Guidelines, boundries and agreements.

Womyn2me

New member
I need advice on how to make my requests during an upcoming negotiation with my wife. We have always been non-monogamous, but during a time of my depression for me, she got a GF. no discussion before hand or frankly, even since then.

I have no idea what our relationship boundries are. and I have no desire to fall in love with the people I sleep with, mostly friends with benefits.

I have no idea how to non-consentually be in a poly relationship. My wifes GF (who has borderline personality disorder, to further complicate this BS) and I were friends before this all started. As was GF's partner. that is all shot to hell now.

I have no idea what to do. I read MOre than One at the advice of my kink aware therapist (vital not to have to explain non-monogamy to a therapist and not have them already have a bad attitude.)
unfortunately that book disses non-monogamy.

I want good friends that we fuck ot threesomes we pick up. I want to set a boundry that if she feels that intense falling in love feeling that she will walk away and come talk to me. And ABSOLUTELY no borderlines. that incredible up down anger charming depressed suicidal happy charming anger thing is not for me and I don't want it's effects in the house.

I need help. how do I negotiate this? I already discussed separation and her attention to me increased significantly. we don't want to divorce, we love each other. but her anger and resentment about having to carry so much during my depression really helped make this affair happen.

what do I do? please help me.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I am not sure I understand what you are after. Let me repeat back the highlights of what I think I am hearing...you correct me if I am wrong, ok?

  • You had a bout of depression. Resentful and angry with having to carry the relationship while you were depressed, wife had an affair with GF.
  • You did not consent to polyamory. Previously the agreement was an open model for sex share only...more like swinging. So this was cheating.
  • Are you saying you have been lacking in wife attention because she has been lala with the gf? And only when you bring up separating does she pay you attention?
  • Are you saying you want your wife to break up with her current GF because you did not consent to poly, it was cheating, and you do not want to deal in moody borderline behaviors in your house?
  • Are you saying you want to have clear boundaries and agreements in the nonmonogamous marriage that wife will stick to? And one of them is you want your wife to limit herself to sex share and if she starts falling in love with any sex partners, to tell you and break it off?
Is that it? These are things you want at this time? What does wife want at this time? :confused:

Galagirl
 
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Hi Womyn2me,

I take it you want a nonmonogamous agreement where you and your wife agree not to fall in love with any partners (besides each other). And, you want to be kept in the loop (so you can give the okay) whenever your wife starts seeing someone. So, your wife's relationship with her girlfriend is an affair because she fell in love with her girlfriend which she wasn't supposed to do, and because she didn't get your permission to pick up this particular girlfriend. I'm kind of assuming, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Did your wife know that those were the rules?

Perhaps you want to formally establish those rules now? Are there other rules that you also want to establish now? Perhaps, no dating anyone with borderline personality disorder? No allowing such persons in your house? Are you wanting to declare your wife's particular girlfriend off-limits from now on?

And you want to know how to request these things of your wife?

How crucial are these requests? Does the continuation of your marriage depend on your wife accepting and abiding by these rules? or do you just want to tell your wife that it makes you uncomfortable when those boundaries are crossed?

I think that's one of the most important things, is you need to make it clear how much hangs on abiding by these rules.

Have you taken your wife's feelings into account? What if she wants to fall in love with other people? What if she wants polyamory? How would that sit with you? Would it be a deal breaker? What if she wants to keep her current girlfriend? Is that okay as long as said girlfriend does not come to your house?

All of these things should be discussed, both here and with your wife. At least that's what I think.
 
You may not be able to get the horse back in the barn, as they say. Your wife already has another relationship, and may not be willing to give it up or cut it back to suit your preferences (and if she tries, she may must be hiding her feelings about this other woman from you to avoid the possible consequences you're implying).

The question may be more about can you live with the current arrangement, and how can you manage future situations that may arise? How can you manage and mitigate the issues that currently exist? Discussing boundaries is probably good, but I think it may be too late to change things retroactively.
 
When people open up their relationship to sex with others, there is always the possibility of a deeper emotional connection developing. It is one reason that many swingers have very strict limits on how many times or how often they will engage with the same partner (they may only do ONS, or no more than two or three times, etc.). It limits the chances of feelings developing and "protects" the original relationship (I am not arguing the right or wrong of this approach, just that it's common).

Humans are not robots, and rules about emotions simply don't work, especially if the relationships are on-going and not one-time things. It's very natural for many people to develop feelings for people they spend a good bit of time around and are sexually intimate with. So, really, FWB may not be a good idea for the future, if you want to keep having NSA, non-monogamous sex. Swinging with a stricter rule structure may suit you better.

That said, it may not at all suit your wife better, and has already been pointed out, the horse has left the barn. Your wife cannot "un-have" feelings she's already developed. KDT and Central have asked some good questions, and it sounds like really good, honest, and open conversation is the only way through this.
 
I want good friends that we fuck ot threesomes we pick up. I want to set a boundry that if she feels that intense falling in love feeling that she will walk away and come talk to me.

Unfortunately, you can't set this as a boundary. You can ask her if she will consider making an agreement with you to this effect, but that's not a boundary, it's a rule. Boundaries are about you deciding what works for you, and what behaviours are good for you, and therefore the scope of that agreement starts and ends with yourself. You can't put boundary on another person. So you setting a boundary would be more like 'I don't want to fall in love with others - I just want sex with friends'. Great. You make that commitment and you follow through on that, because presumably there is something about becoming more emotionally entwined with another that you find doesn't work for you. If your partner having that kind of relationship with her gf is not something you can tolerate, you can also make it clear where your personal boundaries lie in continuing with your marriage. 'I'm not willing to be involved with someone who has multiple loving relationships'. That's also totally acceptable.

It does sound like you guys need to talk, because you are clearly approaching things from different angles. Just be aware that all you can do is explain how you're feeling, explain why you're feeling like that, and ask her to consider those feelings. She owns her own decisions, and you can't expect her to agree with you, even after hearing how this impacts upon you. It's already quite apparent that she *doesn't* share your intuition about where the line between friends-we-fuck and people-we-love is, so that's the position you're starting from. I think the key to all this is in knowing exactly WHY you feel this strongly about it. I too would struggle if I felt my partner had made a poor choice of other partner. How significant is this factor in how you're feeling? Do you think you could be okay with your wife being romantically and emotionally in love with someone who you felt was stable and less volatile? Or is it really just very black and white to you? I agree with the other posters in that re-negotiating after the fact is now quite tricky, but the best way to start is by letting her know how it makes you feel. Concentrate on that, and on how things are between the two of you now that the new gf is on the scene, and try to find a compromise. I think if you go into a discussion with a closed mind, insisting that she agree to your terms, you are likely to do both yourself and your relationship with her a disservice.

It ain't easy. I wish you luck.
 
clarification

Just to answer some questions that perhaps I wasn't clear enough about.

I'm not asking her to change her relationship with her GF or stop loving or dating her. I believe the Gf's BPD cycles will eventually do that. I do ask questions of the wife in regard to how she is doing and what the GF has beein up to today, trying to at least be able to say the name and be GGG. I've mentioned that to my wife and she said she realizes that eventually this woman will break her heart..
the intensity of the first couple of months is over and She's not happy with the drama. It is her drama to be tired of, I have my own.

also, the GF was NOT a GF before the relationship was brought to my attention. falling in love and the establishment of a 'lover', now GF relationship was never talked about before. and for gods sakes, I've had sex with the GF and many , more times with her primary as a FRIENDs.

so I feel like our old guidelines (not rules), which we have had for 9 years and renegotiated often, were set aside because of wife's anger and resentment, with no discussion. the wife is NOT talking to me about her thoughts about the situation - only will answer questions if I ask, with an option to not answer. So basically she doesn't share what she thinks and feels about herself unless I ask the right question.

As a matter of fact, we still haven't discussed this alteration in our relationship balance. We have kink aware therapists and they expect us to do relationship coaching with them. but we have to know what we want. I have no idea. hence this posting

I want threesomes and fun women who enjoy non-monogamy, group sex and kink. I will commit to walking away if I begin to have loving beyond FWB feelings . I would request that she do that too, or at least come to me and discuss her feelings BEFORE she tells the other person. I request partner privilege if she is going to be poly, which she says she will. Of course, she can do and act any way she wants, break trust. but I will never be back in this non-consent area again.

TL, I hope you read.
 
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So, this is mainly a communication problem? Your wife won't talk to you? won't share her feelings, etc.

That and you want to be told before anyone else when feelings are developing?
 
Thanks for more info. I am going to recap what I understand from that post. You correct me if I am wrong...

At this point it sounds to me like this:

We have kink aware therapists and they expect us to do relationship coaching with them. but we have to know what we want. I have no idea what wife wants. She won't tell me directly at this time.

Here is what I want to do:

  • On wife's current GF? I'm not going to fuss over that one. I want to let that run its course on its own. (I think her borderline wacky will end it soon enough anyway. Wife is already seeming tired of the drama.) In the meanwhile, I try to be small-talk cordial by asking how she's doing with GF.
  • I want threesomes and fun women who enjoy non-monogamy, group sex and kink.
  • I expect me to walk away from FWB if I begin to have "loving beyond FWB" feelings for them.
  • I request that she do that too with her FWBs. Or at least come to me and discuss her feelings BEFORE she tells the other person and approaches them for poly.
  • I request partner privilege if she is going to be poly with them. (so far she agrees to this part)
  • I am frustrated Wife will not explain her rationale during the depression period and why she cast agreements aside. What no longer worked for her. I'd like to know it before we make new agreements. But she will not tell me and volunteer info.
  • Of course, she can do and act any way she wants, break trust. but I will never be back in this non-consent area again. I expect me to separate if she cheats on agreements again.
  • I need help asking wife to articulate what it is she wants to me so I can know that we will each go into our therapy appointment prepared and ready to work.

Is that where it is?

Are you willing to let it go for now and find out at the appointment if she shows up prepared or not? Maybe she needs the therapist to help her organize her thoughts?

Or do you experience this as / fear this is stonewalling? You think she is not entering into therapy to repair with you in good faith?

To me it sounds like she broke trust somewhere along the line and you want to be reassured she's not going to do it again before you make any new agreements together. And that her attending therapy isn't going to be a waste of time because she's not really into it. Is it something like that? :confused:

Galagirl
 
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Ah, sorry, i thought this was a woman that had been present in some way with you both.

GalaGirl's summation is excellent--is she on-point? If so, it sounds like perhaps you have some marital work to do (assuming wife is willing to give up her GF and the idea of poly, which she may not be). If she is willing to give up GF, would it be reasonable to close up your marriage for a while, so you can focus on the issues that you both seem to be having? Communication issues, healing from your depression and her betrayal...that's a lot to focus on. It may be worth considering focusing on reconnecting with your wife without sex with others, and to get back on stable footing, before re-visiting swinging (which is much more what it sounds like you're up for).

That is all, of course, assuming your wife wants to give up her GF (or her GF's mental issues become too much to handle) and the idea of a poly lifestyle. Otherwise, your decision seems fairly clear.
 
Personally I am not one for rules and regulations when it comes to relationships. My wife never told me what to do or not to do. You cannot have a full relationship when you have rules to follow. All my wife needed to know is that I would never leave her and would always put her first in my life. It worked out very well for us over 4 decades. However, we both saw the danger when emotions come into play and I did fall in love with a few women. Instead of my wife imposing rules on me she smartly brought her girlfriend into our marriage where we both could share her either together or one on one with no rules.

I do not like rules which is why I do not join anything unless I have to. :)
 
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