Thirds in a V-from the perspective of a hinge

LovingRadiance

Active member
So-we have this V.

Myself, Maca and GreenGecko.

I am the hinge. I have had long term (11 yrs and 16 yrs respectively) with them. So there is a long-defined pattern to our relationships. This is changing, specifically because we are now an established V.

**** complication to dynamic****​
We all live together.
We're raising our kids in a quad not a V.
My sister is part of the familiy dynamic in nearly all ways-just not sexually with any of us.

Anyway-throughout the length of our marriage (Maca and I) GG has had a "secondary" type of role in most areas of our lives, and less in some.

For example: he could pipe in opinions in regard to the kid-but the final decisions were utimately mine and Maca's. Now to clarify-we always took his thoughts and feelings into consideration, he's not one to say something if it's not important. But it was OUR choice.
In regards to sex, sexual behavior, partners etc, he had no say so and we generally didn't discuss it with him....

Well... this last week really brought home to me one of the significant changes in our "family".

In the space of one week I've been propositioned by someone new.
Maca has been propositioned by someone new.
Maca has participated in a sexual relationship with someone new.

In recieving my proposition (which occurred first) it became glaringly obvious to me on a personal emotional level that this was just something I couldn't do without BOTH of my men being agreeable. Now-it was moot, as I didn't accept the proposition for personal reasons, but the lesson was SO pertinent.

GG is a third in our family.. but he's PRIMARY in our lives and now that the dynamic has changed-that means taking his needs/wants/desires in before decisions are made is a NECESSITY-not an OPTION.

I think this may be where there is a falling apart in some V's and Triads. I think that maybe the "original" couple forgets that this other person may be "new" to the dynamic.This person is invested in the relationship however and their needs MUST be equal priority for it to work.

I only briefly discussed this with Maca, in that I mentioned to him that I could not and would not participate with another lover (even WITH him) without consulting with GG first.

It's not that GG's needs hold priority over Maca's. They don't. It's that they are no LESS important than Maca's.

So-anyway-when all this popped up I was thinking "wow this reminds me of Ceoli's post" (the thirdness of being third). I thought about it for the last couple days and realized-I don't want GG to feel that way. I want him to KNOW that he IS a full 3rd of this partnership. Not some smaller portion.....
 
I think this may be where there is a falling apart in some V's and Triads. I think that maybe the "original" couple forgets that this other person may be "new" to the dynamic.This person is invested in the relationship however and their needs MUST be equal priority for it to work.

Yep. While recognizing that not all triads and V's are built on a dynamic of equity, I think there are many many couples that claim to seek this. The trouble is they almost never realize that they still consider that third person disposable for the sake of saving the primary relationship. That relationship tends to always take priority over the needs of the third. If that's what it is, then fine. But stop claiming to want or have an equal partner in that case, cuz that just ain't what it is.

It sounds like you've transcended that barrier gracefully.
 
Yep. While recognizing that not all triads and V's are built on a dynamic of equity, I think there are many many couples that claim to seek this. The trouble is they almost never realize that they still consider that third person disposable for the sake of saving the primary relationship. That relationship tends to always take priority over the needs of the third. If that's what it is, then fine. But stop claiming to want or have an equal partner in that case, cuz that just ain't what it is.

It sounds like you've transcended that barrier gracefully.

Thank you Ceoli. I take that compliment (last sentence) with a HUGE heart coming from you.

I wonder if the length of my relationships with both men prior to "going poly" has anything to do with my feelings. I can't KNOW if I would feel differently if I hadn't had them here so long. But I THINK I wouldn't.

I find myself a little (smaller little each day) worried that Maca won't reach that point as "smoothly". But then things happen, like this weekend. He knew I was "on edge" with the drama with my Godchildren. He had his first "date" and asked GG to please be there with me/for me EVEN IF I SAID I DIDN'T NEED HIM TO BE. That really suprised me. In the past he would rather I be alone and miserable then ask GG to be with me FOR ANYTHING.

But he's finding himself finally. His TRUE self and God-he's amazing Ceoli!! I can't believe what he's learned and so quickly. And the things he's learning are truly changing the way he deals with the world, our family, GG and his whole life!

I remember when you wrote started that thread, it caught my heart and brought tears to my eyes contemplating how... cold. That's the word, it seemed to elaborate on how COLD people can be. I thought, "I don't want to be that cold to ANYONE in my life, but certainly not one of the precious people I am already deeply, madly in love with."

And I'm SO glad I read that post at the BEGINNING of these changes, it's helped me be so much more consciously aware of the possible problems, which has helped me to navigate more carefully around them!

So thank you and thank you again!!!
 
I get a lot of grief for not accepting or wanting equality within our "v". I know a lot of this has to do with my traditional background. I cannot view their marriage as anything but primary and priority. I don't mind this..in fact it is the key to me being able to be so healthy and have such compersion for their relationship.
I'm probably going to hear it from Redpepper for this comment...but then it's "make up time" !! Woohoo!
 
Mono-I get your point.

But it is a different dynamic.

You don't live with them, so expenses and household things aren't joint.
You don't share a child with them (GG helped raising my oldest and he's the bio-dad of Maca and I's youngest)
You came in the picture 7 months ago? 8? I can't recall. But GG has been my best friend since 1992... I married Maca in 1999. .....

Few differences. ;)
 
And I'm SO glad I read that post at the BEGINNING of these changes, it's helped me be so much more consciously aware of the possible problems, which has helped me to navigate more carefully around them!

That makes me feel really good. So thank YOU for listening!
 
That makes me feel really good. So thank YOU for listening!

No problem Ceoli-I searched high and low for people I could relate to. But the other part of it for me was people to learn from. I don't need someone to say "be kind and talk" (no shit sherlock). What I need is to avoid having to experience every screw up myself!

It's been AWESOME to be able to read through some of the heartbreaks and logical conclusions FROM those heartbreaks, with great suggestions for AVOIDING those same heartbreaks on this forum.

I wish more people would just read-I read through thread all the time and sometimes never say anything. But I always learn something!
 
so, this propostioning that is going on, are they tangible people to have in your lives or are the questions and statements raised about preparing for the future of your "V?"

Mono's situation is indeed different. I have wanted more of what you have LR in terms of approach and living situation, but it's not the right time and I am in no rush to push anything. There is still TONS to work on. The whole dynamic is in no way settled for us. I know it seems like it on here, but it isn't in real life. You are all coming from a far better position to create complete equality.

I wonder however if Maca is in fact completely ready to be okay with GG's role being more important? He says he is, but although you have known each other for years, your "outness" about your relationship with him (after cheating with him for so long) is still fresh and could possibly still sting greatly if Maca and he were to disagree with each other. I guess you'll see :)

good luck, and slow down girl! It's 1 here and I've spent the whole night catching up with you! :D
 
Nice

LR,

Thanks for sharing all that !
See you've stimulated some insightful comments illustrating the different "takes" people may have.
I especially agree that these quandrys bring to light the reason that a lot of Vs and triads fail (maybe "dissolve" might be a better term?). Unfortunately I think it also contributes to negative images many have of a poly lifestyle. Most just call it "drama" ! Who needs it !
Bust just as important, I think it illustrates why some bright, thoughtful person initially coined the phrases "primary" and "secondary" as parts of the lifestyle.
I would think it would be true that most poly relationships started out - at least in some form - as a binary relationship. In most cases this "couple" (married or not - gay or bi or straight etc or not) made a decision to open that binary up.
Is there any other term - or role - for this new entry other than "secondary"? Would many of the binaries (assuming a tight bond) risk destroying that by the entry of the other ? I don't know. But I suspect not.
The quest for "equality" - while being a beautiful and lofty ideal - would seem to require extensive effort & time in MOST cases. Life is short.
In our experience, especially if the "reality" is laid on the table and discussed openly & honestly from day 1, the new "secondary" understands that despite theoretical dreams for any of us, the present is what it is and the future is yet to be determined. We've found easy acceptance of this and actually feel it helps the bonds grow. Maybe it lessens pressures on everyone because everyone understands what his/her role/place is and understands that ALL of that is subject to change & growth.
So in your particular situation (hope I have the order right here?) how do you think GG sees his "role" - where is his comfort zone - if you and Maca were in a position to have make a call on adding to the family in some way ?
Would he be hurt if you two - as the "primaries" felt you needed to make that call ?
Obviously I don't know GG at all, but if I had to guess - although there might be some "hurt" at first - it would be tempered by understanding of the roles you all play in each others life ? That "hurt" wouldn't be from you and Maca really - so much as it would be from the reality of life - that despite our loftiest dreams - things are seldom perfect and aligned with our deepest desires.
Again - hope I didn't get the roles reversed here - don't have the original within reach here to verify.
 
I really shouldbe working right now:).But LR put all this time and effort into starting this post, Its only fair that I read it and then I felt a need to respond...

I respect LR's and GG relationship and In all areas Im willing to consider BOTH of there opinions first and formost. That being said Im still the head of MY household and as such if I feel that there is a need I will address that need and make it a reality.Im not any more important then ither of the two of them and I believe that WE ALL will do the right thing when it comes down to it.I have to trust both of them.

There have been times when each of us has turned a blind eye to reality and refused to accept what was nessecary.When those times arise again( and Im sure they will) . We will guide each other with open and honest communication. Feelings may get hurt but the Love wont die.

Ok have to try to get some work done now:)
 
so, this propostioning that is going on, are they tangible people to have in your lives or are the questions and statements raised about preparing for the future of your "V?"

I'm not sure what you mean by tangible. The proposition to me-absolutely NOT happening. I don't feel that this is the time to even CONSIDER adding anyone new to the dynamic-at least on my end. I won't even CONSIDER any propositions for ANYTHING more than STRICTLY friendship from ANYONE as I've made clear to EVERYONE except Mono (j/k). Seriously though- I just think that would be f'd up.

I feel that we've changed a MAJOR dynamic in our lives by transitioning the relationship and don't feel that bringing in another person would honor the significance of that change or the importance of the time needed to process, institute and "perfect" (for lack of a better word) that change requires.


As for Maca. Honestly-I don't know. If you want more details-pm me.

Mono's situation is indeed different. I have wanted more of what you have LR in terms of approach and living situation, but it's not the right time and I am in no rush to push anything. There is still TONS to work on. The whole dynamic is in no way settled for us. I know it seems like it on here, but it isn't in real life. You are all coming from a far better position to create complete equality.

Believe me-I know all about the major difference between reality and the small piece of a picture one can see online. :) I completely understand what you are saying RP. I hope we are coming from a better position period-equality-inequality. There's a lot going on and to be perfectly frank I really think TOO MUCH is going on.

I wonder however if Maca is in fact completely ready to be okay with GG's role being more important? He says he is, but although you have known each other for years, your "outness" about your relationship with him (after cheating with him for so long) is still fresh and could possibly still sting greatly if Maca and he were to disagree with each other.

Frankly-I don't think he is. Fortunately on that note-Greengecko-like Mono-isn't either. He's very conscious of some of the changes. Some things already WERE more equal-like the kids. But some of the other stuff-no way. As I said before on another thread, I spend EVERY night with Maca-never with GG and that includes being alone Friday-not with GG. There are certainly things that aren't equal in REALITY at this point. But for ME I'm seeing the importance and need for that in order to "live with myself" in terms of ANY "third" not just GG. I feel much the same about my sister who isn't sexually involved in anyway.

One of the "potential" people has a spouse that makes my sister uncomfortable. My sister lives here. This may be Maca's house-but it's her HOME and she has a right to be safe, secure and comfortable in her own home. That puts a big huge red flag/deterrant for that "potential" person because her spouse would be less free to socialize here due to the impact on my sister.

Likewise-I don't think any of the four of us should be "dating" or "seeing" anyone who can't accept everyone in our home on friendly terms or who isn't "kid friendly" since our home is ALWAYS full of kids and THEY need to be the top priority-not our freaking sex drives.

I guess you'll see

good luck, and slow down girl! It's 1 here and I've spent the whole night catching up with you!

I type fast. I was really only online for a short time, then I logged off and went on with my evening. But I had a lot of thoughts in my head. Actually-MANY more than I started threads on-but wasn't sure about sharing them all in such an open community.
 
LR,
Bust just as important, I think it illustrates why some bright, thoughtful person initially coined the phrases "primary" and "secondary" as parts of the lifestyle.
I would think it would be true that most poly relationships started out - at least in some form - as a binary relationship. In most cases this "couple" (married or not - gay or bi or straight etc or not) made a decision to open that binary up.
Is there any other term - or role - for this new entry other than "secondary"? Would many of the binaries (assuming a tight bond) risk destroying that by the entry of the other ? I don't know. But I suspect not.
The quest for "equality" - while being a beautiful and lofty ideal - would seem to require extensive effort & time in MOST cases. Life is short.
In our experience, especially if the "reality" is laid on the table and discussed openly & honestly from day 1, the new "secondary" understands that despite theoretical dreams for any of us, the present is what it is and the future is yet to be determined. We've found easy acceptance of this and actually feel it helps the bonds grow. Maybe it lessens pressures on everyone because everyone understands what his/her role/place is and understands that ALL of that is subject to change & growth.
So in your particular situation (hope I have the order right here?) how do you think GG sees his "role" - where is his comfort zone - if you and Maca were in a position to have make a call on adding to the family in some way ?
Would he be hurt if you two - as the "primaries" felt you needed to make that call ?
Obviously I don't know GG at all, but if I had to guess - although there might be some "hurt" at first - it would be tempered by understanding of the roles you all play in each others life ? That "hurt" wouldn't be from you and Maca really - so much as it would be from the reality of life - that despite our loftiest dreams - things are seldom perfect and aligned with our deepest desires.
Again - hope I didn't get the roles reversed here - don't have the original within reach here to verify.

GG would tolerate any choice if he felt it was a choice I needed. It's really that simple to him. BUT that doesn't delete his feelings-he has them. He's been hurt before. It really really depends on the type of choice in question. Deleting him from the picture-not going to happen. Maca and I have had that conversation many times (feel free to go to my first posts or his for details on how this "mess" of ours evolved) and I'm simply not giving up my friends for a man-even the man I married.
A question of another lover? I would never take another lover without both Maca and GG being agreeable-no matter what Maca wanted. I won't do it.
A question of moving/job changes etc, we've been making those decisions as a "family" for years already....


So I guess really to answer your question more fully I would need more details. :)
 
Full

Thanks LR,
I think that clarified your particular relationship perfectly and it's beautiful that it's evolved to that stage for all of you. Awesome !
And doesn't it kind of point out something else important that we maybe don't talk much about ?
Let's call it "fullness"
I think there may come a point in everyone's life that we become "full". All our physical & emotional needs really seem to be met, our time seems to be all spoken for, and we tend put away the "looking glass". We're happy, content. I think this is just as true for conventional mono relationships as poly.
At this point, "more" could actually prove a complication & burden we just don't need. And at that point the rules seem to change.
I think it's a good place to "be" - maybe even what everyone longs for. And maybe you are there. For now :)
Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone was ? And I guess that is the quest - and acknowledgment - of poly lifestyles. That it's maybe not realistic for many of us to get to that point with a single individual without infringing on THEIR individuality and needs.

Enjoy..........
 
yes GS-
fullness well describes how I feel. I hope and pray that both Maca and GG can find that feeling too!

;)
 
Fullness, totally get the fullness.... I am full like I've had a big meal. I find it interesting that I am more "fit" than I ever have been in my whole life, yet feel so full. Might I suggest that I have replaced the need to be physically full with the need to be emotionally full. Perhaps I was replacing food for love of others and myself?

My co-worker told me the other day that she thinks I now have an eating disorder because I chose to feel hungry sometimes (she is a woman that enjoys her food). She was angry that I have made huge changes and shifts in my relationship to food in the last two years and thinks I have a problem. I find it interesting that we both would eat together and both talked about our feelings of not being complete back then. Now I don't have that feeling and I assume she still does as her life hasn't changed as drastically as mine has.

I told her that I disagreed and that I am happy, and don't have a need to make myself happy with food anymore. Just a thought ...

Sorry, ...I have gone off on so many tangents this morning!!!! you'll all just have to put up with me.... I feel chatty and not into talking so much about poly. Perhaps it will all relate at some point.
 
Fullness, totally get the fullness.... I am full like I've had a big meal. I find it interesting that I am more "fit" than I ever have been in my whole life, yet feel so full. Might I suggest that I have replaced the need to be physically full with the need to be emotionally full. Perhaps I was replacing food for love of others and myself?

My co-worker told me the other day that she thinks I now have an eating disorder because I chose to feel hungry sometimes (she is a woman that enjoys her food). She was angry that I have made huge changes and shifts in my relationship to food in the last two years and thinks I have a problem. I find it interesting that we both would eat together and both talked about our feelings of not being complete back then. Now I don't have that feeling and I assume she still does as her life hasn't changed as drastically as mine has.

I told her that I disagreed and that I am happy, and don't have a need to make myself happy with food anymore. Just a thought ...

Sorry, ...I have gone off on so many tangents this morning!!!! you'll all just have to put up with me.... I feel chatty and not into talking so much about poly. Perhaps it will all relate at some point.

How can you say that doesn't relate to poly my friend! I was sitting here open mouthed telling GG "OMG I think RP and I might be clones with different body types!"
I've noticed just in the last month that my relationship with food is SO completely different and it freaks me out sometimes-but at the same time, I was 216 lbs at my highest-and heartbroken (when I was younger, prior to marriage I was always in EXCELLENT physical shape) and with a LOT of hard work I got to 180. But that was where I got stuck and there was no doubt it was because I wasn't getting my emotional needs met-so I kept "stuffing food in" to fill that emptiness. Now that so many more of my emotional needs are being met, I don't feel like eating so much. I actually eat an almost exactly perfect diet-without thinking about it at all! I've dropped to 166.

Meeting our emotional needs is a HUGE problem today-at least in the US. AND weight problems are a HUGE HUGE issue today-at least in the US. I think that this MUST relate to how we function in relationships-and I poly is certainly a type of relationship!.

We should make a thread on this!
 
A thread indeed. I will work on one. Or you can, which ever. I have a super busy next couple of days and won't get to it soon.

Hosting our monthly poly meeting tomorrow night, wish me luck!
 
A thread indeed. I will work on one. Or you can, which ever. I have a super busy next couple of days and won't get to it soon.

Hosting our monthly poly meeting tomorrow night, wish me luck!

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. We don't have anything like that around here. Maybe eventually. Who knows.

I started the thread-check it out when you have time.
 
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