New, and confused.

clearvowels

New member
Hello all,

I'm new here, and I hope I'm not posting something redundant as I haven't had a chance to look through many threads yet. Each situation seems unique in some specific way though, so I'm going to go ahead and ask for some guidance here.

I'm new to poly, but I did my homework and a lot of introspection before recently beginning to date as "non-monogamous". I started getting to know a man recently, in some detail with emails and chatting for a month before finally going on some dates, where it was immediately clear there was very strong chemistry and emotional connection. He has a wife who has a long-term boyfriend, but this is his first dating experience since being married to her. I've been clear with him that I want the around the table poly experience -- I want metamours, or at the very least to be respectful and get along. Her boyfriend travels, and is in and out of town and stays with them for a week here and there, and they will sometimes take off together for a week or so together.

Wife has let husband know that she is jealous of him chatting with me on their time, even if they are engaged in other activities at the moment, because his attention is divided. The dating schedule that's been proposed to me is focused around the times that she's unavailable (has other engagements for the eveing), and I've been told that we'll have more time together when her boyfriend is in town, because that is when she's "distracted". Boyfriends travel itinerary is often unpredictable so it's not always clear when that would be.

I'm wondering if this type of scheduling practice (around the others busy time) among primary partners is common? I feel that I'm being asked to be flexible and available and fill in the gaps where they occur, and I'm having a hard time seeing how I will feel accepted and valued if I'm just getting the time where she's distracted or busy. This already feels bad, and we aren't out of the gates yet. I haven't met her yet, and it hasn't even been mentioned. I'm having a hard time being assertive in a situation where there's already an established routine, and I was hoping for some feedback first. Thank you all so much.
 
I'm in a "closed V" so am perhaps not the best person to give advice on this particular subject, as I don't have to deal with metamours myself.

However, I'd be wary of agreeing to such a situation, straight off the bat.

You are BOTH new to polyamory, granted, so mistakes and missteps are all the more likely. However, as you've probably heard a thousand times already, open and honest COMMUNICATION is the key to healthy and successfully polyamory.

With that in mind - and considering the newness of your current/potential relationship - I think it's essential to address the topic in light of your own wants and needs, while taking into account those of your new dating partner, and to some extend those of his wife and her boyfriend.

Spend some time thinking about your personal boundaries - then express these to your new guy. Does he view his poly style (and/or that of his wife) as "hierarchical"? Are you expected to be a "secondary" to her "primary"? Does he/they assume "couple privilege"? (It sounds like it.) And if so, where do YOU stand on that? (It sounds like you're not a fan, and I can understand this.)

Have THE TALK. Negotiate on what is negotiable. You know (will feel in your soul) what is NOT negotiable, as far as you're concerned. No matter what chemistry is between you two, this is early days right now. Do not set yourself up for long term heartbreak by agreeing to others' terms without discussion.
 
The dating schedule that's been proposed to me is focused around the times that she's unavailable (has other engagements for the eveing), and I've been told that we'll have more time together when her boyfriend is in town, because that is when she's "distracted". Boyfriends travel itinerary is often unpredictable so it's not always clear when that would be.

This is what's called being a chew toy to entertain the dog while she's out of the house.

I'm wondering if this type of scheduling practice (around the others busy time) among primary partners is common?
Based on my experience and on 6 years of reading poly forums and blogs, I'd say it's more common than people want to admit. I've seen many poly wives take this attitude and become upset when their husbands/boyfriends aren't available when they [the wives] finally are. And usually it goes the path of complaining more and more about all the girlfriend's faults, the husband trying to keep the wife happy and meet her demands, and eventually the girlfriend has enough of being treated like the chew toy, and walks away.

I feel that I'm being asked to be flexible and available and fill in the gaps where they occur,
That's exactly what you're being asked to do. Entertain him when she's away so he's okay with poly, and when the queen returns to give her dog some attention, make yourself scarce.

and I'm having a hard time seeing how I will feel accepted and valued if I'm just getting the time where she's distracted or busy.
Chances are you will never feel accepted and valued under these conditions. Because you aren't, except as a distraction to keep her husband placated.


This already feels bad, and we aren't out of the gates yet. I haven't met her yet, and it hasn't even been mentioned. I'm having a hard time being assertive in a situation where there's already an established routine, and I was hoping for some feedback first. Thank you all so much.
One thing I appreciate about this forum is that many people here were very clear at least in theory, on how poly should work and on my rights as a girlfriend in a poly situation. (I was also new to poly.)

This is your relationship just as much as it's his.

If they want to practice poly--and expect a girlfriend to ever want to stay with him--then they both need to treat you like a person with feelings and rights, and the relationship like a real relationship. She needs to be willing to compromise for you just as much as you compromise for her. They don't get to just lay down the law and tell you you get a relationship with your 'boyfriend' only when she's not interested in him. That's not a relationship. That's being used to entertain the dog and keep it from chewing the couch while the owner's away.

It doesn't matter if they have a routine. You don't have to accept being treated like this. Eventually, they'll find out few if any women will stick around to be treated like this. [And my reading suggests they'll blame all the girlfriends rather than ever realizing their treatment of women is the issue, but that's their problem.]

It would be in your best interest to find the assertiveness to tell him this is not acceptable.

If you need feedback to say it's not acceptable, I'm saying it. It is not acceptable for a man or a poly couple to treat the girlfriend like something to fill in the gaps and entertain the husband while the wife is out banging other men.
 
I'm monogamous so I'm not sure how much my opinion will help, but here's the way I see it. If that set up is outright his choice, you don't sound like you'll be compatible no matter what attraction is there. If he's capitulating to what his wife wants, well, it's still his choice but it might be worth talking to him to see if he's willing to put his foot down and make his choices based on what he wants.

Personally though, I've never understood the 'well I'm home so you have to be!' attitude. But that could be because we have young children, are hard up on babysitters and whether it's friends or a date, someone has to be home.
 
I pretty much agree with previous posters.

Your potential BF is the boss of how he manages his time.

If he's basically telling you "I only want to date you when my wife is busy with other stuff. When she's around, she has all my attention and I will be unavailable to you" then that is the offer he presents you.

  • If this works for you? Go ahead.
  • If this does not work for you? Let it go.
  • Not sure? Ask more questions, then decide.

Some long term couples seem to think the spouse gets "automatic first dibs" on any free time. Because they've gotten sloppy and stopped asking each other out on dates. They just assume. Or take each other for granted or whatever.

You mentioned primary partners. Are you wanting to practice a primary-secondary model permanently? Or start out that way and be working toward co-primary? Some other kind of Open Model?

That might be something to talk about with potentials to be sure your ideas match.

Wife has let husband know that she is jealous of him chatting with me on their time, even if they are engaged in other activities at the moment, because his attention is divided.

Why's he telling you this stuff like that? Wife's jealousy is her baggage to deal with. Wife acting out at husband? That is HIS baggage to deal with. It's on him to enforce his personal boundaries and tell her to stop that behavior.

Why's he passing this baggage on to you instead of addressing it directly himself?

Is he asking you to accommodate his wife so she doesn't feel yucky jealousy?
  • In order to help him help him be free of her acting out?
  • In order for him to avoid having hard conversations with his wife? (About him being the boss of his time management, about him not always gonna be available at the drop of a hat, wife has to learn to schedule with him just like any other partner, etc)

If so? It would not turn me on.

I think everyone could carry their OWN emotional baggage. I think some disentanglement work and some learning to not be so enmeshed is part of the work couples could do BEFORE they open. I wonder if they've done enough of that here? :confused:

I rather all that stuff be ALREADY sorted out before I arrive as a potential dating partner. Asking me to take on self limiting things just because they haven't finished sorting out all their things and jumped the gun into poly?

That's not appealing to me.

This already feels bad, and we aren't out of the gates yet.

I think you could listen to yourself. If it is such a turn off you want out? Bow out.

If you need more data to make a decision? Then ask about what you want to know. Be assertive. You don't have to be afraid -- right now this is not even out of the gate. So ask the info you need to know.

  • Is this routine changeable or set in stone?
  • How much poly work has he done ahead of time? Or is he learning as he goes?
  • What can you expect from meta -- basic polite if you run into each other? Or something closer, like a tight kitchen table poly model?
  • Anything else you want to know about him and his network.

That's part of the dating process -- getting to know him and his network.

Initial attraction is just initial attraction. It might get you to initial compatibility.

But deep compatibility is something else, and not everyone you date will make it to that. Not everyone you date will be a long haul runner.

Galagirl
 
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Hello clearvowels,

It sounds like you have been relegated to second place. The wife's convenience and availability takes precedence over yours. But even if you are a secondary and you accept that role, you still have rights. See https://www.morethantwo.com/polyforsecondaries.html#bor

I can understand the wife not wanting her time with her husband to be interrupted by texting, but if she is already using that time for something that doesn't involve him, I don't see why you couldn't be texting with him then. :(

I hope you can work something out with him that's fair to everyone (including you).

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I did my homework and a lot of introspection before recently beginning to date as "non-monogamous".
I don't understand what sort of "nonmonogamy" you intend for yourself. Your boyfriend is acting in a nonmonogamous fashion, sure. But it seems that you intend to be monogamously attached to someone who at best can offer you a part-time intermittent relationship. He/they will be much easier to tolerate when you start dating someone else too.

As GalaGirl says, if that's what you want, then go for it: accept its inherent limitations. Even if there were much hope of "fixing" him, there's significantly less to "fix" their dyad, let alone her.

The choice is simple: enjoy what it is & accept that it might get worse, or walk away from the dumpster fire (asking yourself why you thought it was a good idea to get involved in the first place).
 
I think you're right to be concerned. It definitely sounds like they have a "primary-secondary" model, which might work in theory but is very hard to implement in practice without making you feel like a second class citizen.

I don't think it necessarily will help if you start dating others, too. If you can only see this person when his wife is busy, and your other partner has scheduling issues of his own that you also need to work with, you may just find yourself not seeing this first partner much at all.

I was a secondary in a relationship where I saw the person for one long date (e.g. Sat night through Sunday morning) and one short date (a couple of hours on a weeknight) for a couple of years. I wasn't dating anyone else, but I was fine with that amount of time. That, plus friend time plus alone time kept me quite busy. The hard part was not being upset or lonely when it was with her. It was feeling like a second class citizen because whenever there was a conflict about which nights I'd see him, the wife would "decide" and he would go along with what she wanted.

I think many secondary relationships have time carved out for them -- we see each other once a week on Sunday, or whatnot. If this guy and his wife are willing to do that, then at least you can assess whether you can live with having only that much time. But that time should be yours -- not for the wife to change for minor reasons.

I understand her concern about him texting during their time. Even if she's doing something else at the moment, he could get into a text conversation that keeps him mentally occupied when she's back to focusing on him. That said, there's a difference between focused-on-each-other-date time, and both-sitting-around-the-house-doing-whatever time. They should have some of the former, and he should not be texting you during that time. If she's not OK with him texting you during the latter, then they're not offering you even a secondary relationship -- more of a play partner type thing. But it may be that they need to more clearly discuss and define which time is which, and that she'll be OK with him communicating with you more than he currently thinks.

I definitely think you should talk to him about how much work he and his wife have done to understand poly and think through their wants and needs. And if they haven't done much, put the relationship on hold until they do more. I got into a relationship with someone who had not done much, and who was not interested in reading about poly, and it ended up being kind of a disaster. It's hard to ignore chemistry and focus on this kind of stuff, but you'll be sorry if you don't.
 
I'm in a "closed V" so am perhaps not the best person to give advice on this particular subject, as I don't have to deal with metamours myself.

However, I'd be wary of agreeing to such a situation, straight off the bat.

You are BOTH new to polyamory, granted, so mistakes and missteps are all the more likely. However, as you've probably heard a thousand times already, open and honest COMMUNICATION is the key to healthy and successfully polyamory.

With that in mind - and considering the newness of your current/potential relationship - I think it's essential to address the topic in light of your own wants and needs, while taking into account those of your new dating partner, and to some extend those of his wife and her boyfriend.

Spend some time thinking about your personal boundaries - then express these to your new guy. Does he view his poly style (and/or that of his wife) as "hierarchical"? Are you expected to be a "secondary" to her "primary"? Does he/they assume "couple privilege"? (It sounds like it.) And if so, where do YOU stand on that? (It sounds like you're not a fan, and I can understand this.)

Have THE TALK. Negotiate on what is negotiable. You know (will feel in your soul) what is NOT negotiable, as far as you're concerned. No matter what chemistry is between you two, this is early days right now. Do not set yourself up for long term heartbreak by agreeing to others' terms without discussion.

Thank you so very much for your helpful response. This is very different from dating I've done in that past, and what to do isn't always intuitive..having THE TALK soon..
 
Thank you to all!

Thank you to everyone for your kind and helpful responses, I am taking it all in and thinking. I appreciate it so much.
 
I said no to a very conpatible match in that situation.

Months later, they had worked through stuff, and he checked back in withxme.

It was a lovely few months that we were dating- truly one of the best of my life- until we discovered other incompatibility issues.

Say no. Explain why. Let them work it out and be backs. (It’s poly, so they will still be available, and the growth pattern is predictable- they will.). Value your gut instincts— best thing you can do in a new to you situation!
 
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