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I understood what you meant. You & I are close in age. I, too, have young adult children (specifically males), and I would feel creepy being with someone similarly aged. That doesn't mean that I think a 45 year old dating a 25 year old is creepy, just that I would feel creepy about me dating a 25 year old. My age gap is 8-10 years, but like you, would prefer 5 or less. OTOH, I wouldn't have qualms about dating a man who is 15-20 years older than me.

Do you think the play at the clubs felt different because it was a one time thing (as in, you're not trying to conduct a relationship with him, just have some fun?) I'd also think it could be different because the club, by nature, is meant for play, so no worries about intention. Vs on okc or another dating site, the intent can be dating, hooking up, finding a spouse, etc?
 
Yes, *I* would feel creepy but that doesn't mean it's creepy behavior is what I was trying to say! Though I will also admit that I am sometimes hypersensitive to anything that appears even slightly abusive or manipulative, and so I'm working on *not* seeing large age gaps as automatically falling into that category, because I recognize a flaw in my thinking that is based on *my* past and not on everyone's reality.

I think it didn't bother me at the club purely because I wasn't thinking about it. Last year I briefly dated a 35-year-old. That bothered me too...but only when I stopped to think "He's only 35." If I wasnt thinking about the age gap, there was no issue. With the guys at the club, I wasn't thinking about their ages, just about the mutual interest in getting naked together.

I think that's part of it...if I reject someone who is of legal age and reasonable maturity solely because of their age, even if we get along great and are attracted to each other, is that a rational thing? Or would that be missing out on something positive due to no factor other than a number?

These are the thoughts I have with migraines and insufficient caffeine. Lol
 
I think that's part of it...if I reject someone who is of legal age and reasonable maturity solely because of their age, even if we get along great and are attracted to each other, is that a rational thing? Or would that be missing out on something positive due to no factor other than a number?

Yes, definitely could be missing out on something! I also think it's easier when we meet people in person to develop that...vs online where it's more packaged and commercial. That may be part of why it was easier for you to hook up with those younger guys in person than it is to talk to younger men on a dating site, they weren't wearing a sign with their age (like the 35 year old from the dating site.) A friend of mine helped me set up my first profile on a dating site after my divorce. She thought it would be fun to "pick men for my shopping cart." And while that's not exactly what we do with a dating site, it kind of is. Because they're so many men/women available on the sites, we have to filter them out somehow. In doing that, we will absolutely filter some people out that we might be really compatible with (like the age thing) and we might leave some people in that we'd naturally filter out in person. This is why I prefer meeting people in person. We can decide whether we click based on personality, temperament, physical spark, etc, instead of whether they meet a checklist of criteria and are in the "appropriate" age range. And, we learn those details organically.

All that said, I still don't wish to date young men...even if it means I'm missing out. Fortunately, I wasn't abused and I haven't had huge power imbalances in my relationships....it just squicks me out to date men who are too close in age to my oldest son. And, I'm ok with that!
 
I don't want to derail your blog KC, I simply wanted to say that I'm glad you're back blogging. I may not always understand where you're coming from but I've always loved your posting style.
 
Thanks, WhatToDo :) I don't always understand where I'm coming from either...

PinkPig that makes sense. I'm still kinda thinking on this.
 
I homeschooled my kids. So they were rarely with exact age mates. Often kids were together as families, and there would be kids from say, 3-15 years of age cooperating in play or projects. The younger kids could be mentored by the older ones, the older ones could be protective of the younger. And also entertained by their cuteness.

Of course, sometimes peers would gravitate together, but it wasn't all the time.

I think we are all programmed too much by school to hang out with people within one year of our age. But then mainstream society also tells women it's OK to be with older men since they have more money and power. And it tells guys to seek a younger more fertile trophy wife 5, 10, 15 years younger. That makes them a stud.

This is slowly changing. I get messaged by younger men all the time on OKC, who appreciate my maturity, confidence and still find me very sexy.

It's even a feminist issue for me. If I crave a young virile man 10 or more years my junior, with youthful enthusiasm and hipness, over some older guy in his 50s or 70s who hasn't progressed past rotary phones and his greying pornstache, that is well within my rights.
 
Thanks for chiming in, Mags. I was hoping you would share your take.

For me, the age thing isn't about society. I don't care what society tells me; if I did, I wouldn't be a poly amorous submissive who likes occasional casual sex. Lol. I just have a hard time with things that have a potential to lead to manipulation or abuse, and while I know age gaps usually don't go that way, my perception is that they easily could.

On a more personal level, because of my history and because of being slightly overprotective of my kids, I feel like *I* am being predatory and inappropriate if I engage sexually with someone who's much younger. I don't feel that *everyone* is predatory or inappropriate, but it makes me feel like I am and then I worry about whether I'm causing harm without realizing it. That is an irrational, anxiety/ptsd worry, but a worry all the same.

In other news, I've set a goal of contacting 20 people on Facebook with whom I haven't spoken in a while, 15 people on Fet with whom I either have only spoken at karaoke or don't know at all, and 5 guys on OKC. I gave myself until October 6 to meet the goal. The purpose is just to get better at communicating with people and become more comfortable and confident with reaching out; it doesn't matter if they answer, the point is just for me to reach out to them.

So far I've had great conversations on FB with a guy I used to work with and one of my cousins, and began building more of a friendship with someone from karaoke who I get along with. I started this Wednesday.
 
I'm still keeping up with my contacting people goal. I know it probably sounds like a weird or artificial thing to do, but since one of the reasons I don't really spend time with anyone other than my partners is that I never reach out to people to ask if they want to get together, I'm using this as an exercise to get more comfortable reaching out to people, and on Facebook, at least, I'm reaching out to people I hope to be able to get together with at some point, or to continue communicating on FB if they live too far to get together.

(Some of my FB friends live in Maine, since they're people I knew in high school. My boyfriend suggested that when I contact them, I ask if they'd like to meet halfway for coffee or something, but I question whether any of them would want to see me badly enough, and would have enough time available, to do so. Plus there are only two, maybe three, who I'd actually even want to see...the rest are much better as online-only "friends.")

I went to the club Saturday night. Beforehand, I asked for help in a group that some of the women who go to the club belong to, saying that I feel really shy and awkward and didn't always know what to say. So a few of them said they would help me out, and gave me advice as well as making sure to say hi and talk to me a bit at the club. I didn't really play--though I did some observing and showed myself off a bit--but I made a few new friends, which was cool. A few of the few were guys who I may or may not play with in the future.
 
I think it's a great goal and I'm really impressed with your efforts! I know I need to break out of the shell I've insulated myself in and reach out to people as well but most of the time I can't even manage to hit submit on replies anonymously on this forum. You're doing such a great job. Does it seem like it's getting any easier with practice?
 
It isn't really getting easier, but I'm stubborn. LOL. It is actually a little easier than typical conversation or messaging, because I'm doing this with no expectation of a response, so if I don't get an answer it doesn't bother me. Which is good; mostly I am getting replies, but the two guys I've messaged on OKC haven't answered, and neither has one person I messaged on Fet, which was a private response to an advice/help request post she'd made in a group. I couldn't respond publicly without putting some things out there that I don't want the general public--or some of the people likely to see my Fet posts--to know about, so it made sense to message her.

I don't have a problem replying to posts on forums usually, though after the incident a few months ago that led to the decimation of my old blog, I sometimes have minor anxiety about posting anything here or on Fet. That isn't about social skills, though, that's about not knowing who caused that incident and therefore not completely trusting that the same person won't try to start shit again.

Would it help you to try the way I'm working on this? Like with forum replies, set yourself a goal of a certain number of replies a day, or a week, or whatever, and then when you meet that goal, reward yourself in some way or have a partner or friend help you with a reward. For me, I set a reward of allowing myself to spend $20 on a new item of clothing each time I've reached out to 10 people, and when I meet the final goal of having reached out to 40, if I do it before the deadline I set, my boyfriend is taking me out somewhere that's special to us. (The cool thing about that is that when I asked him if he would help me with the final-goal reward, I had that specific thing in mind but didn't say so, but when he suggested a reward, he suggested exactly what I was thinking.)
 
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I went to the club Saturday night. Beforehand, I asked for help in a group that some of the women who go to the club belong to, saying that I feel really shy and awkward and didn't always know what to say. So a few of them said they would help me out, and gave me advice as well as making sure to say hi and talk to me a bit at the club. I didn't really play--though I did some observing and showed myself off a bit--but I made a few new friends, which was cool. A few of the few were guys who I may or may not play with in the future.
This is very great. I'd be afraid to go to a club alone and probably wouldn't be able to chat any potentials there.
 
I'm happy to hear you found a good way to reach out! I can have similar difficulties being motivated enough to connect to people so reading your success is somewhat comforting.

Leetah
 
So far so good with the connecting. Most of the people I've reached out to have answered. I've even helped a couple of people on Fet, because I responded privately to posts they made in groups.

My boyfriend and I've been talking about me finding a local FWB, and maybe someone online as well. I feel like I'm pretty well saturated in terms of *relationships*, because for me full-fledged relationships take a lot of spoons. But a friendship doesn't feel as pressurey to me as a relationship, and so a friendship that can include sex would be my ideal right now. My wish to find someone online is because I'm at my computer so much doing writing and other work, and being able to chat during that would be cool. Plus an online connection isn't as bound by time, location, and scheduling as an in-person one.

I thought I'd found an FWB, a guy I've known for a few years through the group I met Hubby through, but he's kinda flaked on me. We had one date and said we wanted to see each other again, and he texted me daily for 3-4 days after that, but since then I've only heard from him twice. And each time, when I've answered his text, he hasn't replied. So I don't know what's going on there.

I also met for coffee with a guy who I might see where things go with, though right now I'm leaning more toward not going beyond platonic with him. He's a Dom, and I'm not sure he's grasping that even if I get involved with him, he isn't going to be *my* Dom; I have one of those, and one is all I want.

My boyfriend's been giving me advice on how to talk to guys on Fet and dating sites. Which is just another piece of the weirdness of being poly...

Speaking of which, right now I'm in a Facebook conversation with one of my cousins, trying to explain this to her. She's part of my "trusted people" list, which I set up so I can post about my boyfriend without letting certain people (e.g. Hubby's family and a few seriously, rigidly religious people) find out about the relationship, but I don't post to that list often and she isn't on Facebook much, so she hadn't quite understood. I'm not sure she quite understands now, but at least she's trying to be open-minded about it.
 
So I did finally hear from the guy I knew through the same site where I met Hubby. This not doing nicknames thing is tough, so while keeping my agreement with my boyfriend, I'm going to refer to the guy I'm talking about here as Site-Guy. Not the best name, but easier to consider anonymous...

He and I got together last week. He's been dealing with a lot of personal-life stuff, which was in large part why he hadn't been in touch. But he said he'd invited me over because he wanted to keep seeing me as much as he can, and he wanted to make sure I knew he didn't think of me as only a one-night stand. We won't be able to get together frequently, and when we do it's often going to be kind of last-minute, which is tough because we live an hour apart. But at least he has a place where I can visit him, and he's a really sweet guy. He opened up to me far more last week than he had to, and the amount of trust he put in me was astonishing. I told him I was honored, and that I hope he'll consider me a friend and part of his support system. Or, as I put it later that night when I was in a more playful mood, "Good conversation, good friend, good sex... how can you lose?"

Even without being able to see him often, I definitely consider him a friend. So that's a positive thing.

Meanwhile, Tie-Guy (the other one I mentioned in my last post) and I met up for lunch last week. I'm undecided as to whether I consider him a viable possibility for an FWB. I like him, and he's easy to talk to, but I'm not sure if it will go beyond that. A friend, I would say, but I don't know about the benefits at this point.

A couple of guys have been chatting with me online. Both want to meet. One of them, I think I would like to meet up with. The other seems to believe that not saying no is the same as saying yes, at least in G-rated contexts. (He asked me to dinner and I didn't give him an answer, so he assumed we were going and couldn't understand why I said I'd never told him I was going.) Which means I am not inclined to meet him, because I now don't know whether I could trust him *not* to think that way in a sexual situation. Better safe than sorry.

Alt has moved in with their boyfriend, who has shared custody of his young child, so now I'm a grandmother, apparently... to a child I haven't met yet. Introductions are planned for a time when Country is nearby, rather than away at college. So I'm now also an empty-nester... which hasn't fully set in yet. Maybe because Alt left half their stuff behind...

Yesterday I pushed my comfort zone and participated in a photo shoot for a "boudoir" style charity calendar. Most of the shoots are indoors, but yesterday's was outside...so I was outdoors, with people walking by, wearing a negligee and see-through robe and knee-high leather boots. And not feeling even slightly self-conscious. I don't get to see the photos until after the calendar is released, which will be several months, but the photographer told me they turned out great and some are "perfect."

I fell behind on my "contacting people" goal, but I should still be able to meet it by my deadline as long as I pay attention and remember to actually contact people... I have 9 days left to do it, and need to contact 14 more people. I've gotten some nice responses from some of the people I've reached out to, though others haven't answered.
 
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I met my goal for contacting people. It hasn't led to any *ongoing* contact at this point, which kind of hurts because some of the folks I reached out to on Facebook have said in the past that they wanted to be in touch with me, wanted to hang out, whatever... but each of them had maybe a half-hour conversation with me and I haven't heard from them since. Probably if I reached out to them again, they would do the same thing... but to me, it makes no sense to be the only one reaching out. To me, if I'm the one consistently reaching out to someone and they never talk to me *unless* I reach out, that means they don't actually want to talk to me and are just being nice when they hear from me because they feel sorry for me or something.

I realize that some folks have people in their lives who they only hear from once a year if that, and they still consider those people friends... but that isn't friendship, in my mind. That's "Oh, I know you, I should probably say hi." Friendship, for me, requires more frequent contact than that. Not every day or anything, but at least once or twice a month, for more of a conversation than just "Hi, I'm busy."

I also realize some people are legitimately so busy they don't have time to do that... but those people are not people I can be friends with. I can be, at most, friendly acquaintances, which are the people I say hi to and maybe chat with if I happen to run into them somewhere, and otherwise they're just names on my Facebook feed, if that. They're not friends. They're just people I know who I get along with if I see them.

I'm obviously also guilty of not contacting people frequently, but it isn't because I don't want to talk to them. (Which I realize might also be the case for at least some of the people who don't contact me.) It's a vicious circle where I figure if they wanted to talk to me they would, so I figure they don't want to talk to me, so I don't contact them, so I don't talk to them frequently enough to consider them a friend. But on the other hand, when I *do* contact them, I either get no response or I get a few minutes of conversation, and then I don't hear from them again unless I contact them again. Which completely reinforces to me that they don't want to talk to me, so I probably won't contact them again. To me, friendship goes both ways; if someone doesn't contact me at all ever, why should I contact them?

It sucks, because the intention of reaching out to people was that I hoped to find or reconnect with people I could talk to on a regular basis and maybe even hang out with, and I didn't find any at all who fit that category, even after contacting 40 people between Facebook, Fet, and OKC. So I feel like a complete failure. But even though the intention and hope was to find people I could have ongoing contact with, the *goal* was simply to contact 40 people, and I did that, at least...

In other news, on Saturday I met up for coffee with a guy from Fet. That was not a worthwhile experience. I specifically stated to him that I was meeting *only* for coffee, and *only* for an hour... but he tried to talk me into fooling around with him on the train when he realized we were taking the same train home. When I told him I don't fool around with anyone unless I'm comfortable with them, he asked when I would be comfortable then said he didn't understand why I would do what he wanted since he's a Dom and surely I must want someone to be a Dom to me.

*Eyeroll*

I ended up getting on a different train just to get away from him...and then he kept messaging me asking when he would get to play with me and saying he was going to come see me. (He does NOT know where I live, not even what town.) I finally told him he isn't what I'm looking for. He asked what I was looking for, and I said, "Someone who doesn't expect me to play with him just because I agreed to meet him, who accepts and respects that I have a Dom and am NOT going to have another, and someone who can be my friend and not pressure me for sex every five minutes." He didn't answer. No loss.

Tonight I see my boyfriend. Tomorrow night I get to see Site-Guy. Thursday I get to see my boyfriend again... because it's our one-year anniversary :D
 
Hi KC,
Just want to say that I can really relate to the feelings you're having about contacting people. You're definitely not a failure - you succeeded in meeting your quota for contacting people, so how could you be a failure? The thing is, staying in touch with people and developing or maintaining friendships takes constant effort and energy. And just because you reached out and people responded doesn't mean it's officially going to see-saw back and forth between you on a regular basis from now on. You may have to reach out first a few times again, to let them know you're serious about following through and being in touch. Regular contact is something that, I believe, often has to develop over time. It won't be instantaneous, with most folks. If it works out with one or a few of them, eventually there will come a time when one of them reaches out to you more than once before you can respond. Think of it as a sort of game of leap-frog, where the person that leaps ahead has to reach back and help pull the other one forward. You won't always be the one to take the lead. If it turns out that way over time, then yes, reconsider investing your time and energy there, but I think that at the beginning stages of trying to cultivate friendships, it's a bit premature to write anyone off just yet. You did well, so keep going!
 
I understand what you're saying. But like I said, some of the people were ones who have told me in the past, some more than once, that they wanted to stay in touch and hang out and such, and none of them have been in touch since the day I messaged either. One didn't even answer my message. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I don't mean to sound like "boo hoo poor me." I'm used to people not wanting to be around me, or at least to feeling like they don't and in some cases being told they don't, so I sometimes have to remind myself that just because people don't stay in touch doesn't necessarily mean they don't *want* to.
 
The "kissing a lot of frogs" metaphor is true for seeking friends as much as for lovers. You have to keep meeting people.

I know you do not have hobbies or activities you like to go out and do but if you could even pick something you could do on a regular, even once a month, basis, you would be thrown together with the other people doing it. Conversation and possibly friendship would ensue.

I think you have found a couple of your boyfriend's friends that you felt could be friends with you. Keep building on that. I have friends who joined our circle as the Significant Other of another friend. Even when they broke up and their partner drifted off they are still our friends. One does not need a ton of friends.

Leetah (who pretty much feels as you do)
 
Leetah, part of the problem with "getting out and doing things" is that costs money most of the time. Or at least things I've considered doing in the past that might have resulted in getting to know people have cost money. I don't have any spare income. The only reason I was able to go to the club was that since I go by myself, I'm considered a single woman and so don't have to pay admission. And I'm not even going there anymore, partly because I'm getting paranoid about sexual health after a few conversations I've had on the subject recently, and partly because the distance between me and the club is the same as the distance between me and Site-Guy, and if I'm going to have to spend money on gas I would rather spend it to see him.

As for people who are friends with my boyfriend, only two of them talk to me other than when we happen to be in the same place at the same time. One is an online only friend (so we're never in the same place at the same time; she lives too far away), and the other only talks to me if I reach out. The rest are either really busy or only like me because I'm my boyfriend's girlfriend, so they only talk to me if they happen to see me at an event or something. Some were among the people I contacted during trying to meet my goal, and only two of those even answered.

(To be honest, I wouldn't maintain friendships with friends of an ex, any more than I would maintain a friendship with the ex. If someone hurts me enough that I break up with them, or hurts me *by* breaking up with me, I wouldn't want any reminders of them. Fortunately for me, most of my previous exes haven't had any friends... So even if I actually became friends with any of my boyfriend's friends, those friendships wouldn't survive a breakup.)

Like I said, though, I don't want to sound "boo hoo poor me." Making friends has never been easy for me, and keeping them has always been even more difficult, especially as an adult. I'm awkward as fuck, and a lot of people are nice to me because they see that I"m trying, but they don't actually like me.
 
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Some people like myself are HORRIBLE at keeping in contact with friends. I just don't have enough hours in my day some days. I don't mean to be that way. Even my very close friend of 20+ years who is a world famous musician has to contact me 98% of the time.

My friends have learned to understand I am not going to be the best at reaching out and keeping contact. I mean to reach out I usually just run out of hours. I work two full time jobs. The one in veterinary medicine has crappy hours. I have three kids, two who are 13 and 9 who need my attention when I get home. I have 3 dogs, 2 cats, 3 birds (one of who is a conure and needs a lot of attention) and 2 guinea pigs. Plus I have two husbands who need my attention.

I am sure some friends and aquaintances think I don't care or like them. That so is usually not the case. I am just busy.
 
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