What am I missing here or overlooking

Hello

Long time since I have been active here. :)

Anyway, I am married. Have been together for 17 years. We have a mutual friend pip. Best friend actually. We do everything together. We have for well over a year now, actually going on two years. Pip is very involved in our life and we are in hers. Meaning we fix things in each others houses, holidays have been shared (we trick or treat at her house with my kids and my adult kids and their family)(we also shared valentines day all together this year). Pip knows our children very well and they love her (she snuggles with my daughter and trims her bangs) so our family is already very meshed with hers.

Fast forward to the past week. Things have happened (her and my husband danced) very intimately. So we are now talking what that means. She is straight but we have strong feels for each other. We do each others hair, lock arms when we walk and we are even now talking about sharing clothes. But they (pip and husband) would like to get physical.

So here is where I am at. They are both mono. He has no interest in dating her alone, she has no interest in dating him alone.

The synergy that me and her have is amazing. She told me that when she first saw me 3 years ago (we worked together) she was so nervous and did not want to come off as a total dork because she was so drawn to me.

We all talk so well and things are talked out if someone has a problem. We can talk about everything and are not worried about being turned away or embarrassed.

So why am I worried. I do not want to lose her. He does not want to lose her. Our friendship is worth so much to us. So we are taking things so very slow. Also to throw another dynamic into this we are all into bdsm so we are wanting to explore that. We get together (this ranges from once a week to 3 times and would be more but we are all busy with jobs) we all get together or me and her go out and it is the most natural love I have ever felt next to my husband.

So why am I so worried.
 
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Hi Belladonna,

I think it is natural to be worried when (big) things are changing. You love Pip, and value your friendship with her. You see that she is moving into another dimension with your husband. That worries you because it is a big change. Change is always a risk. Things can go wrong. But, the lack of change is also a risk. Maybe this change is a blessing.

You are wise to take these changes slowly. If you'll keep on posting in this thread as the situation evolves, we can give you more advice, more updated advice. Right at this moment, it seems to me that you are already doing everything you should be doing. If that changes, I'll let you know.

Wishing you the very best,
Kevin T.
 
Take things slow she said. That did not happen. One thing lead to another and we ended up in bed together. 😬 but the thing is, it was so natural. So effortless. We have had threesomes before but nothing even close to what this was. We laughed, things were clumbsy and things were beautiful. Next to sex with my husband it was the best sex I have ever had. Love?
I have never had something like this that is so effortless. Nre? I am sure. Maybe?
 
There's probably some NRE going on ... and that is fine as long as you are aware of it. It sounds like you guys had an awesome threesome together. And that's a good thing. Just let things develop naturally, as they will. Don't rush it, you'll know when the time is right. For each little thing.
 
Quit questioning it...lol.

It sounds like this is one of the few triads that wasn't forced. In reality you did take it slow. It's just progressing to the next phase.
 
Update:

Pip talks a lot about us getting matching lingerie, matching sex toys, etc.

But then today she followed up with I do not want to lead you on and that this a platonic friendship. Now when we had the threesome me and her did not do anything to each other. Even though I am bi I am also demisexual and I am not even on that level of wanting to have sex with her if we ever do. I am more on the ace lesbian scale.

I really do not know what to say or do. She brings up the lingerie, sex toys. I dont even own that stuff, but I have a very open mind, so I am open to it.

I feel shot down with out even asking for something by what she said about being platonic.


Also, pip has asked me a lot about what we can do with madmaxx, what he likes, and if there is emotional support needed she comes to me. I am beyond confused as to what is happening
 
Perhaps you have stronger feelings for Pip than you previously realized? Is there any chance that Pip's feelings for you might grow in the future? How does Madmaxx feel about this, or does he even know about it?
 
Perhaps you have stronger feelings for Pip than you previously realized? Is there any chance that Pip's feelings for you might grow in the future? How does Madmaxx feel about this, or does he even know about it?

Yes I do think I have strong feelings for her. But I also know I am not looking to be on an escalator with her either.

The things she says to me and her actions are very different then the statement she made.

She says she has thought about going bi with me but she knows thats not her.

Madmaxx likes the group dynamic. He is not poly.
 
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I wonder if she has stronger feelings for you than she is prepared to admit. In any case, you can only go by what she tells you.
 
I wonder if she has stronger feelings for you than she is prepared to admit. In any case, you can only go by what she tells you.

That makes sense. I think there is a lot of feelings happening that everyone is not ready to admit.

For three people who are not poly this is new. (I tried it myself and can be but when we decided to go back to being monogamous it was easy) and madmaxx dabbled but it was never for him.
 
On the surface, this situation sounds like it may have a great chance of working out.

However, I see a few glaring yellow flags:

- Pip seems confused; though I'm not sure if it's about her sexuality, her feelings for you, or where she wants to take the relationship/s.

- She flirts and talks about really personal sexual things with you, then backtracks and says she's not sure how she feels... or if she can ever do the 'bi' thing.

(It's possible she's in denial about her sexuality, having always thought of herself as a straight woman. And it may just take her some time to warm up to the idea of becoming more physically intimate with you. However, there are NO guarantees! She may have zero desires in that realm, or just not be into you in that way.)

- Meanwhile, she's cosying up to you, agreeing to threesomes and pumping you for info on what your hubby likes in and out of bed. Yet, knowing he is not technically poly and won't leave you... do you think it's possible she is stringing you along in order to get closer to your husband? Be wary of this, please. Even if she's not doing this consciously, as your best friend Pip must know you are bi (albeit 'ace' when it comes to f/f) and there is great potential for her to mess with your head and heart in the process. :(

- He claims he's tried poly and isn't into it, but Madmaxx seems content to do the group thing, bedroom wise, and share other aspects of his intimate life with two women who he loves or at least is VERY close to. Maybe it's not on a traditional "escalator", but isn't this ersatz poly anyhow?? :confused:

- You claim that none of you are polyamorous, per se, yet I notice you've listed Pip as yours and Madmaxx's "partner" in your signature/footer, below. What is that about?

**************

This is all food for thought, Belladonna. No need to answer these questions here, if you can't or don't wish to.

However, I think it's beyond time that you three ALL sat down and had an in-depth discussion about what you EACH want... and where you see this heading in the future.

Like I said, on the surface of things, it sounds like a situation that could work out quite positively. But I also see great potential for heartache, especially where either of you women are concerned. Madmaxx appears to be getting his needs met here, while Pip wants more with him, and you want more with her. There are also children involved who are close to all parties. Apologies if I'm off track with any of this.
 
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On the surface, this situation sounds like it may have a great chance of working out.

However, I see a few glaring yellow flags:

- Pip seems confused; though I'm not sure if it's about her sexuality, her feelings for you, or where she wants to take the relationship/s.

- She flirts and talks about really personal sexual things with you, then backtracks and says she's not sure how she feels... or if she can ever do the 'bi' thing.

This this very confusing to me. It is the weirdest mind f I have ever had. Especially since it is all her. She sent me a erotica audio clip yesterday. I would never send anyone that I wasn’t in a relationship with. Mostly because I wouldnt want them thinking something its not. Also she wants us to get matching underwear, matching sex toys and she is even thinking of just having one at each house that we share.

(It's possible she's in denial about her sexuality, having always thought of herself as a straight woman. And it may just take her some time to warm up to the idea of becoming more physically intimate with you. However, there are NO guarantees! She may have zero desires in that realm, or just not be into you in that way.)

- Meanwhile, she's cosying up to you, agreeing to threesomes and pumping you for info on what your hubby likes in and out of bed. Yet, knowing he is not technically poly and won't leave you... do you think it's possible she is stringing you along in order to get closer to your husband? Be wary of this, please. Even if she's not doing this consciously, as your best friend Pip must know you are bi (albeit 'ace' when it comes to f/f) and there is great potential for her to mess with your head and heart in the process. :(

The threesome was all her idea. We went back to her place and she asked if we could all snuggle in her bed. My feeling for her are very strong so I was very into that, one thing let to another and well the threesome happened.
It was wonderful but now I see things I wish I saw before.

- He claims he's tried poly and isn't into it, but Madmaxx seems content to do the group thing, bedroom wise, and share other aspects of his intimate life with two women who he loves or at least is VERY close to. Maybe it's not on a traditional "escalator", but isn't this ersatz poly anyhow?? :confused:

- You claim that none of you are polyamorous, per se, yet I notice you've listed Pip as yours and Madmaxx's "partner" in your signature/footer, below. What is that about?


Yes it is confusing. I listed everyone on the footer so as a reference and I honestly thought she was/is part of our life.

I think madmaxx has a lot of thinking to do. He tends to do and then think later. He likes group work.
**************

This is all food for thought, Belladonna. No need to answer these questions here, if you can't or don't wish to.

However, I think it's beyond time that you three ALL sat down and had an in-depth discussion about what you EACH want... and where you see this heading in the future.

Like I said, on the surface of things, it sounds like a situation that could work out quite positively. But I also see great potential for heartache, especially where either of you women are concerned. Madmaxx appears to be getting his needs met here, while Pip wants more with him, and you want more with her. There are also children involved who are close to all parties. Apologies if I'm off track with any of this.

I think you are very correct and I can see so much heartache. I also realized I am doing all of the emotional lifting. I take care of pip in every way possible yet do not get the title of a partner. Yet my husband is seeming to get all the credit.
I also see the potential for more problems but I have not put my finger on that yet. Madmaxx and I have a ds/lg relationship. I am taking care of by him in a way I believe she may want. But we have been together for 17 years. So he knows exactly what i want and is very catering to me. I do not believe he can fully do that for her. When we all go out she has never had to lift a finger (meaning he gets our drinks, pays for everything, holds doors, etc) (everything a gentleman would do but more) because that is just what he does for me so he would do that for anyone I was with.


As this time all sex is put on hold. Until we can figure out what everyone wants.

Also I put replies into the quote but have to figure out how to change the color of the font.
 
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I am thinking Madmaxx will get better at meeting Pip's needs as time goes on. He will get more experience. In the meantime, the three of you may want to sit down together, to check in with each other, and express each other's current wants and needs. I would actually recommend doing that regularly for awhile. Like once a week or once a month. Have a regularly scheduled day/time when you do it.
 
Update:

Things are much better and communication is going pretty good.
Her and I talked and we are exploring our sexuality together.

I am doing a lot of work on my self. Learning how to love without asking for it back. Talking things out instead of silently suffering for it to only come out later.
And how to correctly ask for reassurance. The last one is very hard for me. Many of my past relationships have always shut me down when I have asked so I found different and not so healthy ways of asking.

I also know that all 3 of us have a lot of trust issues. We are all working on that without pushing the other.

Currently we are monogamous with each other but I know that will change once she finds another and she will be monogamous with him. The same goes for us. If she moves on we will go back to being monogamous with each other.

As far as madmaxx meeting her needs. He is very set in his ways. He will not change for anyone. But luckily if we can all rely on each other we can all meet each others needs.
 
I could be wrong in my impression... but I agree with lunabunny that there might be some yellow flags you might want to get clear on sooner rather than later. There's potential for it to work out ok, but there's potential for things to get haywire. I think a talk might be in order.

They are very set that we are not poly and only fwb.

Then maybe "Closed" could describe that you guys are not looking for more casual sex partners than this group at this time. (Unless she finds a new dating partner she wants to become lovers with. In which case the plan is that this casual sex grouping will break up. And she will go off with the new partner to be lovers with them. And you two will remain together, lovers with each other.)

That seems to be the agreement at this time. You correct me if I am wrong.

So here is where I am at. They are both mono. He has no interest in dating her alone, she has no interest in dating him alone.

Mono HOW? Monogamous? Like only want to be in 1:1 relationship? Then why be in this multi people thing?

Like monoamorous and only want to share love with 1 sweetie even if up for sharing sex with more than 1 concurrent lovers? Well, for each person... who is the sweetie that gets the love in this grouping? And does it match and all are clear on that or not? Because sometimes sharing sex leads to feelings developing. Then what?

Right now....

  • Sounds like he loves you, and enjoys the casual group sex. He does not love her. And he does not want anything like poly. You are ok with that. Is she?

  • Sounds like maybe she crushes on him or loves him. And maybe not into you like that. Is that ok with him/you?

  • Also sounds like maybe she might engage in group sex with you in the mix to gain access to him. Is that happening?

  • And you love him and crush on her... Is that ok with him? She brings up being platonic friends... so maybe she doesn't want to share love or sex with you?

All all this unclear behavior or unarticulated stuff confuses you.

Like the mixed messages of "we are platonic friends, I don't want to lead you on... let's get matching lingerie and sex toys... let's share ideas to sex up your madmaxx."

If she deliberately says one thing, do another, it is not esp kind. If she isn't aware it comes across that way? You may have to say "Look, this comes across as mixed messages. What do you mean? Could you clarify?"

I don't think you can call it "platonic friendship" if you guys share group sex and other sex activities. Because "platonic" means close and affectionate but no sex. Maybe she means she first thought she could do a casual sex trio but now realizes that she prefers more like a casual sex V with Maddmax as the shared lover. Ask her to clarify before you guys get deeper into this.

I've never been fond of the "FWB" label. I rather call it "casual lovers with no strings attached." Because they are MORE than friends. I don't share sex with my friends. But a casual NSA lover has less entanglements than a permanent BF or GF or spouse lover that I may have other strings with (houses, finances, kids, etc) because there are no strings like that here. Once the good time is over, it is over.

I want my friends as friends and my lovers as lovers. I find fuzzy definitions or fuzzy boundaries annoying/confusing and don't groove on that. I know some people like to be more fluid, but I don't. I prefer clarity.

What do you prefer? If you prefer something more clear cut? In your talks maybe you could all articulate what you want out of this relationship to be sure all are on the same page.

Cuz if he wants NSA group sex, and she wants to love only him and kinda strings you along to get to be with him rather than saying she only wants to be with him, and you want to love him and her? Everyone wants different things. You guys would be misaligned and it could lead to hurt feelings if you all don't sort it out early.

I also know that all 3 of us have a lot of trust issues.

To me the way to solve trust issues is to practice honesty and lay it all on the table PLAIN. See what lines up and what does not. There is a risk to feeling vulnerable and putting things out there plain. But confidence is grown by DOING, not by hiding from it.

Saying one thing and doing another... or having unarticulated expectations or assumptions...that's not a recipe for trust building or clarity to me. That's a recipe for murky.

We all talk so well and things are talked out if someone has a problem. We can talk about everything and are not worried about being turned away or embarrassed.

Could trust in that then and lay all the stuff out on the table PLAIN.

I think if it turns out that she's mostly into him? Stop trying to be a group sex trio. She could be with just him as a casual lover rather than group sex with him AND you. If that is not wanted or doesn't work? Let it all go. Not just for now while talking things out, but let it go permanently. Everyone could stop sharing sex as casual NSA lovers until she finds a new dating partner she wants to be lovers with.

Could be friends only while she's seeking her next dating partner/lover instead.

And then over time you won't be crushing on her so much, esp when she doesn't return those feelings and/or gives mixed messages. You seem to not like that you do most of the emotional labour here -- so there would be less to process then too.

Could exercise clearer boundaries for yourself and articulate them to the others so they know what you are and are not looking for/up for. They might be all fuzzy with their stuff, but you don't have to be. You could be very clear on your stuff.

Galagirl
 
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I've never been fond of the "FWB" label.
I want my friends as friends and my lovers as lovers. I find fuzzy definitions or fuzzy boundaries annoying/confusing and don't groove on that. I know some people like to be more fluid, but I don't. I prefer clarity.

Cuz if he wants NSA group sex, and she wants to love only him and kinda strings you along to get to be with him rather than saying she only wants to be with him, and you want to love him and her? Everyone wants different things. You guys would be misaligned and it could lead to hurt feelings if you all don't sort it out early.


I prefer clarity also. I think Gala girl makes some great points; well articulated.

Before I was with either of my current partners, Jester and Boho, those two were "together" in an UN-defined relationship (I call it "FWB" in my profile/signature, for want of a better way to describe it.)

Back then, this lack of clarity manifested like so:

- Jester considered their relationship one of close "friends With benefits"; with emphasis on the "friends" aspect. While he liked Boho as a person very much, and enjoyed sexual intimacy with her if they happened to be spending time together in person... he was not "in love" with her.

- Boho, meanwhile, believed they were "lovers" in the sense that they truly were "in love" with each other - despite the fact that neither had declared any specific "relationship escalator"-type commitment beyond that they had a "special" friendship... nor had they a monogamous agreement (Boho being married and Jester having other casual sex partners, at the time).

The differences in the way they each viewed their "relationship"/friendship at this point may seem negligible - however the lack of any clearly defined feelings, agreements and future plans proved to be a source of pain and frustration when a new person arrived on the scene... as Boho had assumed she and Jester would simply carry on with their relationship "as is", despite any potential "outside" involvement, while as it turned out, Jester didn't share this perspective when reality bit.

I relate the above, Belladonna, because I really believe you three need to do some soul-searching AND continue to discuss your own individual wants, needs and boundaries with each other IF you're going to continue with the FWB/closed/poly-fidelitous aspect (including shared group sex) into the future.

However, if ALL of you cannot reach a consensus that is more "hell, yes!" than cautious or reluctant acceptance, then perhaps it is time to review this arrangement - if not overhaul it altogether and go back to BFF status while Pip looks for that monogamous male life partner she really seems to be after.
 
Hi Belladonna,

It sounds like things are going better; that's good to hear. Keep the communication going, keep working on those individual issues.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
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