Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Articles

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-15-2018, 03:26 PM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 3,502
Default

I'm reading this article now. I paused to find this thread so I could post it here.

Casual Sex, Or Casual Love?
By Rachel Forshee, February 17th 2014
https://thoughtcatalog.com/rachel-fo...r-casual-love/

Maybe we can chat about it?

This excerpt really stood out as significant to me:

Quote:
And it’s a funny thing when you go out knowing you’re looking for sex. You tend not to think of people as individuals – with their own hopes and dreams and desires, or that you’re even going to share an experience together. You tend to discount them as autonomous individuals at all and just focus on what you can get out of (or get off on) the situation. It’s a very transactional, capitalist, and … yes… cynical way of looking at humanity.
__________________
male, bisexual & biamorous
1 long term male partner of many years.
Occasionally dating others but never seeming to form anything lasting and real.

Last edited by River; 11-15-2018 at 03:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-15-2018, 03:54 PM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 3,502
Default

Okay, I've finished reading the article I linked above.

I found it helpful in getting more intimate with myself -- my own thoughts and feelings....

I'm exploring a new friendship ("with benefits"), and its entirely unlike anything I've experienced before. The lines which divide this from that are not at all non-existant; but they are not crisply clear, either. We're not "dating" in the usual "romantic" sense. Nor are either of us wanting sex or touch without feeling. And we talk, as in really talk. He wants to be "vulnerable" with all of his friends, be they FWB or otherwise. So there's real intimacy and care here, not just sex.

I think a lot of folks see the Friends With Benefits (FWB) category as "not a real relationship" -- and not a real friendship. But that's what he has to offer and what he wants, and that's fine with me. After all, we live fifty miles apart and I'm not likely to see him often -- and he's half my age (but damn mature for his relative youth).

Sharp, hard lines can be easier in certain respects, but there's no sharp had line between true FWBs and "true loves". That line is blurry, vague, mysterious -- to a point. Especially for a guy like me who has never deliberately and explicitly explored a real friend FWB before. I've thought about 'em, and what it might be like, but now it's real and it's happening. Now, for the first time, I have to work out in practice "How not to seem to be demanding or wanting more than the FWB we're exploring" even though the FWB we're exploring is explicitly also intimate, affectionate, caring ... a real friendship and not just a "casual sex" thing.

FWB implies a line, but precisely what kind of line that is is ... fuzzy. And I want to become comfortable with that.
__________________
male, bisexual & biamorous
1 long term male partner of many years.
Occasionally dating others but never seeming to form anything lasting and real.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-29-2018, 03:37 PM
JackDarlene JackDarlene is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Fairview Heights, IL
Posts: 9
Default Okay, let's define the term

Not to dis anyone at all, but I see a lot of posts throwing the word "love" around yet I'm not certain that everyone means the same thing by it. So, how are we defining "love"? I'm in love with my wife and we're in love with our quad partners and they love us back. Does that mean the same thing to everyone? We define "love" as a condition where someone else's welfare and happiness is, in our own minds, as important (or even more important) than our own welfare and happiness. How do you define it? If we're going to be talking about it, we should make sure that we all mean the same thing(s) by the term, shouldn't we?

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-29-2018, 11:58 PM
kdt26417's Avatar
kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
Official Greeter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Yelm, Washington
Posts: 17,725
Default

A quick look at Wiktionary tells us that love has no single definition. Either the person writing/speaking the word must explain which definition is intended, or the person reading/hearing the word must guess based on the context.
__________________
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-05-2019, 08:25 PM
alibabe_muse's Avatar
alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 373
Talking

This is a great discussion and after reading all the articles and comments it hit me that as we “relationship” differently (we are of course all independent individuals) we also “love” differently. And what we forget is that’s okay.

I love each person I’m in relationships with, whether romantic, sexual, being a mother and even work as well as friends. Now I’m not going to tell my co-workers I love them. That statement would have no real meaning to them except get freaked out. But I do by my actions with them convey I care for them.


I just very recently tried breaking up with my paramour because I love him. I was afraid to tell him as I knew he’d take it as a request for hearing it back and for long term commitment. But I told him I love him. It felt good. And yes his initial response was as I knew it would be. So I had to explain my love, easing his fears of his interpretation of the word love.

I learned it’s okay to verbalize my feelings but to include the definition of what that feeling means to me. It’s a risk but well worth being myself than hiding myself.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-20-2019, 06:41 AM
roryjo roryjo is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2
Default

This thread has been really enlightening for me. I read the main article posted as well as the second article posted and all the commentary. I'm still kind of processing my thoughts here...
My fiance and I are in the process of opening up our relationship; he has fairly recently discovered he is poly, and I am fairly certain I am not (although I think I could be non-monogamous, but also there's a good chance that I'm simply too hung up on labels in general). Being polyamorous is a scary prospect for me because it requires LOVE. It's right there in the name! For me, as a monogamous person for 38 years and counting (because we haven't actually gone outside of our relationship yet) LOVE in a romantic sense means all of the escalator stuff: marriage, babies (well, not for us as I don't have all my baby making parts, but still...), growing old together, choosing a home when one of us gets too sick or frail or whatever when we're 83. So the idea that there could be more than ONE of these great loves is kinda terrifying.
I have a lot more reading to do, obviously. I have more fears and curiosities that I need to deal with. But these articles about love have started to help my mind wrap around the idea that love isn't...scary. (Even as I type that I recognize its ridiculousness, and yet it feels true ) Love comes in all kinds of shapes and sizes and intensities, and that's okay. I'm not sure I totally grasp it, but I think this thread has helped me start to
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:07 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 530
Default

These definitions definitely don't work for me, and that's okay. The argument I tend to use when I'm talking to people is that I don't order pasta when what I really want is lasagna (don't use the vague word when a precise word works better). I feel that broadening the definition of words waters them to the point of unintelligibility- that people no longer understand exactly what we're trying to say.

While I got nothing against the concept of casual "love", I think it needs a new word all its own so that it doesn't render the meaning of the word love so diluted that it lacks meaning.

Also, and I am sure people won't agree with me, but that line in the main article about feeling "love" on a weekend fling? To me, that cheapens the concept of love in general. No, what I feel when I'm in lust and having a great fling is nothing like what I feel for my husband.

I like casual sex. So this isn't about sex being less or anything like that. It's just that I believe that we should be generally making language more specific, not less so. Communication is for being understood. Why make it even more difficult? If you have to explain what you mean every time you use a word, maybe it's not the best word to be using.

Just my thoughts.
__________________
Me: 36 yrs, poly pansexual Dominant woman.
My People:
Henry, 32yrs, my husband & collared submissive (5yrs), poly, pansexual, currently no other partners.
Charles, 27yrs, my boyfriend (1yr), poly, heteroflexible, currently no other partners.
Jennifer, 44yrs, ex girlfriend but very close friend.
Mark/xH, ex husband (10yrs married, 2yrs divorced).

Last edited by Vicki82; 02-26-2019 at 02:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-24-2019, 07:33 PM
Spork's Avatar
Spork Spork is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 2,579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki82 View Post
These definitions definitely don't work for me, and that's okay. The argument I tend to use when I'm talking to people is that I don't order pasta when what I really want is lasagna (don't use the vague word when a precise word works better). I feel that broadening the definition of words waters them to the point of unintelligibility- that people no longer understand exactly what we're trying to say.

While I got nothing against the concept of casual "love", I think it needs a new word all its own so that it doesn't render the meaning of the word love so diluted that it lacks meaning.

Also, and I am sure people won't agree with me, but that line in the main article about feeling "love" on a weekend fling? To me, that cheapens the concept of love in general. No, what I feel when I'm in lust and having a great fling is nothing like what I feel for my husband.

I like casual sex. So this isn't about sex being less or anything like that. It's just that I believe that we should be generally making language more specific, not less so. Communication is for being understood. Why make it even more difficult? If you have to explain what you mean every time you use a word, maybe it's not the best word to be using.

Just my thoughts.
I don't agree; I don't think that the word or concept of "love" is cheapened by over use. But you aren't alone in this thought, I've encountered it before, for sure.

I think we are already at a place where "love" does not mean the same thing in different contexts and most people use it anyways. If it is cheapened, it was cheapened way before people started talking about polyamory. We love our new car, we love the mac & cheese at Panera. We love our pets, our parents, our kids, our partners. I love to watch a beautiful sunrise or sunset. It is easy enough for most of us to know when it's being used in a hyperbolic way.

The only time people get threatened by it, that I know of, is when we are confronted by a romantic prospect expressing it and we fear they are very invested when we are not that invested (yet, or at all.) I was going to say "when it's not appropriate" also but you know...I could even find ways of jokingly saying it to certain coworkers and if I did it right, it wouldn't bother them at all. It's not the words, then, but the tone...

But I digress.

I would like to live in a world where anyone could express themselves using the word "love" whenever they felt moved to do so, and the recipient would not bundle it up with a bunch of assumptions. I generally advocate that when a person feels concerned or uncertain about something that is said, rather than making an assumption...especially a worst-case one...ask for clarity. Discuss. More communication, not less.

And I see the endeavor to limit and explicitly define terms in a precise manner to be pretty futile. We could come to an agreement about it here, but in the greater world, people will still express themselves as they please. We cannot control them. We can only try to understand...and getting into the habit of asking for clarity rather than assuming can have broader applications that pay dividends in all of our human relationships.

I guess I'm saying that to me, demanding universally understood, strictly defined terminology, is demanding to be safe in making assumptions. Sooner or later, it'll bite ya.
__________________
Spork 40 F
Zen Sadist 60 M - Sadomasochistic Top, Lover, Primary partner.

Analyst, Fire & Hefe My poly quad from August 2015 to July 2016. As Fire says, "Chosen Family."

Blood:
Ninja- 20, Son
Q- 17, Son

Old Wolf- Ex Husband
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:57 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
I don't agree; I don't think that the word or concept of "love" is cheapened by over use. But you aren't alone in this thought, I've encountered it before, for sure.

I think we are already at a place where "love" does not mean the same thing in different contexts and most people use it anyways. If it is cheapened, it was cheapened way before people started talking about polyamory. We love our new car, we love the mac & cheese at Panera. We love our pets, our parents, our kids, our partners. I love to watch a beautiful sunrise or sunset. It is easy enough for most of us to know when it's being used in a hyperbolic way.

The only time people get threatened by it, that I know of, is when we are confronted by a romantic prospect expressing it and we fear they are very invested when we are not that invested (yet, or at all.) I was going to say "when it's not appropriate" also but you know...I could even find ways of jokingly saying it to certain coworkers and if I did it right, it wouldn't bother them at all. It's not the words, then, but the tone...

But I digress.

I would like to live in a world where anyone could express themselves using the word "love" whenever they felt moved to do so, and the recipient would not bundle it up with a bunch of assumptions. I generally advocate that when a person feels concerned or uncertain about something that is said, rather than making an assumption...especially a worst-case one...ask for clarity. Discuss. More communication, not less.

And I see the endeavor to limit and explicitly define terms in a precise manner to be pretty futile. We could come to an agreement about it here, but in the greater world, people will still express themselves as they please. We cannot control them. We can only try to understand...and getting into the habit of asking for clarity rather than assuming can have broader applications that pay dividends in all of our human relationships.

I guess I'm saying that to me, demanding universally understood, strictly defined terminology, is demanding to be safe in making assumptions. Sooner or later, it'll bite ya.
I think you're making an assumption there as well- I'm not threatened by people's casual use of the word love. I might not agree with it, but it doesn't matter to me. What I like and appreciate is clear and concise communication.

Well, we're all different and looking for different things in partners. To me, part of shared experience is having a shared lexicon. I don't want to be repeatedly asking for clarifications or definitions if words are so muddied that they don't have much meaning anymore.

It's one thing to clarify occasionally if you're on the same page about something. But the whole point of communication is to communicate- and I don't see that broadening definitions helps that in any way shape or form. It would frustrate me to engage with someone who preferred words to be one size fits all. To me, encouraging people to broaden language beyond utility makes no sense.

But I suppose that's what keeps the world interesting, eh?
__________________
Me: 36 yrs, poly pansexual Dominant woman.
My People:
Henry, 32yrs, my husband & collared submissive (5yrs), poly, pansexual, currently no other partners.
Charles, 27yrs, my boyfriend (1yr), poly, heteroflexible, currently no other partners.
Jennifer, 44yrs, ex girlfriend but very close friend.
Mark/xH, ex husband (10yrs married, 2yrs divorced).
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:53 PM
Spork's Avatar
Spork Spork is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 2,579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki82 View Post
I think you're making an assumption there as well- I'm not threatened by people's casual use of the word love. I might not agree with it, but it doesn't matter to me. What I like and appreciate is clear and concise communication.

Well, we're all different and looking for different things in partners. To me, part of shared experience is having a shared lexicon. I don't want to be repeatedly asking for clarifications or definitions if words are so muddied that they don't have much meaning anymore.

It's one thing to clarify occasionally if you're on the same page about something. But the whole point of communication is to communicate- and I don't see that broadening definitions helps that in any way shape or form. It would frustrate me to engage with someone who preferred words to be one size fits all. To me, encouraging people to broaden language beyond utility makes no sense.

But I suppose that's what keeps the world interesting, eh?
Oh, certainly. And in partner choice, I definitely agree with you that it's good to understand what your partner means by things.

I guess my thought was more in context of a community's use of language, where there are a lot of people applying interpretations, so the need to explain things, well... I'm not comfortable saying that my definition of a term is how it should be for everyone. I like it, my definition, and I like to talk about it, but I don't feel it's more valid than yours or anyone's.

And I personally also do better with partners who are more flexible with the word, than not. I've had good experiences and results in that. I feel it's part of the how and why, that even after breaking up with my quad, years ago, I still feel very connected and like chosen family to at least two of them these days, which is something I always want. Just because I don't feel I can be someone's girlfriend, doesn't mean I don't still have strong feelings for them. And to me, "love" describes a feeling, not intent and actions.
__________________
Spork 40 F
Zen Sadist 60 M - Sadomasochistic Top, Lover, Primary partner.

Analyst, Fire & Hefe My poly quad from August 2015 to July 2016. As Fire says, "Chosen Family."

Blood:
Ninja- 20, Son
Q- 17, Son

Old Wolf- Ex Husband
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:30 AM.