Advice for a newbie

bsviking

New member
Just recently opened up my marriage and I need some advice. My wife has repeatedly told me over the course of our relationship that she doesn't think monogamy is natural and would not be jealous of me sleeping with someone else. She has also said over the last few years that she has struggled not cheating on me. Well over the last year I've discovered she hasn't been faithful. She's had multiple other partners without telling me. She started pulling away from me 3 months ago saying she's confused and not sure what she wants. Finally about a month ago, after saying we should date others 2 weeks into a live in separation, she opened up and told me all about losing her battles and sleeping with others. I opened up too and said, while I hadn't slept with anyone, I've been close to it and it didn't change the way I felt towards her. I realized that I didn't have a problem with her being with other men physically. It was the deception I had problems with. We decided to try being open. One of the rules I said we needed to follow was to break off being with someone if we started having feelings towards them. She said that indeed there was someone special but it was only friendship. Nothing more. Turns our, after spending the majority of nights at his house over the course of 2 weeks she went out with friends, got really drunk and when she couldn't get ahold of him she had a one night stand with someone else. The next day I drove her to the airport because she had to fly out for a weeks worth of training. She told me that yes he meant a lot to her. She just realized that she had deeper feelings for him. And couldn't believe she had let it get so far. We texted all day and I felt like she was going to end it. The next day when I realized they were still in contact I told her she needed to end it or she had to move out. It was either him or me. She got upset over an ultimatum stating that it only made her want to choose him out of rebellion. She said that while she was attracted to him and didn't want to leave him she didn't want to leave me or our children. She said she needed him for an escape. That it's not going to last and asked me to be patient and trust her not to fall deeper for him. I agreed, but now I'm concerned that I opened up our marriage at the wrong time. She said on Sunday after returning from a night at his house that's she's happy because she can have her cake and eat it too. Is this bad? Did I just allow her to form a deeper relationship with him guilt free? I've told her while I'm being patient I still don't approve, but I'll trust her. Any advice?
 
Just recently opened up my marriage and I need some advice. My wife has repeatedly told me over the course of our relationship that she doesn't think monogamy is natural and would not be jealous of me sleeping with someone else. She has also said over the last few years that she has struggled not cheating on me. Well over the last year I've discovered she hasn't been faithful. She's had multiple other partners without telling me. She started pulling away from me 3 months ago saying she's confused and not sure what she wants.

I think you've made a bad rule, by the way. It's the 'pulling away' that should be the rule, not the 'feelings towards others'.

Finally about a month ago, after saying we should date others 2 weeks into a live in separation, she opened up and told me all about losing her battles and sleeping with others. I opened up too and said, while I hadn't slept with anyone, I've been close to it and it didn't change the way I felt towards her. I realized that I didn't have a problem with her being with other men physically. It was the deception I had problems with. We decided to try being open. One of the rules I said we needed to follow was to break off being with someone if we started having feelings towards them. She said that indeed there was someone special but it was only friendship. Nothing more. Turns our, after spending the majority of nights at his house over the course of 2 weeks she went out with friends, got really drunk and when she couldn't get ahold of him she had a one night stand with someone else. The next day I drove her to the airport because she had to fly out for a weeks worth of training. She told me that yes he meant a lot to her. She just realized that she had deeper feelings for him. And couldn't believe she had let it get so far. We texted all day and I felt like she was going to end it. The next day when I realized they were still in contact I told her she needed to end it or she had to move out. It was either him or me. She got upset over an ultimatum stating that it only made her want to choose him out of rebellion. She said that while she was attracted to him and didn't want to leave him she didn't want to leave me or our children. She said she needed him for an escape. That it's not going to last and asked me to be patient and trust her not to fall deeper for him. I agreed, but now I'm concerned that I opened up our marriage at the wrong time. She said on Sunday after returning from a night at his house that's she's happy because she can have her cake and eat it too. Is this bad? Did I just allow her to form a deeper relationship with him guilt free? I've told her while I'm being patient I still don't approve, but I'll trust her. Any advice?

It sounds like you have issues to resolve, specifically cheating, lying, trust, and commitment. Those aren't mono problems that go away in poly relationships. The best I can suggest is that you both go in for counseling together to work on these issues because it is in your, and your children's best interests, to do so.

I'm new to this too, but don't have some of those problems to deal with. Having said that:
1) People fall in love. Asking them not to is foolish. Instead you have to ask that she commit to staying in love with you.
2) Cheating isn't fair, isn't ethical, isn't right. If she can cheat on you, she can cheat on anyone else she falls in love with, and that's not fair to them either.
3) She has to be responsible for her own behavior. If she can't trust herself to act ethically and responsibly, she has to make sure she isn't in the situation in the first place. This isn't about you trusting her, it's about her acting responsibly to everyone who she loves and who love her
4) You shouldn't trust her to change, you have to trust her to be who she is. No one can tell how they will change, they can only tell how they are.
5) If there are any rules that need to be set (not boundaries, but rules), they have to be ironclad; safety, for one, especially for your children, but also for disease and pregnancy!
6) Boundaries aren't rules, but they are close. The thing is, I think, you can't set boundaries for her, she has to set the ones she can keep, while you set the ones you can keep, and you then can agree to them (or not!)

That's all in theory at least since I'm still working this out with my own wife. So an example of what we have worked out:
1) She fell in love with me, first. She fell in love with D, who isn't willing to reciprocate. She has agreed that she wants to be with me for the rest of her life, and I with her, and just leave the door open for D to join us at a later date. This isn't about primary/secondary, this is just the agreement we made.
2) We are working on this; she loses track of time when she drinks and in order to maintain trust she has promised not to get drunk and will keep to her promises of how long she will be out. She has also agreed that I am not a baby sitter so she can have dates because that is unfair to me.
3) This is where she will not make false requests for time (ask for 3 hours, stay out 4) or get drunk (because then she has to crash outside the home while I am watching our kids, especially since she has morning drop off duty)
4) She didn't expect to be poly, so this was never something we had discussed prior to this year. However, she can make choices and commitments. Something else we have decided is that it makes no sense for her to spend more time dating someone else than dating me since she has, and continues to affirm, her commitment to me.
5) Dates cannot be used to watch our children. Protection is to be used for penetration.
6) She has to be comfortable with someone, and won't be pressured into something. She gets to choose who she likes, and I get to choose if I like them as well. I have no veto, per se, but I do get to tell her if someone is irritating or whatever. Finally, I have the right to tell her she is making a bad choice, not because I'm jealous but because I legitimately care for her, and that was agreed because I think I've been very consistent about caring for her our whole marriage.
 
This is a Polyamory message board. You do realize that poly is loving more than one person not just sex.
 
This is a Polyamory message board. You do realize that poly is loving more than one person not just sex.

I'm not sure I understand why you bring this up?

He loves her, she loves him, and, this is the important part, they've made a rule to not love other people, which is where the transition to poly would occur.

If they can't accept loving other people then I agree this really isn't the right place to be, for him or her.
 
My point is that if he cannot accept her falling in love or deeply attached to another man then this would not be the place to seek advice. A swingers board or a message board about NSA sex would be more appropriate. This message board is in support of people having loving relationships with more than one partner.

The OP has a problem with his wife falling emotionally for another man.
 
Dagferi. You're right. This is a polyamory board. Maybe it isn't the right place, but I couldn't find a better place to start.

Spock. That is the point. She's every bit as bothered by her feelings toward him as I am. She was freaked out by the fact that she cheated on both of us with the one night stand. She said afterwards she doesn't want to sleep around. She just wants to be with both of us. I'm thinking we're probably in different places in terms of an open marriage.
 
Why are you afraid of her falling emotionally for another man?

Why is that more threatening than having sex with multiple men with no strings attached?
 
Dagferi. You're right. This is a polyamory board. Maybe it isn't the right place, but I couldn't find a better place to start.

Spock. That is the point. She's every bit as bothered by her feelings toward him as I am. She was freaked out by the fact that she cheated on both of us with the one night stand. She said afterwards she doesn't want to sleep around. She just wants to be with both of us. I'm thinking we're probably in different places in terms of an open marriage.

So let me try again, since the wall of text might have been too dense.

She is in love with two men. That's perfectly acceptable, given we are in a poly forum. What's the problem?
 
It is not acceptable to bsviking.
 
I'm trying to encourage him to be accepting. Barring that, he needs to have a realistic expectation as to why he is going to fail :)
 
So let me try again, since the wall of text might have been too dense.

She is in love with two men. That's perfectly acceptable, given we are in a poly forum. What's the problem?

There's nothing wrong with that if it's acceptable to all involved. The thing is is she feels like she screwed up and got too close and fell for him. I feel threatened by it because right now she has been devoting the majority of her love and attention to him. She repeatedly says she doesn't want a boyfriend. Just a friend with benefits. But now it's turning into more and I think it's scaring her.
 
There's nothing wrong with that if it's acceptable to all involved.
So this goes back to my wall of text.

The thing is is she feels like she screwed up and got too close and fell for him.

She didn't screw up by falling for him. If she screwed up it's because she is failing to devote enough attention and love to you.

I feel threatened by it because right now she has been devoting the majority of her love and attention to him.

Then ask her to devote more love and attention to you.

She repeatedly says she doesn't want a boyfriend. Just a friend with benefits. But now it's turning into more and I think it's scaring her.

If she can't handle falling in love, she shouldn't have a FWB. If she can handle falling in love, then she needs to make sure she behaves responsibly and dedicate sufficient love and attention to your relationship to her satisfaction. If that isn't enough for you, you have to ask for more (which she might not be able to give!). If she cannot give you enough no matter how much you ask, you need to figure out why you are asking for more than she can give.

I bring this up because you brought up her lover as an escape; escape from you?
 
Feelings happen they do not come with a switch or control.

How you handle said feelings is the issue.
 
I don't find the expectation that one not fall in love - especially with partner which whom they are regularly seeing - realistic. Humans can control behavior, but not emotions. For example, when I walk into restaurant and smell (insert whatever your favorite food is here), I want it. It doesn't matter if it is not good for me - too many empty calories - I still desire it. I can choose not to order it - control my behavior - but I have little choice in the wanting.

Love is much the same way. Your wife could choose not act on her feelings, but she cannot prevent their existence.

Asking her to end it with the other man, doesn't erase the love that already exists. You can pretend that it does, but it does not.
 
I'm sorry you guys are struggling. I'll be honest though -- you two have a LOT of layers there. It is overwhelming to read. I cannot imagine what it is like to LIVE. :(

I could be wrong. But here's how it sounds to me:


STAGE 1 : You guys set expectations that you could not keep. (ex: monogamoous, closed marriage). Instead of renegotiating and learning to set realistic boundaries for yourselves, you went off into affairs. Yours sounded emotional maybe, and hers became sexual affairs. Lies and/or lies of omission all around.

STAGE 2: You had a problem with forthright disclosure which led to deception. Did NOT seem to make space for learning this skill. Or for sharing authentic feelings and authentic communication with each other along the way to prevent future deception or regain trust/heal.

Instead you guys made room for the thing being lied about (sex outside the marriage) only. You created a boundary that could block authentic communication in future by agreeing to (polysexual sharing sex with others, but not polyamorous sharing love with others.)

  • Because what if feelings DO develop? The expectation is for her to dump a beloved? How's that wonderful for her or BF?
  • The other choice is to have the feelings but withold the information from the other beloved? How's THAT wonderful for her or husband(you)?

The unrealistic boundary helps to create an environment where deception is very tempting your wife -- which if she keeps silent, could partially be ok/stink for her. But could be ok for you and BF since you are both in ignorant bliss. But she gets to be with both. Until she pops and it comes out. UGH for all then.

NO solution is planned for ALL people to be healthy and supported. Either together or apart here. Things are set in place so that it sucks for for 1, 2, or 3 people instead to varying degrees.

STAGE 3: So now you come to find that sharing sex with others CAN and does lead to deeper feelings sometimes. It actually did come out. Ugh for all! After some run around, you come to new agreement -- she can see the BF on the expectation that she dump him eventually. (Does he know that condition? He's happy about that? I suspect he doesn't know. MORE lies of omission? )

How is this boundary different than before? It isn't. She is still expected to dump him when "too many feelings" happen -- the only thing is the "feeling line" got move over a bit from "feelings at all" to "deeper feelings."

In short, a new snooze tag. Not actual resolution here. You guys STILL struggle with the issues of (forthright disclosure to avoid deception) and (boundary setting that works for all.) Same as way back in Stage 1! Until you all learn to solve those things, you will keep on merry-go-rounding on that even if all break up.​

You do not seem firm of purpose at this point in time and not clear on desired outcome. What outcome ARE you hoping for? It's hard to give any advice to help you arrive there if you cannot articulate where it is you want to be. :(

You sound like you have been though cheating affair weirdness and may not have fully healed. You also sound like some polyhell in there.

I doubt you want to "just trust her" to keep her word when she has failed to do so before. And to trust her to keep using her BF until she's used him up and dumps him in the end... .whenever "the end" may be? This is treating him with respect and kindness how? You are married to a user person? How's that bode for YOU? Is she going to use you until YOU are used up too?

Of course you are worried! :(

She says she needs him to "escape." Have you guys even talked about what she's trying to escape FROM?

You could decide what you want here. For sure STOP participating in weird, dude. Call time out! So you all can GET firm of purpose. If you need more information to get firm of purpose? Start having the conversations you need to be having with yourself, wife and BF!

Is she trustworthy? Do you still want to be married to her? What if she DOES NOT want to break up with him? You could decide if you are in or out.

  • You are in this polyship. You are married to her, she's the hinge, and you accept that this BF could be around long haul. So you choose to work on forgiveness and trustbuilding with each person in the polyship -- yourself, the wife, and the BF. All three co-create the new way of going and delineate the expectations of behavior from each player so that ALL the players needs can be met and all players can be treated with respect, value, and dignity. You agree on how to break up should the polyshipping experiment have to end at a later date. So you choose to do the work required and hold up your end of the agreement and expect them each to hold up theirs. You all hold each other accountable and intentionally grow the intrapersonal and interpersonal skills required to polyship well.
  • You are NOT in this polyship. You choose to continue with the separation and steps to divorce.
    • Because you don't want to deal in this any more and you wish to be free of uncertainty.
    • Or because the players here are willing but not actually ABLE to polyship not wonky and it's best to accept that the skills will not be grown here.

    You choose to leave in a way that is self-respecting, dignified, and helps preserve your self worth. You stop signing up for new wacky.


Could GET firm of purpose and could align your behavior accordingly.


How about instead of asking her to choose, you ask YOU to choose what you want to be doing with yourself at this time? And you state where you are at with this to both wife and her BF? In or out? And get their "in or out" to see what lines up and what does not?

Hard to FEEL, maybe... but pretty clear on what to DO. The rest is just details in the plan toward doing it.

That is my suggestion to you. Focus on getting firm of purpose here -- and if you need a counselor to help you sort your feelings and thoughts and weight the pros/cons -- please do so. You are under heavy load.

Again... I'm sorry you deal in this. But it's up to you to restore order to your universe. Hang in there!:eek:

Galagirl
 
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So this goes back to my wall of text.

She didn't screw up by falling for him. If she screwed up it's because she is failing to devote enough attention and love to you.

Then ask her to devote more love and attention to you.

If she can't handle falling in love, she shouldn't have a FWB. If she can handle falling in love, then she needs to make sure she behaves responsibly and dedicate sufficient love and attention to your relationship to her satisfaction. If that isn't enough for you, you have to ask for more (which she might not be able to give!). If she cannot give you enough no matter how much you ask, you need to figure out why you are asking for more than she can give.

I bring this up because you brought up her lover as an escape; escape from you?

^^ +1 to all of this.

Basically, you and your wife need to talk, face to face, and get some things straightened out. You said that you were threatened and that she was freaked out. But big picture, are YOU okay with her loving another and is SHE okay loving another? If you are both okay with that setup (big picture/conceptually), what will you need from her in order to make sure you dont feel threatened by that other relationship. What will she need to not be so freaked out (if anything)?

Communicate those needs to each other and then you will know where you are and hopefully have an idea about where to go.
 
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