounding a lot like “save the marriage! Keep it going no matter what!” to me.

When keeping it going is causing both of you to bend into pretzels a bit. :(

You don't really want to be doing this, but sound like you are gonna from guilt that you cannot be the marriage partner she wants. Rather than plain break up because you cannot be the marriage partner she wants. :confused:

And she's not getting the marriage partner she wants, but rather than plain break up she's gonna just start dating other people and... expect you to lump it? :confused:

Galagirl
 
I'm not sure if hidewayprincess will be back. But I still wonder about the evolution of her relationship with her wife.

Princess, you said "for a myriad of reasons, including your mental health" over the years, '"deep" emotional connection, and all sexual connection, has been lost.

But now you wish for deeper connections. Emotional and sexual, I assume? Hence the couples' therapy.

But your wife, despite therapy, seems to be saying, it's "too little, too late." She's going elsewhere for her deep emotional and sexual intimacy.

Of course, she may feel it's deeper, better, with the new person, because NRE lalas put rose colored glasses on us. Something that seems deep and connecting in the first few months to a year, can fade away when the hormonal rush of NRE ends. And it always ends.

GG asked you what your needs are. Do you now want "deep" emotional connection with your wife again (assuming you once had this "depth")? Do you now want regular sex again? Are you mentally/emotionally ready for emotional depth and regular sex? Have you had individual therapy and done work to be a more available partner? And it might be relevant: has your wife had individual therapy? It takes two to tango. She's half this equation. You don't have to bear all the responsibility and subsequent guilt or shame.

Even if you are now a more stable, trustworthy, healthier person all around, you said there was a myriad of reasons depth and sex stopped with your wife. We don't know what these reasons are. You don't have to tell us, but telling us could help us provide proper feedback/advice. Are they still in effect?

It seems your wife took the easy way out. She is moving on to a more enjoyable relationship with a new person. (Which may or may not en up being a long term relationship, but that's besides the point.) She is also having the fun of no responsibilities every other weekend. No kids, no chores, no housecleaning and home maintenance and all the things couples get caught up on, on weekends. Is this fair? Do you deserve a more committed partner? Especially now that you seem to feel healthy enough to be able to have and offer emotional depth and regular sex to a partner?

It takes time to get used to the idea of how we can drift apart from a beloved partner. Everything in popular culture makes us crave, and even expect, til death do we part; happily ever after. Maybe our own parents had long-lasting happy (or unhappy but endured) marriages. But the fact is, people grow and change, relationships change, people split up. Even if they still love each other, there might be rifts that never heal, damage that leaves uncomfortable scars, residual anger and resentment. I'm speaking from experience. I was with one man monogamously for over 30 years, and chose to end it.

As GG was implying, we have been taught to put "keep (monogamous, or even cheating) relationship going no matter the cost" ahead of "personal individual health and satisfaction." Divorce however, has become commonplace, as the institution of mono marriage is just one choice we now have.
 
"I don't get the hesitation with labels. The “old deal” changed. So what's this “new deal” she wants you to think about signing up for? "

My experience with this stance has been largely second hand with people who have "opened" a relationship to meet a core need not offered in the established relationship. Yes, usually sex. The hesitation is because "open" or "polyamory" indicates a 2 sided deal where both people are entitled to seek new partners. However, if the person with the unmet need is only considering non-monogamy to meet said need, it doesn't seem logical (to them) that their partner who doesn't have this need or maybe is incapable of meeting that need with anyone gets to also have other relationships.

Of course, opening a relationship without fully subscribing to a wider philosophy around ethical non-monogamy is usually problematic. Especially if you're opening it just to meet a core need that isn't avaliable in an established relationship. That's always a slow transition to a new monogamous relationship in my experience.
 
I'm not sure if hidewayprincess will be back. But I still wonder about the evolution of her relationship with her wife.

Princess, you said "for a myriad of reasons, including your mental health" over the years, '"deep" emotional connection, and all sexual connection, has been lost.

But now you wish for deeper connections. Emotional and sexual, I assume? Hence the couples' therapy.

But your wife, despite therapy, seems to be saying, it's "too little, too late." She's going elsewhere for her deep emotional and sexual intimacy.

Of course, she may feel it's deeper, better, with the new person, because NRE lalas put rose colored glasses on us. Something that seems deep and connecting in the first few months to a year, can fade away when the hormonal rush of NRE ends. And it always ends.

GG asked you what your needs are. Do you now want "deep" emotional connection with your wife again (assuming you once had this "depth")? Do you now want regular sex again? Are you mentally/emotionally ready for emotional depth and regular sex? Have you had individual therapy and done work to be a more available partner? And it might be relevant: has your wife had individual therapy? It takes two to tango. She's half this equation. You don't have to bear all the responsibility and subsequent guilt or shame.

Even if you are now a more stable, trustworthy, healthier person all around, you said there was a myriad of reasons depth and sex stopped with your wife. We don't know what these reasons are. You don't have to tell us, but telling us could help us provide proper feedback/advice. Are they still in effect?

It seems your wife took the easy way out. She is moving on to a more enjoyable relationship with a new person. (Which may or may not en up being a long term relationship, but that's besides the point.) She is also having the fun of no responsibilities every other weekend. No kids, no chores, no housecleaning and home maintenance and all the things couples get caught up on, on weekends. Is this fair? Do you deserve a more committed partner? Especially now that you seem to feel healthy enough to be able to have and offer emotional depth and regular sex to a partner?

It takes time to get used to the idea of how we can drift apart from a beloved partner. Everything in popular culture makes us crave, and even expect, til death do we part; happily ever after. Maybe our own parents had long-lasting happy (or unhappy but endured) marriages. But the fact is, people grow and change, relationships change, people split up. Even if they still love each other, there might be rifts that never heal, damage that leaves uncomfortable scars, residual anger and resentment. I'm speaking from experience. I was with one man monogamously for over 30 years, and chose to end it.

As GG was implying, we have been taught to put "keep (monogamous, or even cheating) relationship going no matter the cost" ahead of "personal individual health and satisfaction." Divorce however, has become commonplace, as the institution of mono marriage is just one choice we now have.

I'm still around somewhat, was away for a while for holidays though. I appreciate everyones thoughts and responses. Has given me a lot to think about.
The evolution of my relationship with my wife has been interesting. We were in a somewhat similar situation very early on in our relationship (but then it was pretty much her cheating on me, followed by a secretive year-long emotional affair). That was all something that hurt me very deeply, to which my partner never fully acknowledged, and we both never directly dealt with (although it obviously left me with a lot of anger, resentment, trust issues, etc, with her, which I am sure have contributed to many of the reasons why I have become more closed off to her emotionally and physically over the years).
Yes my wife is basically saying that even if I demonstrated the deep emotional/physical/romantic intimacy that she needs, she would not be able to recognize or feel it, because she is too shut down from that with me now. But she also admits that if those feelings were to somehow come up for her, she would not deny them in any way.
I am not sure what my needs are. My needs are to continue this (mostly) happy existence of running a household and raising a family together. To continue experiencing and exploring life with my partner, both as parents to our children, but also just with eachother. I want love, companionship, fun, comfort, a "partner in crime" in life, if that makes sense at all. And I do want deeper emotional and physical connection. But I know I am not at the point of being able to give/receive that at this moment, although I am finally beginning to work on that all (a lot of childhood trauma issues). I am in individual therapy, and my partner is as well. It was actually my partners therapist who brought up the idea of polyamory to her a few years ago, because she knew how much my partner struggled with not being able to get all of her needs met with me.
Yes in a lot of ways my wife is getting to take an easy way out, she is getting to have her cake and eat it too, is being selfish, etc. She gets to go away every other weekend and forget all her responsibilities, leave me for all the childcare, chores, everything (although traditionally I have been the one to take care of 95% of that stuff anyway). But it also has not been fair at all that I have not been able to meet her very valid needs. So maybe this set-up is the "better" option at this point in time? I enjoy being the primary caregiver to the children, doing all the cooking, cleaning, chores, etc. I am also an introvert and enjoy my time alone. So maybe for now this is the best of both worlds? I am not sure where any of this will take us, and I think that is what I am most fearful of, since I feel the need to plan for the future at all times, and I feel as if that cannot be done anymore.
I don't know if my partner and I have grown and changed too much over time, with too many rifts for us to be able to heal from. But I also know that we both want so many of the same things as well, and she still admits I meet so many of her needs, and she wants to continue "this life" with me.
I would just be easier for me, or so I feel, if we could agree upon common language to explain our change in relationship/situation.
 
Just curious, what does your wife call your change in relationship/situation?

I think it is good that both of you are in therapy, it seems like you have a really complicated relationship with your wife, a lot of baggage from the past, you both need expert help unpacking it. Have you thought about doing couple's therapy?

Hopefully we can continue to help.
 
Just curious, what does your wife call your change in relationship/situation?

I think it is good that both of you are in therapy, it seems like you have a really complicated relationship with your wife, a lot of baggage from the past, you both need expert help unpacking it. Have you thought about doing couple's therapy?

Hopefully we can continue to help.

She doesn’t have words for it, she prefers to describe the situation to others. She also doesn’t care if others (or myself) refer to it as poly. She tells others (close friends), she is in a relationship with another person (let’s call her K), and that she is continuing to live with me, raise our children with me, and continue the same connection and love with me she has had over the past many years. She has not told her family yet, as she is fearful of their judgement. She has a lot of fear of words/labels, as she is afraid others will judge her and assume she is just “sleeping around” with lots of people. She also says that goes against her morals. I don’t know.
We are in couples therapy. The couples therapist is careful not to label this as polyamory, as she knows my partners feelings. But she will often make comparisons to other couples she works with who are polyamorous.
Maybe I am still just grasping at straws to try to hold on to something that isn’t really there anymore. But my partner and I have so much love and work so well together and spend 75% of our time together, running a household, raising kids, experiencing life together, celebrating holidays/family moments, going on and planning vacations (big and small, sting and without our kids). That to me is so much of what a “marriage” is. I don’t know.
 
I would just be easier for me, or so I feel, if we could agree upon common language to explain our change in relationship/situation.

She also doesn’t care if others (or myself) refer to it as poly.

If she doesn't care, why not just call it a "poly V" or simply "a V?" Like "good enough term for now, we can fine tune it later as we go along."

Could that approach help you? :confused:

Over time, esp since you both are in therapy, perhaps your partner will come to lay her fear of words/labels to rest and stop being afraid others will judge her and assume she is just “sleeping around” with lots of people.

Galagirl
 
She gets to go away every other weekend and forget all her responsibilities, leave me for all the childcare, chores, everything (although traditionally I have been the one to take care of 95% of that stuff anyway).
This seems to be a point of resentment and something you could negotiate on. You don't have another relationship, but maybe you also need her to help out so that you can get child-free weekends/evenings. You can have your own hobbies, friends and life after all. If she can't watch, maybe you want her to pay for childcare or a cleaning lady.
Polyamorous or not, there needs to be some balance in the responsibilities, and if the balance has changed abruptly and unfairly, that's no good.

Do take the time to figure out what you need by trial and error, by making changes and taking on new stuff. This is critical for your mental health.
 
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