Struggling to Find Happiness

Monogamish

New member
As a brief introduction, I've been a lurker on the forums for quite some time, but decided that you all were so helpful that I'd love to have your input and join in your dialogues myself.

Me: 23, female, heteroflexible, in a consensual M/s relationship within BDSM, about to open my relationship with my live-in primary partner (also the "M" in the M/s). The poly is going to be negotiated as though we were both equals, so that the power dynamic doesn't muck things up with a One-Penis-Policy or somesuch.

My Primary: Also 23, my Master (sorry if that term makes some uncomfortable, just think of him as my dominant if that helps), male, with some experience doing live-in poly as part of a BDSM dynamic (always with one male, two females, both females as submissives to him, and neither female in a sexual relationship with the other).

I've been around the poly block a few times, once as a married couple's unicorn (which was lovely while it lasted, but that ended when the wife got scared that the husband was falling for me and wanted to come out to his family as poly, and she then pulled the "I am the mother of your child and don't want her as more than a dirty little secret with good sex" card, ending both the relationships), once in a veritable stable of girls under a sociopath's control (that's a story for another post, I think, but safe to say it was imposed, and disastrous), and once with my current primary as one of his two slaves (which ended when she felt threatened and tried to be "like me" while being dishonest, with bad results).

I'm trying to do right by myself and my partner this time round, and we're opening up our relationship in October, but I can't help but feel nervous, insecure, jealous of phantoms, scared of what-ifs...all those things that monos typically feel when confronted or presented with poly for the first time, even though I've done this before. If my partner ever decided he wanted to be with me and only me, I wouldn't feel like I was missing out on a core part of myself by letting the possibility of other partnerships go. On the other hand, I recognize what value they can bring to my life, and that they take the pressure off him to be everything to me and vice versa. I know that I may have just had a run of bad luck, communication is everything, ect.

All in all, we've talked about every likely scenario and what our rules, limits and desires are. He has someone sort of lined up for October, and so, I guess, do I (at least, someone has expressed an interest in me)--I'm just muddled and scared, even if it's unreasonable. My mono side feels hurt by the fact that he has to go exploring in other romantic/sexual pastures, when isn't "having other people to do things with" what friends are for? But I don't want to sit home moping and crying because he still wants what he always wanted, and I know that thinking this way is unproductive and selfish, not to mention hurtful and destructive. And before anyone asks, I would never ask him to change himself for me. I just need to figure out a way to be happy with something that has been hurtful to me in the past.

In conclusion, I will also give the poly-go-round another try for myself. I think it deserves another shot with more mature people who won't demand everything from me without giving much in return.

Thanks for listening, sorry if this is in the wrong location, and any and all input or advice would be greatly appreciated, from monos and polys alike.
 
My suggestion would be to respect that you have had some experiences in the past that have left you wounded and ask that he take it slow and go at your pace. Ask him to respect that also.

If he knows you have good intentions to work on being comfortable then he should be okay with that, or at least respect that. Realize that there is plenty of time and building a solid foundations. He will be uncomfortable sometimes as he will have to slow right down and possibly miss chances to be intimately close to others. To me THAT is maturity.

Really, this has nothing to do with his being your master. Dominant people have a responsibility to be considerate and respectful. Those that aren't are just ass holes I think.

Have a look at the "foundations" and "lessons" threads when you do a tag in the search engine. You might find some ideas on where to start out in order to have a successful relationship dynamic.
 
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He actually has decided he is going to slow down so much that, until I have had a few poly experience I'm comfortable in and am enjoying, that he won't be pursuing anyone (and although I have never asked him to do this, he still feels like he's doing it 'for my benefit', which I'm a bit afraid will make resentment happen down the line). I guess I'm just confused and scared. Confused because some days he says that what he might want is live-in 24/7 D/s like he used to have, and he knows I don't have any desires for that again, so he'd have to release me in order to pursue that, and some days he says he might try poly and it not work out and him be content with one relationship (incidentally, he does say he's happy with just me, he just knows he could be happier with other people involved, so that's what he wants)...but then he tells me that I'm hearing him wrong, and that the only thing he really wants has never changed since his second slave left, which is to have me as a live-in primary relationship leading to marriage, and to then have tertiary or secondary relationships with other female submissives in a non-d/s context. He likes variety. He wants to be sexual with other people. He wants to care about other people, but have the flexibility to see them twice a week or twice a month without hurt feelings because him and his other partner are secure and happy in their lives already.

Me? I don't know what I want anymore. Monogamy seems simple and happy. Poly seems complex and full of woe. But I don't want to close myself off to the possibility that someone wonderful could walk into my life and enrich it in ways I don't even know about yet. So I think I'm just scared of being replaced (even though he assures me I won't be), scared of being dismissed because I'm occasionally miserable (I have clinical depression. It often causes me to see the worst in situations instead of the best), and scared because I feel like I can't talk to him about it anymore--he just gets frustrated and hurt, and so do I. So I don't really have anyone TO talk to about it.

Thank you for the response. He really is being understanding, but I feel like a horrible person every time I get jealous or scared or insecure. I don't want to ruin this relationship based on insecurities, fears, or my being uncomfortable with feeling like I'm not "enough" (a fallacy in thinking, I know. Love is infinite, not a resource that disappears; just because we may both have jobs now that dictate totally separate schedules and thus not much time for each other doesn't mean we love each other any less, for example). I want to love him and be generous in the way he deserves, and open my heart to new experiences, and not feel like I misrepresented myself or lied to him when I started this relationship (he says I've changed and become more mono in my thinking, and that I don't think poly is worth the trouble). I guess I just got content and happy with the way things were when we weren't seeing anyone and working on our own relationship, and maybe I'm just afraid of change.
 
How do you have relationships with 2 or 3 female submissives in a non d/s context?

He's told you what he had ....and he's told you he may want that again in the future ......if that's not something you want to do why develop coping skills and put yourself through that. People here love to talk about feelings and words ...and the words centered around the feelings What's your gut telling you? Are his word matching what your gut is telling you?
 
I think you have relationships with people the same way you would with anyone else. Just because they identify as submissives doesn't mean they will be submissive to HIM. And even if they wanted to, I doubt he would let them just because they asked nicely. "You are not entitled to a relationship with the person of your choosing" and all that.

As far as him wanting that again someday, I'll cross that bridge when and if I come to it. Until then, I trust that what he wants right now isn't that, and I can work with what he does want, and what I want, to make a good, working set of relationships. (Including the ones I might want with other people. Because our play partner is cute. :) )

I guess you could say that I trust him more than I trust my gut, because I'm in the middle of a depressive spiral right now, and my gut is telling me all sorts of things that aren't true (like the fact that the bathroom razor looks attractive, which is obviously a fallacy, case in point). Whereas he tells me things that are true, and has proven himself worthy of my trust in the past.
 
So then what's the need to have " a submissive or 2". What would be the point......why narrow the pool.
I think under the best conditions this is difficult...suffering from clinical depression seems nearly impossible to me. Good luck to you both.
 
Well, within the BDSM community, female submissives are prevalent, and he's straight, so he expects to be in more relationships with them vs, say, dommes, purely from a numbers perspective.

As far as the depression, I will be getting it treated very shortly (doctor is currently on vacation), and then we'll be leveling the playing field back out to merely "very very difficult" rather than "almost impossible".

At any rate, neither of us give up easily, and we will be working very hard to make sure crashing and burning doesn't occur to a disastrous degree.

Thanks for the well-wishes, though.
 
What stands out for me is how much you are focused on what he wants. Even when you start to talk about trying to figure out what you want, you make your way back to how you can give him what he wants, and how you can make him happy. It seems you are hyperfocused on him, rather than your own personal need to make choices and create a life that makes YOU happy and satisfied.

I know people your age don't want to hear this from an old fart like me, but I'll say it anyway: you're young yet. Why limit yourself, when there is so much you haven't experienced? You sound pretty mature and quite intelligent, but this situation seems really fucked up to me. It just seems like you are in this rather insular world, closed off to seeing more possibilities for yourself. I would be concerned, since you are so very young and into the submissive thing, that you will allow yourself to get wrapped up in his desires, putting your own last. And your 20s are supposed to be all about self-discovery, so why not enjoy being young and single, and forget about poly, BDSM, and (romantic) relationships altogether for a while? Go take a road trip, make new friends, get to know yourself better, see the big wide world out there. Give yourself room to breathe, stretch your wings, and find out all the things you can be, besides someone's slave. I think that would help your depression immensely as well.
 
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Thank you, everyone, for your responses. They have been insightful, even when your value judgments and mine may differ.

I will say this: taking time to be gentle with myself, allow myself to go slowly and heal is an excellent idea, and one I will be trying to implement. I will also be paying attention to enriching my own life, separate from my partners, so that I have more to offer myself and them in the future. Allowing myself to remember what is right for me, and why, is important, and I will be trying to take care of myself, so that I don't get quite so caught up in trying to be what my partners want to the possible exclusion of what ~I~ want. I think that's a good start, if a bit of a tall order. :)
 
I really, really agree with what Cindie has said and having no frame of reference would only suggest you fully discuss the poly and Bdsm with your Dr upon their return. If you can't trust your gut right now maybe trust the Dr who's treating you...

Again reread cindies post .....good luck
 
I am admittedly a little surprised and saddened that this forum would give "dump him already" or "give up it's hopeless" advice so readily, and that the situation seems so "fucked up" to many of you. Discussing my kink, poly, and otherwise abnormal proclivities with a vanilla doctor isn't likely to end well, since then I won't only be treated for the depression, but also for mental instability based on my own desires. I certainly don't mean to do a flounce, or sling mud or accusations at any of the people here. I'm disappointed that this wasn't the support group I had hoped for, but it was unfair of me to place those expectations upon you to begin with. Thank you all for your time, and I apologize for having sought support from within the context of my relationship where there was little to be given.
 
I don't know if people have been sending you private messages, but only three people have replied to this thread you've started. One advised you to ask him to slow down, another said follow your gut, and the last one said spread your wings and live a little.

Maybe there's more space between these lines than I realized. Or perhaps there's something else you're reading into this that you need to deal with.
 
I don't see any responses here telling you to dump him. ???

When I said it seemed fucked up, I guess I could've find a better adjective. I just meant that he keeps changing his mind about what he wants and is basically yanking you around, especially because you are so uncertain about what you want for yourself and you are scared to talk to him about it. And I really see a need for you to expand your life a little beyond this relationship. Without establishing a true, strong sense of self, you may be headed toward real dependency in this situation. Maybe you aren't really ready for actively being a submissive until you are stronger in knowing who you are, and have a handle on your depression. From what I've read and been told about D/s relationships, it's the sub who's really "in charge" and the Dom who has been given a gift and should handle that privilege very carefully. This kind of dynamic could be a disaster for you until you are more sure of yourself and what you want in life, and he has a better handle on his responsibility toward nurturing your self-growth through his relationship with you. That's why I say, "spread your wings, grow, find out what else life has to offer you," etc. Also, I am sure there are kink-friendly therapists out there, though it may take some doing to find one.

You've only posted here a couple of days ago and received a few responses. Surely there are more opinions that you will find helpful -- but what are you looking for? Do you want to be told what to do? We can only offer our opinions based on what you've written.
 
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People here are going to give you the unvarnished true ....like it or not. I was only thinking of or health and happiness. The poly community seems to have an intersection with Bdsm community so there are plenty of experts here ...I'm surprised they haven't weighed in yet......must be tied up:)

The reason I suggested telling your Dr because these factors will be very important .....he may wonder why you not get better and thing of that nature. And remember you going to him for help and leaving out a couple very important aspects of your life.
 
I am admittedly a little surprised and saddened that this forum would give "dump him already" or "give up it's hopeless" advice so readily, and that the situation seems so "fucked up" to many of you.

Hmmm... it sounds like there was something that you really wanted to hear from somebody, but didn't. What did you want people to tell you? What advice would you give yourself? This is worth thinking about.

You reacted pretty strongly to the few responses you've received, and you seem to think that people have said to dump your partner or give up, but I don't read that in any of the responses. Perhaps you might want to examine why your reaction was so strong. Is there a particular sentence or part of one of the responses that triggered you specifically? Maybe that might be a good starting place to examine your feelings.

Thank you all for your time, and I apologize for having sought support from within the context of my relationship where there was little to be given.

That's a pretty passive-aggressive thing to say. I can tell this is a very emotionally charged issue for you, and I'm really sorry you're having a hard time.
 
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Ah, as advice goes, I also will chime in with the majority, that people read into what they see in print, in a very biased way.

I have seen people post things, with responses that seem SO out of whack "That guy is a selfish asshole!" "She is obviously using you!" "He is a manipulative bastard!" When I don't read that into the original posters comments one damn bit. People respond based on their own personal experiences. Maybe you sense this in some responses, maybe as others have said, you aren't hearing what you want to hear, or what you heard directed you into a decision that seemed contrary to what you were hearing so you think the advice is BS.

It is also possible you're biased on what you THINK people are saying based on how you planned on proceeding, and you don't like that it differs - case in point, I read a thread on fetlife yesterday, a situation that seemed similar to the one I, my partner, and his wife are in. While two days ago I was perfectly comfortable with what was going on (I thought) after reading this thread and the people's responses to it, I became sure that everybody in the world thought my actions were those of a horrible uncaring person. It took my husband reading it and giving me some feedback and objective input for me to realize that people giving advice when they don't have the whole picture of what is going on, is just that, people stabbing into the dark until we know what the full picture is. Even then, if somebody has had a negative experience with a certain dynamic, they might be prone to give subjective advice that isn't useful to you as an individual.

Bottom line - this forum has all sorts of personalities, and lots of good advice. Sometimes it isn't fuzzy and warm, sometimes it is off based until more details are uncovered, but I don't think I've seen yet anybody giving advice hoping that it made somebody anything less than better off than before the input was given.

(edit: I would've given input on the original post, but just incase you aren't going to read it I figured I would keep it to myself! ;) )
 
Annintherain,
What do you mean ...chime in with the majority and read it in a biased way.
Do you think a young 23yr old suffering from clinical depression who is struggling to find happiness is a good match for this? It sounds like you are in both communities so what is your advice? What should she do to find happiness?
 
@dingedheart
Hrm, OP seemed to take the responses as negative (which I didn't think they were either, just pragmatic/based on life experience) and decided the responses weren't to their tastes.

If you are asking if a depressed 23 yo is smart to pursue a poly relationship? I don't think it is an insane option. I was probably clinically depressed 5 years ago due to entering a relationship I was in after being poly, then becoming mono for awhile - I knew what I wanted at the time (sex that was a fun experience for both parties) and with whom I wanted it with, but I could not have the two at the same time. Led to misery for a few years. Not at all like your experiences from what I read, way back 8+ years ago with my ex-husband, I was the one who brought up poly, and he was gung-ho for the idea.

My advice is to know yourself, communicate with the important people in your life, spend time alone and ponder. That goes for any person, anytime, any relationship dynamic. If something doesn't feel good - stop. If somebody wont wait while you figure it out, fuck em.
 
Anneintherain,

You are a little hard to pin down.... Good idea/match or insane ....big difference. The problem with your idea is she can't trust her self ....the razor blade talks to her. You said yourself that you struggled with depression as the result of relationship trouble....she's already got depression and is struggling with the relationship.....I get being diplomatic and positive but what about reality. What advice would you give a close friend or sister with the same facts?
 
The male half

So, i'm the male half of this equation for her. I thought i'd weigh in on the topic and respond to some of the advice, since she has decided to not respond at all anymore. My responses are pretty much by chronological order of the posts, and should be read thusly.

Redpepper: Your advice is quite sound. In fact, when we first started our relationship, and both identified as polyamorus, we had a long negotiation, and this was a topic that was discussed at length. I suggested that we spend an entire year just to ourselves, playing the monogamous game together, to help build a strong relationship and good inter-relationship communication. October would be that year mark. Now, with her current insecurities, my own "start date" so to speak I am pushing out further from then, to provide her stability and security. Beyond my responsibilities as someone who is at the top of the power dynamic (which are, but are not limited to, nurturing her and protecting her), i'm not the type of person to cause undue harm in the people I care about. You are quite right in that this aspect of our lives has very little to do with our power dynamic. Part of her frustration comes from other posters focusing too heavily on the power dynamic, when she simply wished to provide a more accurate picture of who she was and what she was.

Dingedheart : How can two people maintain a non-d/s relationship when one identifies as a submissive/slave and one identifies as a dominant/master? Quite easily actually. I have plenty of submissive friends, dominant friends, etc. Our personality traits do not define us solely. It all comes down to responsibility. The fact is, I don't see a time where I wish to accept that kind of responsibility from another person concurrently with what I already have accepted. It may one day happen, but I simply don't have the time and energy required to maintain that kind of relationship in more than one person at this time.

This is about the point where she began to get rather frustrated with the responses. She came hoping to find fresh advice, or even better, personal stories of people who had had similar situations and how they dealt with it. Instead, her first "real" advice she got (after redpepper), was that it was nearly impossible.

nycindie: She is quite hyper focused on what I want. That is a part of who she is, part of her chosen dynamic in life. That being said, you shouldn't discount the fact that this is something she wants as well, not just for me, but for herself.

The second half of your post is where she really through her hands up in the air. She really didn't expect the forum to be as hostile to people involved in our lifestyle as it ended up being (and yes, telling her how "fucked up" everything is counts as hostile). Your advice basically boils down to she's young, so she should simply split, and go experience the world. This is where she saw the "dump him and move on" part, because thats what you are really suggesting, though not in as many words. Problem is, she's already done that. Both of us have spent time abroad (I had extended trips to both Mexico, and Spain, and she lived for 6 months in England, 6 months in Korea, and another 3 months in Austrailia), and we've done the self-exploration bit. The question is, why do you feel that further exploration has to be done with no ties at all? Why must it be done without any regard for a close connection to someone?

This is followed by dingedhearts suggestion she see a doctor, and soon. So, once again, look at it from her point of view. She got one good piece of advice (though granted, one we already knew), followed by someone telling her how "fucked up" everything was, which really translated into how fucked up SHE was, as this is something she's been happy with for a long time now, then sidelong suggestions she see a doctor. Also, for the record, her depression was diagnosed significantly early on as a chemical deficiency instead of an environmental cause.

Bahalana: Maybe now you see what she was seeing?

nycindie: Actually, what I want has not changed. One of the problems with communicating with someone who is in the middle of a depression is that they take what someone says, and put it through the "worst thing ever" filter. Everyone does the same thing actually, it's just that in depressives, the word filter that they interpret the world through is much darker than it actually is. The only thing outsiders can do is repeat, clarify, and reword, until their actual intentions get through. Still, this thread DID lead to some good communication where we identified the misinterpretation, and fixed it. What I wanted had not changed, the problem was that filter was blackening it now, whereas it wasn't when we've discussed it before.

Anneintherain: Thanks for the well-reasoned, non-biased response.

Dinged, I want to take a moment to speak to you, instead of responding to what you've posted to my female half. She had people PM her, telling her to ignore your advice, and talk the briefest bit about why you are so hostile to people in our community. I'm sorry that bad things happened to you, perpetrated by people who were involved in these types of relationships, but you really should separate the people from the kink. People can be mean, inconsiderate, and hateful anywhere. Don't blame the community for it. Still, if you feel like it's a mental illness, that everyone involved needs mental help, and so on and so forth, at least make your bias known ahead of time, so no one who is struggling with their own BDSM tendencies listens to hard and runs away from who they really are. I've been there, and done that, and it's not a pleasant place to be.

So in summary, what did she really take out of this? That her power dynamic, while irrelevant to the topic at hand really, was going to overpower and color much of the advice she was going to get. Sad, but that's the way of life. It just means that in her search for advice, she needs to find a polyamory forum/group with a greater number of people involved in our community so that the hostility/confusion is absent, and she can get the advice she is seeking.

That being said, we'll keep an eye on the thread, in hopes that someone who has a personal story will come out and post it, and we can glean some advice from it.
 
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