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  #21  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:13 PM
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SlowPoly SlowPoly is offline
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You’ve got a range of answers to chew on here. Mine is that monogamy is so culturally propped up that it would be hard to tell if anyone is inherently of a monogamous orientation. So many people defy the overwhelming pressure to be monogamous, that we must conclude nonmonogamy (or possibly a more general defiant nonconformity) is a strong drive.


But I want to ask you why you tossed this out before asking your topic question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapinaTricycle View Post
Before even asking about the concept of consensuality, . . .
What do you mean by “consensuality”? Are you asserting that the “orientation or preference” question is more important or more fundamental than matters of consent? Was this meaningless word clutter, or a space holder for another topic you plan?
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  #22  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity0 View Post
Yeah, so that makes me a womanizer in some people's eyes. I don't think you can speak for men at all.
I think your male privilege is coloring your views here.
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity0 View Post
I doubt if it is as intense for most poly people. I certainly feel no pressure to remain hidden as I would if I was gay.
When you say "most poly people," you speak as if being male is the default.

Surely, it is considered "worse," in our hetero-normative, mono-normative patriarchal culture, for a man to be seen as gay than for a man to be seen as non-monogamous. Men are even encouraged to be non-mono, it's considered normal for a man to spread his seed, his "oats," and bang as many women as he can, whether he is partnered, married or not.

But being gay is more difficult for men than for women (I say, as a bisexual woman who is living with her female partner, and no males).

The Bible, our Western standard of patriarchal cultural expectations, has nearly nothing to say about FF romantic/sexual couplings. But MM relationships are discouraged. Polygyny (MFFF) is expected and lauded.
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleSun View Post
I think your male privilege is coloring your views here.
Yes, pretty obviously.
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  #25  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:29 AM
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Oh good lord. First off I usually speak only for myself, so yes, that is a white, mostly straight male view. Secondly, I was speaking about the pressures society places on everyone. I have yet to hear of a case where a poly person was beaten because they were poly. I have yet to hear of a poly person being dragged behind a pickup truck. Or the use of "poly" as a slur...or anything that happens to lgbtq+ people.

Maybe if I lived in a little religious-centric community I would feel some pressure to conform to monogamy. As it is, I am a non-conformist long haired guy who has very little of this privilege you think we all have.

Now, instead of bashing a person from a community different than yours, why not add to the discussion by stating how it is in your community.
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  #26  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:24 AM
JapinaTricycle JapinaTricycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowPoly View Post
What do you mean by “consensuality”? Are you asserting that the “orientation or preference” question is more important or more fundamental than matters of consent?
I was;

The same way I wouldn't tell a gay person: "You're gay only if you are in a gay relationship";

It doesn't make sense, nor is it fair to assume;

So at first, I believed poly people didn't need to be in a poly relationship to be considered poly (even if they feel forced into a monogamous relationship or cheat).

I still kind of do, but realize there is more than one type of poly people, now.

1:Core poly,
2:Poly by choice.

Core poly are unhappy in a mono relationship. (I want to name those people polycorn. Ex: "I'm a polycorn who isn't in a polyamorous relationship at the moment.")
Poly by choice can be happy in a mono relationship, but adapted their lifestyle with open views. Those people are generally older, sociable and experienced, and had only mostly positive relationships in their lifetime.

Just my guessing based on some observations.

Last edited by JapinaTricycle; 06-07-2018 at 07:30 AM.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:31 AM
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I really dislike the "poly as orientation" meme, which seems to draw far too much on paralleling polyamory to... well, anything not strictly heterosexual.

The major difference is that anyone of a "nonmonogamous" bent has long at least some outlets -- for sex, companionship, affection -- that while not strictly acceptable have been part of what I call Monogamism. Swinging, affairs, drunken passes at neighborhood cocktail parties, & so on. (When in doubt, blame alcohol. )

Homosexuality has had no such "pressure relief" activities. Up through the '70s (at best), getting caught out could lead to arrest, police beatings, mob attacks, public humiliation, blackmail, loss of jobs & housing & parental rights. Heroin pushers got more respect.

Again: polyamory is a choice -- period.

(And often a choice made by people who have no idea what they're talking about, when they actually MEAN "nonmonogamy." They can demand all the consideration for their assumed "polyness," without the least need to do the heavy lifting, & absolute freedom to bounce back & forth at whim -- something IME vanishingly few gayfolk have done.)
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  #28  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
I really dislike the "poly as orientation" meme, which seems to draw far too much on paralleling polyamory to... well, anything not strictly heterosexual.

The major difference is that anyone of a "nonmonogamous" bent has long at least some outlets -- for sex, companionship, affection -- that while not strictly acceptable have been part of what I call Monogamism. Swinging, affairs, drunken passes at neighborhood cocktail parties, & so on. (When in doubt, blame alcohol. )

Homosexuality has had no such "pressure relief" activities. Up through the '70s (at best), getting caught out could lead to arrest, police beatings, mob attacks, public humiliation, blackmail, loss of jobs & housing & parental rights. Heroin pushers got more respect.

Again: polyamory is a choice -- period.

(And often a choice made by people who have no idea what they're talking about, when they actually MEAN "nonmonogamy." They can demand all the consideration for their assumed "polyness," without the least need to do the heavy lifting, & absolute freedom to bounce back & forth at whim -- something IME vanishingly few gayfolk have done.)
It is not a choice for me. You don't get to define that for other people.
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  #29  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinsanity0 View Post
Oh good lord. First off I usually speak only for myself, so yes, that is a white, mostly straight male view. Secondly, I was speaking about the pressures society places on everyone. I have yet to hear of a case where a poly person was beaten because they were poly. I have yet to hear of a poly person being dragged behind a pickup truck. Or the use of "poly" as a slur...or anything that happens to lgbtq+ people.

Maybe if I lived in a little religious-centric community I would feel some pressure to conform to monogamy. As it is, I am a non-conformist long haired guy who has very little of this privilege you think we all have.

Now, instead of bashing a person from a community different than yours, why not add to the discussion by stating how it is in your community.

when we say "privilege," we're talking about institutional, SYSTEMIC oppression. If you are white, male, straight, or a member of ANY majority group, you have privilege that the rest of us who are members of oppressed minorities do not have. For instance, as a white guy, you are a lot less likely to be shot by police, or have the police called on you for no reason. As a straight person, nobody is going to fire you or evict you or deny you basic public services if they find out who you are married to if you live in a state with no non-discrimination protections for LGBTQ+ people. Nobody is saying your life is easy. It's just a viewpoint that is blind to the oppression the rest of us face, that's all.
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  #30  
Old 06-07-2018, 09:06 AM
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In my experience, the choice I've always made is to be monogamous.
Now, I've undone that choice and can be authentically me.
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