Needing some input from experienced people please

But L tends to chose women who are often rude and out of order towards me. While I tolerate their behaviour when we are in public, I refuse to put up with in in my own home.

We have discussed this a lot over the years. If one of my boyfriends were rude to him, I'd soon say something, but L allows his girlfriends to disrespect me. It's very interesting, and there's much to discuss and explore here. I've certainly given a lot of thought to this dynamic myself.

I have never doubted L's love for me, his relationships with other women have never been the issue. I don't feel jealous or threatened, but it does piss me off when they are ignorant or cocky towards me in my own home! And it pisses me off that L allows and enables their behaviour.

This is categorically unacceptable. It's your life and all that, but these women disrespect you IN YOUR OWN HOME AND your husband condones it? I can't say I've walked in your shoes, but as a stranger with no vested interest in your personal situation, I would say that your husband and these women deserve each other, and that you deserve better.

RP, PLEASE say something.
 
I'm not sure why you have called on me Ygirl? oh the pressure ;)

Anyway, I am left feeling very concerned about all you say Alexandra. You say that you and your husband have had loving relationships before yet have never had sex with anyone that has come into your life in the secondary kind of way. You have said that the women your husband choices have treated you badly and you haven't really objected unless it's in your home.

If this thing with your T becomes sexual then it would follow to reason that your L would want to start having sex with the women he sees....

Major RED FLAGS with that one!

Sex will exacerbate them treating you badly and him not doing anything about it. I think you have some major things to deal with here. I am really quite concerned that if you don't deal with them you will end up being very damaged by all this.

I don't usually advocate therapy as I tend to think that people can work things out for themselves with a bit of guidance and good supporting friends, but this is huge to me as it is teetering on the edge of abuse. I suggest marriage counseling.

I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that, but this is a pattern it sounds like and could very well run deep. It sounds like both of you need some better ways of dealing with people in your lives and not letting them trample over you and run the show.

There is something rather sadistic in this whole thing. He could very well just be a bit in denial that these women are bitches to you or he could be getting off on it. If he is truly concerned that his girlfriends treat you badly and doesn't know what to do then I suggest that you have lots of things to communicate about and I would stop everything to reconnect in this way before moving ahead with T, but really I think that should of already happened and the problem should be resolved not repeated... it sounds like it never was....

It seems the bigger issue here is not T, but the relationship between you and your husband. All the rest is the same usual stuff that people who are trying to get a poly life going face and that all comes out in the wash one way or another when a balanced primary relationship is running smoothly.
 
I'm not sure why you have called on me Ygirl? oh the pressure ;)



I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that,

Well of course I would SAY that, but saying that would be like showing someone a picture of a finished cake and expecting them to figure out how to duplicate the recipe.

To be honest, I didn't think you would say the things you said, so thank you for taking the time to spell everything out (even though this is not my thread). Hopefully it will be helpful to the OP and to future members and lurkers if they god forbid ever read the "older" posts on here.

I'm going to add a couple of tags to this thread, but I can only add 2, so maybe some other folks will contribute to that too.
 
You ask how T and I have re-connected after so many years. I'll start by asking a question of my own: I'm wondering why this is relevant? Especially since magdlyn has also asked the question.

.

Now that I have heard more about your relationship dynamic it is clear to me that my initial thoughts were not based an accurate assumptions and I apologize for that.

My immediate assumptions based on your original post? You went on line (probably Facebook lol) reconnected with an old flame, started an online affair, needed to justify it or find a way to work it into your life and found poly because it suited your needs.

I had no idea that your relationship invovled very close "friendships" on both your parts. I would not have responded the way I did in light of that info. Sorry for letting my mind run free :(

Because I am not familiar with this type of dynamic I don't think I know how to give advice in this. RP and friends have a much more worldly view and experience base to draw on.

Peace and Love
Mono
 
Wow, yeah, this added info does change things a bit. First of all, you 2 already seem kinda poly in some ways, with these intense emotional relationships you both have w others, "loving" others you call bfs and gfs.

It's very disturbing he keeps choosing women who are dissing you. wtf?

I couldnt bear that.

I am not anti-therapy as redpepper is. My ex and I had counseling several times in our lives for this or that reason in our long relationship; it did help us get over certain speedbumps and deal w putting to rest certain things from our childhoods. (We never made poly work tho... but that's irrelevant here.)

The links I provided really spell out all the stages that a couple needs to go thru, all the issues that could possibly need to be dealt with as you open a mono relationship. It's great youve both dealt already with how to feel sexual towards others w/o jealousy, now youve just got the next step of actually acting on it.

But it's not cool at all that he lets his gfs diss you.
 
Wow....


Um...

A lot of assumptions here, redpepper.



First off, thank you for your kind concerns :)


Anyway, I am left feeling very concerned about all you say Alexandra. You say that you and your husband have had loving relationships before yet have never had sex with anyone that has come into your life in the secondary kind of way. You have said that the women your husband choices have treated you badly and you haven't really objected unless it's in your home.


I didn't say that they treat me "badly", and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

They tend to be cocky and disrespectful, to be sure, but I am in charge in my own home. When we are out and about, I don't feel that I have any jurisdiction (after all, they are independent individuals, in public). And actually, it doesn't bother me a bit when it's in public. I am strong and amazing, I shine and their light doesn't obscure mine. Let them have their moment.

I should probably say at this point that L is a bit famous, respected and admired for the creative work that he does. He is a public figure and I don't feel that he belongs to me in any way. Part of who and what he is, is a public person. This has always been the case, and I have always "shared" him with his public. Sharing him - his attentions - with others is normal. More than that, other people (men and women) feel amazing when they spend time with him, and that's one of his beautiful traits. I don't have any desire to curtail or hamper that.

Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!

The issue - the problem - is that they carry that attitude into my home, and that L enables and allows that to happen. And yes, it is (as YGirl said) unacceptable. This is an ongoing issue between us, something that we have discussed and argued, every time it comes up. I do not cow-tow to it, I bring it up every singe time it happens. He is stubborn, and he obviously gets something out of it, something that is worth risking my happiness for.

This is an ongoing conversation between us.



If this thing with your T becomes sexual then it would follow to reason that your L would want to start having sex with the women he sees....


Major RED FLAGS with that one!



Sex will exacerbate them treating you badly and him not doing anything about it.


Yes, I have considered this. I agree that if he were to have sex with these type of woman, the issues of respect / disrespect would be greatly increased. And I see that there is potential for damage.

So I have to curtail and dampen what is available to me (the love and honour I receive from T) because L's potential lovers may further disrespect me? That seems backward, and horribly reductive....


I think you have some major things to deal with here. I am really quite concerned that if you don't deal with them you will end up being very damaged by all this.


I agree that it's a major issue, it has been for some time. I have told him that he has dishonoured me, and he acknowledges this.

However, it is not constant and ongoing. He is a good man, he loves me, he is good for me. In the main, he is respectful and honourable.

I don't usually advocate therapy as I tend to think that people can work things out for themselves with a bit of guidance and good supporting friends, but this is huge to me as it is teetering on the edge of abuse. I suggest marriage counseling.

I've had plenty of counseling and therapy myself over the years. I am well, sane, balanced, happy, able to take care of myself. I've made an appointment to see a counselor next week to talk all this through.

As for marriage counseling... Hm... Well, I did mention it in passing to L, but the suggestion got lost in the wind. He is emotionally intelligent, but he's not a talker. I know him well (after 20 years!) and I have learned that he works best when he allows thoughts and ideas to sit deep down inside for a while, he mulls them over beneath the horizon, ferments them, until he arrives at a new place. He is able to take on new ideas and concept, but slowly, sometimes very slowly.

I am by nature patient, and he is by nature stubborn (similar traits, if truth be told).

He won't agree to couple counseling, I don't think, although it is something that I may bring up again.

We've come through some really tough stuff together in the past, and I really do believe that we can do so this time.

I would love to say that you need to stand up for yourself etc blah blah blah I am sure Ygirl and others will say just that, but this is a pattern it sounds like and could very well run deep. It sounds like both of you need some better ways of dealing with people in your lives and not letting them trample over you and run the show.

Heh... I'm not getting trampled, I promise :)

Yes, it is a deep pattern, it predates our relationship, for both of us. I have done deep work on myself around the question "Why do I allow this?" and - as I said up there ^^ somewhere - it's part of an ongoing discussion between L and me.


There is something rather sadistic in this whole thing. He could very well just be a bit in denial that these women are bitches to you or he could be getting off on it.

That's pretty strong, and a huge assumption.

They're not "bitches" to me - from where did you get that impression??

They are disrespectful in quite subtle ways. When I bring it up with L, he tells me I am being petty (although if I explain it in terms he can understand, he does accept and ackowledge my view...). When I describe it to my women friends, they agree that I'm being disrespected.

I'd agree that it's odd, and not right. And yes, he is in denial that they are disrespectful towards me. But I disagree that it's sadistic in any way. I really don't think he's getting off on it. I mean, I've given this some thought since I read your post cos it's a completely novel idea to me, and I'm not getting any sense that he's getting a kick out of it. I think he's just... well, ignorant.




If he is truly concerned that his girlfriends treat you badly and doesn't know what to do then I suggest that you have lots of things to communicate about and I would stop everything to reconnect in this way before moving ahead with T, but really I think that should of already happened and the problem should be resolved not repeated... it sounds like it never was....


Well I agree with you that things need to be resolved before any new situation is introduced. But that's an ideal. As it has happened, T has re-entered my life at this time, not in six months from now.

L has recently realised (or taken on board...) that his current favourite, J, is indeed a problem for me. He has changed his policy with her. Perhaps because T is now on the scene and the stakes have changed; perhaps he has realised that her behaviour is problematic for me and he now wants to do something about that... I don't know.

It seems the bigger issue here is not T, but the relationship between you and your husband. All the rest is the same usual stuff that people who are trying to get a poly life going face and that all comes out in the wash one way or another when a balanced primary relationship is running smoothly.

Yes, this makes sense to me. Of course the bigger issue is my relationship with L, I recognise that. And I accept that all the other stuff is pretty standard, and I'm learning how that works as I go along, and with the help of everyone's guidance and help on this board, for which I am grateful.

I knew before this point that any attempt at polyamory would bring up and highlight any callouses, glitches, swampy patches etc. in my primary relationship. The point is that I'm not afraid to deal with those things. And the problem is that it looks as if L is reluctant or resistant to doing so.
 
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Now that I have heard more about your relationship dynamic it is clear to me that my initial thoughts were not based an accurate assumptions and I apologize for that.

My immediate assumptions based on your original post? You went on line (probably Facebook lol) reconnected with an old flame, started an online affair, needed to justify it or find a way to work it into your life and found poly because it suited your needs.

I had no idea that your relationship invovled very close "friendships" on both your parts. I would not have responded the way I did in light of that info. Sorry for letting my mind run free :(

Because I am not familiar with this type of dynamic I don't think I know how to give advice in this. RP and friends have a much more worldly view and experience base to draw on.

Peace and Love
Mono


No problem :)

I did think perhaps you'd assumed a friends reunited scenario or somesuch. I'm as cynical as you are about such things ;)


Actually, I've found your input very helpful, thank you.
 
Wow, yeah, this added info does change things a bit. First of all, you 2 already seem kinda poly in some ways, with these intense emotional relationships you both have w others, "loving" others you call bfs and gfs.

It does feel that way to me. As I said, when I first heard about polyamory, it just made sense to me.

It's very disturbing he keeps choosing women who are dissing you. wtf?

I couldnt bear that.

Yes, I have asked this question: of myself, and of L too. What do you get from them? Why are they attractive to you?

I think it's this:

L and I were friends for almost five years before we became a couple. So we've known each other a good long while

When we first met I was barely out of my teens (he's 7 years older). I was kooky, odd, fucked up. I was needy, low self esteem etc.

He was attracted to me, to my odd kookiness. I got better, I'm sane and well and happy now. So I'm no longer the odd fuck up I was when he first knew me. But he still has a hankering for that type of girl.

The girls he tends to choose are in some senses a version of the earlier me. It's flattering in a way!

He looked out for me, looked after me, helped me find my way to health, made me feel amazing.... and I think perhaps he is doing all that for these other girls. The difference is that I was young at the time, and I grew up, got better, and these gfs of his are still the way I was then.

My heart goes out to them, truly. I recognise myself in many of them. And truth be told, I was probably capable of the disrespect thing when I was younger too.



I am not anti-therapy as redpepper is. My ex and I had counseling several times in our lives for this or that reason in our long relationship; it did help us get over certain speedbumps and deal w putting to rest certain things from our childhoods. (We never made poly work tho... but that's irrelevant here.)

The links I provided really spell out all the stages that a couple needs to go thru, all the issues that could possibly need to be dealt with as you open a mono relationship. It's great youve both dealt already with how to feel sexual towards others w/o jealousy, now youve just got the next step of actually acting on it.

But it's not cool at all that he lets his gfs diss you.


Thanks Magdlyn. I intend to look at those links when I have the chance.

And I agree that it's not cool that his gfs diss me. Thanks
 
Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!

I'm sorry, BUT -

This is perhaps the most WTF thing I've heard in a very long time.

Your husband has groupies whom he helps with their self-esteem issues by letting them disrespect you? But since you have overcome YOUR self-esteem issues, this "free therapy" he gives to these girls is OK with you in public, but not in your own home.

OK, um, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

After reading everything, you have my permission to go have sex with your boyfriend. I can't see how that could possibly make things any weirder than they already are now.
 
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I'm sorry, BUT -

This is perhaps the most WTF thing I've heard in a very long time.

Your husband has groupies whom he helps with their self-esteem issues by letting them disrespect you, his wife? But since you have overcome YOUR self-esteem issues, this "free therapy" he gives to these girls is OK with you in public, but not in your own home.

OK. OK. Um, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

After reading everything, you have my permission to go have sex with your boyfriend. I can't see how that could possibly make things any weirder than they already are now.

WTF yourself, YGirl.

How very judgmental of you. You have no idea how my life works.

Every relationship is a mystery to those who are not involved. I've answered questions here as clearly and honestly as I can. I've given information out because I am trying to find a way to understand and work with a new and challenging situation in my life. And on the basis of a couple of posts, you've decided that you understand and disapprove of the way things are in my life.

Really, WTF right back atcha.

I understand of course that you're free to come to your own conclusions. But I don't appreciate this certainty you have that things are weird and fucked up for me.

And wow, gee, thanks for your "permission" to have sex with my boyfriend :rolleyes:
 
He doesn't "let" them disrespect me. He truly does not see that they are doing so. When I point it out to him, he can kinda see and understand what I'm saying but he thinks it's an issue between me and them, not all of us.

And as I said before, I think that if we can come to a mutually arrived at agreement that we are in a polyamorous relationship, then within that context, we may be better able to address and resolve these issues.

I'm not looking for guidance about my relationship with L. I was asking for guidance about how to help L understand and accept this idea of polyamory.


I don't even know why I'm trying to clarify this, since you've already made up your mind.



ETA Has this touched a nerve for you or something YGirl? It seems to bother you a lot more than it bothers me.
 
And on the basis of a couple of posts, you've decided that you understand and disapprove of the way things are in my life.


Actually, I DON'T understand. That's what the meaning of "WTF" is all about in the first place.

And, (re: "disapprove") I SAID "different strokes for different folks".

However, I do think you are doing a lot of back-pedaling after Redpepper and Magdlyn posted.



ETA Has this touched a nerve for you or something YGirl?

No, thank you.


It seems to bother you a lot more than it bothers me.

I'm not one of your husband's groupies.


There was no hidden agenda, no dual meaning behind my last post whatsoever. I just gave you my two cents and chose not to sugar-coat it. I stand by whatever I said before. I will go one step further and say that it all sounds pretty co-dependent to me (note the use of E-Prime here and elsewhere). I have decided not to engage in a debate with you about whether my life is more or less "WTF" than yours because that is simply a red-herring.

I'll say once again that I find it a bizarre dynamic for someone to appreciate being disrespected because it is therapeutic. It seems obvious that you enjoy it, yet you say you have a problem with it. The distinction between whether it goes on in your home or not is aesthetic, IMO, since you say your husband doesn't even wish to recognize a problem or engage in understanding of why it is YOUR problem. I am paraphrasing, but your original words are up there if anyone would like to pick apart the minutiae of any discrepancies.

I have not violated and of the rules of the forum by what I said to you. I am not at all surprised that you received it way you did. In fact, I would have been surprised had it been any other way. I make a point to be as blunt as possible and have been told by others that it is appreciated. Of course I am prepared for the way I came across to be perceived as harsh and "judgemental", but if it is working out for you, it shouldn't matter what other people think. It makes no difference to ME what you do with yourself.

If you know yourself and what works for you and what makes you tick as well as you describe in your writing, it seems that you know the answers to what you need to do, deep down in your gut, and do not need strangers on an internet forum to validate that. You wrote enough that you have already given yourself the answer(s) and advice you need.
 
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Some of the people who want, need, to experience this sense of being amazing are shy, awkward, needy etc. And when it's a woman who is these things, one that L finds attractive, who makes him feel protective and adored... well, then they start to feel Special and Chosen. And then when they feel Special, they start to think they might be More Special than the wife.

I am aware that their cocky disrespect towards me is often born out of their own feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem. And L makes them feel amazing!

I don't want to take that away from them! That's pretty cool; isn't it? That L can help them to feel good about themself?

I don't begrudge that, why should I? His ability to give people an awareness of themselves as extraordinary is a gift to be shared. And who needs it more than people who feel badly about themselves?! How selfish would I be to disallow those people from experiencing what L can give them?!

The issue - the problem - is that they carry that attitude into my home, and that L enables and allows that to happen.

I'd say that's amazingly dysfunctional. That you're uncomfortable with the disrespect shown you shows that whatever you gain from that whole dynamic is outweighed by the negative elements. I figure whenever you're truly disenchanted by whatever it is you gain from allowing this dynamic to continue, you'll finally take action to end it.

I just don't see it ending while you're busy defending it.
 
L and I were friends for almost five years before we became a couple. So we've known each other a good long while

When we first met I was barely out of my teens (he's 7 years older). I was kooky, odd, fucked up. I was needy, low self esteem etc.

He was attracted to me, to my odd kookiness. I got better, I'm sane and well and happy now. So I'm no longer the odd fuck up I was when he first knew me. But he still has a hankering for that type of girl.

The girls he tends to choose are in some senses a version of the earlier me. It's flattering in a way!

He looked out for me, looked after me, helped me find my way to health, made me feel amazing.... and I think perhaps he is doing all that for these other girls. The difference is that I was young at the time, and I grew up, got better, and these gfs of his are still the way I was then.

My heart goes out to them, truly. I recognise myself in many of them. And truth be told, I was probably capable of the disrespect thing when I was younger too.

I had a thought. As it doesn't seem that he "gets off" on the fact that they disrespect you then perhaps you could be helpful to them too. After all, you have been where they are and can show them, tell them with your own story what can be accomplished in life and how they can gain their own self esteem for themselves rather on the backs of others.
 
I had a thought. As it doesn't seem that he "gets off" on the fact that they disrespect you then perhaps you could be helpful to them too. After all, you have been where they are and can show them, tell them with your own story what can be accomplished in life and how they can gain their own self esteem for themselves rather on the backs of others.

I love the positive aproach to a negative situation! That's a great way to promote growth Lilo :)
 
It sounds to me like this man did a good job rescuing you. You must love him very much for doing that. It sounds like he encompassed you with his appreciation for women like you and showed you how you too could appreciate yourself. That is lovely and very caring, but might suggest that it is time to take the show on the road and get out of this co-dependency.

This thread has turned into a concern for your primary relationship because those who have chosen to write to you are concerned that you have not taken all the steps to being self actualized. Part of that is that you seemingly have no problem with these women thinking they are better than you when it comes to your husband. No one should EVER think they are better than you. I am still concerned by this. Your husband is right. It really isn't to do with him and everything to do with you. However he is not being helpful and proactive in helping you out of these situations. Maybe because he doesn't want you to be self actualized as you won't be the woman he fell in love with anymore. Therefore he may fear that he won't be attracted to you anymore.

As a self actualized individual I would NEVER let anyone think that it is okay that they treat me the way you describe. Especially when they are friends/lovers of my husband. I can understand that people have esteem issues, I can understand that they think hes the "bees-knees", I can understand that they are learning from him, but they have absolutely no right to think they are in anyway entitled to him over me. I'm afraid that they would be pulled aside and quickly put in their place.

My husband and I have negotiated veto power for such occasions. If there is someone in our lives that the other has a problem with then we reserve the right to ask that they not be a part of our lives. There is time to this however, I would not simply demand this right, a process would have to ensue whereby I would ask (he usually sees it at the same time I do anyway) that he talk to them first and let them know he is not pleased with what they have said or their actions and this is what the consequence will be if it happens again. Usually it means that I will talk to them, or we both will.

Usually, at this point in our relationship, we see together what has happened or been said and address it immediately in the moment and without hesitation. We are very practiced with this by now. It takes time. We are used to calling each other on stuff and those that are close to us.

I am amazed that you have this dynamic and find it fascinating. It's almost D/s (domination/submission) to me. That is why I wondered if he gets a charge out of the women treating you the way they do. People spend years developing that in some SM relationships. The difference being that they have an arrangement that is acceptable to both of them, I am unsure that it is acceptable to you.

It's a shame he won't go to therapy with you. This is NOT your issue alone and you can do all the therapy you want, but if this is an issue that is keeping you from reaching your full potential then it will become evident and eventually it will be necessary for him to go if there is a hope in hell of the two of you staying together. His unwillingness makes me wonder if he is fearful or just doesn't want you to reach your potential because he doesn't dig women that have.

I wonder if you can take yourself out of the realm of whatever makes your husband such a celebrity and see this for what it is, two human beings trying to make their relationship work. It makes no difference what he does that makes him acknowledged, as a human right, you are entitled to respect. You deserve it as a fellow human being. If all of you were sitting in my living room right now and as I don't know who your husband is and in what way he is famous, I would expect him to treat you with dignity and respect. I would hope that you would ask for that and demand that. It's nothing to do with how much you love each other, or what is going on for others around you, it's a right.
 
I'm not one of your husband's groupies.

There was no hidden agenda, no dual meaning behind my last post whatsoever. I just gave you my two cents and chose not to sugar-coat it. I stand by whatever I said before. I will go one step further and say that it all sounds pretty co-dependent to me (note the use of E-Prime here and elsewhere). I have decided not to engage in a debate with you about whether my life is more or less "WTF" than yours because that is simply a red-herring.

I'll say once again that I find it a bizarre dynamic for someone to appreciate being disrespected because it is therapeutic. It seems obvious that you enjoy it, yet you say you have a problem with it. The distinction between whether it goes on in your home or not is aesthetic, IMO, since you say your husband doesn't even wish to recognize a problem or engage in understanding of why it is YOUR problem. I am paraphrasing, but your original words are up there if anyone would like to pick apart the minutiae of any discrepancies.

I have not violated and of the rules of the forum by what I said to you. I am not at all surprised that you received it way you did. In fact, I would have been surprised had it been any other way. I make a point to be as blunt as possible and have been told by others that it is appreciated. Of course I am prepared for the way I came across to be perceived as harsh and "judgemental", but if it is working out for you, it shouldn't matter what other people think. It makes no difference to ME what you do with yourself.

If you know yourself and what works for you and what makes you tick as well as you describe in your writing, it seems that you know the answers to what you need to do, deep down in your gut, and do not need strangers on an internet forum to validate that. You wrote enough that you have already given yourself the answer(s) and advice you need.

Ygirl and I quite often see eye to eye on these things, with two distinct ways of "talking." I find that Ygirl gets to the point in a different way and can be very blunt. She does however, in my experience, get that way out of concern for others and needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes she evokes some strong emotions for people, and while they can evoke anger, I believe she does it with a bit of tongue in cheek and as a way to make people look at their shit from an un-sugar coated approach.

Good for you for giving her a good yelling at. I was beginning to think that you didn't have that in you and that you let people walk over you. I'm glad to see that my assumption was wrong :D Nice to see some strong woman in you, because by all accounts your situation doesn't indicate its in you, just yet.
 
As Freud taught, there is no such thing as a joke... I chided him [T] for it and he excused himself saying "Sorry, that was a Bloke thing" or something similar. Actually, he is very respectful and generous about L. He has never pressured me or made me feel in any way as if L is a difficulty for him. When I ask him about this ability, he says "He's your rock, your root, you love him, you're with him. Loving you is about wanting you to have what you want, what makes you happy, and L makes you happy". He is not greedy or needy about my time, energy or attentions.
Unless I missed it, Alexandra, you haven't said whether T's situation is symmetrical with your own. That is, is T married or involved with a full-time partner? If so, how is T handling the disclosure issue with his own partner?

On the other hand, if T is not as tightly attached to a partner as you are, then there's an asymmetry. When a relationship is pre-sexual, it sounds reasonable to tell a woman, 'I'm not greedy or needy about your time, energy or attentions.' But, if and when the situation changes to sexual intimacy, a man who doesn't have a partner of his own to spend time with, is likely to become highly focused on you, meaning, wanting more of your time for himself.

In my case, the new relationship energy from corresponding with a distant, married girlfriend since June has gotten channeled into being physically closer to my wife -- hugs every day, more frequent sex. But, if I didn't have a wife that I love to channel this new energy, I think I would now be overly obsessed with my girlfriend, to the point of wanting to take her away from her husband and have her with me all the time.

My point being, symmetry (both parties having an established partner to rely on) can be a stabilising factor; whereas asymmetry in terms of existing partners can lead to unbalanced needs between the two new lovers.

I hope you and T continue to enjoy the love you've found. It has certainly transformed my life to find another woman, outside my marriage, that I feel so emotionally connected with.
 
Unless I missed it, Alexandra, you haven't said whether T's situation is symmetrical with your own. That is, is T married or involved with a full-time partner? If so, how is T handling the disclosure issue with his own partner?

On the other hand, if T is not as tightly attached to a partner as you are, then there's an asymmetry. When a relationship is pre-sexual, it sounds reasonable to tell a woman, 'I'm not greedy or needy about your time, energy or attentions.' But, if and when the situation changes to sexual intimacy, a man who doesn't have a partner of his own to spend time with, is likely to become highly focused on you, meaning, wanting more of your time for himself.

In my case, the new relationship energy from corresponding with a distant, married girlfriend since June has gotten channeled into being physically closer to my wife -- hugs every day, more frequent sex. But, if I didn't have a wife that I love to channel this new energy, I think I would now be overly obsessed with my girlfriend, to the point of wanting to take her away from her husband and have her with me all the time.

My point being, symmetry (both parties having an established partner to rely on) can be a stabilising factor; whereas asymmetry in terms of existing partners can lead to unbalanced needs between the two new lovers.

I hope you and T continue to enjoy the love you've found. It has certainly transformed my life to find another woman, outside my marriage, that I feel so emotionally connected with.


Thank you Marcelo, this is useful food for thought.

After the drubbing I received earlier, I am now chary of giving any more information.

However, I can say that it has helped to clarify some of my thinking and experience.

I will say this: T has not said to me 'I'm not greedy or needy about your time, energy or attentions.' He has consistently demonstrated it by his behaviour.
 
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