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  #211  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:38 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I quote these to highlight how Whiskers doesn't show emotion. Which is quite typical of males! Maybe with your other partners it's different. Which is why things are going well with them.

But Whiskers is maybe just enjoying "fun" with you. Sex, good times, light conversation. You however, want to be fully human with him, deeper than surface "fun." You want the whole package.

You say he "makes" your nervous. But no one can make anyone feel anything. Take responsibility for what is yours. You feel uncomfortable around Whiskers because he doesn't show a full range of human emotion around you. However, he may never feel relaxed enough to get to this point. Especially since now you only see each other once a month. He may have chosen you because you have 2 other partners, so he has figured his role is just to be the "fun, casual" partner. That is what he wants. Can you live with that?

Personally, if I had deep relationships with 2 men, I'd be OK with having a third guy, a more casual sex partner, who was fun or funny or really cute eye candy, or relaxing to be around, and the sex was AWESOME. I really enjoy sex while it's happening. And it's a great stress relief that can make my whole week feel brighter. I might feel a tinge of regret this great handsome well-hung, intelligent man only wanted me for sex and fun, and wasn't interested in going higher on the relationship escalator, but I might adjust if it seemed worth it over all. That's the good thing about polyamory, not every partner needs to be the "whole package." We can meet them where they are at, if other things in the relationship make it worth it.

You weren't "stupid." You aren't a "fuck up." Those are self-bullying words. Why be your own bully?
Thank you for your insights. I think you may be right that the (in)frequency of contact may prevent us from developing the kind of relationship I am expecting/wanting.

I dont’t think I am up for just being fun. That’s not really how my brain operates. I can want to have a more limited relationship (never move in together, never have kids together) but it isn’t a relationship to me until I can fully relax and trust the other person — and I can’t really trust someone if they always feel distant to me.

Maybe that is ultimately what I need to figure out — are his goals for the degree of intimacy misaligned with mine?
__________________
Me: 34, F, Bicurious

Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 36, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 36, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: boyfriend —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours and In-Laws
Ginger: Glasses's partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR
Curlycue: Whiskers's wife --> 40, F
Kitchenbear: Curlycue's partner and housemate to Whiskers --> 36, M
Rapunzel: Whiskers's girlfriend --> 40s, F
Chameleon: Rapunzel's husband --> 40s, M
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  #212  
Old 03-13-2019, 05:59 PM
icesong icesong is offline
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I don't know that I would _assume_ that Whiskers only wants fun - I mean, honestly Artist and I floated in that "just fun, not really talking about emotions" space for _years_, slowly moving from "every 2-3 weeks" to "every week or more" - but eventually it became something that is FAR more than "just fun". But that also was much easier because neither of us, I think, had an internal timeline of what it should be by what date (though I admit it was very different than any relationship I've ever had, and if you flip back in my blog a few years, it certainly caused some angst at the time).

I agree that some idea of the goal or at least the ... possibilities? would be useful for you, though.
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Other Dramatis Personae are detailed in my blog.
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  #213  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:28 PM
breathemusic breathemusic is offline
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Does he not talk to you about ANYTHING emotional? Nothing that he's clearly excited about? Really happy about? Etc.?

I guess I'm wondering if him not being open emotionally is about ALL emotions and he's a bit more "robotic" (I don't mean that in a negative way, I myself am jokingly called a robot by a friend). Or is it just that you want him to be more open with his negative feelings of vulnerability and insecurity? If it's only about him not being vulnerable vs him not being emotional.... is it possible that he just ISN'T feeling vulnerable/insecure and so he has nothing to share? If he's feeling really happy with where things are at and enjoys the time you spend together and the conversation that you have, etc. he may not actually really have any insecure or negative or sad thoughts to share. That's not a bad thing. Has he actually indicated in any way that he's holding back?
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Me: 32, female, nesting partner and Domme of Sudo, dating Echo
Sudo: 36, male, lives w/ me, no other current partners
Echo: 34, male, Dom, dating me, married w/ 2 kids

RCT (or Ty): 32, male, mono, current roommate/friend, dad to Lizzy
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  #214  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:43 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breathemusic View Post
Does he not talk to you about ANYTHING emotional? Nothing that he's clearly excited about? Really happy about? Etc.?

I guess I'm wondering if him not being open emotionally is about ALL emotions and he's a bit more "robotic" (I don't mean that in a negative way, I myself am jokingly called a robot by a friend). Or is it just that you want him to be more open with his negative feelings of vulnerability and insecurity? If it's only about him not being vulnerable vs him not being emotional.... is it possible that he just ISN'T feeling vulnerable/insecure and so he has nothing to share? If he's feeling really happy with where things are at and enjoys the time you spend together and the conversation that you have, etc. he may not actually really have any insecure or negative or sad thoughts to share. That's not a bad thing. Has he actually indicated in any way that he's holding back?
So here’s where this all gets really interesting for me to contemplate....because no, I don’t get the impression that he is holding back at all. I had frames it in terms of asking him if he is comfortable kind of in the hopes that he WAS holding back for some reason, but really I am pretty sure that his affect is representative of exactly the depth of his emotions — and that is what makes me feel so insecure.

It’s the fact that I don’t think he is holding anything back that makes me feel like a mess — as far as I can tell, he is totally content with how things are and has neither worries and concerns, nor giddy excitement....about anything, but especially not about me. So if I am giddy or excited or worried or anxious (and, true to my screenname, I am all of these things), I feel like I am showing him that I care. Whether I am feeling good or bad about something...I care and I am showing that I care. At the end of the day, I don’t know if he cares about this relationship. I know he likes it. I know that it brings him some sense of happiness. But I don’t know if he cares one way or another about whether it continues, whether it grows, or whether it ends.
__________________
Me: 34, F, Bicurious

Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 36, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 36, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: boyfriend —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours and In-Laws
Ginger: Glasses's partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR
Curlycue: Whiskers's wife --> 40, F
Kitchenbear: Curlycue's partner and housemate to Whiskers --> 36, M
Rapunzel: Whiskers's girlfriend --> 40s, F
Chameleon: Rapunzel's husband --> 40s, M
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  #215  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:45 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breathemusic View Post
Does he not talk to you about ANYTHING emotional? Nothing that he's clearly excited about? Really happy about? Etc.?

I guess I'm wondering if him not being open emotionally is about ALL emotions and he's a bit more "robotic" (I don't mean that in a negative way, I myself am jokingly called a robot by a friend). Or is it just that you want him to be more open with his negative feelings of vulnerability and insecurity? If it's only about him not being vulnerable vs him not being emotional.... is it possible that he just ISN'T feeling vulnerable/insecure and so he has nothing to share? If he's feeling really happy with where things are at and enjoys the time you spend together and the conversation that you have, etc. he may not actually really have any insecure or negative or sad thoughts to share. That's not a bad thing. Has he actually indicated in any way that he's holding back?
So here’s where this all gets really interesting for me to contemplate....because no, I don’t get the impression that he is holding back at all. I had framed it in terms of asking him if he is comfortable kind of in the hopes that he WAS holding back for some reason, but really I am pretty sure that his affect is representative of exactly the depth of his emotions — and that is what makes me feel so insecure.

It’s the fact that I don’t think he is holding anything back that makes me feel like a mess — as far as I can tell, he is totally content with how things are and has neither worries and concerns, nor giddy excitement....about anything, but especially not about me. So if I am giddy or excited or worried or anxious (and, true to my screenname, I am all of these things), I feel like I am showing him that I care. Whether I am feeling good or bad about something...I care and I am showing that I care. At the end of the day, I don’t know if he cares about this relationship. I know he likes it. I know that it brings him some sense of happiness. But I don’t know if he cares one way or another about whether it continues, whether it grows, or whether it ends.

So yeah, maybe he is just kind of robotic and that is just his normal state... but if my normal state is emotional, then is this just not a relationship that I can be comfortable in?
__________________
Me: 34, F, Bicurious

Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 36, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 36, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: boyfriend —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours and In-Laws
Ginger: Glasses's partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR
Curlycue: Whiskers's wife --> 40, F
Kitchenbear: Curlycue's partner and housemate to Whiskers --> 36, M
Rapunzel: Whiskers's girlfriend --> 40s, F
Chameleon: Rapunzel's husband --> 40s, M

Last edited by MsEmotional; 03-14-2019 at 11:48 PM.
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  #216  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:16 AM
Tinwen Tinwen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsEmotional View Post
But I don’t know if he cares one way or another about whether it continues, whether it grows, or whether it ends.
Maybe you could ask about that specifically?
Quote:
So yeah, maybe he is just kind of robotic and that is just his normal state... but if my normal state is emotional, then is this just not a relationship that I can be comfortable in?
What causes the discomfort? Is it that you feel you can't be emotional around him if he isn't?

What happens if you share your emotions without expecting him to share emotions back? SOME people are shallow in their inner life, but still good listeners. They can give valuable feedback that will help you snap out of whatever emotional tangle. Of course, other people can't handle displays of emotion.
Try finding out if there's a way you can be comfortably yourself around him by experimenting in a reasonable pace.
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  #217  
Old 03-15-2019, 04:19 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Ms Emotional, icesong and breathesmusic bring up interesting thoughts to me about my partner Pixi's bf. They also had a very slow start to their relationship. Her bf was slow to be open and vulnerable. I'm thinking something just built in him, and things about his childhood making him have issues around trust.

At first she wondered if he was somewhat on the autism spectrum, but after a while she decided that probably wasn't the case.

Pixi would be all giddy and NRE lala with him, and he'd gently laugh and tell her she was like a lovestruck schoolgirl. But he kept wanting her around. It's been 5, nearly 6 years now. He is still not one to say I love you. But he will say he misses her a lot and is sad when their usual date gets postponed for whatever reason. Anyone can tell she is really important to him. It's just been a very gradual evolution of trust. She is more on the submissive side, so she just let him be him, and never acted impatient or pushy. And they are solid.
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Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
BigGuy (poly, M, married, 43, dating me since June 2018)
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  #218  
Old 03-17-2019, 08:37 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Default The Sadness of Being Right

I had written a whole long post this morning and it got deleted....I’m going to try to recreate it.

In a nutshell, I hate it when my instincts were right and I have confirmation that all my fears were legit. My anxiety goes away, but it is replaced with grief.

Whiskers and I talked again. Here are some bullets of what was said:

1. He doesn’t have any problems with our relationship and so he hasn’t brought anything to me to be concerned about, but he knows that he could if he needed to.

2. His lack of emotional intelligence/expression is something that he is aware of and has impacted other relationships, but he doesn’t know how to fix it.

3. He rarely ever expresses an emotional need, but when he does, he goes to his wife because he is closest to her.

4. He never wanted or expected our relationship to become deeper than it is — he wasn’t looking for emotional depth in his other relationships since becoming poly.

I think he could sense how sad this all made me and he spent a fair amount of the time in the latter part of our conversation trying to figure out what he needed to say to fix it. It was really heartbreaking because there was nothing that he could say that would “fix” it — at one point he said, “okay, so what I am hearing is that you want me to clarify my feelings for you,” and I nearly burst into tears because the idea of him telling me — again — that he just wants to have fun and enjoy sex and spend time together but not have it ever go any deeper than that and what’s so wrong with that? made me feel so sad and empty and awful. I said, “no, I really don’t think you need to clarify that agin. I feel like you have done that, it just sounds like at this point I need to figure out if that’s the kind of relationship that I can be in. I don’t have any experience with the kind of relationship you are describing. I don’t know how to be in a relationship that doesn’t have an emotional core.”

We left things unresolved. He recognized that my feelings were too confused for me to “make a decision.” That this was a good and important conversation, but that it had raised other feelings that I needed to deal with.

I feel so sad. This is always my worst fear with kinda-distant guys: that the reason they are kinda-distant isn’t that they are afraid to express their feelings about me, but that they just don’t really have feelings for me period. I guess I shouldn’t take it personally — the way he described his reactions to previous break-ups was that he was always, “oh well, that’s over.” (And this is what clued him in to the that maybe he doesn’t have a lot of emotional intelligence.) So the fact that he is kinda “I could take it or leave it” about this relationship is not a new phenomenon for him.

I’ve been trying to think about whether I could be happy continuing like this with him — if I can be satisfied with what we have, now knowing that that’s really all there is or will ever be. I just don’t know.
__________________
Me: 34, F, Bicurious

Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 36, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 36, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: boyfriend —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours and In-Laws
Ginger: Glasses's partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR
Curlycue: Whiskers's wife --> 40, F
Kitchenbear: Curlycue's partner and housemate to Whiskers --> 36, M
Rapunzel: Whiskers's girlfriend --> 40s, F
Chameleon: Rapunzel's husband --> 40s, M

Last edited by MsEmotional; 03-17-2019 at 09:21 PM.
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  #219  
Old Yesterday, 11:45 AM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is offline
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My guess is that you are indeed struggling to find an emotional core without the option of an escalating relationship. My emotional core would be in the shared memories and intimacy we have. Of course, time would deepen that emotional core unless one of us were actively preventing it.


Basically I think you will have a relationship that increases in emotional intimacy over time if you just spend time together that you both enjoy. I think you feel (maybe subconsciously) that can't happen without being somewhere in the escalator.
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  #220  
Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEASONEDpolyAgain View Post
My guess is that you are indeed struggling to find an emotional core without the option of an escalating relationship. My emotional core would be in the shared memories and intimacy we have. Of course, time would deepen that emotional core unless one of us were actively preventing it.


Basically I think you will have a relationship that increases in emotional intimacy over time if you just spend time together that you both enjoy. I think you feel (maybe subconsciously) that can't happen without being somewhere in the escalator.
Maybe.

I guess I see the relationship escalator as more of a set of social expectations more than a difference in feelings. And maybe that is part of what is going on here....but a big thing for me is that I am falling for him. That is how I am — I can’t have sex with someone and spend time with them and think they are funny and have common interests with them without falling in love with them. I am actively holding back on saying “I love you” because I know he isn’t even remotely there yet — but now it sounds like he won’t *ever* feel the same for me. The discrepancy between our feelings for each other is only going to grow wider if this is just how he is. I am scared of the day when we break up and I am heartbroken and crying while he is shrugging, “oh well. That’s over.”

I guess what makes me so sad is that I want him to have some feelings for me that are deeper than, “I like having sex and talking with her.” I just feel so alone in my feelings for him.

He texted me yesterday saying that he felt sad and inadequate after our conversation. He said he feels like he is deficient as a human being, but doesn’t know how to change it. I feel bad — I know he wishes he could flip a switch and meet my needs....I wish it didn’t bother me that he is like this.

I don’t know what to do. I just feel like I can see the writing on the wall and it spells out “you are going to get hurt.”
__________________
Me: 34, F, Bicurious

Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 36, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 36, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: boyfriend —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours and In-Laws
Ginger: Glasses's partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR
Curlycue: Whiskers's wife --> 40, F
Kitchenbear: Curlycue's partner and housemate to Whiskers --> 36, M
Rapunzel: Whiskers's girlfriend --> 40s, F
Chameleon: Rapunzel's husband --> 40s, M
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