My new metamor, with history:(

Vleit

New member
My wife and I started dating a woman together. She has a lot of experience with polyamory and in leadership in my local poly Meetup group. I started falling for her hard and fast but found her communication style was incompatible with my communication needs. We had started (I thought) dating and speculating dating three different times over the past year and a half. Each time things would end due to her apparent lack of interest or consideration. One time she just flat out ghosted. The second time she stopped replying and said she was backing off then didn’t reply for a couple weeks. The last time we met, negotiated a relationship agreement/terms regarding response times. (I have some personal challenges with perceived neglect and so long as there is a previously agreed upon amount of wait time, I can handle it but it is difficult for me. In this case she said she could reply within 24 hrs. I texted her asking if she would like to meet for coffee one day and she took two days to send a generic text saying she was super busy and likely wouldn’t be any less busy anytime soon. I had previously tried scheduling a phone call previously to discuss misgivings I had about what appeared to me as lack of interest vs my infatuation.

So after the breach in agreement, generic reply I waited a few days and sat with my feelings. I texted her that I can not continue in the relationship and this would be my last correspondence. She indicated that she thought that was harsh and would have preferred I talk to her. I said I had tried.

Anyways, fast forward a few months and we ran into each other, her, her boyfriend, me and my wife. She seemed surprised and not particularly friendly or pleased to see me. It was at a concert and she later talked to my wife. She ended up taking me by the hand and hugging me and wife together. After the show she and wife discussed getting together sometime. With me she hugged me then told me I was a real jerk. I acknowledged her feelings were hurt but tried to share I had tried. Anyway, didn’t leave things warm and fuzzy but we did talk about getting together for coffee. I texted that evening I was glad we ran into each other and she never replied (shocker). She was exceptionally drunk and it’s possible she didn’t mean the good things she said when we were talking or forgot she said them.

Sooooo. Wife says she is interested in dating her and I’m trying to be kind and loving. Trying to give her the freedom I would like to get from my wife. I am ok most of the time but find it particularly difficult as 1) this will be the first separate dating either of us have done, 2) I don’t feel great about her dating someone I struggled to get over, 3) she wants to date someone who right off the bat thinks I’m a jerk, I feel unhappy about this choice but I have shared as much and said she is welcome to date her if she wants.


So, poly people, any similar experiences? Can you share any mantras you used to help with the discomfort?

I imagine any first like this is going to be challenging but It is extra challenging when feelings remain. Both hurt and affection.
 
Okay, to be fair, maybe you ARE hypersensitive ("prickly") & reading too much into it. But even if I take that into account, there's so many yellow flags that I think it'd be best all around if you step away.

If it was me, I'd say there was no "relationship" with her except in the sense that I have a "relationship" with my regular taxi driver or the woman who delivers my mail. ;)

It's been more than a year. She just isn't into you. Her excuses are lame & wouldn't fool a ten-year-old.

It sounds more like your first poly crush than anything substantial. You get crap when you pursue her, you get crap when you don't; that's sometimes called a no-win situation. Accept the loss as learning, & move on.

You say your wife "is interested in dating her." Do you mean "meeting at Starbucks once in a while" or "regularly fucking for hours"?

"My wife and I started dating a woman together." In what way does "together" apply here?

If she starts talking you down or otherwise trying to drive a wedge into your dyad, then it's up to your wife to decide whether she'll tolerate such BS, & first up to you to ask your wife to take some firm stance.

(That's one of the few "rules" Annie & I had: someone who insinuates they're going to use our openness to push us apart should be warned, ONCE, then cut adrift if it recurs. I only had to go that far once; Annie did it twice.)
 
Hi Vleit,

So the woman you used to date has transitioned into being your ex, and then now into being your metamour. It sounds like a hard transition to go through, I don't blame you for feeling upset/hurt. It sounds like you may be somewhat torn between not wanting to restrict your wife's freedom, and between wishing your wife wouldn't use that freedom in this particular way. You are still in the midst of the healing process from the breakup. Your wife's involvement with this woman threatens to interrupt that process.

Would your wife be willing to keep her relationship with this woman very separate from your awareness? such as not mentioning her to you, and not having her over to your house when you are there? or would that just make your imagination run wild, wondering what was going on?

In any case, you are in a difficult spot. I don't envy you.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
Sooooo. Wife says she is interested in dating her and I’m trying to be kind and loving. Trying to give her the freedom I would like to get from my wife. I am ok most of the time but find it particularly difficult as 1) this will be the first separate dating either of us have done, 2) I don’t feel great about her dating someone I struggled to get over, 3) she wants to date someone who right off the bat thinks I’m a jerk, I feel unhappy about this choice but I have shared as much and said she is welcome to date her if she wants.


So you are saying to wife..."It's ok with me if you date this person who has hurt me in the past."

Why say that if it really is not ok with you? :confused:

Since dating separately is one load to process -- can't we leave it at one load?

You are not able to tell wife "Wife, jumping into a triple load thing is hard. Can we just leave it at one load? You dating separately? A new person that doesn't come with baggage or bad history?

Does it HAVE to be triple load here -- you dating separately + dating my ex who hurt me in the past + this person who called me a jerk last time we saw her?

Where in that does it sound like "best person to date right now?' "

Is wife not aware of how this person treated you in the past and more recently? When this ex ghosted before or was not responsive... did it not bug wife? Who was also dating her at that time?

Why not keep this simple on you? Just tell her you prefer she date someone less complicated than that.

Galagirl
 
I am currently dating two people who used to be involved with each other, albeit, on a more casual basis than my relationship with either one of them.

Jester hurt Boho when he ended the physical side of their relationship in order to pursue a more serious thing with me. (Essentially he broke things off with her when we got together, though they remained close friends.)

Eventually (about a year later), Boho and I began dating independently of my relationship with Jester.

*********

I wouldn't recommend this path to anyone, in hindsight, although we are finally making it work. It has been an extremely rough road, emotionally, as it took a long time for Boho to heal from the hurt and not hold anything against either one of us, even though she loves us both in different ways.

From my angle, there are always those little triggers (recycled nicknames, shared songs, certain memories etc) that whisper more insidiously than anything spoken aloud, "see, you're not that special... she was here first", and prompt feelings of hurt/jealousy/insecurity.

**********

What did work for us, and what I would say to you IF your wife (or yourself) is determined NOT to "veto" this person as a dating partner is... compartmentalisation and communication are your best friends.

Keep the relationship/dyads (you/wife and wife/other woman) as separate as you can. Since there still appears to be bad feeling there - both HER towards YOU (the "jerk" comment, which may have been in jest) and YOU towards HER (because you're just starting to get over this woman) the last thing you need is to have this woman constantly invading your private space in her pursuit of your wife.

That is where communication comes in - between you and your wife. Sure, she's within her "rights" as an independent, free person, to date whoever she feels drawn to. However, your wife must understand why this particular woman may make your "messy list" (i.e. people who may cause complications by their addition to the polycule).

If she insists on dating her anyway, I think you ought to make your own boundaries known ASAP (whatever lines you may have that you don't wish to have them cross) - and perhaps fine tune specific agreements around those boundaries.

For example:
- They'll date outside your home only for the first *however many* months.
- You won't be attending local poly group meetings where this woman is running the show.
- You don't want to know the details of their sex life. etc.

**********

I'm still a little confused as to IF you were ever "officially" in a relationship with this other woman. And IF SO, what you meant when you said you and your wife dated her "together" at that time. (Your OP wasn't clear in parts.) Therefore, if I've misconstrued anything, I apologise.

Like some of the other respondents, I'd be wary of your wife's reasons for choosing to date this woman (again?) at this time, considering how much she hurt you and how indecisive she seems.

As I said regarding my own experience of dating people who USED to be involved with each other, it ain't easy. Don't get paranoid, but keep your eyes open for any kind of emotional funny business, especially in the early days. You never know, she just might not have been "that into you", but you may work as friends after some time of she and wife dating.
 
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So many helpful responses to my original post. I am deeply appreciative of your time and the insights you shared. I will try to answer the questions all at once.

Relationship dynamic
Wife and I had met L and gone on dates with her all together several times over the period of about a year and a half. In that time there were at least two big start/stops. The first was entirely on her, she flaked big time. Just up and stopped replying to any text messages from me. She continued texting my wife but eventually stopped that too. There were times (before ghosting) when she would cancel last minute with us but she is a single mother, enrolled in college and working at least two part time jobs so I had given leeway assuming it was just crazy work schedule. She also has other partners.

After several months of no talking we (she and I) started messaging again back and forth. It seemed pretty frequent and then, just as before there would be increasing space between replies. We made plans to all get together. We did and when things started to turn very lightly physical, my wife didn't seem to be as comfortable as she or I and so she (L) told us the next day she was backing off.

After I replied to her silence with my own confusion as everything seemed to be going well and my wife independently shared her enthusiasm for the previous nights activities, no reply from L for a couple weeks. I finally reached out and said I would like to discuss over the phone or in person to get closure as I'm not sure what happened. She agreed and we all met. She gave the impression she was just using "processing time" and that with her busy schedule, this is not uncommon for her. She wasn't sure how we all felt and that we needed to work on discussing so everyone was on the same page. I shared that no replies are something I can not accept. She said she can reply to any text within 24 hours.

After this we agreed to get together in a week and set a date. She came over, we all had a great night and ended up having a threesome. The interaction was a little even in the beginning but then it switched to more my wife and L, which was to be expected since these two women are blessed without being subject to...er..involuntary timeouts :eek:.

Then after we all talked about how we felt. Two days later I took L on a date and the date (just the two of us) felt like it went exceptionally well. She was more affectionate than usual with me. somewhat playful and cuddly. I was swimming in positive emotions and excitement. Prior to this date I never knew if I was more the "kid brother" "tag along" in this triad or if she was interested in me too. She had sparkles in her eyes and long held gaze and smile that showed me she liked me. she even said as much on the drive back to our cars, telling me she likes me and she finds me attractive.

Then all the other stuff I already mentioned. My texts, attempt at talking on the phone. then my breakup text.

When we saw her at the concert, she said I was a jerk for how I broke things off. That I affected more relationships than just me and her. I said I had tried to talk to her and she didn't reply, this was a hard limit and she had previously agreed on 24 hour replies. I also told her that I felt like she just wasn't that into me and she said that would be very stupid to think that.

She said I have a lot of work to do before doing poly again. She has no idea the amount of work I am doing, personal and in my relationship. She also had/has no concept of what is on the line and what I had risked for this relationship. The effort I put in, the heartache and disappointment, giving her so many chances and benefit of the doubt. She was hurt one time (when I texted I was cutting off communication) and that was enough for her. I'm fine with that but all of her behaviors seemed to indicate to me lack of interest. I have no doubt she was/is interested in my wife. I still feel like I was being used to bring them together.

Outcome so far
L had invited my wife to go to a friend's house to see the professor and his wonder women movie. I said it made me feel uncomfortable but I would be ok. Then I started thinking about how L had called me a jerk, treated me so inconsiderately and started feeling confused about what (if anything) it said that my wife was interested in dating someone who so blatantly disrespected her husband. I thought how I wouldn't like someone who called my wife a jerk and said her thinking something was "stupid". This in addition to all the other baggage their relationship would have, and the fact this would be our first dating separately experience, I ended up telling her she was free to make her own decisions but if she pursued this relationship I would need to respond accordingly in order to get the self care and self esteem attention I need and this would be by way of some increased alone time on my part and distancing myself from her (wife). Wife said she didn't want to create this level of difficulty and she didn't want me to distance myself from her. she decided she preferred to hang out with me and the kids to going to the movie. I don't know if they have continued texting and I kind of don't want to ask.
 
I don't think you were wrong to be up front with L about wanting better responsiveness to texts. She agreed to do better on that. When she didn't follow through, you tried to check in on what's going on. Still no response. So you ended it rather than go for another round of loop-de-loo. That gets tiresome, so I think it is was fair to end it.

That doesn't make you a "jerk" or your thinking "stupid." You and L are not compatible for dating because you have different communication styles. You aren't getting what you need from the relationship. Why keep pursuing it?

I don't know why L chose to make it be a name calling thing rather take responsibility for her behavior. She could have said "Yeah, I thought I could do it but no. I cannot respond fast enough for us to be a match. So no. We are not compatible. Sorry."

She could have chosen to let it end with some dignity rather than with insults.

I am glad you were up front and honest with wife about how you feel about wife dating your ex. I think you were fair in telling your wife honestly what you are and are not up for. And that if she chooses to pursue you will have to maintain some distance for your own well being.

Also glad wife decided not to pursue the movie date with L. Sometimes it's just not worthwhile to pursue messy people like that.

Hopefully she can find a more "neutral" person to date, esp since you are both just starting to date separately. That's enough load to process without complicating it by wife dating your hurtful ex.


Galagirl
 
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Vliet,

L sounds a little narcissistic to me. By that, I mean that it was SHE who acted in a flakey "don't know what or who I want" manner, and did the start/stop communication during precious iteration/s of your relationship. YET she has, for whatever reason, decided YOU were the bad guy here and is trying to turn the situation around and insinuate that YOU are to blame for HER actions - i.e. opting out of the relationship with no warning/ghosting, before, and not sticking to the level of communication she later promised. Your requests were not unreasonable, IMHO.

Either that, or she is just an extremely self-absorbed person; one of those "experts" who believe she and she alone knows how to do poly "right". She has some gall telling you that YOU have a lot of work to do before you should attempt to be polyamorous.

*****

At this stage, I don't think it really matters whether she is/isn't, or was/wasn't "into you" in the past. Clearly, she was interested to SOME degree, but her messages were mixed, at best. Now she's more interested in your wife. However, your wife seems to be taking your feelings into consideration (a good sign) and decided not to attend this movie/date with L.

You say that, despite your wife's decision NOT to go to the movie, you don't know if the two women have continued messaging... and you're not sure you want to ask.

I think you SHOULD ask! Not out of a desire to get all up in their business or be controlling... but I think you ought to know exactly where this potential relationship or flirtation is "at", given the history and recent goings-on. The last thing you need is for this to turn into a secretive thing because wife (or L) sense your disapproval, but don't actually want to stop seeing each other.
 
Thank you all for the replies. They have confirmed what I was thinking as well. One of the harder aspects of relationships in general stem from my codependency and not trusting my own principles and values because often I am overly sensitive or perceive “signs” of problems when it isn’t the case. I also have been told and can verify that I tend to move very quickly in the development of my feelings and the importance of the relationship. I am seeking professional help with this and doing the work associated with these deficits.

My wife has said that she sees the relationship with L being more physical and less emotionally charged/invested for her and that she wasn’t as offended by the intermittent responses etc. To which I would conclude, part of this confidence would be due to the affirmation from L that she was/is into my wife.

It was a rude awakening when we started this open/poly journey just how disproportionate the interest in my wife vs interest in me would be. We are both in our late 30’s, have kids and are married. We don’t drink or get out to parties/bars or clubs very often and still it seems my wife could throw a pebble over her head backwards and hit someone interested in seeing where things go.

This revelation occurred after my first five days on okc in which I had maybe 6 “likes”. I didn’t try to hide my gloating as I showed my wife who was still creating her account. The next day I showed her “up to 7 ;)” and watched as she opened her new account. Mind you, my seven was after messaging at least 30 women, maybe six of which replied. She had yet to send a message and already her “likes” notification stop displaying a number and instead an infinity sign in its place. I don’t know if I’m imagining this anymore as it was a year ago but I recall seeing her inbox filling with new messages in real time.

It was at that moment I started to realize the extent to which our sex shaming sexist culture has made sexually empowered/interested women such a scarce occurrence that the majority of people opening up, swinging or new to polyamory and or coupled are only interested in a woman. (There is a part of me that LOVES the fact that the very thing sexist, male centric culture has sought to prevent and the tactics that have been used has put women in a ridiculoussly powerful position in terms of opportunities for relationships, to a much larger degree than is probably natural. This part of me is my only solace in light of the bleak implications it has for me.). By this I mean, slut shaming women for even a hint of interest in sex, while much more overt interest from men can be assumed and accepted without even expressing said interest, has put open women on a much higher plane of sexual relevance and desireability than I think would be the case if our culture treated everyone equally and was sex positive, regardless of sexual preference, gender identification or sex drive.

I believe a greater acceptance culturally, of female bisexuality and homosexuality than male also drives up the scarcity of available and interested women seeking men.

And even with my stated observation, I have not viewed intimacy with both genders equally. This is dispite the fact that I can clearly see how a relationship can feel threatening despite gender identification. At least I am aware of my own biases and I am actively challenging these beliefs.
 
I agree, men tend to have a notoriously difficult time finding interested women on sites like OKC. Women seem to have the opposite problem.
 
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