Crossing boundaries – disrespect or just a change of mind/heart?

Pea

New member
hey hey, I’m new to poly but so this might seem naive. My boyfriend and I of about a year and a half at the time, decided to have an open relationship knowing that we were going to be doing long distance for about 6 months. We've had some small flings in the past and had no issues whatsoever. During the six months apart both him and I had a relationship with another partner. I got very close with mine but we had always felt committed to my boyfriend and that I would go back to him when our long distance time was over.

The difference was that my boyfriend had chosen to continue his. This I wasn’t ready for. I was upset I that my boyfriend didn’t talk to me about this prior to me finding our for myself by seeing them together but accepted that he just understands things differently to me. When I expressed my discomfort about this, he couldn’t bring himself to commit to me only. He wanted her company as well as mine and continued to do so. I was upset because we had previously agreed that if one person felt uncomfortable the other person would step back - this was my security to know that I’d be ok trying this out.

I felt betrayed that he had changed his mind and yet I can understand being swept away by a new relationship. He says part of that was because we had difficulties in our relationship and needed her for comfort and someone to talk to. To his credit, he hasn't slept with her since and I think he would have if it wasn't for me - he does continue to have romantic trips with her and kisses and cuddles.

I broke up with him because he couldn’t promise me he would stop being affectionate with her and I couldn’t bare to think he’s with someone else. I can see some things from his perspective but at the same time I felt like he disregarded my feelings and pushed me beyond my boundaries. I felt like I was no longer important to him - whether this was true or not - it still hurt. I’m confused and conflicted because I know I can’t make anyone do anything for me, but yet in my mind I don’t understand how he couldn’t just take it slowly. I asked him to give it just a few months to ourselves while I adjust to these new feelings but that wasn’t enough. I don’t know what to think because I want to make things work and the last thing I want to do is restrict someone, but doesn't feel like he really loves or care about me. Can anyone shed any light on this? I need new perspectives because I’m struggling with feeling like he turned his back on me but yet maybe I’m missing his point of view but don’t want to be a door mat either.

He's definitely had more experience like this than I have. He said he used to have a girlfriend who was sleeping with someone else and he had no problems. I guess I didn't have an issue only until I started to feel less significant to him. He always gave me the ' I won't do it if you don't want me to' but this time was different. Is this just me not understanding, or letting insecurities get in the way?

If we were to continue a relationship, how can I think about this so I don’t feel like being taken advantage of. He has no remorse for what he has been doing and thinks I’m being selfish for asking him to stop seeking comfort with this other girl, especially when times were tough in our relationship. Please what can I make of this? Is there any hope in this?

Thanks
 
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I broke up with him because he couldn’t promise me he would stop being affectionate with her and I couldn’t bare to be knowing he’s with someone else.....
He's definitely had more experience like this than I have. He said he used to have a girlfriend who was sleeping with someone else and he had no problems. I guess I didn't have an issue only until I started to feel less significant to him.

He may have "experience" with NSA sex and relationships, but everything you describe is not polyamory - not happy polyamory, anyway. And so what if he has "experience?" That doesn't mean that you have to follow along with whatever he dishes out as "poly." You're right to respect your gut and question all of this because there's a lot here that's not respectful and certainly not good poly. To me, all of this looks like monogamy with "poly" as a not-so-soft transition between girlfriends. "Hey, we're poly" seems to be the new "It's not you, it's me," but a jump is still a jump. My guess is that this is a young guy who enjoys everything a girlfriend has to offer, but wants the freedom to buzz from flower to flower without the hassle of a breakup, so he calls himself "poly." You're absolutely right to feel squeamish. Don't waste your emotions trying to "overcome" your doubts - heed them.
 
I'm sorry you struggle. I could be wrong in my impressions. But FWIW, here's how it appears to me:

Were these the agreements/expectations?

  • We are going to be long distance for 6 months.
  • In that time, we can see other people.
  • When we are not long distance any more, we will end our other relationships and go back to being just with each other.
  • If one person feels uncomfortable with all this the other person would step back from the extra relationships.
  • You will tell me ahead of time if you want to change agreements/expectations. (<-- expectation that perhaps was not articulated well)

If so? It sounds like he broke some of them in bold. Even though that last one may not have been clearly laid out.

But since others were broken? You ended things with him.

Fair enough. You don't have to keep going with someone who breaks agreements/treats you poorly/doesn't consider you.

I get that breaking up feels yucky. But I don't think you need to talk yourself out of your feelings. To me feelings ensue after behavior. It's ok to feel yucky after someone breaks agreements.

I’m struggling with feeling like he turned his back on me but yet maybe I’m missing his point of view but don’t want to be a door mat either.

I think you call it how it was. He did turn his back. You were being treated like a door mat.

You are grieving. Expect yourself to go through the stages of grief. And one of them is that "Why? Why?" stage. Nobody wants to be treated poorly. It's hard to beleive it at first when it happens. Like "I thought they loved me... how could they do that to me?"

Believe what he shows you. He is not a person of his Word. He's told you his POV. He doesn't want to keep agreements (when he could have just not made them in the first place.) And he thinks you are selfish for expecting him to consider you/keep his Word when he does make agreements.

It's a hard pill to swallow. But he's told you/shown you. I don't think there's much more to understand.

If we were to continue a relationship, how can I think about this so I don’t feel like being taken advantage of. He has no remorse for what he has been doing and thinks I’m being selfish for asking him to stop seeking comfort with this other girl, especially when times were tough in our relationship.

That would bother me for several reasons.

  • When the agreements were made/now that we find the agreements pinch... we are not going to stop to check if the agreements were/are realistic? Need updating? He's just gonna tell me whatever I want to hear in the moment to get his way, without any actual intention of following through on agreements or keeping his Word?

  • Rather than working out the problems with me, he's going to use this other woman as some sort of comfort woobie or pacifier? What's he been using me for?

  • Rather than be remorseful that things between us went awry due to miscommunication or due to him not keeping agreements... he's going flip it around on me and call me selfish? Just because I need to stop or slow down to process his behavior/changes? That is not selfish. That is self care. I can't flip from one thing to another at the drop of a hat.

IME, usually it's the selfish people calling other people "selfish" because they get in the way of them achieving their selfish aims. They believe it's all "Me me me me. Everything is about me, screw you and your needs." Including the need for self care.

I would let this one go and stay broken up. Be ok feeling yucky. Be ok feeling sad. Be ok feeling all the feelings you are going to be feeling right now. Take your time healing.

But don't get back together with a person who behaves this way and brings you this load of UGH feelings. Not a person of their Word and not a person who is considerate of you.

When the smoke alarm goes off? One puts out the fire or gets out of the house. One does not seek to whack the smoke alarm so it stops beeping and becomes more ignorable while sitting there with a fire going on.

You have chosen to get out of the house. Don't talk yourself out of your feelings. Being here did not feel good. Don't go back in for more.

Galagirl
 
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Hello Pea,

It sounds like you and your (now ex-) boyfriend had some misunderstandings about what some of the agreements were. Although at the least he should have stepped back when you expressed your discomfort. The thing to consider here is that, you are not under obligation to consent to his seeing this other woman. Your consent is yours to give or withhold. His seeing this other woman isn't necessarily a good thing. It may be good for him; it isn't necessarily good for you. And that is okay. You seem to prefer monogamy under most circumstances, and that is okay. Monogamy is okay. Monogamy is good. Monogamy isn't inferior to polyamory. Monogamy and polyamory both have their good points.

If he is going to treat you badly, then you are wise to break up with him. There are other guys out there who will treat you better. And you deserve to be treated better. I wouldn't get back together with him unless he showed some remorse, and agreed to some compromises. And even then it might be a bad idea to get back together, if you are much more monogamous than he is, you may not be compatible. Which is okay, you don't have to be compatible. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is to let each other go.

Whatever you decide to do, I'll support you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
To me, it doesn’t sound like the original agreements were ethical polyamory. You were both treating these other partners as disposable things instead of as people. I can’t imagine being in a relationship for 6 months and then being expected to just give it up because someone I have never met is back in town.

Now it is totally fine for you to decide that you are not okay with polyamory. And if that is how you feel (and you are 100% certain) then you did the right thing by breaking up. If I were in your shoes I probably would try to get at the root of the feelings and see if it is possible for you to get more comfortable with the idea of him being in another relationship. But ultimately that is your call.

At the end of the day, my personal opinion is that it would have been more unethical for him to discard his other girlfriend just because you told him to than it was for him to go back on his agreement. I think it is better to break an unethical agreement than to honor it.
 
Pea : Did your interim partner know he or she was going to be more or less cut loose at the end of 6months ??? And does this have a geographical component to it. Who went away and who remained home ??



My guess is that this is a young guy who enjoys everything a girlfriend has to offer, but wants the freedom to buzz from flower to flower without the hassle of a breakup, so he calls himself "poly." You're absolutely right to feel squeamish.
.

How is this appreciatively different from say someone in a 12yr mono marriage dropping the poly bomb because they want freedom to buzz from flower to flower yet want the security of a marriage ??? Also isn’t that the point of poly to buzz from flower to flower 👍👍😝.
 
To me, it doesn’t sound like the original agreements were ethical polyamory. You were both treating these other partners as disposable things instead of as people. I can’t imagine being in a relationship for 6 months and then being expected to just give it up because someone I have never met is back in town.

Now it is totally fine for you to decide that you are not okay with polyamory. And if that is how you feel (and you are 100% certain) then you did the right thing by breaking up. If I were in your shoes I probably would try to get at the root of the feelings and see if it is possible for you to get more comfortable with the idea of him being in another relationship. But ultimately that is your call.

At the end of the day, my personal opinion is that it would have been more unethical for him to discard his other girlfriend just because you told him to than it was for him to go back on his agreement. I think it is better to break an unethical agreement than to honor it.



Hey hey this is great! Thanks for the response. When he said he couldn't stop with this girl I said i can understand that circumstances had changed and I had also acknowledged that it isn't fair for the other person to feel disposed of so I was ok for them to be friends - but I understand that's not enough for some. I also knew this was a not the greatest agreement and was as much as I can be mentally prepared for this to happen but it still hurt very much when it was broken. I'd agree that the agreement wasn't clear or emphasised enough. One reason was that I knew that it could have been bad choice to enforce such rules to begin with. At the same time, I struggled because I felt ethical polyamory is taking things step by step particularly if you're new to this. To his credit, he gave me some reasurance (and some blame) but ultimately he was adamant he wasn't going to change - although I did see some changes, like he did stop kissing her every other night and would check in with me first if it was ok. I definitely think we could have handled the situation differently but it really did come to me as a shock.

I love your perspective. we had a lot of long distance and that was the only times we had other relationships - more like flings - with others. Yes we didn't talk enough, but to me, if he was going to start being affectionate with someone else in the same city then this deserved a conversation. He did ask me if it was ok for me to see her, I said yes I wasn't worried because I didn't have any clue he was going to be doing that in front of me and thought they were just FWB. When it carried on for a few days and I saw their chemistry, I questioned this. He said to me I should have asked him, and I think he should have taken the initiative. What are your views on this?

Thanks.
 
Pea : Did your interim partner know he or she was going to be more or less cut loose at the end of 6months ???

Yes my interim partner did. I was clear at the start and all the way to the end. We had some time apart to ease off because we did get very close. We are now still friends and on talking terms. I did this purely because I felt a commitment to my boyfriend as was conscious not to bring anything into our relationship that could potentially damage it.

He went a different way. Found comfort in this girl and keeps going back to her. He says he discusses our relationship with her and makes him feel better. I don't think he ever intended to stop seeing this girl once we were together geographically, but at the same time, I don't think he gave it much thought and was just going about things as he felt like it. He's a very free spirited type and doesn't worry much.


And does this have a geographical component to it. Who went away and who remained home ??

Yes it does. When we did the long distance, I was going home to study. So for the 6 months we were apart, I was home and he was home. I went back to see him during my summer break but that city was neither our home but he was much closer to his interim than mine. We decided close to end the of the six months who would take the flight to see each other.
 
He said to me I should have asked him, and I think he should have taken the initiative. What are your views on this?

Thanks.

I am confused. Can you clarify? He said you should have asked him about what exactly? You think he should have taken the initiative and done what exactly?
 
"When he said he couldn't stop with this girl I said i can understand that circumstances had changed and I had also acknowledged that it isn't fair for the other person to feel disposed of so I was ok for them to be friends - but I understand that's not enough for some."

Yes, imagine if she said "well he is my boyfriend now, you obviously were not enough for him and he needed more, so you two need to break up... but, I will let you be friends". Downgrading their relationship from partners to friends is still pretty much disposing of the new person.

"At the same time, I struggled because I felt ethical polyamory is taking things step by step particularly if you're new to this."

No it is pretty much frowned upon to treat people as if they can be cut off at a moments notice. Some people do have an agreeement where new partners can be vetoed but it is still recommended to be upfront about it. The problem occurs when there is a veto agreement, but the feelings are not in line with that agreement. For me, my guess, being "seasoned" and all, is that your partner is already prepared to lose you if you keep insisting he has to choose.

I think the mistake was the two of you thinking that being emotionally and physically intimate with others would never lead to the desire for commitment and longevity. I think you should stop focusing on how to get them to stop loving each other, and more on whether you can feel loved when he loves someone else.
 
Pea, I could be wrong, but it sounds like both you and your boyfriend are still studying/are college students and therefore might be quite young and inexperienced at relationships in general, yes(?) You do state you're new to "polyamory", although I'm not sure I'd classify the arrangement you had while long distance as poly, per se.

Ethics of the situation aside for the moment... what is your relationship with your boyfriend like NOW? Since you've returned and gotten back together, would you consider the quality of your interactions to be:

- Much the same as before you parted for six months. There is still a lot of love and mutual respect between you, despite the issues you're experiencing.
- Less than ideal. There is some lingering hurt, distrust and insecurity, but you're trying to deal with the fact that your boyfriend is loath to let go of his other relationship.
- Much worse than before. The relationship is full of tension and arguments. Long term outlook is tenuous at best.

I ask, because you keep saying your boyfriend turned to this other girl "for comfort"... not only while you were away from each other, but also now you're together again... which begs the question: comfort from what exactly? :confused:

This other girl's presence may be as much a symptom of your boyfriend's dissatisfaction within your (the "primary") relationship, than it is a natural outlet for his poly-ness, or his feelings for her.

So what were the issues you two were experiencing - both before you parted temporarily, and now you're back together again - that makes him feel he NEEDS someone else to whom he can go to for comfort and a listening ear? (i.e. You said he discusses your relationship with this other woman, which quite frankly I'm not sure I'd be too enthralled with if I were you.)

You said you'd witnessed some pretty obvious chemistry between them, so I am assuming it's more than companionship and affection that he seeks/gets from her. Has he SAID he is in love with her? If so, what is the point of trying to stop them or limit their interactions to kisses and cuddles? (And how would you even "police" that?)

For starters, if they don't wish to halt their relationship - even temporarily (to allow you time to process and emotionally "catch up") - there probably isn't much you can do about it... in which case, you'd have to seriously consider whether or not YOU wish to continue dating your bf under such circumstances.

May I also ask, if you're not into non monogamy/polyamory and can't bear to think of him with someone else, then what was your reasoning behind temporarily opening up the relationship in the first place? Surely you KNEW that he would be "with" other girls during that time, just as you were with other men, or at least one other man. So how is it you could deal with the idea of him being intimate with others THEN but not now?
 
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He did ask me if it was ok for me to see her, I said yes I wasn't worried because I didn't have any clue he was going to be doing that in front of me and thought they were just FWB. When it carried on for a few days and I saw their chemistry, I questioned this. He said to me I should have asked him, and I think he should have taken the initiative. What are your views on this?
It doesn't matter much if you should have asked or he should have been more open (altough I lean to the second option) - you clearly had another communication failure here.
"Are you ok meeting her?" is different from "Are you ok seeing us affectionate?" is different from "Are you ok for her to be around a few days in a row?"
Also, after seeing them affectionate for the first time you could ask/specify preferences and not wait.
That said, he might not have communicated their relationship status well in words, but it's actually great he showed it to you so openly. At least you could make an informed decision. If you didn't see them together, you wouldn't comprehend.
That's why I say it doesn't matter that much who failed to share/ask.

As for treating your new partners unethically, yeah, you both likely did that.
- to ask someone to discard relationships is dubious (especially if what you asked for was no contact entirely)
- to have a relationship as an escape (as your bf seems to do, using this girl to dump emotional baggage) is dubious
- to lead partners on in what kind of relationship you offer is super bad (I'm not sure how much of it happened here or not - your ex seems to be painting reality in rosy colors both for you and - likely - his other gf)
It's probably ok with your other partner if he knew that he was entering a relationship intended to last 6 months and what kind limitations your partnered status puts on it.

Having said that, I think he still treated you badly.
Not specifying agreements/commitments is not-so-white lies of omission to me.
Avoiding breakup in a relationship where he's dissatisfied by running elsewhere for comfort is using people.
Etc. (reread GalaGirls post)

If a committed monogamous relationship is what you want, you two sound incompatible.

I'll add you're probably not innocent in this. If he's immature and you picked him you likely have your own (perhaps) less obvious hangups.
 
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My guess is that this is a young guy who enjoys everything a girlfriend has to offer, but wants the freedom to buzz from flower to flower...

I also thought this was practically the definition of poly: the best of both worlds, the comfort of home base with the freedom to see others.

Pea, you expected your boyfriend to get himself a chew toy. Or, if we want to be crass, a receptacle. Something to placate him and entertain him while you two were apart and while you had sex with someone else, but never, ever, as a real person to be treated with respect.

Treating others like this invariably comes back to bite people...and I don't mean like a fetish to be listed on FL. Sometimes it happens in ways they don't even see and don't realize are connected to how they treated someone a year or two before.

So kudos to your BF for not treating this woman like a disposable chew toy. He made the smart and more ethical decision in not just dumping her now that you want your toy all to yourself.
 
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