The Musings of a Newbie

New2This3

New member
Hello all! I am New2This3....I've fairly new to this community/site and have written about most of what's going on in my life right now in a different thread (you can find that here for some background: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75721)

..I figured I'd start a blog in this section to kind of continue my life's journey into the poly world and perhaps get some feedback along the way....

So the last I left off on the thread I posted before, I was trying to find ways to get past my feelings of insecurities/jealousy....I took the advice/insight I received on here to heart...mulled it around, and realized that some self reflection and self-focus couldn't hurt and is probably MUCH needed regardless.... It also serves greatly as a distraction from constantly over analyzing everything and anything that has to do with me and S (my husband for those who don't know) and with S and K (his "girlfriend") ((I put the quotations because they love each other but she's married in a monogamous relationship, soon to be separated with the intentions of getting divorced and wants to be free before pursuing any relationships further.....again for those who don't know))

Anywho....I've also decided to just sacrifice my feelings for awhile on the "ultimatum" S gave me.... I started to feel that things were getting nowhere with trying to talk more about it and trying to make him understand how I felt about it.... So instead I decided to just submit and go along with it....after all it's not like I'm doing things I don't want to do or don't agree with...it's just that I wanted more out of it and wanted my feelings to be considered.... But anyways, I've actually been happy with how things have been since deciding to just "roll" with it.... The stress of over analyzing is gone....S has been living up to his word on trying to reconnect with me and work on finding "us" again.....the abstinence sucks like hell (we are both very sexual people but one of his concerns was that that was the only level we connected on so he wants to try and reconnect on other different levels) but it's been nice trying to spark the romance again....

I've found that either I keep my feelings/thoughts/emotions completely contained within or I talk TOO much about how I feel and how others feel, asking and prodding (spelling?) to try and understand them..... It's a little smothering sometimes and I'm trying to work on that.

But yeah, it's been a week and two days since S made his "ultimatum" and I feel like overall it's been a good week and two days :). I feel like K and I are doing well within our friendship....we even hung out all three of us together a few times and had fun :) and also just me and her and our kids, which can get crazy but still I love it :)

I'll write about a few other thoughts in separate posts below.
 
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Career goals on the horizon

I may have touched briefly on this on the other thread but I'm gonna mention it again.

So I've been at my current job for over 10yrs. I have two years left of schooling before obtaining my BA in the same field. After taking time off to focus on have little mini me's with S, I have been accepted back into the program and my job has offered to pay the tuition for it. I'm so grateful and excited!! :D not only that, it comes with some great incentives once I have my degree completed... So yay! I still have some things I'm weary of or nervous about but all in all I feel like things are starting to look up career wise for me.

Not only that, but the college is in a nearby city and I've felt so antisocial for the last 3 years, I feel like now I'm gonna be surrounded by plenty of opportunities to make friends and network and maybe even more ;) ;) ;) ;)

Yay for opportunities!! Lol
 
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Reassuring a Mono GF

So earlier tonight K and I were texting back and forth....and a silly teasing convo led to her asking a serious question.... She asked if I really would be okay with S being "intimate" with her.... I immediately responded "sure" (((which is the truth))) and she responded "but you're married to him so I don't understand"

::sigh::

I had to take a minute at this point to try and collect my thoughts and find the words to explain it to a person who has only been in a monogamous relationship, who I fear will potentially not be suited for a poly life, who isn't okay with S and I being intimate ((so of course she thinks I wouldn't be ok with her and him)), who I adore and care about so much, who I WANT to be with and I mean in more than a best friend type of relationship, who is part of my life now and I don't want to say anything out of line that would eff that up.......

:::double sigh:::
:::runs hand thru hair:::
Oh boyyyyy

So finally I told her this, verbatim:
"I've told you before, I want us three to be together...even if that ends up meaning only you and I are best friends....I know that you and S love each other...and S and I love each other .... And part of that love means intimacy and making love/sex... I'm okay with you and him because the love between you two is beautiful and makes the both of you happy....and that's what I want, all of us to be happy....together. "

:::nervous sweat pouring down face:::
Was it okay to say that? Was it enough of an explanation? Did I explain myself okay? Should I have worded it differently??
Obviously all rhetorical questions since what's done is done lol she said she was still processing last I heard from her....and I told her no worries, no rush...to enjoy her time with S (((they meet up at the gym in the evenings when they can))) AND I'm hoping that each of these little gestures (such as the explanation plus telling her to enjoy her time with him) help her in feeling more comfortable with the idea of all this...

Is it a wasted effort?? Who knows.
But I gotta try right?

On a different note, the idea of S and K moving their relationship to the next level kinda excited me tonight....which completely took me by surprise...i fully expected more jealousy and insecurities to creep up and take over me (((which may or may not still happen once it crosses that level)))
Maybe it's the thought that things will actually be able to progress ((perhaps faster?)) within each of our relationships once things start to include sexual experiences??
Maybe it's the thought of truly finding out where things will lead once that barrier is crossed??
Maybe it's the thought of hope that intimacy will bring us all closer?

Or maybe I just plain ol' find the image of S being sexual with K a complete and total turn on?! :::grins wide eyed:::

Haha who knows ...
Ok ok...I think I've rambled on enough for tonight.
Good night everyone!! :D ;)
 
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Whether this all works out or NOT ... is not, solely, your responsibility. I'd like to say more but I am heading off to bed.
 
New2This, I responded on your other thread.

You are obviously polyamorous or polysexual. And it is common when one is poly, to sometimes feel aroused at the thought of one's partner having sex with another person. So, that's OK. It's fine.

However, you are sex deprived right now. You have been extremely, or in my opinion, overly generous in agreeing to your husband's decision not to fuck you until... K feels OK with the idea of her married lover fucking his own wife? or, is actually fucking him so it's OK if he fucks you? I still can't wrap my head around this agreement!

K is probably mono. You're poly, and bisexual. She seems to be leading you on in the "possible sex in the future with her" idea. This happens often in potential triads. I think she has way too much on her plate to be in relationship with your husband, much less with her boyfriend's wife (you). She may be merely bicurious to a small degree. Don't get your hopes up.

I know you 3 will go on and do whatever you want. But if I were in your shoes, I'd be putting the brakes on the whole shebang at least until she moves into her own apartment in October.

I thought she was living with you and your h but I guess I was wrong? She is still living with her husband and only sees your h at the gym? Her kids are home with her husband while she's flirting with and kissing your h at the gym? She better get custody agreements settled first. Or goodness knows what a judge might think of all this, if he or she finds out about her little secret. Does her husband suspect anything?

Congrats on getting tuition reimbursement and being able to go back to college. You say you've felt cut off from society since having kids, so enjoy making friends and being intellectually stimulated!

K is also socially cut off, and far too dependent on your husband for social support and sexual feelings. She'd be better off putting the brakes on this affair, and either resuming things once she is divorced, or staying single for a while as she recovers from and adjusts to the divorce, and helps her kids adapt to a new lifestyle. She might eventually seek a single mono guy so she can avoid all the complications of loving a married man.

This is all my opinion. Feel free to disagree. You seem somehow happy with it all, but it sounds like a bunch of risky business to me, not to mention the unfairness of not getting sex from your h so he can help K avoid feelings of envy and jealousy.
 
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This is all my opinion. Feel free to disagree. You seem somehow happy with it all, but it sounds like a bunch of risky business to me, not to mention the unfairness of not getting sex from your h so he can help K avoid feelings of envy and jealousy.

I don't disagree with you completely and I do thank you for your insight on the whole situation. I tried sending you a private message yesterday but I'm not sure if it went through or not. I'm busy at work right now but I will come back to respond when I get a free moment.
 
Realizations

So.... Theres a lot I want to mention and get off my chest so hopefully I don't forget anything....

1) I feel like I'm pushing them away by expressing myself about how I feel about this whole situation every few days....

2) S has realized that his ultimatum was a wrong move on his part, but still seems at a cross roads when it comes to the whole situation.... He says that all he knows for certain is that he wants us both in his life in any way he can, he just doesn't fully understand right now what that means....

3) I've expressed to him that All I am asking if him is for us to work on our relationship without any restrictions.... But I know he feels conflicted about that because he feel doing so with me will cause conflict with His "potential" relationship with her.... He expressed that I'm acting as though he doesn't want me in the ways I say and that I'm acting like he doesn't love me anymore....and he says I am wrong, he just doesn't know how to make both woman whom he loves happy without hurting the other....

4) I think I may have wrongfully assumed that K was somewhat to blame for how things are between S and I.... But I think after today's conversation that I had with her, I'm more leaning to things being the way they are solely because S doesn't know how to sort out his internal struggle with a lot of things.

5) she agreed with me (in her own way) that she doesn't know if she will be okay with sharing S with me....but she (and S says this a lot too) said that the future can hold many possibilities and outcomes so who knows....

6) at the end of the conversation she told me that S and I can do what we want....that she is tired of being the one holding everyone back....

7) i maybe be a fool or blind or whatever i WANT to work on my marriage.... I know things have been rocky for a long time...but I feel like we have acknowledged all those issues and I feel like our communication is getting better EVEN THOUGH we don't see eye to eye on things right now, we are still being open and honest with how each other feels and that is a hell of an improvement from how we used to treat each other and from how distant we would sometimes be..... We have kids together too....and if there is a chance at happiness between him and I, I want to take it...I want my family to stay together.... I know I have to draw the line somewhere....but I guess I'm just not ready to right now....

8) S has said that he doesn't know what the future holds but that he knows he needs us both in some way.... And that he feels like he most likely will end up loosing one of us but that he is hoping that won't be the case....but he feels like one of us will end of finding life to be too much.... He thinks it will be K because she is mostly monogamous.... And it hurts him to think he will end up loosing her.

9) at the very least, I want to be friends to them both for now....I want the freedom to do as I please with my own husband but I also feel like I need to be patient and supportive of him, and not because I think he is making the right choices, but because I love him and feel like I should be there for him as he goes through what he's going through, whether I agree with it or not.....he has to deal with the consequences of his own actions and decisions....I will always love him unconditionally.....

10) I'm tired of over analyzing everything.... :( I just want to live in the moment.... I want to be there for them both...maybe start somewhat from scratch but more just on a platonic level and slower pace I guess......she's going thru a tough time and doesn't need all this extra stuff overwhelming her...I kinda think that's why she gets frustrated with me when I talk about how I feel so I'm just gonna stop and focus on helping her through this time in her life. As for me and S.... I guess I can only focus on doing what I can to show him I love him and that I'm trying to work on us and our relationship and that I don't want to loose him as my husband. Whether he meets me halfway or not will determine our future together ((along with other factors I suppose))

11) he has been doing his part, I will admit that much...we've had two nice lunches just me and him and he's made more of an effort to try and reconnect with me and whatnot....so that's been nice.

12) this is completely unrelated but our 30th birthdays are coming up in September and I have no clue what to get him....I am a sucker for trying to give meaningful gifts and with how this whole situation has been, I just can't think of an idea that screams "I love you this much".....you know, like that one special gift that they will cherish forever....ugh . I hope I think of something amazing.

I probably did forget to mention a few things I wanted to say but who knows. I'm tired and off to bed. Good night.
 
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Back with LOTS of updates

A hella lot has happened in the last two months since I last posted.

A lot of lies and truths and painful talks and eye opening sh*t and cycling back and forth between S and K and S and me.

She moved into her apartment Oct 1st and S spent the weekend there helping her because he felt like he "owed" her because she literally had no one else to help her move....

At the time she was hurt because of something she found out about him and I that he hid from her.

At the time, her and I ceased our friendship.

So S was cycling back and forth between her and I.....staying nights there when she didn't have her kids, and nights at our house when she had her kids.

He was maintaining a platonic relationship with us both while he 'figured himself out'.....

i went through stages of emotional unstability.....i pleaded with him....begged him....fought with him....apologized to him....basically tried anything i could to try and "win" him back....

we went on a date and really had a heart to heart talk about EVERYTHING. i thought it went well.

but then at home, things got saucy and we missed each other so....that happened. and he wanted to keep it a secret from her....again. ::sigh::

i missed him and still wasn't in my right state of mind so i went along with it for a few days...

and then i slowly realized the cycle that we three have been going through all this time....

and that now that she had her apartment this was the cycle and kind of life that he was going to keep up.....he loves two women. one wants a mono relationship with him. while his wife doesnt want to simply be 'just' friends.

and i realized he was going to just live day by day letting things play out and never be able to make a decision...

i realized i deserved better than that.

and so i told him i had to let him go. financially i can't afford to live on my own....not yet, and i didn't have any place to go so i moved my stuff into the spare bedroom and started distancing myself from him....only communicating when it pertained to the kids.

and he was heartbroken over it.

the 2nd day after i told him this, i gave him a separation agreement to look over and sign. i had to go to class that night and he went to K's house in tears apparently.....they had a long talk and to an agreement that things didn't feel right. there was no lack of love or abuse in our marriage and she felt like if she had half of that with her marriage that she would be trying to make her marriage work. so they decided to stay friends.

and he came back to me.

except he was still heartbroken....this time in loosing her.

but thats not all....the next day, K's husband finds out about S and K....

and i think out of guilt of her "cheating" she was apologetic and kinda turned a leaf saying things like she ruined our marriage and got in the way of us and is afraid of loosing us as friends etc....and that she hate that she hurt her husband and that her sins are far greater than anything he has done and that she feels like she ruined her marriage as well....

and we tried staying friends with her. but she and her husband ended up talking Saturday night about everything..... and he told her that IF she wanted to try to work out their marriage again, that he didn't want her to be friends with us anymore.

so she told us about it and said she wasn't making any decisions right away....but that she did feel like she missed her family, and that she felt love for her husband but wasn't "in love" with him so she wasn't sure what she was going to do...

S has been taking this all extremely bad and started projecting anger towards her....

she is so distraught that today, my attempts to be supportive and friendly have been reciprocated by her lashing out at me, saying things like she was the one who let S go...that she knew he loved her and was going to be good for her but that she could not and would not ever share him with anyone....and she was tired of defending her beliefs to us and him trying to shape her into something that he wanted her to be...that she couldn't change who she was.....and that maybe it was better for us three to not be friends.

i've left out details, like things S has said to me about their relationship....things he could feel wouldn't have worked....but then he knows he loves her and misses her greatly and he is taking it VERY hard.

and i guess i'm just torn emotionally. i love him. but i hate seeing him hurt like this.

and i keep second guessing whether he has made the right choice.

i know it was his choice to make.....but he almost didn't even make it himself....and hes said things to me afterwards, like how he realizes he feels like he abandoned me and our marriage and was blinded by some of his emotions.....how he always has loved me and will never stop loving me, etc.

among a lot of other things...


i guess i just need some outsider's point of views....
 
I had a very similar experience when I first started dating Elle. She, like K, wanted me all to herself. At one point Cat and I did put our relationship on hold for various reasons. That caused Elle to really push for a monogamous relationship. In the end I said no and we are now friends who occasionally have sex. It will probably never progress beyond that. The whole experience has caused me to shy away from women who are not explicitly poly.

K had some very unrealistic expectations. The whole "wait until she's okay with you and your hubby having sex" thing blew my mind. It's a shame your hubby didn't realize that would never work. If he loves you he needs to get over her. If you guys decide to remain poly in the future I hope he makes better choices. I hope you make better choices as well. I'm sure you can see how agreeing to that ultimatum was a mistake.
 
Self-reflection & Thoughts

(I've edited my Signature and gave nicknames to my husband and his oso instead of initials)

So I'm pretty sure last night Stone said his last farewell to Kiwi....he said they both held each other and cried and had their last kiss. He's been an emotional mess....I really feel sad for him, that he's going through the pain of loosing her :-(

I also feel some conflicting, confusing emotions that I know are just internal issues I have to sort out....I mean, this whole (messy) experience has been our first poly experience and it just happened to keep going all wrong....and not at all what i envisioned poly being....but from it, I think I've learned what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not comfortable with.... and seeing him loose this other person he felt so deeply for has got me feeling....i dont know....a whole mess of things. it's hard sorting it all out.

Some thoughts on my mind though....at one point when he 'came back' to me, he said that he felt like he loved us both, but that he didn't want to share me with another man, and he didn't want to share her with another man....but that the thought of me finding another woman and falling in love wasn't as painful to think for him..... which on some level, I'm okay with....I personally don't feel like I'm interested in finding another male anyhow.

but at the same time, he never initially thought of himself as being poly....he kinda just fell for this woman, and knew he still loved me as well....and so suddenly his vision of his future was of a closed Vee (even though he never labeled it as such), with us all living together as one family....something that I was excited about (as I mentioned early on back in August).....

I'm wondering though if now after this break-up/loss, if his vision is now of a monogamous marriage with nly me....for the rest of our lives...maybe its the pain causing those thoughts....and of course, i'm not gonna bring it up...its way too soon to be talking about a poly life again....we have issues with our relationship that we need to sort out after he starts moving on from his loss....so I know it'll take time before the subject can even be talked about again....

I don't know...it just has me wondering...

I have started to read the book More Than Two....on my own quest to see if I personally identify with being poly. I feel that I do. And I suppose it scares me of what that might mean for Stone and I, especially if this experience turns him away from the idea in the end.

Ugh, My mind is going to explode. I need a distraction.
Back to work it is.
 
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Not Handling this too well

Oh jealousy.....you are something aren't ya....always creeping up to make things worse and more complicated than things need to be.....

I've been finding myself feeling "off" ever since Stone and Kiwi ended things. I simply can't pinpoint why though....When Stone decided that he didn't want him and I to separate and that he still wanted to be with me, things felt right again....i felt right again....i felt more love for him than i ever have....while i still had my doubts that the cycle would still continue....and i suppose i still have doubts about whether he actually still loves me or not? i'm not sure....second-guessing things is dangerous.

its almost as if i keep replaying in my mind, all the times were things were bad between us....all the hurtful words, all the "talks" that seemed from the heart at the time, but now, he says something different....and with him being distant because he is sad and hurting over Kiwi, I guess I feel lost....i know that i shouldn't. his relationship with her is separate from ours.

maybe i'm afraid of loosing him again. in the sense that he is going through this pain and hurt and trying to move on but that in the process, he might grow apart from me again? maybe i'm afraid of him realizing that he cant look at me without thinking of that life he dreamed of that included both me and Kiwi in it?

Kiwi is still facebook friends with us.....and I've noticed that they both are suddenly way more active on facebook than they have ever been before.... not talking to each other though....simply updating their own facebooks..... and a part of me knows its so they can still be a part of each others lives without actually talking and communicating and such.....

why the hell does that get me upset though?!?!?! it shouldn't matter. so what if they decided to be more active on facebook....thats their choice.

dig deeper, New2This3....come on....what is really irking you right now....

its like this switch flipped inside of me, the day they went to meet up to say their last goodbyes.

and now i'm agitated. when i should be there for him....helping him get through this.

instead i feel like i might be making things harder and/or worse by acting this way.

maybe its that i dont know how to act.

or maybe its that when he came back to me, it felt like he was actually back....like mind, body, soul....and it felt like we were connected again..... but now?

the sadness has consumed him. i feel like a prop on the wall, waiting to be noticed. he tries. but i can feel that he's only half here with me....i can sense that he is simply going through the motions, taking things day by day....

geez, this is totally selfish of me isn't it? pouting like a little kid because she isn't getting the attention she wants.

what the hell is wrong with me. :::bangs head down on counter:::

:(
 
I agree with nycindie. Even before your husband and Kiwi launched their emotional affair you and he had needed help for some time. The thing with Kiwi has not improved things. With any luck there is some low cost counseling in your area, if money is an issue.

Leetah
 
Money is definitely an issue

I agree with nycindie. Even before your husband and Kiwi launched their emotional affair you and he had needed help for some time. The thing with Kiwi has not improved things. With any luck there is some low cost counseling in your area, if money is an issue.

Leetah

Yeah, we have discussed possibly going to counseling together, but right now finances are holding us back. And i very much want to go to a poly-friendly therapist, but the closet one to us is out-of-network and charges more than we can afford to pay out of pocket. :-(
 
An experienced poly counselor is a help but if, when you are first talking to potential counselors on the phone, you ask how open they are to learning about polyamory you may find someone who will do just fine. Our counselor had never dealt with it before but relationships are relationships and aside from being cautious in the beginning, he has been very sympathetic and helpful. You will have to perhaps explain some aspects of your vision of the relationship but so does one in any relationship counseling.

Leetah
 
If you are a member of a church, sometimes there are counseling options - either with a pastor or getting a referral. And those are usually less expensive.

I can only imagine what a Christian counselor would say about romantically loving someone who isn't your spouse though!
 
Do you live by any colleges/universities? They often have training clinics run by students who can offer very low fees (or no fees) for therapy. Or see if anyone in the community offers sliding scale fees (call one person and ask for referrals).

If you're not able to find a therapist well-versed in poly, look for a therapist who has experience with LGBTQ issues. They often have more experience with poly folks and are more open-minded to the idea of poly.

Oh, and have you spoken to the poly-friendly therapist out of network? They sometimes can reduce their rates or offer you other referrals. In fact, I'd start there and call them.
 
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I think I need to end things.

He's cycling back to her again.

She wants to try and be friends again. and he's cycling back.

I can't keep doing this.

I think I just need to end things.

Its so rough. I don't know what to do. I can't control anyone's actions but my own so I don't think I can tell him to cut her out of his life if he wants us to work.

This whole situation has kind of ruined the poly lifestyle for me, no offense to anyone.

But at this point, I simply want to focus on me and him and its too late, because now he loves another woman too and theres really no going back.

I can't keep living with this back and forth. I told him I wouldn't keep doing it.

So maybe I should just be done. :(
 
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