New Poly & Expectations

Interrobang

New member
Hi,

My wife and I are new to being Polyamorous. This was her idea and she has plenty of good reasons to be poly. There are lots of things I like too. However, she's still figuring out what she wants out of being poly. She said it would take time for her to discover what she wants, but in the meantime anything goes. I just finally told her after nearly a year of dating that leaving me home alone wondering if she is coming home, where she is, who she's with is not cool anymore. I demanded text updates if plans change so I at least know where she is and if I should expect her to come home. I thought this was reasonable. She didn't think it was as reasonable as I did because it stifled spontanaeity, but she did agree, sorta. As of now that is the closest we've come to a discussion of expectations, boundaries, and rules. It's been a year of being poly and my wife still says she's figuring it out and can't agree to any mutual expectations or boundaries of any kind (safe sex being the exception. However, anonymous casual sex is still an option).

Yesterday a person my wife liked on OKCupid responded to her and suggested a double date. The other couple was very open about their rules and expectations and asked my wife what our expectations are. Well, we don't know. That other couple asking us what our expectations are precipitated a pretty heavy argument. FYI the other couple identifies as "not polyamorous".

Even though she's been dating and sleeping with people for awhile now whenever I mention defining our expectations and setting boundaries to protect comfort levels (mostly mine) she gives me the line that I'm just feeling patriarchal feelings of possession toward my woman; get over it. I don't know what to expect here, but I have a feeling that this isn't a male/female issue. I suspect that it is simply human nature to want to know what your partner's limits are and in what situations you would expect them to have sex with others. Right now her limits are "whatever feels right at the time". I feel like part of the reason we have been undefined for so long is because I still have yet to meet a partner I like in that way. Consequently, she has yet to experience any of the emotions I've been grappling with.

I've done a lot of soul searching and reconciling my own feelings over the last year of being poly. At this point you could tell me for anything, "this is just something you have to accept", and part of me would say, "welp, must be me then".

What's normal? Do many poly people go into this with an undefined relationship? Would a reasonable partner accept a partner who required that expectations be left undefined? At what point do you say "we need to define our expectations and set guidelines for being poly."?

:confused:
 
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You seem to be conflating boundaries with rules, which isn't uncommon. Rules are imposed on other people; boundaries are something you define for and impose on yourself.

You may have a boundary for yourself that you won't participate in a relationship unless you're kept up to date on your partner's plans. In order to help your partner not break your boundary you might discuss it with them and come to an arrangement about how they will agree to behave in order not to overstep your comfort zone (an agreement).

You might tell them "this is how you will act in order to avoid overstepping my comfort zone" (a rule).

You might discuss it with them or make a demand and find they are unwilling to change their behaviour. That doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them incompatible with the boundaries you have set for yourself. A boundary is a statement to yourself about how you'll react to a certain stimulus, not a magic wand you can use to prevent that stimulus from taking place.

Saying "you have to tell me when your plans change because that's my boundary" doesn't give your side of the argument any extra weight. You still need to negotiate for what you want and/or need.

All that said, I don't think that asking for a message to let you know she's safe when she's running late is at all unreasonable. This was all a long and rambling way to say that knowing your own boundaries is healthy, and that you get to define them for yourself rather than needing to sit down and discuss them with someone else.
 
There is no normal in relationships.

What works for me wouldn't work for someone else.

I do not tolerate being told what shape my relationships will take. Butch doesn't get to set rules upon my relationship with Murf. Murf doesn't get to set rules for my relationship with Butch. They don't get updates on what I am doing or with whom. I do give them both ideas when I will be home. That is just being a courteous partner.

My partners can set boundaries for themselves. For example Butch doesn't want Murf spending the night here. His house is his castle and vice versa.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I just finally told her after nearly a year of dating that leaving me home alone wondering if she is coming home, where she is, who she's with is not cool anymore. I demanded text updates if plans change so I at least know where she is and if I should expect her to come home. I thought this was reasonable.

Demanding things of your partner is not reasonable.

Asking if she is willing to text or call if her plans change so you do not worry? That's fair to ask. You are not a mind reader.

To me that's not even a poly thing. That's a basic roomie thing. Back in the day when I had roomies, we would leave notes on the fridge for when to expect us home. Today the kids and DH and I use texts. But basically, nobody wants to be worrying that someone from the house ran into problems or had an accident.

She didn't think it was as reasonable as I did because it stifled spontanaeity, but she did agree, sorta

She can still be spontaneous. All she has to do is text "Change in plans. Be home at X instead."

What kind of thing is this for you?

  • This is a deal breaker type hard limit. You choose not to poly with someone who does not text changes in plans.
  • This is a soft limit. You want a text for the first X weeks with a new person so you know she isn't out with a creeper, and after that you can be willing to let it go.
  • This is not a limit. This was a preference, but one you can live without. You can let it go and just expect her to be out all night without contact. Be pleasantly surprised if she does check in. Don't be surprised if she does not.

Even though she's been dating and sleeping with people for awhile now whenever I mention defining our expectations and setting boundaries to protect comfort levels (mostly mine) she gives me the line that I'm just feeling patriarchal feelings of possession toward my woman; get over it.

That's not kind. When you express what you need to feel more comfortable in polyshipping with her, she minimizes what you feel / puts you down. I think it would be more respectful to say "I hear what you are saying. But no. I am not willing to do that at this time."

Is this a common thing with her? Putting you down? Calling you names? :confused:

You don't need her to set your own boundaries. YOU do that job. Because the boundaries are for YOU to obey.

Asking if you can expect her to do X or not do Y? That you do need her for. Because you are not a mind reader and you actually have to ASK.

"Can I expect you to.....?"​

What expectations are you wanting to ask her about?

I don't know what to expect here, but I have a feeling that this isn't a male/female issue. I suspect that it is simply human nature to want to know what your partner's limits are and in what situations you would expect them to have sex with others. Right now her limits are "whatever feels right at the time".

She is telling you. If it were me talking to her? I would take it like this.

Me: What are your limits regarding sex?

Her: "My limits are whatever feels right at the time"

Me: Let me repeat that back in my own words to know I got it. Basically I can expect you to share sex with whoever you want, when you happen to feel like it. You will not share sex if you don't feel like it.

Her: Yes.

Me: Thank you for clarifying what I should expect.​

You are either ok with that. Or you are not and decide not to poly with her. Is it that you don't want to be in her network because there's too many people in it for your peace of mind and you prefer smaller networks? You are allowed to prefer what size networks you prefer.

In regards to sex share... what expectations are you wanting to ask about? You don't actually say.

I feel like part of the reason we have been undefined for so long is because I still have yet to meet a partner I like in that way. Consequently, she has yet to experience any of the emotions I've been grappling with.

Possibly. Or she's all "kid in a candy store" right now. Or she's just not very empathic/sympathetic in general. And even if you did have another partner, she still wouldn't be empathetic/sympathetic toward you.

What is her general character on that front? :confused:

I've done a lot of soul searching and reconciling my own feelings over the last year of being poly. At this point you could tell me for anything, "this is just something you have to accept", and part of me would say, "welp, must be me then".

Are you depressed? Resigned? Gotten used to just lumping it?

Because over here? I would be saying "Alright, that's your way of going in poly then. I accept that. But it is not mine. We are not a match."

Why would you keep staying in something that is not comfortable or compatible sounding for you? :confused:

What's normal? Do many poly people go into this with an undefined relationship?

There is no normal. People DIY their poly relationships. Some people like figuring it out as they go. Some people want at least a few rules/expectations/boundaries/whatever you call thems. Some people like a lot of them. Everyone is different.

Me? I don't have a lot, but I like stating my expectations up front. I want to know my partner's expectations. That's how I want to do poly.

You have to figure out how YOU want to do poly and what you want from a poly partner. What your expectations are. What your preferences are. What boundaries you want respected. You develop your personal standard.

Then you see if she meets the bar or not. If she does not meet your personal standard, you guys are not compatible. You can work together to change things so you become more compatible or you can let polyshipping together go.

Would a reasonable partner accept a partner who required that expectations be left undefined? At what point do you say "we need to define our expectations and set guidelines for being poly."?

Has nothing to do with "reasonableness." It has to do with preferences.

Could a person accept a partner who required that expectations be left undefined? Sure. If they dig that too? They can agree to that and accept dating this partner.

Though I've had them when I was younger? At this point in my life I could not do a "no expectations" thing.

You sound like you have already tried it for a year and come to find you don't like this way of going. I think for you, the time is now.

You could say "I have tried for a year with things undefined. I don't feel comfortable like that. For me to continue in this more comfortably, I need to talk about expectations. I cannot keep polyshipping here without it. I don't want to have so many you feel uncomfortable in this. But I don't feel comfortable with none at all. We need to find a number we both can deal with. Could you be willing to talk and work something out? "

If she's not willing, then you accept your need for some expectations are not going to be met here and you probably are best bowing out of this polyship. Why keep participating in something that doe snot feel good to you? That is not taking good care of you.

Be more firm about obeying your boundaries. Don't get yourself into things you do not care for.

Maybe going through some of these help you clarify what you would like in your polyships.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

Are you able to articulate your boundaries? Boundaries define what you will and will not put up with. With consequences YOU can do. They are not for others to respect. They are for YOU to respect so you can stay safe.

In this case the boundary might be expressed as

I can only participate in polyships where there are some clear expectations. I don't like "anything goes" or "up in the air." (Boundary. The line you do not cross.)

If I find myself in one of those, and I cannot work something out with this person? Then I have to bow out. (Consequence YOU can do.)​

Galagirl
 
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It's not really any of your business who she is with and where they are. It is reasonable to request (not demand) that she at least text if she is not getting home around the time she said. There shouldn't be repercussions for staying out later.

It seems to me you are getting a definition. She says anything goes, whatever she feels like. What are you looking for exactly?
 
Well, it's all negotiation in relationships, whether anyone believes it or not.

Ultimately, every person has the final option of getting up and walking away from the deal. No trade. A bargain can not be struck.

If you do not feel that you have that ultimate option, you must ask yourself, WHY?

I stayed in an unhappy marriage for a long time. I recognized why I would not walk away from the bad deal. I took the bad deal, and lived with it, but I recognized "I am sticking with the bad deal because of the kids. When the kids are grown, I will reevaluate. If the deal is still bad, I will walk away." I did not make that goal. But that doesn't matter.

Why are you sticking with a bad deal? And what would have to change, for it to be a good deal, or for your willingness to stick with the bad deal, to flip to a willingness to walk away from the table? Think about that. Do you need to raise money to be independent? Do you need to be convinced that other women would be willing to love you, that this woman is not the only fish in your sea? What would it take?

You ever see Pawn Stars?

You: "Hi"
Her: "Hi! What have ya brought me today?"
You: "It's a Thing!"
Her: "That is a fine Thing. How much were you hoping to get for it?"
You: "I won't take less than $100!"
Her: "Honestly? I'll give you $5. That's my final offer."
You now: "....ohh kay." :( *sigh*

Now, if you were willing to walk away and say, "Bad deal! I'm taking my Thing and leaving!" then maybe you might not get the $100, but you might get $50. Just taking it though, with no "walk away" option, means you have forfeited the right to negotiate, you're just going to take whatever she will give you.

And her throwing the whole "patriarchy" thing around...look, others have said it and they're right...making demands is not only unreasonable, it doesn't work. Especially if you're not even willing to back up your boundaries with a "leave the table" option. But there is a difference between being a man who respects his feminist gal and her ownership of herself, and being a doormat who does not represent himself and his own needs in the relationship.

Negotiate, with respect for yourself and for her. And get agreements, not capitulations, and make them specific. Good luck!
 
Hi Interrobang,

There's such a thing as relationship anarchy, and some people do not operate under any rules. Other people do operate under some rules. There is no wrong or right here, there is just compatible and incompatible. I get the feeling you and your wife are incompatible. You can discuss that with her, see if she is willing to operate under some rules, but if not, you need to make some hard decisions about whether you are willing to accept what she offers. If your answer is no, then you need to be willing to break up with her. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's an outcome you need to consider. Otherwise you and her become stuck in a loveless and/or unhappy marriage. You can opt for that outcome of course. But I don't recommend it.

It's certainly not unreasonable for you to want some rules, particularly rules about her letting you know when she's going to get home. But something can be reasonable, and still not be something she's willing to do. So have some conversations with her, and find out where you stand.

I hope you can work something out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I think I am experiencing the "patriarchal" attitude with my husband as well. He acts more like my father than my husband and when I ask why he is trying to set limitations on my relationship with my other partner, he responds that he has been married to me for 27 years. Like that gives him a right to control me! I feel like his property sometimes. :(
 
For the first few dates with someone new, I think it is a matter of personal safety for your wife to let you know where she is and with whom. You should have the person's name and some kind of contact info (in case of the worst happening, to give to police), as well as where they are going on the date (hopefully somewhere public) and what approximate time she'll be home. That is not unreasonable. However, once she's established a relationship with someone who is a known entity, monitoring her becomes authoritarian and overrkill.
 
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