Redpepper's journey

Thanks, NYCindie. I am enjoying seeing where it all goes. :)

I don't think Leo is a schmuck, and I don't think he only wanted me around as a decoration. We just missed our boat way back when. I think he just had some priorities, other than me, that pulled him away from me.

I don't really know what happened in the end. I am sure there is stuff that I just didn't understand. He's on a different path now, and whether it will cross mine again, I don't know. But I don't hate him or think less of him. My understanding of things was different than his, and it tore us apart. In the end, we just were not compatible. It is what it is. :)
 
I have to admit, I'm afraid. I'm doing my best to face my fears, but quite frankly, I don't think I can, without something solid to feel reassured about. I'm afraid that Mono will hit the roof if I decide to make my new friend another partner. Either that, or leave me, because he finds himself unable to handle it, or loses interest in me sexually.

I'm afraid that Derby will feel left out due to constricted time or will be indoctrinated with my new friend's ex needing support.

I'm afraid that PN will feel his sex life with me threatened, as we don't have sex often. We get along better than ever, but our sex life is not very frequent. I fear he will be jealous.

I fear that I will be yelled at by my new friend's ex. She is doing great, according to him: really getting on with her life, working hard on herself. I wonder if she is doing that to prove a point or to get back at him in some way. ("See, I don't need you.") I am waiting for the other shoe to drop, as their break-up has seemed too easy, so far. Time will tell.

I'm afraid my new friend is not getting his needs met sexually, as he seems to have been used to a great sex life with his ex, just not a great relationship life. I am not putting out. Although he says he doesn't want that and would rather not than wreck our friendship, I can see all over his face that he desires that closeness and wishes we had that together. He looks sad about it, actually. I'm not sure what that's about, but it makes me wonder if he's thinking I'm leading him on.

I can't predict where my feelings will end up. So I feel guilty that I am not able to give him what he needs. I have suggested several people he could date or have sex with, but he's waiting for me. Besides, he's decided that just sex is not going to work for him anymore. He's had that and it hasn't been a healthy situation for him.

This whole thing brings all the stuff with Leo up, again and again. I feel very stuck. I know I have to just take a chance, but I can't seem to put myself over that edge because of this fear of being hurt, abandoned, making someone angry or disappointed, threatened or jealous.

I know it could very well be worth it, just to see. I know I have no control over anyone but myself. But when does considering others end and considering myself start? I am happy where I am at, I think. I have a full and busy life with some wonderful partners, family and friends. Do I really have room for more? Do I need more?

I remind myself that love is abundant, but time isn't. I spend little time with him, and that will likely continue. I can't see how the time thing will change from what we have been doing for about 6 weeks now. It's just my head that has to change, maybe a little bit of the circumstances.

I feel so anxious and uptight after the visit I had with him today. I told him that I would like to be asked on a date in a couple of months, if he is interested in that. But I would prefer he bring it up with my partners first, as a respect thing to them. I suggested he let them know he would like to ask me out, when he is ready, and then we could have a proper date.

He looked confused and said he would, but wasn't sure why I would ask this. I told him because I wanted my partners to know that we would be hanging out together in a different way than what we have been, by way of being official about the difference somehow. I'm not entirely sure why I need that. He has spoken to them and checked it out already. Maybe it's a lot to ask, as a boundary?

I dunno. I'm flailing here. I really am lost on this one. I'm hoping it will all come to light, somehow. Patience, patience and pacing. Gah! Poly's hard work sometimes, like, all the time. ;) :D
 
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Life has a way of working itself out the way it's supposed to. The thought of change is always frightening. The thing is, you're going to have to do what feels right for you. Like you've said to many other people here, there isn't any hurry. I'm pretty sure I'm not just speaking for myself here: I want to see you happy. If it's going to increase your happiness to include your new friend as a partner, then that's what you should do. We regret things we chose not to do far more than things that we chose to do, most of the time. Fears are normal and being able to put what you're afraid of out there means that you're going to be able to get the reassurance you need.
 
Thanks, sweets. :) Thanks for being such a wonderful person in my life. You are very precious to me. *hugs. See you later.

There is something sad about all this. I'm not sure what. My new friend seems sad and that makes me feel sad.
 
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I'm afraid that PN will feel his sex life with me threatened as we don't have sex often. We get along better than ever, but our sex life is not very frequent. I fear he will be jealous.

Can I repeat what I've seen you tell others-- TALK TO HIM. Are you really afraid he would be jealous? Or are you feeling like you are caught up in NRE and neglecting him? It sounds to me like you might be missing him and sexy date nights are in order.

I'm afraid he is not getting his needs met sexually, as he seems to have been used to a great sex life with his ex, just not a great relationship life.

This is NOT your responsibility to fix! Just because you enjoy his company and he might be sexually frustrated doesn't mean you have push yourself into something you don't feel comfortable with.

I am not putting out. Although he says he doesn't want that and would rather not than wreck our friendship, I can see all over his face that he desires that closeness and wishes we had that together. He looks sad about it, actually. I'm not sure what that is about. But it makes me feel like he might think I am leading him on. I can't predict where my feelings will end up and so feel guilty that I am not able to give him what he needs. I have suggested several people he could date or have sex with, but he's waiting for me. Besides, he's decided that just sex is not going to work for him any more. He's had that and its not been a healthy situation for him.

Stop stressing about what you think you read on his face. It sounds like you might be projecting things onto this guy based on your experience with Leo and others in your past. Stating that you're not ready to cross certain lines is NOT leading him on. If he needs more, it's his responsibility to speak up, not yours to guess and feel guilty about words unsaid.

Deep breath. Sit back and just enjoy his company.
 
Can I repeat what I've seen you tell others? TALK TO HIM. Are you really afraid he would be jealous, or are you feeling like you are in NRE and neglecting him? Sounds to me like possibly you are missing him. Sexy date nights are in order.
I don't think I have been neglecting him in any way, than maybe sexually. I am trying not to feel guilty, because when I do I just put out and don't connect with him when we have sex. We've talked about it. It's not anything new. Its part of our usual eb and flow. We never really did have an exuberant sex life, I don't think. Its good, but not frequent. Married sex can be like that sometimes. ;)

As for NRE, I am not allowing myself to feel that. I wonder if I have any. Also something to wait and see about.

This is NOT your responsibility to fix! Just because you enjoy his company and he might be sexually frustrated doesn't mean you have push yourself into something you don't feel comfortable with yet.
Yes, I agree. I don't push myself to put out anymore, with anyone. I just end up feeling resentful, pressured and used when I do.

I feel sad for him that he misses that kind of closeness.

Stop stressing about what you think you read on his face. Sounds like you might be projecting things onto this guy based on your experience with Leo and others in your past. Stating that your not ready to cross certain lines is NOT leading him on and if he needs more it's his responsibility to speak up, not yours to guess and feel guilty about words unsaid.

Deep breath. Sit back and just enjoy his company.
It turns out I was right, he is feeling sad, but it's mostly about what he hasn't given to his kids, due to his past. He realises now how much his life could have been different years ago and that it took so long to make those changes. I don't feel I can explain much more than that. He is sad underneath the happy smile.

He did tell me that I am a huge source of happiness in his life because I listen to him, ask questions, am teaching him some things and care about him in a way he has never had before. He says he loves me for that. It brings him happiness that I have become someone of value in his life, in terms of being a reminder that he can ask for his needs to be met, feel worthy of love and attention and that he is worth working on issues with.

He does need to speak up. I do need to keep my boundaries. Thanks for that reminder, and all your reminders, SNeacail.
:)
 
RP, I think there are a few things you need to do.

First, you just really need to ask yourself what you want. Not what you think will be best for everyone, not what you think might be expected of you, but what YOU want. When you're with your new friend (NF for short?), do you feel like you want to get closer, share more emotional and physical intimacy? Is there an urge or a tug that you cannot shake, that you feel you must explore? Or are you perfectly satisfied with a close platonic friendship with him?

It sounds like you want more than a platonic friendship, since you told him you'd like to go out on a date with him eventually.

Once you figure that out, you will know whether to back off and ask NF to respect your boundaries, or to start talking more seriously with your current partners about this. And then take baby steps to renegotiate your agreements and boundaries with them. Maybe NF will be more like a FWB than a partner. I know that's not usually your thing, but it could work.

Regarding PN and Mono (I'm not including Derby since she's already read this and written to you, so she's in the loop), there is also nothing wrong with saying to them how confused and scared you are: "Hey guys, I'm confused and don't know what to do, and I worry about how you would feel if I have an additional lover, and I want to do everything I can to stay connected with you both."

You say that you're afraid Mono will hit the roof. Just try not to get defensive and wind up in a fight if he does. But somehow, I think he won't. I think he will probably be willing to talk as much as you need to with him. Ask him to examine within himself if he can handle it, or if he thinks he would lose interest in you. Ask him how committed he would be to you if there was one more man in your life. I know you will not take any steps unless you have reached some sort of agreement for how it can go.

NF is not Leo, so put that whole drama out of your mind.

Realize that you and all your loves are not the same people you were when you were struggling with issues around that relationship. Everyone grows and changes.
 
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First, you just really need to ask yourself what you want. Not what you think will be best for everyone, not what you think might be expected of you, but what YOU want. When you're with your new friend (NF for short?), do you feel like you want to get closer, share more emotional and physical intimacy? Is there an urge or a tug that you cannot shake that you feel you must explore? Or are you perfectly satisfied with a close platonic friendship with him? It sounds like you want more than a platonic friendship, since you told him you'd like to go out on a date with him eventually.
I feel the urge to be closer to him physically and emotionally, yes. I question whether or not it's because I find him interesting and unique and it makes me want to get to know him better, or if it's because I am attracted to him beyond that.

I would have a close friendship with him, sure. I definitely don't want him out of my life, or in it less than he is now. If nothing else, I am sure we will be close friends.

I think that perhaps by asking him to ask me on a date at some point, I am giving us a chance to be together outside of friendship, to see how that would feel. Really, all we have had is a few walks, coffee together and spent time with other people. A date where we go and do something for a longer period of time might help me/us decide where we are going. I really can't tell by texting constantly and spending no more than an hour together at a time.

You know how big I am on spending time with people. I never got into relationships where there is distance of any kind. Look at Leo and our dates once a month. That just didn't work for me. This is similar to that. I can't seem to figure it out because I don't think we have spent the right amount of quality time I need to really know where we are going.

Maybe NF will be more like a FWB than a partner. I know that's not usually your thing, but it could work.
It could work. Remember way back when when I dated a friend and called him my "Fancy?" He was more a friend than a partner. I could go there again. Maybe NF (shortening that is a good idea) could be a tertiary. I don't like the idea of giving him a title that indicates his status though. I think it might be best to think of him as a certain person under a certain description and then not use the title out loud.

Regarding PN and Mono (I'm not including Derby since she's already read this and written to you, so she's in the loop), there is also nothing wrong with saying to them how confused and scared you are. "Hey guys, I'm confused and don't know what to do, and I worry about how you would feel if I have an additional lover, and I want to do everything I can to stay connected with you both." You say that you're afraid Mono will hit the roof - just try not to get defensive and wind up in a fight if he does. But somehow I think he won't. I think he will probably be willing to talk as much as you need to with him. Ask him to examine within himself if he can handle it or if he thinks he would lose interest in you. Ask him how committed he would be to you if there was one more man in your life. I know you will not take any steps unless you have reached some sort of agreement for how it can go.
I have done all you suggest here, many times. Sometime I think more than I needed to and that everyone is just getting annoyed and waiting for me to say, "Hey, we are dating," or, "We decided to be friends." I suspect I might get an eye roll and a response something like "It's about freakin' time you figured that out."

You are right, I will not take any step unless I reach an agreement with them.

NF is not Leo, so put that whole drama out of your mind. And realize that you and all your loves are not the same people you were when you were struggling with issues around that relationship. Everyone grows and changes.
Thanks. I will do my best to remember that.

This relationship is vastly different in so many ways. I don't sense my disposableness like I did when I was with Leo. (I did in the last year with him.) I always thought I was seeing Leo on borrowed time, all the way through the years we were together.

NF is eager to spend any second he can with me and often goes out of his way to see me. He will leave work to find me across the city to go for a walk for a half hour. He is far more attentive to my needs than Leo ever was. I feel completely loved and honoured by him. His devotion to what we have is evident daily. I have even asked him if my texting, over-thinking, questions and constant need to be in touch are bothering him and he has said absolutely not. He welcomes my contact and seeks me out if I don't contact him. (I've tested that out several times.)

There is no doubt that he is NOT at all like Leo. Now that I think about it, he is completely opposite in many ways.

I suspect that he will find someone with more time, at some point, though. I worry that I am only a bridge to finding someone to be with that is more available.
 
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I can't remember where I was at from last time. :D

My new friend is becoming a fixture. We are still no closer to figuring out the dating part of our relationship, but that might be because he is still dealing with the break-up he has been going through. She thinks he will come back, it seems. He has three times before, so I can see why. It usually occurs that he heads back after a couple of weeks. The pattern is that he gets lonely, and she does too, so she asks him to come over and he keeps going over until they are back together again. This time he is doing his best not to do that. I reminded him once of this pattern and that he doesn't need to do things he doesn't want to do. So he wrote to her and explained that this time it has to be over. I am waiting to see where this all goes.

He and I are becoming good friends in the meantime. I am grateful for our laughs together and his devotion to being near me. I was grateful for him and two other men when I got towed today, and had to pick LB up. He was at school and I had no car. Mono lent PN his truck to get LB, and my friend picked me up, and took me to the towing company. Yay poly family! :)

I have begun chatting to a man I met on OKCupid this last week. We have a date this up coming Thursday that I am looking forward to. We seem to get along well via text and email. It will be fun to have someone to go out with again on a semi-regular basis. Wouldn't you know it? Last week I was pining at a local pub by myself. I haven't felt the heartbreak over Leo in huge chunks of time, but that night I was torn apart as a result of someone triggering the feeling. The next day this man responded to my profile on OKC and asked if we could go out for beer and nachos! Strange and wonderful all at the same time. :D So pleased and excited!

PN is out with Leo's wife tonight for the first time since our break up. I am unsure if I want to know how it went when he comes in. I want to be on my game for tomorrow's burlesque show and don't know if I want to know, anyway. I think I will just ask him how it all went and leave it at that. I don't know what they will talk about. It could be nothing to do with me. I will assume that is isn't a meet up to "talk" and carry on as such. I think that is best for me, anyway. I'm glad that PN still has his friend to talk to. I hope he gets some questions answered for himself about whether or not it's a good idea to continue with their friendship.
 
I'm glad that PN has his friend to talk to still. I hope he gets some questions answered for himself about whether or not its a good idea to continue on their friendship.

I'm just starting to grasp how interconnected you all are. Don't you ever just get the urge to date someone from, say, Madagaskar, to avoid all this weird community crisscrossing of relationships and baggage?
 
I'm just starting to grasp how interconnected you all are. Don't you ever just get the urge to date someone from, say, Madagaskar? To avoid all this weird community criss-crossing of relationships and baggage?

Why do you think it's weird? Nothing wrong with dating within a community. I used to belong to a large group of friends who were connected by these workshops we all used to take and retreats we went on. It was a big part of my life for six years, so we all got to know each other very well. And we all dated each other.

We used to call it recycling! There was one guy who dated at least ten women in the group, and we were all friends with each other. I dated quite a few guys from that group, and each of them dated quite a few women from the group. Then, a few years later, we'd be invited to a wedding. Little did the families know how well we all know the bride and groom! And this was a group of all straight monogamous people, so I would think it would work out even better with a poly community.
 
I'm just thinking about what to do if there are explosive break-ups. Or if an STD spreads super-quickly in the community (I guess it would actually be easier to trace and contain). And how to protect everyone's privacy. Some people I know seem to get some weird satisfaction from knowing (both in the biblical and non-biblical sense) as many people as possible in the alt community. Like they are almost playing a sport-fucking game where they try to tag as many people as possible.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy good gossip when gossip's due, but it just seems weirdly controlling to me for some to aim to know everything about everyone they are dating, used to date, could potentially date and all the dates of all the people already mentioned.

Maybe I'm naturally averse to small communities because I live in such small circles myself.
 
I'm just thinking about what to do if there are explosive break-ups.
You have lots of people to support you and get you through. I had a break up that upset me and yet still hung out with him and his new gf in our group. It was a great experience that helped me grow. We all talked openly about what was going on with everyone.
Or if an STD spreads super-quickly in the community...
Well, in the group I belonged to, this did not come up. If anyone had anything, it was dealt with privately.
And how to protect everyone's privacy. Some people I know seem to get some weird satisfaction from knowing (both in the biblical and non-biblical sense) as many people as possible in the alt community... I enjoy good gossip when gossip's due, but it just seems weirdly controlling to me for some to aim to know everything about everyone they are dating, used to date, could potentially date and all the dates of all the people already mentioned.
Well, for me, I don't tend to hang out with people who are that immature and calculating. That's the thing about only aligning oneself with the "alt" community. Is that really enough of a connection? Alternative interests attract lots of people who may or may not be emotionally/psychologically/spiritually healthy. The small communities I've been a part of were connected by a dedication to personal growth, and I wouldn't have been a part of those groups if I didn't already like the people who were in them first. We didn't really get into gossip, but that is a personal pet peeve of mine. If gossip was going on, I refused to participate. If anyone acted like an ass, they were taken to task by members (and leaders) of the group, either privately or within our gatherings, if appropriate. People who were inappropriate too many times were asked to leave the group.

Sorry for the hijack, RP!
 
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No worries :D I'm not sure where you got the idea how close the community is from that quote though. Where'd that quote come from? It seems like a long time ago that PN had a female friend to talk to.

On Friday, PN came back happy from his night out and content with his re-connection with Leo's wife. We didn't talk much of it, other than what's going on with my ex's life and where they are at with our break-up. Nothing transpired after our break-up that I hadn't thought would happen. Everything I thought of, in terms of what happened for him and her, seems to have happened.

It seems the bulk of these issues at the time were around my writing here and his desire to end our relationship. Paranoia about everyone finding out details about his life. My stories are a dime a dozen, I'm sure. I tell people that all the time here, as a mod, when they send me PMs wanting me to delete their threads. Anyone who reads the forums long enough knows that. What I write about is my opinion and there are no traceable names attached. Not to mention, none of my friends hung out with them (at least the ones that would read here). Why this blog warranted ending a three-year relationship I don't know. It seems I just wasn't worth enough to work through it, and he only wanted me as a friend, so I was disposable.

As to everything that was said to me in anger and everything that I was told she said? Well, apparently it was all in haste and in the moment. Somehow I am supposed to feel better that she told my husband that she doesn't hate me. That was kind of the gist I got through his secondhand information and late-night attempt to pass on what was said. Really, I'm not much better off knowing all that than I was before. It just seems like an attempt to put a Band-Aid on my feelings, when I have been in a car crash.

The rest of the weekend was filled with burlesque, lots of touches, sex, good talks with people I love, who love me, and lots of texting with the guy I am going on a date with on Thursday. Life is good. I have everything I need. :)
 
We celebrated my new friend's birthday yesterday. (What was it suggested I call him? I forget.) He was thrilled to bits to have hosted a party for himself. First time ever and he turned 54. The church he was in didn't allow birthdays. We sang happy birthday and I brought him cake. First time for that too.

It was very special to me that I was part of it. All of us were there: Derby, PN, LB and Mono. I think the other guests, who were meeting us for the first time, were a bit surprised that Derby and I are so close when we are together. I don't know if they knew about her and me. They knew about the guys, but I don't show them much affection when we are all together. We kind of default to Derby and me cuddling, or I cuddle up to my son.

My friend was very attentive and sweet. It was very evident that he was pleased everyone was meeting us, especially me. I spent some time manoeuvring away from his closeness, so as to be sure that the others were okay. It was sweet. But I was a little overwhelmed.

It was a good night, in some way very pivotal for him and his life journey, and for me, in regards to him and that journey.
 
I am so excited that my forum friend, LovingRadiance, is coming to visit this weekend. Summer's coming and I have made some really fun plans. I'm hoping that people will come to them. :D I'm trying to get Catfish to come and visit... and freetime... maybe marksbabygirl? I've met many forum members over the years. Its been great to connect. I'm sure I have met more than I realize at various local events in Washington State and around here.
 
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I am so excited that my forum friend, LovingRadiance is coming to visit this weekend. Summers coming and I have made some really fun plans. I'm hoping that people will come to them :D I'm trying to get Catfish to come and visit and freetime... Maybe marksbabygirl? I've met many forum members over the years. Its been great to connect. I'm sure I have met more than I realize at various local events in Washington State and around here.

I'm hoping to make it over there... depends on what life throws me in the next 4 weeks.

I am looking forward to meeting you... at some point :p its a year or more overdue :p
 
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