Broken hearted lost bf and losing marriage

I've been married for 22 years too, and have some experiences with polyamory that didn't cause any of these problems.

In fact, it was first my wife that fell in love with a younger guy some two years ago. I accepted that as long as it didn't affect me. This has developed into a little more than a friendship, and I've also become kind of friends with him. Thus, she handled this perfectly well, and it was all fine by me even if it might not have been ethical according to the typical rules. She talked a lot about him which kind of bothered my sometimes, but it was still ok.

Then since about a year ago I've been in love with a much younger girl. I didn't let this affect our relationship either, but I felt I couldn't tell her about it since she is kind of jealous. If anything, this has made me a lot happier, which has affected our relationship in a positive direction. Now I can also kind of handle when she talks about her guy by just thinking of my love. :)

I don't think it is fair to say that this and that need is not met by my partner, so I need to find somebody else. If you have been married for 22 years you have an obligation to talk about and sort out these things rather than looking for somebody else. I'm sure that none of us did any of this because our needs were not fulfilled. At least I did it because I wanted another connection, not because I needed something.
 
I've been married for 22 years too, and have some experiences with polyamory that didn't cause any of these problems.

In fact, it was first my wife that fell in love with a younger guy some two years ago. I accepted that as long as it didn't affect me. This has developed into a little more than a friendship, and I've also become kind of friends with him. Thus, she handled this perfectly well, and it was all fine by me even if it might not have been ethical according to the typical rules. She talked a lot about him which kind of bothered my sometimes, but it was still ok.

Then since about a year ago I've been in love with a much younger girl. I didn't let this affect our relationship either, but I felt I couldn't tell her about it since she is kind of jealous. If anything, this has made me a lot happier, which has affected our relationship in a positive direction. Now I can also kind of handle when she talks about her guy by just thinking of my love. :)

I don't think it is fair to say that this and that need is not met by my partner, so I need to find somebody else. If you have been married for 22 years you have an obligation to talk about and sort out these things rather than looking for somebody else. I'm sure that none of us did any of this because our needs were not fulfilled. At least I did it because I wanted another connection, not because I needed something.

rdos, the two colored sections seem discordant to me. Why does classifying something as a "want" instead of a "need" negate the obligation to talk to your spouse about your love-interest? (i.e. I wanted another connection vs. I needed another connection which my spouse could not provide.)
 
I think it might mean wanting the new connection person for just themselves. Not using that person as a bandaid to fix whatever in the existing relationship.

Galagirl
 
Seems to me like honesty and not deceiving your partner ought to be more important than whether you classify your additional desires as wants or needs.
 
I think it might mean wanting the new connection person for just themselves. Not using that person as a bandaid to fix whatever in the existing relationship.

Galagirl

Ok, I get that. In my opinion every relationship has to stand on its own merit. I, myself, have never gone out and "looked for" any relationship - I find myself IN relationships with good and interesting people because of who they are, not to fill some void.

BUT, rdos seems to be giving advise on how to have good relationships (i.e. not relying on others to fill a need or fix a broken relationship) while being less that forthright in his own relationships (not telling spouse about new, young love interest).

Pot/Kettle, no?

JaneQ
 
I can see how it seems off to you, Jane. I prefer forthright transparency myself.

I also can see them having some kind of DADT agreement. That's the vibe I got with the "I accept that so long as it doesn't affect me" thing.

Rdos does not actually clarify what kind of agreement they have though.


Galagirl
 
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Actually, we both practiced secrecy. It's just that our daughter showed me some of her correspondence, but I then decided I didn't want to know. I'm much better at hiding things so nobody actually knows. It's also not a relationship at this point. Maybe it will end as a friendship as well.

It was not planned to start another connection, but when the possibility arose I decided to at least play along for a while. Right now I have no idea what it will end with, but I will not accept anything exclusive with her. I'm also asexual, so there will be no sex for sure.

The point is that we didn't know about open marriages or polyamory when we got together 22 years ago, so we couldn't negotiate anything. However, that doesn't mean we cannot pursue things as they happen. At least I think there is no harm in it as long as it doesn't affect our marriage. Not when we both are polyamory.

Ideally, we should have negotiated something, but I don't think that is possible. But suppose we do have some kind of DADT agreement, even if we haven't talked about it.
 
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That's not really an agreement if you haven't talked about it.

I don't understand why the problem with negotiating things now? I had been monogamously together with my husband for 11 years when I told him Iwas developing feelings for his friend. We took our time and talked lots and I agreed not to do anything without him being ok with it and five years later here we are and it's all fine. And there hasn't ever been a point when our marriage was under threat because of it. We just talked and talked and tried our best to make one another happy. Relationships change as people grow and complete honesty is the best tool we have for living ethically.
 
I think I described why before. She is not likely to accept it, and if she does, she might change her mind later. That's due to jealousy. Instead I've used another method that I think is fair: I just copied her behavior without telling her, and I justify that with her not telling me. That sounds harsh, but I have no bad intentions with it.

Additionally, nothing really has developed between me and the new girl. I actually described what has happened here earlier (without putting it in a specific context): http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69965
 
You think it is fair. Does she? Unknown.

So there is no DADT agreement here.

Cuz still not an agreement if you both have not talked about it first and then agreed that is how it is going to be handled together. The couple choosing agreements for the couple.

At this time, it is you choosing to make a decision for you that could affects the couple while she is in the dark while telling yourself stories to explain it away.

I get that she is not being up front with you in her behavior. That is not reason or excuse for you not being up front with her in your behavior.

It is just winds up at two less than up front people. Not what I call ethical non-monogamy. If that is a desired outcome, you guys are not quite there. Will have to become more comfortable being honest with selves and then with each other. :(

Galagirl
 
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I was very jealous when my husband wasn't being totally honest with me. Insecurity is inevitable when things are being hidden and games like this are played. Have you not ever wondered if maybe it's the fact you aren't honest that keeps your wife trapped in jealousy?

Once I had a couple of years behind us of my husband showing me his commitment to complete honesty (and had time to heal from the past and learn to trust him again) jealousy melted away. I still get twinges but they're banished by honesty not by secrecy.
 
She is not jealous because of past affairs. I have no past affairs, and I have never been dishonest. I have accepted that she likes another guy, even if she haven't told me outright that she does (rather it was daughter that showed me the evidence). I'm not going to be honest with my connection because I don't think she will accept it even if I accepted hers. And I cannot take back telling her about it, and become harassed for it. I might change my mind about it at some point, but this is not the right time for that.
 
You are playing games. MArriage isn't about fairness, or doing what she does to you right back at her. That's not a relationship I'd ever want to be a part of. If you can't be honest with someone, what's the point? That's the one defining characteristic of polyamory that pretty much all of us, no matter our flavor, can agree with. Honesty.

You aren't being honest. Therefore, you are lying. This isn't right.
 
I could be wrong. But I get the vibe you are not talking about each of you having crushes but actually dating people on the side. If that is the case?

I'm not going to be honest with my connection because I don't think she will accept it even if I accepted hers.

I prefer this way of stating that. Even if you aren't being honest with HER right now about it? At least in this way of expressing that you are owning your own behavior choices up front when you post. I encourage you to do more of that, at least here. Perhaps learning to own it here will help you come to own it in other spaces later?

Expressed the other way like this:

But suppose we do have some kind of DADT agreement, even if we haven't talked about it.

That doesn't own your behavior with "I" statements. That is more like dissembling or glossing it over to me.

I'm not going to tell you what is right or wrong for you or your relationship at this point in time or not. That's all on you guys to determine -- the people actually in the relationship.

I'll just hope over time it moves closer to ethical non-monogamy if that's the outcome you both are hoping for.

Galagirl
 
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I could be wrong. But I get the vibe you are not talking about each of you having crushes but actually dating people on the side. If that is the case?

Nobody is dating anybody. The guy me wife is fond of is a mutual dance acquaintance that she likes to dance a lot with. Our daughter is also kind of fond of him, which made for some competition between them. I'm certainly not dating anybody either. I've not even talked to her.

Besides, dating is not my kind of way of getting into relationships, so that might actually be beside the point.

prefer this way of stating that. Even if you aren't being honest with HER right now about it? At least in this way of expressing that you are owning your own behavior choices up front when you post. I encourage you to do more of that, at least here. Perhaps learning to own it here will help you come to own it in other spaces later?

That's true.

I'll just hope over time it moves closer to ethical non-monogamy if that's the outcome you both are hoping for.

It might. OTOH, talking about things has never been our way of operating. I kind of think that talk is cheap and what counts is how you behave. At least to me committing to polyamory is less important than actually showing by your actions that you operate in such a way.

I'd get really mad if my partner suddenly told me she was in love with another guy, and claimed we needed to move to an open marriage. Especially if she also neglected me, or claimed that some of her needs were only fulfilled by the other guy. That would cause serious marriage problems for me at least.
If it is ethical or not is beside the point, and so is if she is honest or not. Sometimes brutal honesty is not the best way to behave.
 
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Honesty doesn't have to be brutal to be complete.

At no point have I neglected my husband's needs or said that we needed to move to an open marriage. I told him I had feelings for someone else. That was it to begin with. He then started trying to think of ways that would be acceptable to him for me to be able to spend time with the other. We were in a long distance situation and the other was a mutual friend and my ex so it was only phone calls for a long time and gradually expanded as my husband felt more and more comfortable trusting it wasn't taking anything away from him and I.

Honesty doesn't have to be traumatic or demanding or cruel. For us it's an act of love, it's saying to one another 'I value you enough not to misrepresent myself to you.'
 
At no point have I neglected my husband's needs or said that we needed to move to an open marriage.

Polywife12 seems to have done just that.

I told him I had feelings for someone else. That was it to begin with. He then started trying to think of ways that would be acceptable to him for me to be able to spend time with the other. We were in a long distance situation and the other was a mutual friend and my ex so it was only phone calls for a long time and gradually expanded as my husband felt more and more comfortable trusting it wasn't taking anything away from him and I.

That seems like a nice way to handle it. However, since I haven't even talked to this girl, I think it is too early. I think we have mutual feelings for each others, but I could be wrong. I also have no idea what kind of relationship she would expect if we did talk to each others. I suspect she is bisexual and already in a relationship with another girl.
 
Besides, I have talked with wife about polyamory, and that I'm like that. I even described how it worked and things. The problem was that she never reciprocated in an obvious way to this. So I think she knows I'm ok with it. It's even so that other people think she is crossing lines when she talks too much about him, while I'm cool with it.
 
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