Why do things have to be so complex?

"Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty... I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well." --Theodore Roosevelt

I wouldn't be in relationships if I didn't have an understanding of that statement personally and had to live it personally since I was a child.. I have enjoyed every brutal stage of my life as much as the brilliant ones.
 
About the whole pain and difficulty thing. In the past I would have agreed with you, now I tend to think that if it's too hard it isn't meant to be. Everything that has ever been really painful and difficult for me was either wrong for me or I was making it harder than it had to be.
 
About the whole pain and difficulty thing. In the past I would have agreed with you, now I tend to think that if it's too hard it isn't meant to be. Everything that has ever been really painful and difficult for me was either wrong for me or I was making it harder than it had to be.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Then don't do "this"."
 
Poly is so simple -- love more than one. Why do we get so bent out of shape?

I think the primary cause of difficulty with love and relationships is insufficient self-love, which results in insufficient other-love, along with a great deal of fear of loss, frustration, hurt, anger, resentment, jealousy, etc.

It's obvious to me that the beginning of the chain is insufficient self-love. Most of us aren't much good at that. And that's where it all begins!
 
I think the primary cause of difficulty with love and relationships is insufficient self-love, which results in insufficient other-love, along with a great deal of fear of loss, frustration, hurt, anger, resentment, jealousy, etc.

It's obvious to me that the beginning of the chain is insufficient self-love. Most of us aren't much good at that. And that's where it all begins!

I am awesome at self loving :D... haha.. ok I couldn't resist sorry.. :eek:..

I would agree with your post for the record. :)
 
I'm with you Sage. I even go farther I think. I don't believe life should be a struggle.

What the? Life is fraught with difficulty and pain and lost connections.

I guess I am with Hemingway here. "Life isn't about getting what you want. Life is about doing what needs to be done joyfully and gracefully."

Also, from a commercial, "Life is dirty. Clean it up."
 
Captain Obvious told me to tell you's that the vast majority of life on THIS planet, both human and otherwise, have no choice as to whether or not life is a "struggle". In fact, I don't think the word "should" exists for most folks.

What planet do YOU live on?

Indeed, when I say things "should" be kept simple, at the beginning of this thread, what i meant was that there is ENOUGH struggle in life with things we don't really have a choice about, that it is silly to make it harder on ourselves by struggling with things we bring upon ourselves. We all have a CHOICE about whether or not to stay in bad relationships; why choose to?

It's funny, because on the secret FB group, someone just crawled up my butt with a "glass half empty" answer to something i said. as if pessimism is a NEGATIVE thing. I just love it when pathological optimists get irked by this sort of thing. it's so easy to do and so fun to watch.
 
I keep things simple..keeps me young and pretty damn happy. Just my philosophy :D I've had my share of struggle; most of it could have been avoided and would not have been missed.
 
I think it depends on where you start, too. Some of us start with a lot of disadvantages in one way or another and it takes a bit o' work to get through them.

But in general, yes. Why make things harder than they are? We have to deal with the things that are out of our control, why beat ourselves over the head with the things that are?
 
It's funny, because on the secret FB group, someone just crawled up my butt with a "glass half empty" answer to something i said. as if pessimism is a NEGATIVE thing. I just love it when pathological optimists get irked by this sort of thing. it's so easy to do and so fun to watch.

That was only because you lowered your standards.
 
I am awesome at self loving :D... haha.. ok I couldn't resist sorry.. :eek:..

Heh! I laughed hard when I realized you were talking about something which may or may not involve lubricant.:p
 
Agreed a lot of the world do have serious, seemingly unavoidable struggles but in the developed, supposedly peaceful nations a lot of pain is brought about by resistance to what is. Going with the flow and gratitude can go a long way to alleviating struggle. Remember the the serenity prayer'... accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.'
 
There's a difference between "difficult and worth it" and "impossible." Relationship-wise, a lot of times... actually, I'd go so far as to say most of the time, people try to "make it work" when they're just not compatible. The belief that "love conquers all" and all that. The truth is, love isn't enough most of the time. While romance is a synonym for love, it is also a synonym for fiction.
 
I like this thread. A lot of people are saying a lot of valid things here!!!

I agree with Sage. My healthy relationships are not difficult. The painful and difficult relationships I’ve been in did not last. For me, a lot of emotional pain in a relationship tends to be an indicator that something is amiss.

And River, it seems to me that along with self-love it’s important to have a basic sense of self-awareness. A foundation of self-awareness seems to go a long way when it comes to relating to others.

Very well said Minxxa!! There are real difficulties that we must deal with in life. Life can be difficult and we can’t always avoid pain and suffering. However, there is a lot of pain and suffering that is unnecessary……that people bring on themselves. Not really sure why, unless it just becomes a habit.

Sage- I love the serenity prayer!! I agree that surrendering is the key for me. Letting go and going with the flow!!

Hahaha……yes Xared. “making it work no matter what” doesn’t work in the long run. “in the name of love” let’s beat ourselves up….for some reason which I don’t get......

The key for me is knowing when to push forward and when to let go. When it comes to relationships, pleasure and pain can be good indicators. If I am experiencing more pleasure in a relationship, then it’s working for me. If I am experiencing more pain, then it isn’t really working for me.
 
And River, it seems to me that along with self-love it’s important to have a basic sense of self-awareness. A foundation of self-awareness seems to go a long way when it comes to relating to others.

True, indeed. And it helps a lot of this self-awarenss is not imploded, stuffed all up inside itself and overly self-involved. It helps if the self is both open to the wider world and properly self-contained. Self love does make other love more possible, proportionately. The more genuine self-love we have the more we can happily share love with others. And genuine self love does allow the self to open and lighten so that it is not "imploded," as described above.
 
I have been thinking of this thread lately because I'm beginning to reach my saturation point again with the same problems cropping up here all the time, the same questions, the amount of people who start off their posts saying their situation is unique yet we've seen their story here a gazillion times. I can't help it - I used to answer so many threads here, but lately I have no patience for most of them. I think I am becoming impatient in my own life, too. I don't like the way things are and need to make changes but feel frustrated at the enormity of the radical turn-around that is needed.

Just about anything I have seen asked or can imagine being asked on this forum can be answered with, "Treat others the way you would want to be treated, and don't settle for anything less than that for yourself."

Why do folks seem to think we and our situations are so "unique" that this does not apply, or that there could possibly be any more to it?

Treating ourselves and everyone around us with the same respect and loving kindness does seem to be the answer to most problems and issues. Now, how to implement that strategy...
 
How about this......Treat others the way they want to be treated and notice who is interested in understanding how you want to be treated and engaged in following through with it.
 
I have been thinking of this thread lately because I'm beginning to reach my saturation point again with the same problems cropping up here all the time, the same questions, the amount of people who start off their posts saying their situation is unique yet we've seen their story here a gazillion times. I can't help it - I used to answer so many threads here, but lately I have no patience for most of them. I think I am becoming impatient in my own life, too. I don't like the way things are and need to make changes but feel frustrated at the enormity of the radical turn-around that is needed.
I hear ya sister. I am losing my mind behind the scenes most days. Doesn't anyone read?! Look at other threads?!! At the very least stop and think that maybe they are not the only ones on the planet that have these issues??! AHHHHH! Drives me crazy. Still, we carry on right? Patience and persistence. We will change the world... :p;) one poly newbie at a time. :D

I need to think of a tags that encompasses every single thing that comes up so that I can direct people to the same threads as their own. That is a struggle.... I have been thinking on that for years now. :rolleyes:

You know what bugs me sometimes is I have seen what we repeat here over and over again in other peoples writings, on other groups and out of other peoples mouths and I remember the day when none of it existed. I can't tell you how many phrased I have seen come out of this site and become mainstream poly, yet I have never seen anyone refer to us in their writing or references. Some of them get money for the ads they post on their sites yet we don't get even a link! The amount of support and shared resources we produce for others for free, yet we don't get anything in return is mind boggling. Its very frustrating and makes me feel like this place is very under valued and under appreciated. Its hard to go on some days, yet I do and have done for years now... and likely will for more.

Again, I feel ya nycindie. I really do.
 
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