Processing Emotional Anger

Metamour made a comment to hinge "I can't wait until it's just you and me again."

My anger keeps coming back up despite my logic. I pointed out if I ever said something like that, it would be seen as an attempt to cowboy the hinge away from his other partner. And I pointed out that he would break up with me, as he broke up with the last partner that wanted him to leave his wife/first partner to be with her.

He has said that the metamour has no control over our relationship and can't make that a reality. And I understand that.

He also has stated because they are married, he would not end that relationship for the statement though it would carry different consequence if his non married partner were to start speaking like that. He agreed that he has a double standard and there wasn't anything he could really do about that.

I am so tired of the double standard. Of the poor behaviors and lack of consideration for boundaries. He said he couldn't imagine me acting or speaking in that manner and I pointed out that I don't show that face to others because it serves no good. But that I did have moments, too.

I think I understand what a forum poster in the polyamory forum said months ago about the game being rigged in favor of the married metamour. It feels like a battle of attrition. She's just waiting for me to go away. He says she ignores when he replies with corrective statements.

A month ago when I said that when our children are older and more independent as we age, that I would like a third domicile for neutral and privacy, apart from my home with my loud kids and apart from his home with the metamour and the kids there. Metamour indicated she wouldn't like him to take such an action but would adjust and then indicated that she might be ok considering a very large house or duplex with the hinge shared between the two locations.

Now I feel like the person blocking progress because I refused to even consider sharing a domicile involving my children and a metamour who flip flops and hides behind untrue statements. Awpti feels that is reasonable however and understands why I would not jump to move into a shared house, but that was my dream when I started poly was a polycule tribe. I definitely would never consider moving in with someone who is waiting for me to be gone.

TheCerpent and I are life partners. Awpti and I are committed as life partners as well. The future that I want, I'm willing to wait to get it, until we are a little older and the children are more independent or grown so there is not a conflict of priorities or a taking of time for the children.

But I am filled with such rage that someone is openly just stating they are waiting for me to be gone. Prior to that statement, I had commented to Awpti that I felt like in five-ten years, that he and metamour would still be together and congratulating each other on being still together despite the conflict that polyamory has caused. And then her statement just seemed to re-inforce my perception of the most likely future.

I'm so used to being able to be proactive in building my future and the things that I want, I'm willing to work for. The only thing I seem to be able to work on is myself right now, and not necessarily my relationships. There's nothing to fight. I'm so surprised and tired of this anger and hurt. But Awpti feels like there's nothing he can do when she says things like that, because she ignores his words.

And he's right, if the metamour chooses to ignore his words, then he can't really do anything. But I am so hurt that my partner is all right staying with someone who openly wants to be rid of his other partner that he's indicated a life partnership with in terms of emotional and future commitment. I don't want him to leave her, not like an ultimatum or any thing, nor do I want to exert any power over their relationship.

I just don't know what to do with this anger. I just needed to write something out so I could focus on other things.

I started my polyamory journey open to finding family and additive relationships. I didn't have any jealousies or insecurities. I didn't care if my partners had relationships with others or sex. Here I am a year and a half later and any time I think of the hinge and metamour having intimacy, my libido just drops from fear. Because the relationship was not opened on the basis of polyamory. It was opened on the basis of sexual exploration and I am afraid that if they fix that aspect of their relationship, the foundation for mine is gone.

Awpti has indicated he thought I had a low opinion of him. And I wasn't trying to indicate that at all. I try to listen to what people tell me and he's told me he has a lazy complacent personality in his relationships, so I guess I just feared that if he had all his needs met, if hinge and metamour fix their relationship, then there's no reason to exert energy in his other relationship. I feel like all my emotional needs and fears are just reasons to display why polyamory isn't good, that I would demand too much of Awpti. I spend a lot of time processing fear and hurt because I know the metamour wants me gone and I know that when metamour is happy that Awpti is happy in his home life. I just sometimes don't comprehend what I bring that would make pissing off the metamour worthwhile, like it feels like this stress is never going to go away.

I'm hanging in there after talking to Awpti and TheCerpent because the only logical premise I can think of to calm my fears is to give it time and be patient. But I'm so angry at the metamour's assumptions and words indicating that I am a temporary thing in passing through Awpti's life. Awpti and I are moving to the stage of collaring as a symbol of commitment for the two relationships that we share and I'm planning on limited power of attorney for Awpti when we hit the two year mark. I'm planning things like a LLC and non profit organization because in three years, if all goes well, there will be a third domicile to consider and I would also want to include Awpti's children in consideration of my will when I get there.

For me, this relationship is as serious as my first permanent partnership and Awpti says he's right there with me. When I asked him how he was going to plan a future with a partner who is is always doing a 180, he said that he would plan a future on what he wanted. But he didn't have anything to say when I pointed out that a future that he wanted would truthfully include the happiness of my metamour.
 
I'm sorry you are struggling with all this.

Metamour made a comment to hinge "I can't wait until it's just you and me again."

Were you there and she said it in front of you? How did you learn of this?

He agreed that he has a double standard and there wasn't anything he could really do about that.

Not so.

  • He could change the standard.
  • He could tell her she can think whatever she wants, but not to be telling him that stuff out loud. Set a boundary.
  • He could not repeat it to you if she does say that stuff.
  • If she says it in your earshot, you could tell her not to do that.
  • If he repeats things to you, you could set a boundary and tell him you don't want to hear her devaluing you.

But I'm so angry at the metamour's assumptions and words indicating that I am a temporary thing in passing through Awpti's life.

I wonder if you get angry because you wonder if she might be right? Because if you were solid on being a permanent partner, you could ignore her easier.

I wonder if you are angry with her because that's easier than being angry at him for not speaking up in the moment? And not oversharing her comments to you?

he's told me he has a lazy complacent personality in his relationships, so I guess I just feared that if he had all his needs met, if hinge and metamour fix their relationship, then there's no reason to exert energy in his other relationship.

If he really is lazy/complacent and he values being married above all, even to the point of ignoring/overlooking poor behavior from the spouse when in another partner he would call them on it?

Then yeah. If they solve their sex problems that you were supposed to be the "solution" to and she insists on Closing? I can see your worry.

If he's not standing up for you on the smaller stuff like

  • "I tell my wife to stop talking devaluing words about my GF to me or to her"
  • "I don't repeat garbage my wife says to my GF"

then I can see where it is hard to have confidence in him standing up for him+you in the bigger stuff like

  • "No, wife. You cannot make me veto my GF."

Awpti and I are moving to the stage of collaring as a symbol of commitment for the two relationships that we share

That's fine.

I'm planning on limited power of attorney for Awpti when we hit the two year mark. I'm planning things like a LLC and non profit organization because in three years, if all goes well, there will be a third domicile to consider and I would also want to include Awpti's children in consideration of my will when I get there.

That has me going... whoa. Really? Only after 2-3 years moving to power of attorney and third home and wills? Why entangle so much so soon? Esp when this doesn't seem secure?

For me, this relationship is as serious as my first permanent partnership and Awpti says he's right there with me. When I asked him how he was going to plan a future with a partner who is is always doing a 180, he said that he would plan a future on what he wanted. But he didn't have anything to say when I pointed out that a future that he wanted would truthfully include the happiness of my metamour.

To me that sounds like he says he's right there, but his actions are not totally there to back up the words.

Or maybe he IS speaking his truth. He plans the future he wants. Whether she's totally happy or you are totally happy don't matter so long as he gets what he wants.

Not fun to think about at all. :(

I hope you guys sort this out and it turns out to be a misunderstanding or something.

I hope it gets sorted so you can feel more secure in this relationship. It's hard to feel safe if it can all be shut down because he won't stand up for (you + him) as you hope.

Galagirl
 
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My question is why is the hell is Awpti sharing this statement with you?
 
Sage, I really don't understand why you are still in this relationship. Every other month, there is another post about how are you clearly being disrespected, but yet you stay? Surely you can find a healthier relationship, or would be better off on your own without someone constantly devaluing you.
 
I say this as someone who just got vetoed after over 2 years with my parnter....

If Awpti isn't willing to confirm to you that if his wife ever pulled a veto, that he would refuse and tell her that if she can't be with him while he's with you then that's her choice and she can leave... if he's not willing to potentially break up his family to stay with you (assuming there was no problem with your relationship and the problem was with meta), then you should NOT be making major financial decision with this person.

It sounds like he's willing to tell you how much he wants to be with you and how important you are to him.... but that the same time his actions indicate that his marriage gets priority. So you need clarity on that.

You also need to set up and stand firm on boundaries about his oversharing of things that the hinge says. If she wants to talk down about you and your relationship and he wants to ignore it, that's his business, but he should not be telling you these things as it serves no purpose other than to make you miserable. If he truly didn't care that his wife said that and knew that what she was saying was crap and that he had no intention of it being "just the 2 of them" again, then it wouldn't be worth sharing. Or if he did share it he would have at least been reassuring you that if an ultimatum ever came, it wouldn't result in him leaving you.

But it sounds like you're not sure that would happen, so you need to protect yourself.
 
Perhaps I'm posting every other month it seems because the information coming my way seems to 180 every other month and I'm just not sure if this is normal or not. I figure if my distress is high it's because my coping skills aren't up to par and that I'm trying to figure out how other people handle it.

As to the other questions about entanglement and finances in so short a time, there is no financial entanglement. Me wanting to leave an inheritance for children I care about is NOT financial entanglement. Me wanting to mingle durable limited power of attorney is because I want us to have the ability to visit each other in the hospital or be there if the worst happens, to care for one another and to support each other when restrictions geared toward monogamy prevent that opportunity.

I don't have mingled finances with anyone except TheCerpent and even then, I'm struggling wanting to separate finances because I feel more secure making financial decisions for what I want when I don't have to consider the negative effects on others.

I don't consider two years a short amount of time. It's a long amount of time to me. With the exception of the father of my first child and the father of my second children, there isn't anyone in my life beyond casual acquaintances that I know and can say there's a community existing beyond a year or two. I've never even lived in one domicile longer than three years except when I owned my own house from 2006-2011.

One of the reasons I went into polyamory was because I wanted a family and if I didn't have a family related by blood that I could build that community with, I thought I could make it with friends and lovers. I wanted roots and to belong, people to hang out with at holidays and to have meals with and watch TV and game with. If I die, I hope there are people who would help raise my kids rather than see them go through the government. Our society is not very caring and I've seen the foster care system (I'm a foster mom).

I don't need to assess someone for financial strength, because I can do that myself. I just need partners who have the same values as I do and who want the same things I do, so we can work on building a future together.

I know others don't look at life the same way, I gather from people thinking I'm moving too fast and all. But two years to me feels like forever. I know how I feel. If the other person knows how they feel and they are truthful, there's no reason to go at the pace of other people. If my partner thinks I'm moving too fast, then yes, I need to listen. But I generally have a rough idea of what I'm doing and how I'm doing it for about five years forward.

And so I go down my check list and trust that people are being honest with me when I ask my questions. I check in often. Two years is not fast to me, it's slow.

There isn't any thing I've co-mingled financially with Awpti other than hoping some day to afford a neutral place that we can have bonding time without imposing on a metamour in her house or having to deal with toddlers all the time, toddlers have no respect for personal boundaries and sometimes I really want a break from my toddlers to take care of what I need.

I'm not sure if that answered all the questions. I'm not going to go point by point. I mainly find that when I am upset, sometimes I can write it out and let it go. And sometimes someone comes along and can give me perspective that I didn't have and might give me a clue.

Re: Dagferi's question, the reason Awpti told me of the comment is because I made my own comment that I felt like it was a competition or a battle of attrition, and I apologized because I didn't want to make it into a game and I hoped he was not being stressed as a hinge. And he told me that my perception was accurate because he had noticed some of those comments too from my metamour.

At that point I asked him to clarify. And it was information I needed, because I had told him I didn't want to move in with her despite her willingness to share a very large house in the future. I felt like I was being the difficult one if she was willing to compromise. That's also when I found out she had asked him what he would do if I left him rather than he me. And I don't understand why she's asking those questions or making those statements.

I understand from previous discussion that some people are emotional and make decisions on feelings and that I can't always logic it our or expect people to be logical. I get that.

I just wish there was a magic answer.

I was pointing out the encroachment of boundaries to Awpti. He doesn't think the little boundaries are a big deal, not worth wasting breath or energy fighting. Whereas I see the little boundaries being ignored as a trickle effect. I think little boundaries are as important as big boundaries.

Example: Hinge doesn't like receiving hickies because they hurt. All right, it's his body, I won't give him hickies because he doesn't like them. Metamour gives hinge hickies because it's her game to pounce and give a hickie as an "I got you" even though he doesn't like it and thinks it hurts. He didn't say anything about it to her because he feels the battle isn't worth fighting whereas I think having someone respect your body is a very big thing.

I also have heard other comments that when reversed, if a man were to say those about his female partner, would indicate a lack of respect for someone's body. Little things.

I try not to care, it's not my body and not my boundary. I understand the choose your battles carefully. I just don't like the double standards.

I was pretty sure I could handle solo poly. I thought I could, as long as the metamour and I were civil and could handle minor social interactions such as passing in supper or whatnot. I'm not sure how well I'll adjust to knowing someone is just waiting for me to be gone. I suppose about as well as I adjusted to the hate comments.

I keep writing because it's an outlet for my emotions, a way to let go. I post that in a forum because I know there are others who are experiencing similar situations. I know that I kept searching multiple forums looking for answers and solutions, hanging onto hopeful situations. It helps me to read about other people who may have experienced something the same.

And it feels good to not be alone. I don't feel as alone on the forums.

I don't want the answer that pushes towards separation, either. I just want to get through the rocky parts to the stable part of the relationship.
 
Perhaps I'm posting every other month it seems because the information coming my way seems to 180 every other month and I'm just not sure if this is normal or not. I figure if my distress is high it's because my coping skills aren't up to par and that I'm trying to figure out how other people handle it.

Or you could have great coping skills, and the situation is just going beyond your limit. Everyone has a limit.

FWIW, I don't think 180 every other month is normal.

I just need partners who have the same values as I do and who want the same things I do, so we can work on building a future together.

Fair enough. Does Awpti share and practice the same values?

If the other person knows how they feel and they are truthful, there's no reason to go at the pace of other people.

You don't have to go at it like other people. That is true.

Does Awpti know what he feels? Is he being truthful?

You don't seem to be getting answers when you asked him how he was going to plan a future with a partner who is is always doing a 180.

I was pointing out the encroachment of boundaries to Awpti. He doesn't think the little boundaries are a big deal, not worth wasting breath or energy fighting. Whereas I see the little boundaries being ignored as a trickle effect. I think little boundaries are as important as big boundaries.

There you don't seem to value little boundaries the same.

I try not to care, it's not my body and not my boundary. I understand the choose your battles carefully. I just don't like the double standards.

You don't like them, but he seems to be ok with one standard for the wife, and another standard for you in regards to the hickies. Even when she does things to his body that hurt him and he does not like? He will put up with it silently.

I don't want the answer that pushes towards separation, either. I just want to get through the rocky parts to the stable part of the relationship.

You don't have to separate if that's not what either of you wants. But to make it less rocky?

You could talk together and come to the same values. Or at least agree to disagree on some things in a way that doesn't cause you stress.

You may have to have a VERY separate V where you don't even hear about his problems with his spouse or whatever she says. And definitely no living together with her.

I get that he told you her comment because you asked him to clarify something. I think it could be solved without involving her.

And it was information I needed, because I had told him I didn't want to move in with her despite her willingness to share a very large house in the future.

If you decided you don't want to live with her already? What difference does it make if she talks in devaluing ways or not? It's not like you are going live there. If the need was you needing Awpti to reassure you

  • he's not being stressed as the hinge? Ask that.
  • that you aren't contributing to his stress? Ask that.

could ask for what you need more directly and without bringing whatever she's doing over there into it.

I felt like I was being the difficult one if she was willing to compromise.

When she does 180 so often what difference does it make if she's willing to compromise today? Tomorrow could be something else.

You could leave evaluation words like "being difficult" out of it. It could have been "I don't want to live together. She is willing to live together." Plainer facts without the evaluation words.

I could be wrong in my impression so take it with a grain of salt. But it's almost like she wants you to go away, and if you aren't gonna go away, she wants to all live together so she can Queen Bee it over you. And like she does her "hickie game" to mark her territory.

And you? You want "roots and family" so you want to provide for him to see you in hospital visits maybe so he will do the same in kind so she cannot block you from seeing him in hospital.

Like both of you fighting over him, but using different tools.

I think it might be less stress to go for a very separate V, and deal with things on your side of the V only.

Provide for his kids in your will to leave them whatever gifts if you feel so inclined. It's your will. Do as you like.

Talk to Awpti about hospital visit and power of attorney then. His is his to draw up. Yours is yours.

Galagirl
 
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Hi Sageflutterby,

It sounds like your metamour is causing trouble again. Using little digs to let Awpti know that she wants Awpti to break up with you. And you feel angry because she seems to be making headway, like she is slowly eroding the rock of your relationship with Awpti. And Awpti is, to be blunt, too lazy to try to stop her. He just lets her statement stand.

I know you want to know how to get past this anger, but maybe anger is the appropriate feeling to have in this situation. Like you are being threatened, you are having a fight or flight response. The threat is real. Metamour is trying to get rid of you. And Awpti is not resisting. You should be angry at her, and even at Awpti. He is doing his own part in this situation.

I suppose it might help if you analyze this anger, try to figure out who it is directed at, and if any fears lie under it. I think you are right to post about it on this forum, posting about it helps you to analyze it, and helps you to get some catharsis as well. When metamour says something awful about you, don't just let it lie like Awpti does. Speak your mind, and let your fellow forum members do likewise. You can use the advice that makes sense to you, and discard the rest.

I know you don't want to be the cause of Awpti breaking up with metamour, but I have to say it is astounding to me that Awpti doesn't break up with her. What with her turning into Mr. Hyde every other month, it's ridiculous. She seems to have some kind of substantial mental illness. She needs therapy, probably meds as well. And Awpti should get a counselor for himself. So that he'll hear a professional telling him that it is unhealthy to give metamour free reign as if she were a bull in a china shop.

Of course, you can't make any of these things happen, you can only try to cope with your own reactions to the situation. Think of it this way. If Awpti does break up with you, at least you will never again have to deal with metamour. Not that that makes everything better, but perhaps it's a consolation. As long as you have to deal with Awpti, you have to deal with metamour as well. That is damaging to you. It makes you angry if nothing else.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
Perhaps I'm posting every other month because the information coming my way seems to 180 every other month and I'm just not sure if this is normal or not.

Fair enough, re: wanting to know how others handle similar situations. But please know, your meta's behaviour is NOT normal, nor is the incredibly difficult situation Awpti puts you in by soft-pedalling his response to her fairly regular about-faces.

Having followed your story, I don't really believe meta's attitude "changes" so much as she occasionally tries to cover up her true feelings of hostility in order to appear reasonable; presumably because she realises when she's gone TOO far and is in danger of Awpti ending things with her. She then reins her behaviour in somewhat but cannot keep it up for long.

I agree with Kevin that she is either highly manipulative and/or has some other serious mental or personality disorder that NEEDS treatment, or else this will be an endless cycle that you will either have to make peace with (perhaps with the help of a DADT-type agreement or extreme parallel poly situation as someone else suggested), or else one of you will have to bow out.

There isn't any thing I've co-mingled financially with Awpti other than hoping some day to afford a neutral place that we can have bonding time

I agree that if you continue with him long-term, a neutral place may work so much better, however it WILL presumably require BOTH of your financial input.

A question that occurs to me here: what if you and Awpti DO decide to go ahead and buy or rent a place together, but meta refuses to "allow" him to spend "their" family income on a second home? What if he decides the potential fight isn't worth the hassle, and reneges? Judging by past experience, I don't think this is a totally UN-likely scenario. Meta seems to take a vicious delight in spoiling whatever she can for you. You may need to broach the possibility well before you commit to anything major.

I don't consider two years a short amount of time.

I agree re: to two years being a reasonably acceptable time for most people in a serious relationship to start discussing/planning for their futures together. I was engaged to my ex-husband after two years of dating; had married and bought a house together after three. In my current relationship/s, things moved even faster. We're older now, with more life experience... generally we know what we want, and once we find somebody with whom we're both in love AND compatible in other ways, we may choose to just go for it after a shorter period of time.

The caveat here is "compatible in other ways". As much as you and he love each other, Awpti is not currently in a domestic situation that allows you two, as a couple, to move at your own pace and do what you want without the express "permission" of his wife. AND he refuses to leave that situation or proceed with you in such a way that you are NOT affected by the above.

Therefore, while two years may be a usual length of time for many couples to move beyond the "dating" stage, you two still have much to work out before you're truly on the same page. You may not be "entangled" YET, but I'd hesitate to become so with a mate (and meta) who cannot guarantee to hold up their end/s of whatever bargain you happen to strike.

I wanted a family and if I didn't have a family related by blood that I could build that community with, I thought I could make it with friends and lovers.

Understandably. Myself and many of my close friends came from dysfunctional backgrounds in one shape or form, and I completely understand this desire. It is essentially how I've lived most of my adult life.

That said, you must realise by now that that ISN'T going to be the outcome here. You tried; she refused to come to the party, and there is simply no way to force someone else to like you, let alone want you as "family".

You do have another partner (TheCerpent), children of your own, and (I assume) close platonic friends and others who fill this role to a greater or lesser extent.

If I die, I hope there are people who would help raise my kids rather than see them go through the government

I don't fully understand this part. I get the desire for an extended family situation or "tribe", however TC IS your nesting partner therefore I assume he has taken on the role of father/step-father. Surely HE will care for your children in the event of your death rather than have them go into foster care (?) :confused: Somehow I just don't see how they could be expected to go live with Awpti AND his wife, who clearly resents you (at best) under current circumstances.

I just need partners who have the same values as I do so we can work on building a future together.

If the other person knows how they feel and they are truthful, there's no reason to go at the pace of other people.

True. I don't believe any couple or polycule needs to proceed at anyone else's pace when THEY know best how they and their partner/s feel, and what each wants and expects. With the possible exception of Relationship Anarchists, most people in serious long-term relationships eventually feel the need to "progress" and build on that relationship after a certain point.

The concern I have with the above, in your case, is twofold:

1.) I'm not sure you and Awpti DO share the same values in some important areas. i.e. I'm fairly certain you would prefer non-hierarchical poly, but Awpti often behaves in a way that reinforces couple privilege; you are a proponent of honesty and agency over one's own body, while he is happy to "go along" without making a scene even if someone says/does something he isn't into or doesn't like.

2.) I'm not totally convinced (judging by previous posts) that Awpti is being entirely truthful with you at all times (I don't mean he's deliberately deceptive, but I do believe he often takes the "path of least resistance", and sometimes tells both you and meta what you each want to hear "in the moment", which often sees you on the losing side if a conflict with wife occurs). And I'm almost certain that your meta is rarely 100% honest with either of you. She is capricious and hypocritical (i.e. it's alright for HER to have another lover, but she tries to control Awpti's freedom to do the same).

I mainly find that when I am upset, sometimes I can write it out and let it go. And sometimes someone comes along and can give me perspective that I didn't have

And this is a good strategy, as long as it DOES help you, and you are willing to consider and absorb different perspectives/advice that may not quite mesh with the way you'd ideally WANT things to pan out.

I made my own comment that I felt like it was a competition or a battle of attrition
And he told me that my perception was accurate

And I don't understand why she's asking those questions or making those statements.

I was pretty sure I could handle solo poly... I'm not sure how well I'll adjust to knowing someone is just waiting for me to be gone

I don't think it comes as any surprise to those who've been following your story that a "battle of attrition" is exactly the game your meta is trying to play. She simply changes strategies every few months. It seems clear that, given HER choice, she'd have Awpti all to herself. For whatever reason she cannot handle the fact that he is with you; either because she has mental issues, issues with extreme jealousy/possessiveness; or possibly because she simply doesn't like you.

She makes statements like "I can't wait until it's just you and I again" or whatever, because that IS how she feels. She is pained by the fact that she is not Awpti's "one and only" and can't hold those feelings in for long.

I can only guess... but I'd say she verbalises such thoughts because she wants him to know that's how she still feels deep down, and wants him to consider that scenario as a viable option rather than allowing him to get too comfortable believing she has accepted the status quo.

I don't want the answer that pushes towards separation, either.

You may not WANT advice advocating separation, but part of being on a forum such as this means accepting that people have a diverse range of views regarding what constitutes constructive and destructive relationships... and, as polyamory promotes honest communication, those who practise it tend to feel compelled to act with personal integrity, which includes offering only perspectives they consider in another person's best interest.

As your situation has been going on for a while, seemingly without any lasting resolution, there will be people here who strongly believe it'd be in your best interests, long term, to part ways with Awpti and begin the healing process.

Maybe, against all odds, your relationship will not just survive but start to thrive, but in all honesty, I can't see that happening unless your partner breaks with meta... refuses to allow her to control his interactions with you... or she seeks professional help for her issues with possessiveness/insecurity and whatever else may be influencing her moods.

YOU have to decide for yourself how long you will invest so heavily in a relationship with a partner whose OSO exerts such a strong negative influence in your life. Awpti is not himself abusive, however this is not a healthy dynamic, and it will eventually wear away at your self-esteem, mental and possibly even physical health over time - and this in turn will affect others such as your children and other partner/s.
 
Sagebutterfly, crucial question: does Awpti agree with your plans for a shared house? Does he see himself as a committed life partner to you? Has he explicitly expressed himself on these matters?

If not, you might be shaping up the situation mostly in your head, and things get bumpy when it clashes with reality. Him telling you about his wife's comment could be an oblique way of giving you a hint. Hardly commendable, but it might be the case.

If he has said as much, then he also needs to walk the talk, otherwise it's all words and no substance.

What's certain is that it is pointless to be angry at your metamour. It's not her you are having a relationship with, and you cannot control her behaviour. It's your partner you need to sort things our with. For what it's worth, if Awpti and you make such long-term, important plans without considering her feelings on the matter (because it IS something that does impact her relationship with Awpti), it is only natural that she will feel ignored and resentful. If this is an established pattern, it could also explain her wild ups and downs. I'm going to hazard a guess that she is willing to try to make things work for all... and then feels like the two of you are treating her as a complete non-entity, solely along the lines of how she may or may not convenience you. It's hardly an enviable place to be in.
 
I said it before I will say it again Awpti is a sloppy hinge. Stop defending his bad behavior.

He is the core issue in your conflict with your metamour because he keeps adding gasoline to the fire by filling you in on what she says.

Both of my husbands have said stupid shit about the other in a moment of jealousy or stress. I have never relayed what was said to their metamour.

I think Awpti likes the drama between you too and enjoys being fought over.
 
an observation about plot continuity

This is now the tenth thread since 02 Aug 2017 dealing specifically with the deep & ongoing problems of this vee. Aside from expressing angst, I'm not seeing much "trying hard" here: the same old problems remain (maybe presented from a slightly different angle) & no progress is made by anyone.

Here's how I recall it:
Awpti "allowed" Cerpent to effectively "get a little side-action." (Strike one -- that usually doesn't work out well, particularly for beginners at nonmonogamy.) Instead, he went out & found a steady girlfriend, so decidedly NOT what Awpti had agreed to. (Strike two.) Rather than be proactive (make clear to Awpti that things will change going forward OR the old relationship must end OR the new relationship must end), Cerpent has allowed SBF to make all sorts of Romantic assumptions about how wonderful this trainwreck will be once things "settle down" meaning "get ignored long enough they magically disappear. (Strike three.)

Awpti continues to "allow" the game to stagger along. Cerpent puts up with complaints from either side, because he's the center of attention, & doesn't have to expend effort tomaintain that status. SBF comes here to complain, & fends off suggestions that Cerpent is an inept flake, & she instead prefers to discuss ways in which Awpti might be mentally ill because then everyone can heap all the blame on sick Awpti & encourage SBF to feel self-righteous, without requiring either SBF or Cerpent to so much as stop & question their roles in not only CREATING but MAINTAINING this situation.

The OP's situation is emotionally unhealthy, certainly for her but not particularly great for anyone else. As I previously stated,
It's YOUR expectations that are causing you problems. That's something you CAN fix.
It's difficult for anyone who hasn't kept up with the story to realize the twists that have already gone past, & the lack of progress made by anyone involved. It might be an improvement if any further responses link back to where it's previously been discussed.
 
Here's how I recall it:
Awpti "allowed" Cerpent to effectively "get a little side-action." Instead, he went out & found a steady girlfriend,

Awpti continues to "allow" the game to stagger along. Cerpent puts up with complaints from either side, because he's the center of attention, & doesn't have to expend effort tomaintain that status. SBF comes here to complain, & fends off suggestions that Cerpent is an inept flake, & she instead prefers to discuss ways in which Awpti might be mentally ill


Ravenscroft, while I agree with the meat of your post, you may need to edit as you've got the names wrong:

Awpti is SFB's boyfriend. TheCerpent is Sage's nesting partner.

As far as I am aware, Sage hasn't given Awpti/boyfriend's WIFE a nickname.
 
Nah, not gonna edit.

I've browsed the story since its inception. Likely, I'm not the only one losing track of continuity here -- others seem a bit vague at times of the genders involved.

Set aside names: the OP is on a path toward saintly self-martyrdom, the hinge is an inept flake yet feels righteous that he deserves whatever he desires, & the metamour has basis to feel misled & has been so disempowered that there's little left but passive-aggressive digs.

The observations stand: the situation is messed up, & will likely not change because it seems NOBODY involved has the backbone to step up & say "I am responsible for my part in this." Their (for lack of a good word) relationship is something they each feel has been inflicted on them.

To me, that doesn't seem to fit well with any definitions of polyamory.

This leaves few options past impotent whinging. Anyone who really wants to do more -- rather than seek sympathy for ineptitude -- can do more at any time. That has been true for months.

Positive change becomes more difficult with the passage of time. Habits concretize, until eventually there remains only the choice between teeth-gritted toleration & major explosion.

It's coming up on a year. Every bit of sympathy & calm reason offered to the OP mostly just burns time, & therefore undermines opportunity for emotionally healthy progress.
 
Luna, something you just pointed out really resonated with me. This villainous wife hasn't even been given a NAME in this Neverending mess.

I learned not too long ago, I'm afraid, that feeling miserable over a person does NOT equal a more "true" love. Relationships that are THIS hard and lead to this much pain just aren't worth it.
 
Set aside names: the OP is on a path toward saintly self-martyrdom, the hinge is an inept flake yet feels righteous that he deserves whatever he desires, & the metamour has basis to feel misled & has been so disempowered that there's little left but passive-aggressive digs.

the situation is messed up, & will likely not change because it seems NOBODY involved has the backbone to step up & say "I am responsible for my part in this."

Ravenscroft, I agree with the general theme of your post, above, except for the part in bold:

I have a hard time seeing the metamour/wife being a disempowered victim of this situation, mainly because SHE herself is actively polyamorous and is in a serious, long-term relationship with her male OSO. (i.e. She is married to Awpti and has children with him, but also lives with(?) or at least hosts her OSO in their home on a regular basis).

Yet, according to Sage, does not allow Awpti/Sage the same benefits. She regularly withdraws consent, interferes in their relationship and creates unwarranted drama due to her own inability to accept that what's good for the goose (herself) should also be good for the gander (Awpti). She is a hypocrite and seems unable to manage her own emotions... though admittedly, both Awpti and Sage don't appear willing to stand up to her and advocate for their own relationship.


Positive change becomes more difficult with the passage of time. Habits concretize, until eventually there remains only the choice between teeth-gritted toleration & major explosion.


Luna, something you just pointed out really resonated with me. This villainous wife hasn't even been given a NAME in this Neverending mess.

I learned not too long ago, I'm afraid, that feeling miserable over a person does NOT equal a more "true" love. Relationships that are THIS hard and lead to this much pain just aren't worth it.

Yes, at some point, something has to give.

I've always believed that if something is just "too hard" and roadblocks keep appearing everywhere you turn, despite one's best efforts, then there's a good chance the (insert appropriate scenario) just isn't meant to be.

It is the reason I've recently de-escalated one of my relationships and am refusing to go out of my way anymore to ensure that relationship remains living and breathing. ONE party cannot be the one always picking up the slack and doing the emotional work for two or more people.
 
I don't use nicknames

Luna, something you just pointed out really resonated with me. This villainous wife hasn't even been given a NAME in this Neverending mess.

I learned not too long ago, I'm afraid, that feeling miserable over a person does NOT equal a more "true" love. Relationships that are THIS hard and lead to this much pain just aren't worth it.

Awpti has given me permission to name him.
TheCerpent has given me permission to name him.
I don't have permission to name the metamour and feel it would violate her privacy to identify her as her username includes identifiable information.

All of the names I use are traceable to our other social media. It's not about keeping the other person nameless. It's about respecting her privacy.

I don't understand why how frequently I have posted invalidates the progression of the relationship. There's no set timeline or milestone that is identifiable that I can see in polyamory. Emotions don't just go away.

My emotions specifically are hard for me to manage because they aren't logical and when I post, it's because I struggle with managing non-logical, non-black and white intangibles.

I appreciate the post, Kevin, but if putting a journal out of my emotions and posting, and hoping someone else who made it through tough times can lend some advice for my situation other than to indicate that we're all whining spineless people in a miserable relationship, then I'll just stop posting. And I'll be grateful that my partners are entirely different than some of the posters.

I hear stop being spineless and stand up for your boundaries. And then I hear that the metamour is not named out of an effort to diminish her. It is because I do not diminish her needs that I have altered my expectations and actions over the course of over a year and a half. And if there really are emotional or mental health issues in play, while I have no desire to be a caretaker, it is reasonable to work around what might be considered a disability in some respects.

But I guess someone might as well just fire off getting a kick off being a martyr, but I'm not. I don't get off on being a martyr. I just don't believe I can get the community I want if I don't buckle down and work rather than abandon my relationships. I have no right to complain when I don't have the community I want if I don't put in the work and that's the mindset I have always adopted. I have always believed that when relationships are tough that partners are there to support each other, that's what makes family family.

Thank you for the advice this community has given me. I'm not interested in replies that label me and my partners as whiners and spineless. Galagirl and Dagferi and Kevin, thank you for your insight. I have found it the most helpful.
 
No you need to realize a triangle shaped peg is new going to fit a round shaped slot. No amount of manipulation is going to get it to fit.

You either need to accept that or find at round shaped peg to fit that hole.

Sometimes we do not get want we want or need out of a relationship no matter how hard we work on it. Look a wonderful relationship takes tending and care to grow but it should not be hard or painful and one partner should not be doing all the work and sacrifices.

Just becaise we love someone does not meam they are a good fit in our lives.
 
Ravenscroft, while I agree with the meat of your post, you may need to edit as you've got the names wrong:

Awpti is SFB's boyfriend. TheCerpent is Sage's nesting partner.

As far as I am aware, Sage hasn't given Awpti/boyfriend's WIFE a nickname.

Awpti has given me permission to name him.
TheCerpent has given me permission to name him.
I don't have permission to name the metamour and feel it would violate her privacy to identify her as her username includes identifiable information.

All of the names I use are traceable to our other social media. It's not about keeping the other person nameless. It's about respecting her privacy.

And then I hear that the metamour is not named out of an effort to diminish her. It is because I do not diminish her needs that I have altered my expectations and actions over the course of over a year and a half


I can't speak for anybody else here, but when I corrected the names in Ravenscoft's post and pointed out that you haven't given wife/meta a nickname, I was in no way implying you did this purposely to diminish her.

I also think you've got something wrong about the way THIS forum operates:

User-names/nicknames are simply an "identifier" so that other posters/forum members can better follow your story, and understand the trajectory of yours (or any OP's) thread.

The name chosen could be literally anything - from a single letter, to a colour, plant or personal attribute of the person concerned - and need not be one used on other forums or social media sites - in fact, it's usually better if the nickname is unique to Polyamory.com rather than one used elsewhere, for the reasons you yourself have specified, Sageflutterby. That way, you do not need permission and are in no danger of accidentally identifying her.

I don't understand why how frequently I have posted invalidates the progression of the relationship. There's no set timeline or milestone that is identifiable that I can see in polyamory. Emotions don't just go away.

My emotions specifically are hard for me to manage because they aren't logical and when I post, it's because I struggle with managing non-logical, non-black and white intangibles.

I appreciate the post, Kevin, but if putting a journal out of my emotions and posting, and hoping someone else who made it through tough times can lend some advice for my situation other than to indicate that we're all whining spineless people in a miserable relationship, then I'll just stop posting. And I'll be grateful that my partners are entirely different than some of the posters.

Frequency of posting doesn't invalidate anything - however, when the problems remain much the same over time, with little progress seemingly made, it calls into question whether any of the advice being offered is really being "heard", seriously considered or making any kind of impact on the way anyone in the situation chooses to operate.

In almost every case, the people on this forum offer constructive advice from their own perspective - and, as we're all people with differing values and life experiences - suggestions will tend to vary accordingly. You need not accept the advice of everyone who posts if you strenuously disagree. But what I can say is that posters (from what I can tell) are coming from a place of integrity and a genuine desire to help.

Many of us (you included, most likely) have had experience with real world friends in long-term but very troubled relationships, who come to us to cry on our shoulder on and may regularly ask for advice but who don't seem to ever make any headway. After initially showing sympathy and making practical suggestions to improve their situation, it can become frustrating when nothing ever seems to change over time.

We hear "I can't leave, because---" (a.) I LOVE him, b.) the children will be devastated c.) we share financial responsibilities d.) she's got health problems --- or any number of "good" reasons. Thing is, these reasons can drag on for literally years, with no improvement in the quality of the relationship, but with everyone becoming more and more defeated.

Those offering advice here, do so with integrity and - within the scope of our limited knowledge of your particular personal situation - speak from a place of honesty regarding what it is you need to do in order to improve your quality of life, both in the context of this relationship with Awpti and outside of it.

There is only so much we can say. If it's not to your taste, you are free ignore it and focus on those who ARE offering you palatable solutions - but be self-aware enough to realise that you may be cherry-picking only that advice you WANT to hear.

Since you say you often start an OP with the intention of "writing out" your thoughts in order to better understand what's going on in your life, and your emotions, at any given time... another alternative may be to simply post these entries in the "Blog" section.
 
Awpti has given me permission to name him.
TheCerpent has given me permission to name him.
I don't have permission to name the metamour and feel it would violate her privacy to identify her as her username includes identifiable information.

All of the names I use are traceable to our other social media. It's not about keeping the other person nameless. It's about respecting her privacy.

As Lunabunny said, it's actually a VERY BAD idea to put nicknames on here that can be traced to any account. I wasn't commenting on the fact that you didn't give her an "identifiable" nickname; I was just pointing out that you only refer to your OSO's wife as "his wife" or "metamor." I can understand why you wouldn't be giving her a nickname if you have given traceable nicknames to others in your life but that is, I reiterate, a bad practice.


Of course you can, as you see fit, continue to be treated badly. Maybe you will eventually get tired of this and end it, or your metamor will put the dreaded "veto" on you and that will be that. I am really not trying to be mean; I have kept myself in relationships where I believed the agony I constantly felt was proof that this is real love. It's not.

As Lunabunny stated, you seem to be "cherry-picking" advice, which is also your right. Feel free to take the technical steps to ignore my comments; I don't know how to do it, but I'm sure it's in the FAQ.

I do wish you the best.
 
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