Is poly right for me?

...and I have never been in love with more than one person at a time in my life.

Look, I'm new to all this myself but isn't polyamory defined as multiple loves?

Myself, I've always been conflicted because I've been in love with more than one person at a time although very rarely was sex even involved.

Don't mean this as an insult but perhaps it's the "Swinger" lifestyle that your looking for?

Again, I'm not trying to be insulting, just stated my thoughts.
 
Don't mean this as an insult but perhaps it's the "Swinger" lifestyle that your looking for?

LOL- yes- suggesting someone is a swinger is frowned upon in poly circles. I identify as poly in some circles AND as a swinger in other circles. I actually have more relationships with people who identify as swingers. The interesting thing about labels is that poly people are supposed to be so ethical etc. etc. And swingers are supposed to be hedonistic and shallow. I have actually experienced the opposite in my life. The people i have encountered that identify as poly have been full of drama and their relationships aren't working so well. The people i know who identify as swingers are ethical, emotionally mature, in healthy long term relationships, stable, fun......and the list goes on! Life is funny, people are interesting and labels are misleading.
 
The interesting thing about labels is that poly people are supposed to be so ethical etc. etc. And swingers are supposed to be hedonistic and shallow. I have actually experienced the opposite in my life. The people i have encountered that identify as poly have been full of drama and their relationships aren't working so well. The people i know who identify as swingers are ethical, emotionally mature, in healthy long term relationships, stable, fun......and the list goes on! Life is funny, people are interesting and labels are misleading.

I don't "identify" either way in any circles, but I, too have observed/experienced the same thing(s) you just described.
 
She knows that the reason is because she is spending all of her time at work, with a lover, or whatever. My telling her that sounds like I'm trying to correct her behavior so my goal is to not say that kind of stuff.

You write such interesting stuff, Marcus. :) I've been thinking about this for a while. My take on this is a little different - I think?

I reckon that very often the things that we think other people know about our requests are not always what they know. So - I would be hesitant about assuming that anybody else in my life would understand the emotions behind a request I might make about spending time with them. I'd rather say what is going on for me than assume that the other person knows.

This is a habit from my work - I work in IT doing programming and systems analysis. We try our best to avoid assuming that anybody we work with understands things that haven't been explicitly said - things tend to go wrong wherever assumptions have been made. It seems that when things are left unsaid, everybody has a slightly different take on them.

I very much agree with not wanting to correct somebody else's behaviour - we don't own our friends and partners and if they want to do other things that is absolutely up to them.

For me, it's important to say if their behaviour is something I am struggling with and more important if it's something that I'm not willing to deal with in a romantic relationship. Otherwise it's entirely possible that they could go on through their life, doing their thing, thinking everything is going well until I'd reached the point where I'd had enough and suggested just being friends. Shifting relationships like that is fine with me but sometimes its something that everybody involved would prefer to avoid and a bit of clear communication can be helpful.

IP
 
it sounds like the standard new relationship

problems. All any of us can say is what helps make the situation easier and what makes it worse, from our personal standpoint. I am sure she is aware that she isn't spending as much time with you, and hopefully you can find a way to talk to her about it without her getting defensive.

Because evidently she doesn't understand that you are not just being whiney and that you really aren't OK with it, and you don't need our permission to give you the green light to NOT be OK things the way they are.

Some people actually react worse when they know that they've been a bit neglectful, it seems like it should be different, but it happens, usually because they're caught off guard. When react inappropriately, or harshly when a friend comes to me with their concerns, I think it's important to make sure I go back and let them know that I realize I was wrong.

That really makes a big difference

I know I would feel a lot less frustrated and confused if I were in your situation and she called to apologize upon realizing that she wasn't being very considerate. Sometimes just a few acknowledgments make a world of difference, and then suddenly you might be a whole lot more understanding.

It's really the only way to stop the slow build up of resentment, which happens quick when stuff like this happens, especially when every time you attempt to voice your concerns you get snapped at. I am not saying that it's not completely her fault and there is nothing your could have done to change the way you approach her, but whatever it takes so that you both start moving in the direction of being more understanding, you need to do it.

Bitterness is not good

Because if it gets to the point where you tried broaching the subject as gently as possible and she still doesn't hear you, then you have to decide if you are going to be patient enough to allow her to tap dance on your heart just a little. Some people can take it, but new relationship energy didn't get it's own acronym for nothing, it ruins many relationships.

Just be careful you don't turn into the people that hate each other because you stay together when she honestly sees nothing wrong with her behavior and you honestly feel neglected, because that isn't the way people treat each other when they care about each other's well being.

Hopefully she doesn't expect you to just deal with it. Because in the same manner that you wouldn't want someone to spend time with you unless they really wanted to, I don't think anybody wants to be treating partners in ways they are not OK with.
 
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The people i have encountered that identify as poly have been full of drama and their relationships aren't working so well. The people i know who identify as swingers are ethical, emotionally mature, in healthy long term relationships, stable, fun

This hasn't been my experience. My experience has been that the rare people or group who are emotionally responsible and are not control freaks tend to have a better shot at fulfilling relationships. Everyone else has lots of drama and infighting because the people involved are navigating their power dynamics and trying to figure out how to do anything but deal with their own emotional baggage.

Externalizing personal responsibility isn't related to poly any more than it is to swinging; both camps excel at it.

InfinitePossibility said:
I'd rather say what is going on for me than assume that the other person knows... a bit of clear communication can be helpful.

I don't disagree with anything you said in particular, IP. I suppose my distinction would be that while I do agree that clear communication is a boon in any healthy relationship, I would add the caveat that prior to the communication being initiated, one should be certain that the message they are intending to send is the same as the one they are sending.
 
Perhaps the people who call themselves "swingers" are simply better at hiding their drama, for all i know. I am simply relaying my empirical observations of two different loosely-defined yet circumscribed sets of human subjects. This has very little to do with making statements about "how things are" or "how things should be", and is not based on the scientific method.
 
Perhaps the people who call themselves "swingers" are simply better at hiding their drama, for all i know. I am simply relaying my empirical observations of two different loosely-defined yet circumscribed sets of human subjects. This has very little to do with making statements about "how things are" or "how things should be", and is not based on the scientific method.

No scientific method here either! But after being involved with a person or couple for a certain period of time, the drama is going to come out - if there is going to be any. In theory, swingers don't have to deal with drama as much because they aren't as focused on the relationship part of things because they are mainly focused on the sexual pleasure of things. That could actually be why they don't seem to have as much drama. No one is hyper focused on the relationship part, so the relationships are able to evolve naturally and organically.
 
I don't disagree with anything you said in particular, IP. I suppose my distinction would be that while I do agree that clear communication is a boon in any healthy relationship, I would add the caveat that prior to the communication being initiated, one should be certain that the message they are intending to send is the same as the one they are sending.

I wonder if that is the difficulty with communication? I sometimes wonder if the best we can do is to be clear in our own minds about the message that we want to send?

The recipient of our message won't necessarily understand it the way we intend it anyway - they will understand what we say through the filters of their own experiences.

My SO and I recently had a discussion about this which started on a car journey like this:

SO: Are you hungry?
IP: No. I ate lunch quite late because I knew we'd be travelling. Are you hungry?
SO: Yes. I could do with some food soon.

At the time, we were driving on a motorway and I knew from past discussions that my SO hates stopping at motorway service stations - I'd had lunch very late specifically so that I wouldn't need to stop and force him to go to one. I assumed that his conversation was an indication that we should stop as soon as possible after we'd gotten off the motorway and that's exactly what we did.

However, from my SO's point of view, the conversation was a direct request from him that we stop for food at one of the service stations on the motorway. He was very hungry and willing to put up with being in a service station if it meant he could eat.

When he asked me why I didn't stop, I pointed out that he hadn't actually asked me to stop. He felt very strongly that he had asked and that I should have known.

Interestingly, I know that my SO finds it hard to make direct requests of people because he doesn't like to be controlling. But I find that sort of communication incredibly controlling. Unless there is a reason not to be direct (like a language barrier), I find it preferable to know what it is that people actually want from me. I may or may not be able to or willing to do what it is that they want but I'd much rather know and I'd rather know if it is going to upset them if I don't do what they want.

My preference, of course, comes from experience. I come from a family of incredibly direct, blunt communicators so I've grown up being comfortable with people telling me what they think, what they want from me and when they are upset with me. And I've compounded that by working in I.T. where being clear and direct about everything is a necessary part of the job. Then I've spend the last 12 or so years in my job working directly with our most difficult, demanding customer - people don't like them as a customer because they tend to be very direct, sometimes rude and they get upset if they don't get what they want.

The whole communication thing is interesting for me. My SO and I are still learning and adapting to each other's preferences. Not surprisingly - we have been practicing and honing and becoming comfortable with styles that are different to each other for far longer than we have been together. So there is much more to uncover and discuss and adapt to.

IP
 
Marcus said:
She knows that the reason is because she is spending all of her time at work, with a lover, or whatever. My telling her that sounds like I'm trying to correct her behavior so my goal is to not say that kind of stuff.

To be clear, what I was talking about is asking for exactly what I want - explicitly. What I am *not* in favor of is clouding this precise communication with stuff that can be interpreted as emotional bullying (and I think that's exactly what it is).

SO: Are you hungry?
IP: No. I ate lunch quite late because I knew we'd be travelling. Are you hungry?
SO: Yes. I could do with some food soon.

This is just murky communication (on both sides). I'm glad you guys are working on that, otherwise it sounds like that would just keep giving you headaches.

I may or may not be able to or willing to do what it is that they want but I'd much rather know and I'd rather know if it is going to upset them if I don't do what they want.

UGH! I've had that argument before. It's that kind of drama that I don't want in my life; someone getting pissy because I didn't capitulate to their demand (if "no" is not an acceptable answer, it is a demand).
 
This is just murky communication (on both sides). I'm glad you guys are working on that, otherwise it sounds like that would just keep giving you headaches.

I agree with you. Murky. Having said that, I kind of think that all communication involving humans is murky at best - even if one side of the conversation has perfect understanding, the humans murk it up.

To me, learning to understand a person well is the work of a lifetime. I'd be worried if my SO and I felt that we understood each other perfectly after 3 years together. To me, it would indicate that somebody was either lying deliberately or just misunderstanding and assuming that they did understand.

I hope we have many more years ahead of us to work on our ability to communicate with each other.

UGH! I've had that argument before. It's that kind of drama that I don't want in my life; someone getting pissy because I didn't capitulate to their demand (if "no" is not an acceptable answer, it is a demand).

I know what you mean and for me, it isn't an exact thing but the bottom line is that I don't totally trust myself. Sometimes the people in my life are right to get pissy if I say "no" to them. Sometimes if I say "no" it's because I'm behaving like a total cunt and they are right to be in a rage with me.

Obviously, I don't apply that to everybody but there are people in my life who I feel I can ask if I'm being unreasonable. If I've changed, or am stressed and being horrible due to stress. Or if the situation is genuinely one where it's okay to say "no" and the other person just needs to deal with it.

Lots of the books I've read over the years have led me to doubt myself sufficiently that I want to know if I'm annoying people - in case it's me being a twat and not them.

Ben Goldacre writes lots about how scientists have to set up double blind randomised studies so that they don't know what's going on. Not because they would all deliberately cheat but because if they knew what was being tested they would subconsciously do things that would affect the validity of their results.

Bruce Lipton writes about how strongly our environment impacts on us and how helpless we are as individuals against that.

Malcolm Gladwell has written tons about how trusting instincts is really only something that experts in whatever field it is can do. The rest of us are as likely to be wrong as we are to be right.

Stanley Milgram and Phillip Zimbardo's experiments into how strongly people are controlled by those around them are compelling and kind of terrifying. I had nightmares when I was reading The Lucifer Effect.

My lack of trust in my own motivations and behaviours are what leads me to want feedback from others.

Plus - I have a preference for life to not be simple and easy. I get bored that way. I like challenges and that includes in personal relationships. Simple and easy isn't for me. :D
 
... It's that kind of drama that I don't want in my life; someone getting pissy because I didn't capitulate to their demand (if "no" is not an acceptable answer, it is a demand).

This recalls to me an incident - Dude was being pissy about something and irritating me. At some point in the evening he asked if he could lay his head on my lap as I was sitting on the couch concentrating on the computer. I said "No". (It's hot and uncomfortable and I was still irritated with him enough that I wasn't willing to put up with that.) You would have thought that I slapped him :cool:. My response, "If I can't say 'no,' then it isn't really a question, is it?"

... Murky. Having said that, I kind of think that all communication involving humans is murky at best - even if one side of the conversation has perfect understanding, the humans murk it up.

Language, spoken OR non-verbal, is always limited and inexact. It's amazing to me that we manage to communicate at all.

To me, learning to understand a person well is the work of a lifetime. I'd be worried if my SO and I felt that we understood each other perfectly after 3 years together. To me, it would indicate that somebody was either lying deliberately or just misunderstanding and assuming that they did understand.

I hope we have many more years ahead of us to work on our ability to communicate with each other.

I totally relate to this. To completely understand another person you would have to BE them... MrS and I communicate well and we still (after 20+ years) are learning more and more about each other as the years go by (and, hopefully, will have many more decades to practice this).

Dude sometimes looks at me like I have grown tentacles. "I don't understand you ... AT ALL." That's OK, honey. We have only been together for 2 years - we are just getting started in the "getting to know" each other business. Mere moments in time. A quick flash. If you could know/understand ALL of me in so short of a time? Well, then, I wouldn't be a very interesting person, would I?

JaneQ
 
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My SO and I recently had a discussion about this which started on a car journey like this:

SO: Are you hungry?
IP: No. I ate lunch quite late because I knew we'd be travelling. Are you hungry?
SO: Yes. I could do with some food soon.

At the time, we were driving on a motorway and I knew from past discussions that my SO hates stopping at motorway service stations - I'd had lunch very late specifically so that I wouldn't need to stop and force him to go to one. I assumed that his conversation was an indication that we should stop as soon as possible after we'd gotten off the motorway and that's exactly what we did.

However, from my SO's point of view, the conversation was a direct request from him that we stop for food at one of the service stations on the motorway. He was very hungry and willing to put up with being in a service station if it meant he could eat.

When he asked me why I didn't stop, I pointed out that he hadn't actually asked me to stop. He felt very strongly that he had asked and that I should have known.

Interestingly, I know that my SO finds it hard to make direct requests of people because he doesn't like to be controlling. But I find that sort of communication incredibly controlling. Unless there is a reason not to be direct (like a language barrier), I find it preferable to know what it is that people actually want from me. I may or may not be able to or willing to do what it is that they want but I'd much rather know and I'd rather know if it is going to upset them if I don't do what they want.

Interesting example, and I can relate to this dynamic. You SO sounds similar to my husband that way. What's difficult for me to keep in mind is that any expression I make of what I might like will be taken as a demand. Placater that he is, I often find out after the fact that he's sacrificed his own wants for my own, merely because I happened to be the one to express them. That makes me uncomfortable and I feel like I'm unintentionally taking advantage of him. For his part, my husband finds it incredibly difficult to express desires or make requests, because for him they feel like demands.

I also find it interesting that your SO introduced the subject by asking if you were hungry, even though that was apparently irrelevant to whether or not he believed it was time to stop. That's also something my husband will do. He hopes that I am, so that he can stop for food under the pretext of stopping for me. I don't think they do it maliciously, I imagine the pretext is to themselves as much as to us.

In Husband's case, I'm pretty sure this is wrapped up in his mother issues. When she expressed desires, the WERE demands. No bones about it. She expected them to be carried out, STAT. His desires were considered inconsequential.

But he's made a lot of progress. I've at least gotten him to the point that when he does really really want something, he'll ask for it, at least eventually. First he hums and haws about whether it's worth the inconvenience to me, whether he can do without, whether he can get it a different way... And in cases where I've found out later that he had wanted something he didn't express, I make sure to emphasize that it would have been fine to tell me and if was within my powers, I probably wouldn't have minded.
 
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