Veto Arrangements - Merged Threads, General Discussion

This didn't happen to me, it happened to Mercury. My bf and I are stronger than ever! He actually has assured me quite adamantly that, after 2 years together, I am too important to him to be veto'd. :D

But, I am with you on one thing, if this thing with him does end at some point for whatever reason, and I were to encounter this situation again, I, too, would probably say No, thank you. I don't want to be at the mercy of any Primary who changed their mind. :D

Oh, I knew who was vetoed. I probably just quoted something of yours to illustrate or respond to regarding vetos in general. I'm glad things are going well for you.
 
Just a little before we planned to meet for a first date (I still wasn't that into it but was willing to meet for a first date) I happened to find out from just randomly looking at the Facebook page of a casual classmate of mine (not a good friend) that he was in an open relationship with her. He/she were in a few pictures together.

I confronted him about it on the phone: "Are you in an open relationship?"

He said yes, and that he was planning to tell me on the first date. I didn't want to get involved (I wasn't judgmental of them; I just said "Well, I understand that y'all are in an open relationship, but seeing as how i know her, I think I'll pass." -- but then he talked me into meeting him.

See, this would have bugged me to begin with. I would have felt there was less than entirely upfront honesty.

I don't know how well he could have pulled off "equal" -- I know that was his and their intent. But that's all easier said than done.

I think for some women, they want to be the Chief and you to be the Indian, even if just subtly.

I can't have that.

And you shouldn't have to. And the thing is, I see a few people here who appear to be pulling off the equal fairly well, but when I look at my situation, no, I will never be 'equal' to his wife, and really, I don't think anyone should be equal to his wife. They have a long history together. She has supported him through many things including financially supporting him while he worked his way up the career ladder. Now that she has some physical limitations on continuing her career full time, he largely supports her financially. I would never want to step in the middle of that. If somehow she and I both 'needed' him (emergency surgery scheduled for the same day, emotional crisis, house burned down, I don't know...), it would be morally right for him to be with her.

That doesn't in any way change my situation.
 
Thoughts?

I think it sucks.

That said, they can set up their relationship in any fashion they choose and nobody can gainsay it. I don't care for veto arrangements, myself, yet recognize that many folks do.

It really sucks to be on the receiving end of that sort of things, though there's nothing to be done about it other than walking on.
 
I'm sorry you are hurting. :hug:

I can't really say anything more. Veto stuff... nrgh.

People always thought I was nuts when I'd ask on first dates how the exes were like and how the person likes to break up. But I always wanted to know!

Then I knew if it was destined for a break up how it would/could go down and if I wanted to even sign up for that.

I'd be unwilling to poly with a couple that really didn't have it together.

But as you say -- this is about "No... don't want to go there again and rekindle."

And if she's all blah, even if he's all yay, she could make your life hell if you DID date so I guess even if it feels yucky I rather get the chop EARLY rather than later and hear "No... don't want to go there again."

GalaGirl
 
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Ugh, your situation sucks.

I dated a guy for four months. We had known each other for years prior to me asking his wife if I could borrow him for a night or two. They have an open marriage and I didn't want anything more than some mild companionship having been through hell in a relationship about a year earlier.

Well, it turns out that we were really good together in that way where he all of a sudden was saying things like, "If I had met you first...not that I'd want something bad to happen to my wife...."

It didn't take long for the wifey - who usually was away with anyone but him more than she was ever home - to pick up on this and start reclaiming him. I begged and pleaded for the three of us to sit down and negotiate some sort of peace. I wasn't looking to steal him away from her or his other girlfriend, but rather discuss issues and work through some of the more difficult spots.

That's totally what was happening between me and my guy. He was falling for me. He said as much. He was having a great time with me and expressing such extreme attraction and so many proclamations of "I can see us really lasting and becoming something..." He told me (even just within 4 weeks) that he could see me living with him (she and he do not live together; they are not married).

But I think she caught on to it being very much a match between me and him. And that caught her off guard. I actually had coffee with her one time during the time I was seeing him. We talked about some basic things, and though she was very mature in words, her facial expressions were of fear and jealousy. She looked even like she was about to cry a few times. I also said to her, very straight-forwardly: "Are you sure you want this? Because I know the way these things work. You think you don't want someone all to yourself, but then as soon as you see them with someone else, happy, you start to want them more. I've seen it happen in various contexts, not just poly..." (And I have).

And though, at the time, she behaved herself to the extent that she didn't demand that he and I split, she did do the whole "reclaiming" him in the time he and I were apart and when I came back.

I mentioned in my other post that he had "single" on his OkCupid when I met him (with the intent to tell dates about his open relationship status on the first date). But I have noticed that now his and her profiles are completely different. They say "in an open relationship with my girlfriend. We're both looking to date other people casually, but it could become long term if you're willing to be a part of our open relationship."

In other words, after me, she apparently developed a greater sense of "coveting" him, and their profiles reflect that.

I think, by all means, that I was a severe threat to their relationship. She and I are pretty equal in tons of ways. Same education level, same profession, same interests and hobbies (we were in grad school together in the same field; it only makes sense we're the same "type"). I was real competition to her somehow, and that didn't sit well with her. Now she's got him on a very short leash (shorter than ever before) and won't let me have any part of him.

So...I "get" what happened. I still just think it's lame, though, because being poly means letting your partner love someone else. To me, that's something you have to open yourself up to. You can't implicitly stipulate that your partner can love someone else as long as he/she (the partner) doesn't love that someone else too too much. I mean...silly.

I was willing to be with him even though he had her (and that would be a challenge for me) -- why couldn't she do the same? And I'm not even the one who calls myself "biologically poly" (as she does). Why is it that a mono is willing to be poly but a poly is not wiling to be poly?
 
I mentioned in my other post that he had "single" on his OkCupid when I met him (with the intent to tell dates about his open relationship status on the first date). But I have noticed that now his and her profiles are completely different. They say "in an open relationship with my girlfriend. We're both looking to date other people casually, but it could become long term if you're willing to be a part of our open relationship."

In other words, after me, she apparently developed a greater sense of "coveting" him, and their profiles reflect that.

See to me, I think it's more honest to say upfront that he's in an open relationship. He isn't single. I'd be quite unhappy trading e-mails, expecting a truly single guy, going to meet him, and finding out he actually has a girlfriend. He may be 'available,' but is not 'single.'
 
I mentioned in my other post that he had "single" on his OkCupid when I met him (with the intent to tell dates about his open relationship status on the first date). But I have noticed that now his and her profiles are completely different. They say "in an open relationship with my girlfriend. We're both looking to date other people casually, but it could become long term if you're willing to be a part of our open relationship

That's more honest from the get go at least. Then if a person were to think about dating him they know the situation better than "single" would demarcate.

They are open and looking to date and hoping for people who fit into their tribe/network whatevers.

Sounds like both you and they learned something from the experience.

I confronted him about it on the phone: "Are you in an open relationship?"

He said yes, and that he was planning to tell me on the first date. I didn't want to get involved (I wasn't judgmental of them; I just said "Well, I understand that y'all are in an open relationship, but seeing as how i know her, I think I'll pass." -- but then he talked me into meeting him.

You listen to your gut more.

They get it out there earlier rather than announcing while actually on the first date.

It's like a wasted first date if the person doesn't want ANYTHING to do with open things.

GalaGirl
 
I also am "anti veto".

There are a few people in the world that, if a lover of mine chooses to date, would cause me to end the relationship with said lover. But they're pretty extreme cases, involving people who have committed abuses against me or my family or children. I feel that someone who chooses to date those abusers is experiencing a lapse of judgement significant enough to be dangerous to me.

But there's an enormous difference between "You can't date him/her! Waa!" and. "I can't have that person that close to my life. Date them if you choose, and that's okay, but I need to remove myself from this situation." One of those statements seeks to control another person's autonomy. The other is practicing my own autonomy. Though the end result may in fact be that my lover chooses not to involve him/herself with the person because they want to keep their relationship with me intact, it is not because I am forcing their hand. The end result might be that I leave the lover instead, and while that would suck, I couldn't live with myself if I were to be so controlling.

I also won't date someone who requires some kind of veto rights. That is a complete deal breaker for me, I think.

Last point. While I do feel that it is "wrong" for the girlfriend to have vetoed you, the only person you can blame for your ex-slash-potential-boyfriend's actions and choices is, actually, him. And only him, really. He accepts a veto condition in his relationship. That's his prerogative. Don't villainize her more than him; neither are without responsibility here. I can sympathize with the desire to condemn her because you don't want to be angry at him, but he is entirely responsible for his choices. And that sucks pretty bad.

Sorry you're going through this.... take good care of yourself while you're healing from this hurt.
 
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And you shouldn't have to. And the thing is, I see a few people here who appear to be pulling off the equal fairly well, but when I look at my situation, no, I will never be 'equal' to his wife, and really, I don't think anyone should be equal to his wife. They have a long history together. She has supported him through many things including financially supporting him while he worked his way up the career ladder. Now that she has some physical limitations on continuing her career full time, he largely supports her financially. I would never want to step in the middle of that. If somehow she and I both 'needed' him (emergency surgery scheduled for the same day, emotional crisis, house burned down, I don't know...), it would be morally right for him to be with her.

It's very respectful of you to have that stance - that his wife is rightfully his priority. To some extent, I felt that in my situation as well, but only a little. The poly couple in my situation had circumstances very different from from a life time (or even a decade or so) of being a "team." They met in March of 2010. Heck, *I've* known her for longer than he has (although...as I mentioned, I only knew her as a distant classmate). At any rate, they've only been together two years, and they're not married.

Also, as I understood it, she didn't want to live with him. There was a lot about them that struck me as "you guys aren't so together, are you?" I think now they are more so (emotionally, even if still not live-in) because somehow the threat of me made her appreciate him more. But then, I didn't see them as having some sacred bond that I'd be so wrong to intrude upon. He was singing an "equal relationships" tune to me the whole time, and I took him at his word. And I think he really wanted that with me. But she wasn't crazy about that once it started to go into effect.

I really didn't want to displace her (when I attempted the reconnect). I understood that they'd been together for a while and had a bond. I wouldn't have minded being a good friend to her and supporting her relationship with him. But she didn't give me a chance. I do contend, though, that it would've needed to be pretty equal for me to be happy long term.

I respect your ability to respect a wife who's been there for her husband for years and years. And on some theoretical level, I would too and know that I should. But emotionally, for me, it wouldn't matter what she did for him for how many years; I don't want to be significantly less important than another woman. I just don't think I could be happy that way.

I think I actually COULD do poly, but it would have to be with a couple who's extremely mature and equality-minded about it. And I get the sense that that's as rare as "unicorns" (lol). I think more often than not, it's a primary couple that's working (either one or both of them) really hard to protect the sanctity of their relationship and will sacrifice anybody else's feelings to do it. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do that. I'm just saying that's not the type of poly couple I could be involved with. I need the type of poly couple who knows how to put the "amorous" in polyamorous. A lot of poly people are just poly without being amorous.
 
Last point. While I do feel that it is "wrong" for the girlfriend to have vetoed you, the only person you can blame for your ex-slash-potential-boyfriend's actions and choices is, actually, him. And only him, really. He accepts a veto condition in his relationship. That's his prerogative. Don't villainize her more than him; neither are without responsibility here. I can sympathize with the desire to condemn her because you don't want to be angry at him, but he is entirely responsible for his choices. And that sucks pretty bad.

Sorry you're going through this.... take good care of yourself while you're healing from this hurt.

Thanks for your thoughts! I'll probably respond to other parts of your post later, but just wanted to acknowledge this (the above) now.

I do blame him too.

And I know, ultimately, that obviously he couldn't have wanted me THAT much if he obeyed the veto.

I just remember those wonderful times we had and how much he seemed to want to fall in love when we were together.

But you're right. It's not all her. It's him obeying her, too. And that means he never had any true feelings for me anyway.

All the more reason why I'm better off.

Yet it still stings...
 
But there's an enormous difference between "You can't date him/her! Waa!" and. "I can't have that person that close to my life. Date them if you choose, and that's okay, but I need to remove myself from this situation." One of those statements seeks to control another person's autonomy. The other is practicing my own autonomy. Though the end result may in fact be that my lover chooses not to involve him/herself with the person because they want to keep their relationship with me intact, it is not because I am forcing their hand. The end result might be that I leave the lover instead, and while that would suck, I couldn't live with myself if I were to be so controlling.

I understand the distinction you're making, and I don't think you're wrong to make that distinction. But I myself see the latter as still controlling. It's creating a huge 'penalty' for the person (your partner) seeing his or her new gf/bf. Some people call that practicing autonomy, and it is. But it is also creating a very large penalty.

I wouldn't do it, myself. If I were in a poly couple and were feeling jealous of a new girlfriend that my boyfriend started dating, I'd say "See her. It's going to be hard as hell for me because she scares me big time, and you liking her so much scares me, but I don't want to take the path of least resistance by just vetoing her. I am going to need a lot of reassurances while this happens, but let's go with it."

If I tell him, "I understand you want to see her, but know that I will have to depart if you do so," I'd just feel....immature.
 
The poly couple in my situation had circumstances very different from from a life time (or even a decade or so) of being a "team." They met in March of 2010. Heck, *I've* known her for longer than he has (although...as I mentioned, I only knew her as a distant classmate). At any rate, they've only been together two years, and they're not married.

Also, as I understood it, she didn't want to live with him. There was a lot about them that struck me as "you guys aren't so together, are you?"

...


I respect your ability to respect a wife who's been there for her husband for years and years. And on some theoretical level, I would too and know that I should. But emotionally, for me, it wouldn't matter what she did for him for how many years; I don't want to be significantly less important than another woman. I just don't think I could be happy that way.

Yes, I do think that 25 years together, financial support, marriage, all of it makes for a very different situation than yours.

As to the bolded part, I completely agree. And that's why I think the system has inherent flaws, why I would probably not agree to be part of this again, and why I will not let him be the love of my life without whom I cannot live.

In part, I worry about him, too. He's very, very emotionally invested, although he himself told me from the start that he can't offer me any real future and I MUST keep myself open to someone who can and he knows it will end someday. But he would ideally like what we have to last forever, even when he knows it can't and won't. In part, it can't or won't for exactly the reasons you said. I love every minute with him, and it suits me very well right now; I like him very much. But I'm not going to spend my life as second fiddle. To be fair, he went into this knowing that as well I went into it knowing there's no normal progression of the relationship with him.

I guess what I'm saying is, yes, no matter how much I understand it, there's still an inherent unfairness to one person, and I'm not willing to live with that longer than I'm satisfied with the situation as it is.
 
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Yes, I do think that 25 years together, financial support, marriage, all of it makes for a very different situation than yours.

As to the bolded part, I completely agree. And that's why I think the system has inherent flaws, why I would probably not agree to be part of this again, and why I will not let him be the love of my life without whom I cannot live.

In part, I worry about him, too. He's very, very emotionally invested, although he himself told me from the start that he can't offer me any real future and I MUST keep myself open to someone who can and he knows it will end someday. But he would ideally like what we have to last forever, even when he knows it can't and won't. In part, it can't or won't for exactly the reasons you said. I love every minute with him, and it suits me very well right now; I like him very much. But I'm not going to spend my life as second fiddle. To be fair, he went into this knowing that as well I went into it knowing there's no normal progression of the relationship with him.

I guess what I'm saying is, yes, no matter how much I understand it, there's still an inherent unfairness to one person, and I'm not willing to live with that longer than I'm satisfied with the situation as it is.

How long have you two been together? Does his wife support you having a primary role or does she actively want to keep you at some secondary level? Are you and the wife friends?

I think it might be more satisfying to you if it were more of a live-in thing. I hear that poly couples who are a "family" work a lot better. Do you have such circumstances or is it more like he sees you for dates a couple times a week?
 
He said, "I don't know what's going to happen. I may end up breaking away from her. We just have to see what happens."

You mentioned that you're probably not going to be pursuing a poly relationship in the future, and I get that. Still, I wanted to point out that this is a huge red flag for me.

If I'm just starting to date someone who's already in a relationship, it's important to me that the relationship be strong and stable. If it's not, and if the person I'm interested in indicates that it may be breaking up in the near future, I want to get far, far away from that.

Also, I feel uncomfortable with a veto situation. It's too much of a shorthand for a dynamic that actually exists in any relationship, and which actually requires a much more nuanced conversation. If someone's primary (or partner who preexists me) really doesn't like me, then they may decide that at any point that it's me or them, regardless of whether a veto agreement is in place. The veto just cuts short what may be productive and important dialogue.

But honestly, if someone's primary (or preexisting partner) really doesn't like me, that's another big red flag. I think I'm easy to get along with. If the partner really doesn't like me, then either (a) the couple has issues with polyamory, so red flag, or (b) the couple has issues with drama, another red flag. Also, if she doesn't like me, and they are a well established couple, then maybe he won't like me either once the NRE wears off (if they're a solid couple, they share values, so maybe we're too far apart in various ways).

In any event, if a veto card is being drawn (or circumstances exist to support a veto card, if there were a veto agreement), then I am probably better off elsewhere.

Back to my original point, though-- if the primary/preexisting relationship is suffering, then now is not the time to get involved. You were lucky to get out when you did, for THIS reason more than anything else.
 
You mentioned that you're probably not going to be pursuing a poly relationship in the future, and I get that. Still, I wanted to point out that this is a huge red flag for me.

If I'm just starting to date someone who's already in a relationship, it's important to me that the relationship be strong and stable. If it's not, and if the person I'm interested in indicates that it may be breaking up in the near future, I want to get far, far away from that.

What's your reason for wanting to stay far from it? Is it because you think it automatically means drama will ensue?

Also, I feel uncomfortable with a veto situation. It's too much of a shorthand for a dynamic that actually exists in any relationship, and which actually requires a much more nuanced conversation. If someone's primary (or partner who preexists me) really doesn't like me, then they may decide that at any point that it's me or them, regardless of whether a veto agreement is in place. The veto just cuts short what may be productive and important dialogue.

Yup, don't like that either. How can one feel safe and secure (things that one should feel in a relationship) when there's the possibility some other party might soon be saying that you must be gotten rid of?

But honestly, if someone's primary (or preexisting partner) really doesn't like me, that's another big red flag. I think I'm easy to get along with. If the partner really doesn't like me, then either (a) the couple has issues with polyamory, so red flag, or (b) the couple has issues with drama, another red flag. Also, if she doesn't like me, and they are a well established couple, then maybe he won't like me either once the NRE wears off (if they're a solid couple, they share values, so maybe we're too far apart in various ways).

I feel the same way. I'll grant that not everybody is going to think (of me) "oh she's so my kinda girl" (as in some kind of 'exact personality' match), but there is nothing contrary or blatantly red flaggy about me that people just find problematic. I am congenial and easygoing and totally clean-cut. The girl in my situation has every reason to like me. And she knows good and darn well that she basically does. (As do I her -- well, not as much now, obviously). She has no reason to not like me. It's all about not wanting a threatening presence around.

I think they have 'issues with polyamory' like you said. They're not ready for it at all.

Also, if she doesn't like me, and they are a well established couple, then maybe he won't like me either once the NRE wears off (if they're a solid couple, they share values, so maybe we're too far apart in various ways).

I disagree here, though. I think one party in a couple (the person you're dating) can like you a lot even though the other has issues with you. Granted, they have some shared values, but they're not replicas; they have distinctions of personality and taste.

Think about how you are friends with Person X who is friends with person Y. Well, obviously you and Person Y really enjoy Person X as a friend (meaning there is some overlap in your taste in friends), but that doesn't mean you and Person Y would make good friends.

Some friends of my friends don't appeal to me at all, even though you would think they would because we both like at least one same person...

Likewise, in my situation, the girl and I showed ourselves to have the same taste in guys when it came to HIM (her long time boyfriend and my new boyfriend). Yet, I don't think she'd like my ex-boyfriend. Our taste overlapped in a particular guy but not necessarily in all men.

Besides which, I don't think a poly person in a couple having "issues" with their partner's new gf or bf is about a beef with the personality of that person. It's more about jealousy. Hence, it's easy to see how the guy or girl your seeing really DOES like you while their partner doesn't. It's because their partner's "not liking you" is based on jealousy, not on your personality. The guy or girl you're seeing, on the other hand, has no jealousy of you because they're dating you; they like your personality and aren't biased against it.

Back to my original point, though-- if the primary/preexisting relationship is suffering, then now is not the time to get involved. You were lucky to get out when you did, for THIS reason more than anything else.

Yeah, I think I definitely dodged a bullet. It's a shame, though, because he was wonderful.
 
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How long have you two been together?
Six months.

Does his wife support you having a primary role or does she actively want to keep you at some secondary level?
I don't think they really think in terms of primary and secondary. She has a long term boyfriend and several others she sees. He spends sometimes 3 or 4 nights a week with me; if my schedule doesn't accommodate that, we might only spend a couple of nights a week together. We talk on the phone pretty much every day. But I don't think she has any fear of him moving out or leaving her or anything like that, either. So I guess in some ways, it's about as equal as it could be.


Are you and the wife friends?
No. I've met her and liked her, long before I knew they had this sort of marriage. But honestly, I can't get over the discomfort at the thought of sitting in a room trying to 'act normal' with a woman when I'm very sexual with her husband. I know she has no problem with it, obviously, and in fact, is encouraging more. I know he's friends with her boyfriend and none of them thinks anything of walking in while the others are having sex, but, frankly, this is not my world.


I think it might be more satisfying to you if it were more of a live-in thing. I hear that poly couples who are a "family" work a lot better. Do you have such circumstances or is it more like he sees you for dates a couple times a week?

I'm a single mother with kids and pets. They're child-free in a very small apartment. Between that and my discomfort at this stage with all of it, no, there will be no living together! :p To be honest, I'm very happy in my own home, going to bed alone in my own bed every night. I like my privacy, I like my freedom, I like not having to worry about things like who keeps the bathroom cleaner and who leaves toothpaste stains all over, lol! I wouldn't move in with anyone at this stage even if I had no children and they had a big, roomy house.
 
Last point. While I do feel that it is "wrong" for the girlfriend to have vetoed you, the only person you can blame for your ex-slash-potential-boyfriend's actions and choices is, actually, him. And only him, really. He accepts a veto condition in his relationship. That's his prerogative. Don't villainize her more than him; neither are without responsibility here. I can sympathize with the desire to condemn her because you don't want to be angry at him, but he is entirely responsible for his choices. And that sucks pretty bad.

Sorry you're going through this.... take good care of yourself while you're healing from this hurt.

Actually, want to add something to what I said earlier.

Even though I do blame him, too, I blame her more. Here's why. I don't condemn him for being loyal to her over me because I don't condemn him for caring about a woman he's been with for two years over a woman he's been with only for seven weeks. She's an attractive and (probably) basically good person who he has feelings for, and I don't blame him for not wanting to lose that to a relatively unknown commodity - me.

I mean, when I think of a particular past relationship of mine at the 2 year mark, and how, if we were poly and another guy had come into the picture and I really really liked the new guy, I still would probably cut the 2nd guy loose (after just seven weeks) if the first guy said he would leave me if I see the other guy.

The guy in my situation wanted to date me. He was the one who pursued me in the first place. He was also the one who, when I got back in touch with him and just had a friendly conversation, said "We should spend some time together again." He made that move, not me. He was embracing me with tenderness when I saw him in person. His words to me when he told me that he and I could not date again, after all, were "I know you're okay with it, but she's not, and I just can't deal with all that with her." (presumably, 'her emotions about it')

I don't think that a woman who's involved with a poly couple should play obvious second fiddle to the wife or long-term girlfriend LONG TERM. But at the point that he and I were, seven weeks of knowing each other, and then an attempt to rekindle, it is a little understandable that he obeyed her.

Now, if he and I had been together a year (and they had been together for two years) and he drops me at her behest, then IN THAT CASE, I blame him more because by then he and I should have gelled more and his letting her chop me out would have been more offensive.

It's in that sense that I don't blame him as much.
 
Six months.

I don't think they really think in terms of primary and secondary. She has a long term boyfriend and several others she sees. He spends sometimes 3 or 4 nights a week with me; if my schedule doesn't accommodate that, we might only spend a couple of nights a week together. We talk on the phone pretty much every day. But I don't think she has any fear of him moving out or leaving her or anything like that, either. So I guess in some ways, it's about as equal as it could be.

Yeah, I would agree that everyday contact plus a few times a week together is fine. I would have no problem with that. That would even be my ideal.


No. I've met her and liked her, long before I knew they had this sort of marriage. But honestly, I can't get over the discomfort at the thought of sitting in a room trying to 'act normal' with a woman when I'm very sexual with her husband. I know she has no problem with it, obviously, and in fact, is encouraging more. I know he's friends with her boyfriend and none of them thinks anything of walking in while the others are having sex, but, frankly, this is not my world.

Nor is it my world. I'd be comfortable knowing the woman and having sort of a respectful and congenial but relatively distant friendship. Like, maybe a phone conversation between me and her once every two weeks. Maybe a coffee outing once a month or every six weeks. But I'm not down with live-in situations, nor even with hanging out all together or lying around on a couch all cuddling together. That's totally not me.
I'm a single mother with kids and pets. They're child-free in a very small apartment. Between that and my discomfort at this stage with all of it, no, there will be no living together! :p To be honest, I'm very happy in my own home, going to bed alone in my own bed every night. I like my privacy, I like my freedom, I like not having to worry about things like who keeps the bathroom cleaner and who leaves toothpaste stains all over, lol! I wouldn't move in with anyone at this stage even if I had no children and they had a big, roomy house.

I'm similar. I don't have kids, but I like freedom and autonomy. That said, I could live with a guy as long as we have a pretty spacious living space and can have rooms to ourselves at times, etc. I wouldn't have wanted to live with him *and* her, though. At one time, the guy in my situation said he could see me living with him, and I don't think he meant with her too. He meant me live with him but her still in his life as well. I think he was really down for making me a huge part of his life but having her in his life as well.

But that was then. Things changed because it (the experience with me) affected her (and subsequently, him) in strange ways.
 
I know you are disappointed and didn't get a good closure on that one. That stinks.

But I think it boils down to understanding polymath and good communication and being a good whatever you are in the config you are in.

Be it as the GF, BF, Husband, Wife, Metamour, Paramour, whatever it is in the config... all players must understand who they are, their responsibilites for keeping up good communication and how to weather the storms -- be it storms of rainbow joys or storms of yucky ughs.

It sounds like s/he didn't have all their cards together before he rekindled with you and ooops! Got step back and bam. Hurt feelings. Sigh.

It would have been better to connect with you and have a chance to talk it out as a trio and not just get a brusque veto chop.

An apology would have been nice, ykwim? It's not anyone's fault that wires got crossed somehow and I think everyone learned something from the experience. You go with your gut and clear the air before going in, them be more up front about what parameters it is they are looking for in particular.

There's no one size fits all poly config! Everyone has different needs, situations.

GalaGirl
 
I understand the distinction you're making, and I don't think you're wrong to make that distinction. But I myself see the latter as still controlling. It's creating a huge 'penalty' for the person (your partner) seeing his or her new gf/bf. Some people call that practicing autonomy, and it is. But it is also creating a very large penalty.

I wouldn't do it, myself. If I were in a poly couple and were feeling jealous of a new girlfriend that my boyfriend started dating, I'd say "See her. It's going to be hard as hell for me because she scares me big time, and you liking her so much scares me, but I don't want to take the path of least resistance by just vetoing her. I am going to need a lot of reassurances while this happens, but let's go with it."

If I tell him, "I understand you want to see her, but know that I will have to depart if you do so," I'd just feel....immature.

To be clear, I am do not mean random people I haven't met and don't know. The very few specific people that fall into that area for me are individuals who have committed a rape or sexual abuse against myself or a family member, and one person who is an actual danger to me. If a lover of mine elected to date one of these very specific people, that lapse in judgement is not safe to me, and I won't date somebody who is not safe.

On the other hand, the chances of anyone I choose to love wanting to date any of those very few people is.... highly unlikely. I don't forsee me dating someone that.... Un-good. All the same, I will NEVER compromise the safety of my self, my lovers, my pets, my future children, just because I love someone who makes dangerous choices. I would instead remove myself from the danger.
 
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