Question: In poly-mono relationships....

I'm truly glad you have not taken offense to anything of my questions or comments because that is not my intention. As you know getting the full picture from short sentences is hard.

I think I now understand how maca could have wound up dead... I hope you have talked to a professional for that as well.

Don't get the opp in principal. Seem unfair or unbalanced. Was that before the poly journey ? GG a man right?

Who's got the desire to get revenge?

glad you found something funny.... and that's how it feels sometime.

Take care and good luck D

Yes, I know all about how easily one can be misunderstood in real life, much less online. ;) I have it down to a fine art! I'm actually enjoying our conversation.

There's so much more of course to every story-more of my side, more of his side, more of their side, more of our side etc. It it what it is.

I've spent quite a fair share of time in therapy and continue to work on things using the principals I learned there. :) My goal in life is to be the best version of myself possible, and let me tell you what-that requires daily effort!

I don't agree with "rules" that create unbalance in a relationship-in either direction. That is what happens with an affair, it creates unbalance, because of the lie. If the lie weren't there, having sex with another person may not create that lack of balance, but if a lie is there-it sure as hell does.

Yes, that was all before the poly, before the affair as well.
Yes, GG is a man. :)
I am bi-but, the woman who can melt my heart... well, there was one, but she is gone. There was another who might be able to, but she's too busy to find out.

I've had desire for revenge before, though not with Maca. I'm SURE he had a desire for revenge at some point over the whole disaster trainwreck of our relationship. But, at this point, I don't think that anyone here does. :)
(well, except maybe my daughter, against her unborn child, cause he keeps kicking and twisting etc)

You take care too! Look forward to talking with you more. :) Like conversating with people who can make me think!
 
(well, except maybe my daughter, against her unborn child, cause he keeps kicking and twisting etc)

She may have to wait a few years or so. I think every parent gets their revenge, but not until they become grandparents. My parents are certainly getting their revenge.:p

Sorry, completely off topic.
 
Wow, LR, I think the three of you should become poster children for polyfidelity. I mean, so much for the saying 'when the going gets tough, the poly get the hell outta here'. I can't imagine anyone hearing your story and saying that people go poly just because they don't want to deal with anything unpleasant in their relationships.
 
LR
thanks for the kind words I enjoy talking with you also.

I completely understand your remark about becoming the best "you"... you can be. I started this a few yrs ago as a result of marriage counseling. I really couldn't wait for or expect any change from my wife. And after doing all the assigned reading and lots of self discovery on what made me feel better my perspective or attitude changed. As a result lots things changed for the better. I'm sure you have seen this shift as well. I must admit I'm not as religious about it as you....daily...but I try to be mindful of that goal often.

Your interest in poly has been there for a long time.... exploring the possibility of women and the resulting reason for the opp. When you posted that I thought you were saying he was going out and having partners but you could only enjoy women..... and now I can't understand how I could have got that picture.... I'm blaming it on my lens...

Now I do understand the concept of the opp. Not sure I agree with it but I get it. I just think if you remove gender from the equation sex is sex.

Do you have a green light to explore those female relationships or is that something that has to be hashed out with the team? In the bigger tribes or constellations or whatever they are called I see it as that scene in animal house where there's a picture up on the screen and everyone gets to vote and throw stuff at image they disapprove of.


SN

where ya been? ....Thanks again for the explanation of your user name..
I did post a couple of comments/questions on the "primary" thread used the SN moniker so you may have missed it.

As for what blackunicorn said about being poster children. Definitely the poster children for sticking it and trying to solve the hard problems. You should all be commended for that. Today commitments are more or less disposable you should be proud of that.
Take care D
 
SN
where ya been? ....Thanks again for the explanation of your user name..
I did post a couple of comments/questions on the "primary" thread used the SN moniker so you may have missed it.

Sorry, I did see it, but forgot to go back and reply, when I had access to a real computer and not just my phone. All taken care of.:D
 
Redepper thanks...

So outside of core understanding your relationship would change and from what you said may suffer. What you have described was/is the situation of most of us who have had mono relationships for yrs and yrs then out of the blue this need has been discovered. The text messages would start to decrease, phone calls would become less frequent and more fact or informational. Meaning you need to pick up this or so and so called or I'm running late wont be home at the usual time. Focus is over as you knew it. It becomes a simple math problem..... time divided by (x) X= number of partners.

A few weeks back mono posted something along the lines of pulling back and acting in a more secondary role....he got many replies....very few actual responded to his question. Most wanted to discuss the boundaries that the two of you agree to or his reasons for the boundary...Nobody thought to explore if he was to 2 or 3 outside relationships. I now think maybe that was the actual question. I saw his question through the lens that I was wearing at that moment in time. Seeing it as a camping issue or being in a space that makes him uncomfortable. Lets think if mono brought some hot blond who has her own Harley to the camping trip??? And yes they are out there "hot single bikers" and yes they have teeth. I actually know one and she is a corporate lawyer... the only down side is she's a lawyer.

You suggested that pn doesn't handle NRE very well and he drops the ball when it comes to his responsibility. I gather you are talking about family obligations and or time with your son. NOT so much his time and attention to you.
If Mono brought a woman camping I would be more threatened if she were a lawyer ;) but I wouldn't really feel threatened by her relationship with him... just my own stuff about me and her being a lawyer and owning a bike. JEALOUS on a couple of counts.

I don't want to be a lawyer, but I often think I haven't lived my full potential because I got no help with my learning disability and because I didn't really know what to do with myself that would make any money... I'm an Art Therapist by trade... that's what I went to school for. NO money in that.

I would be jealous of the bike too. Kinda a dream to go on a long ride on my own Harley somewhere with Mono and a bunch of others. PN rolls his eyes at the thought. No interest. :rolleyes:

I take it you are asking because you want to know what I would think if Mono were to fall in love with another woman? Well I would be very concerned because he would leave me if that were the case. It would mean we are over.

He has given me a list of what to look for if we are over in his eyes and I pay very close attention. I saw some signs after I broke my boundary with Leo. I was very fearful that there was no coming back from that. It really helped to know the signs as he is not forth coming with information in situations like that.

As to PN in his NRE, yes, no responsibility for family or me... not good with the time thing... always in lala land somewhere, even if he is standing right there. Annoying as hell and after a time, just not okay. I get that one needs a bit of that. I have compersion for that; but we are talking constant! :p
 
RP
I was thinking of this as a purely mental exercise. How would the dynamics change....I wasn't thinking you would be threaten by any of it. but if it makes you feel better take the lawyer part out.... he's way to smart to fall for a lawyer anyway.

What is an art therapist? Sounds fun sorry about the money. Are you having fun and or enjoying your job now? I was in an industry in which I made a ridiculous amount money very high stress and I would characterize as soulless. I now build things way more rewarding but less money. What I started out to be and where in am today are so wildly apart you wouldn't believe it.

So PN doesn't believe you will do it "the Harley thing" or thinks is stupid or frivolous or unappealing for him.

I wasn't asking what you would think if mono fell in love...I was interested in if you ever plugged in multiple partners from the other prospective....just as mental game. You see I have often asked myself if I was to do this behavior or say that to my wife I wonder what would be the reaction. As you said time, attention, and focus is what you have from mono now and if he took a more secondary roll or even had what you have with leo how would that change your dynamic. What would happen if mono cross similar boundary ....what would be your reaction if any? Again just a mental game.

Does or has PN treated your time with him as something he should do out of fairness or does he assume with all the other things and partners he will not be missed by you? I can see slighting your son as huge problem....I know in my situation it is.

Thanks D
 
What would happen if mono cross similar boundary ....what would be your reaction if any? D

Hi my friend,

She wouldn't have to worry about her reaction..I'd dump myself from the relationship. I hold myself to a a very high standard. I've made mistakes and hurt people very badly...but I learned from them. Repeating those mistakes seems pathological to me.

RP has a Masters in Art Therapy. She is way more than a pretty face ;)
 
hi mono.... thanks

Yes I know what your saying...your not getting in the spirit of the mental game.

Part of why I started this thread was an exploration of how our (wife /myself) dynamic will change if/when my focus is no longer on her. Because of circumstance of your dynamic is very relate-able. As I've plugged in different scenarios to imagine all the possible outcomes.....granted this is all imagination so I don't hold it up as fact but I do think you can get close. This isn't much different than creating a computer model and plugging in different players and scenarios....except as you know I'm not that good with computers so I have to do it in my head.

Right now or should I say up until recently my wife has enjoyed and wanted primary status for each other.... her words... most likely spoken as to give me comfort or something. So if in this dynamic that changes how will every thing else be effected. And I realize in this type of thing I'm only going to see the big glaring things and lots of little things are going to slip by.

I'm not sure if she really understands how this is going to change her world....or maybe she doesn't care and is looking for change. I'm looking farther down field I think. Blame it on NRE... great t-shirt idea... you guy could wear them at your poly events.... might be funny.

Bottom line I think I was asking because if being the poly member and enjoying the focus of the mono how would that relationship change and how would the dynamic change if other partners or relationships evolve from the mono making things completely poly.

One of my sticking points has been time and focus.... By RP's own description your time, focus, and attention is on her. I may have already wrote this but what she described is how a lot of us use to feel and live. She (RP) summarized what I had and how I felt. Out side the labels...human to human its the same.... and she really enjoys that...wow me too. And so does my wife.

I hope you can see my intention..... thanks D
 
Okay so what if, hypothetically, Mono decided he was in love with another woman and wanted to share his time with her and me. I would have to adjust the time we spend together I think a bit, he has a lot of his own time, so he might want less time with me in order to accommodate her and her needs as well as his own. That would be hard to do as I love the time we have together, but I would hope I would be able to feel the pain of that and adjust over time.

I would find it hard to think of them together and would make every attempt to get to know her as a metamour in order to have those feelings elevated as much as I can. I'm sure there would be some crying and whining as my primary queen roll is dismantled and I need to make way for another... I would think I would be primary for a time, but in time another person merges and becomes part of a whole and I would hope that I would be willing to welcome her. That can be difficult if its someone I don't get along with... but its not up to me what he would do with his life and if I want a relationship with him and our own time, drama a trouble free, I would work towards that....

And oh ya. I would make damned sure that I would be able to date and have sex with anyone that I feel is a good fit to my life... with discussion from all my loves of course. The compromised boundaries would move and would need adjusting also.

hope I am giving some insight... I'm not sure why you want to know. But as I have one partner that has dated others, I would think it wouldn't be too much different in theory. These things are not the same in reality though most of the time.
 
What is an art therapist? Sounds fun sorry about the money. Are you having fun and or enjoying your job now?

So PN doesn't believe you will do it "the Harley thing" or thinks is stupid or frivolous or unappealing for him.

Does or has PN treated your time with him as something he should do out of fairness or does he assume with all the other things and partners he will not be missed by you? I can see slighting your son as huge problem....I know in my situation it is.
Art therapy is healing through art and its unconscious symbology through a mixture of art making and psychotherapy. I am an artist and therapist essentially and the two are mixed in order to help people with their problems. :)

PN is not a man who lives on the edge. The edge for him is reading the local news paper when my dad brings it over. Riding a bike is just not something he gets... he drives 10 kms UNDER the speed limit whenever he can. Drives me crazy. Mono and I are totally opposite. Hurray for poly... I get to do these things with Mono and do other things with PN or can leave him to mull over his books... I come all smiley faced from what I am doing and he is all smiley faced because he got to do what he wanted... it all works :)

Yes PN has treated our time together as something he should do out of fairness. I do that too sometimes when I am in NRE, I need transition time between one and the other and after that make a decision with myself that I need to shove the NRE feelings aside, and do. They are my personal little piece of heaven to be brought out when I am with the person. PN struggles with that and is resentful and vacant sometimes. It takes practice. I have had LOTS of practice... years in fact. PN hasn't. That is just how it has gone for him. He gets what he is doing, he just needs practice and I am patient when it comes up and talk him through it a lot of the time. I have tried telling him to go do his own thing during family time, but it makes no difference, he just hangs around in lala land. He might as well do that with us around and we just dance around him... heh. It's cute, but annoying, as I said. I didn't think that at the time though!
 
RedPepper Thanks so much fro you reply.

It is very interesting....your thoughts and feelings line up with a lot of us mono's. The label thing may not work....poly ...mono. Maybe it should be people having a poly experience and people having a mono experience. Because you identify as poly and have several relationships doesn't change the automatic human responses to these types of situations. Its only because you love and enjoy this dynamic that you are willing to use every behavior modification tool to help you work through the possible pain and unpleasant drama.
I was surprised that you would be bothered by the mental images of intimate contact. I'm surprised because of the number of yrs in the trench's and because of the number of on going relationships.

You said you were not sure why I wanted to know? I'm confused as to what your unsure of specifically. I guess I was looking for mind set...emotional responses to similar situations....do poly partners ever project their situation or relationships onto their mono partners. Meaning has my wife ever thought what things would look like if I started dating multiple women.... very real possibility.

In my wife's case I think no ... but if forced she would see it as exactly as what she has constructed ....which may or may not be what I would choose for myself.

In my situation I've pointed out exactly where my problems are obligatory dates/time, basic time management, etc. all pretty common stuff. I've been vocal about such concerns and there effects but I don't think I've gotten the message across. So I was thinking perhaps a different tack.

Your career sounds fascinating. Can you do forensic art therapy on the old masters? Or is it something where you need to interview the person? who are candidates for such therapy? Not all surprising that the word therapist is used concerning you or your work. :) :D

Thanks again D
 
Hi dinged. I'm sensing you and your wife don't communicate much. Why not ask her, hypothetically, how she would feel? Asking such questions is a good way of evoking empathy.

Art therapists don't analyse, so ya, need to work WITH ones clients ;)
 
Last edited:
Thanks RP

You are absolutely right the communication has stalled for the most part. I think she didn't have good answers to my questions or comments which in turn frustrated her a great deal which most always deteriorated into tears....on her part. I was usually trying to figure out what exactly she said or meant. Sometimes I wish we had a stenographer to read back something where I got lost.

The reasons for my questions is to gain perspective in order to have a conversation with my wife. Example: If I was to find that most poly folks in relationships with mono's really don't enjoy being the center of that persons focus, attention etc. and actually find it burdensome. That would definitely impact my conversation and questions to her. There would be no empathy at all.

Most of the things I learn here have or will be used in some way or another in conversations with my wife. I really appreciate the insight I've gained.

After suggesting that I may want to opt out of the "primary role" it sort of created a communications vacuum. I don't need the constant talks for reassurance sake. I also think she is reluctant to start conversations along those lines because she is unsure of the out come....doesn't want to make it worst so to speak.

I have asked hypothetical questions to her several times and she usually wants to answer quickly and briefly and change the subject as fast as possible. Its never discussion of much depth. I'm not sure if that's avoidance or a complete lack of empathy.

Thanks for the input D

P.S. I assume you have an extensive knowledge of art history is there one of those "masters" who would be of interest to interview from the perspective of an art therapist..... time machine is ready.
 
I wasn't asking what you would think if mono fell in love...I was interested in if you ever plugged in multiple partners from the other prospective....just as mental game.

I do. :)
I thought long and hard before I handed my initial letter to Maca, because I knew-if he "accepted", it meant me accepting that he may decide to have other women
AND
that he may have a different way of doing things than I do (which he does).
I had to accept that if he was willing to accept me having a fidelitious relationship that included GG (I don't consider myself open to other lovers besides these two); I had to accept that he may want something that wasn't "poly-fi".

Dinged-

I think that your wife hasn't a foggy clue what "primary" means. By ANY definition I've read. Your descriptions of her behavior do not support the idea of honest, much less the respect of treating you as a primary. Even accepting that there could be more than ONE primary, she's not respecting you as a primary at all.
 
LR
thanks for the reply...

How close to reality did your hypothetical come.... or rather how horribly off you were?? Any factors you didn't take into account? You said Maca could do things different....different in approach or style or substantially different like having 3-4 partners all at once...or something similar to that.

My wife's clueless on many topic right now....agreed. I think she was saying those things to help me feel better and that's when I got the notion of removing myself from that role. I think the word love gets thrown around a lot and it's like the word snow. The Eskimo's have words in the double digit to describe white frozen precipitation. It might be helpful if love had a few more.

The assumption is that "primary" is something to strive for or is more rewarding or something.

What if in a V you have equal secondary's?

Thanks LR
 
Dinged, it seems you (or your wife perhaps) are very focused on the labels or titles that each person in a poly relationship has, but in reality that's not important. I would venture to guess that this focus is a convenient distraction that enables you to avoid examining deeper issues in your relationship. What's really important is the communication and quality of relating. Are you able to ask for your needs to be met? Does your partner, no matter what "status," strive to treat you respectfully and with love, caring, and kindness? Do each of you take care of yourselves while also looking out for the other? Are you really trying to be partners in support of each other or just angling for the best defensive maneuver against each other?

I've been reading your threads and from what I recall, there is a lot of unresolved anger, hurt, and confusion between the two of you. I would gently suggest you start healing all of those painful feelings in some way (therapy?) before assigning roles and trying to put your relationship into some regimented category that you think should be the right way to do polyamory. I wish you well. Have you thought about asking your wife to also come here, read your posts, and contribute her side of the story?




Edit: Okay, I saw another recent post of yours on one of your other threads and it looks like you're trying to address important, emotional issues by planning a discussion with your wife. Having so many threads on a similar vein can get a little confusing and hard to keep up with. Maybe ask to have some of them merged? Just a suggestion. Anyway, yeah, I think the labels and status stuff is just not necessary to focus on. I hope your talk with your wife this weekend goes well, but if she craps out on talking with you again, that is another red flag.
 
Last edited:
How close to reality did your hypothetical come.... or rather how horribly off you were?? Any factors you didn't take into account? You said Maca could do things different....different in approach or style or substantially different like having 3-4 partners all at once...or something similar to that.
He's a "chaser" kind of guy, where as I'm not. I've had some sort of relationship with GG for 18 years and I'm not interested in looking for anyone new. Maca... he tends to be more interested in the sexual nature of a relationship, where as I'm more interestd in the bonding, spirituality and permanence of a relationship. That creates the scenario where he would be ok with having a fuck buddy-but I am certainly not. He has a "friend with benefits" and has opened himself to the possibility with other women in different ways.. Just not my thing.
Really, my only two "rules" that "restrict" his actions/behavior in this are the following:
1. protection with all other partners every time AND they and he have to be checked for STD's regularly (I will be as well) or he won't be having sex with me.
2. don't bring your "friends" to meet the kids until they are established as long term parts of your life.

It's ok for him to have temporary lovers, it's not ok to drag them through the kids lives. Now, his FWB has met two of the kids (oldest and youngest) and is certainly free to meet the other two (opportunity hasn't arisen yet). Because they've established that she wants to remain friends forever, regardless of the sexual dynamic.

My wife's clueless on many topic right now....agreed. I think she was saying those things to help me feel better and that's when I got the notion of removing myself from that role.
It's silly for people to use words without truly considering their meaning. I KNOW, it happens all of the time, but it's still silly.
My love for Maca and my love for GG is equally deep and equally strong. There's a WHOLE THREAD on here somewhere that i'm flipping out over GG not wanting to rise to being an equal "primary" with Maca. But, the bottom line is, that THEY are comfortable with GG being secondary to GG and my love needn't change to meet that "standard" nor does that standard need to rise to meet my "love".
Your wife needs to really stop and consider what the hell she wants and what she's going to do to manage it. Because if our actions and our words don't agree, it's our actions we'll be judged on.


I think the word love gets thrown around a lot and it's like the word snow. The Eskimo's have words in the double digit to describe white frozen precipitation. It might be helpful if love had a few more.
NO SHIT!
I live in Alaska. All I can say is NO SHIT!


The assumption is that "primary" is something to strive for or is more rewarding or something.
That is the assumption, but I think it's a faulty one. ;) I learned that from Mono and GG.

What if in a V you have equal secondary's?

hehe, great question. I don't know-but I think it wouldnt be a bad thing!
 
I think also-that there are always factors that haven't been taken into account. Certainly there was a big one for me which came up this January.

Maca's potential wanted to use our bedroom to be with him one night a week. In general theory-I couldn't care less about people using my bedroom. In fact his FWB has been with him in our bedroom and bed when I was out of state (not an issue) and many of our friends have used our room when we weren't here.

BUT-something I hadn't considered was, what if the person he's wanting to sleep with IS NOT a friend of mine? Am I still ok with them using my room?

In theory, sure, but in reality, my most precious belongings are in my room and before allowing a virtual stranger to use my room, I want those belongings removed, to ensure their safety. It's not a "sharing" issue, it's an issue of not knowing the person in order to know if I can trust them to respect my belongings.

I'm not talking about sexual things-I'm talking MY MAKE UP, MY CLOTHING, MY BOOKS, MY JEWELRY. Just things that matter to me, that are MINE.

This was a hell of a big issue which hadn't even occurred to me, because it hadn't occurred to me that someone who wasn't a friend would WANT to use my space. At first I felt like I HAD to say it was ok, because I already said it was ok with the FWB. But, ultimately I decided it wasn't ok and I said no (not before Maca had already said no) because this space is MY sanctuary first and foremost and if someone else is going to be present in it, they need to respect it as my santuary.
(this does go both ways, this is MACA's sanctuary first and foremost as well and anyone whose going to be present in it needs to respect it as such as well)
 
Back
Top