How "out" are you as poly, really? And why?

AggieSez

New member
Hi, folks

Yesterday was National Coming Out Day -- which isn't just an LGBTQ thing. It's for us poly folk too. So I did a post on SoloPoly.net (a blog for, by, and about poly/open people who don't have and maybe don't want a primary-style partner) about "outness" issues. Especially how being out as poly/open might affect solo people -- both their own outness, and the outness of their partners.

http://solopoly.net/2012/10/11/coming-out-how-out-are-you-as-poly-really-and-why/

I go into considerable depth the problematic interaction between "couple privilege" and outness.

I've noticed that many poly/open primary couples often maintain the public face of having only one conventional, ostensibly closed relationship, --while keeping their additional relationships (regardless of depth or duration) more or less a secret outside the poly community. Also, these primary couples often are not fully honest with their additional partners (or perhaps even with themselves) that the price of entry to a relationship with them means stepping into the poly closet.

This dynamic can have profound negative affects on any nonprimary partner, but it can be especially hurtful to solo poly folk. I wish more primary couples -- and the poly community in general -- would recognize and discuss this dynamic more. Because this is a big factor in making polyamory far more challenging and emotionally risky for nonprimary partners and solo people.

Anyway, this post is written from my own experience and perspective, informed by input from many poly/open people I've discussed it with. I'd appreciate more input. Please feel free to comment here or on the blog.

Also: Anyone got any good poly coming out stories? Do tell!

- Aggie
 
Very interesting and well-written article! I did catch one typo that you may want to correct. In the section "It's not always obvious how out poly/open someone is" in the fourth paragraph, I think you mean to say, "so no one should be forced to be out" but it reads, "so one should be forced to be out."

As for my own level of outness, there is a pretty complicated mess when it comes to me and my partners.

I am out to my immediate family (mom, dad, and brother) and to all of my friends. I am out to many people where I work, but not to everyone yet. I live and work in a very conservative town, so I have been coming out slowly at work to make sure I will not be endangering my livelihood by doing so. As of right now, I don't think there is a high risk of me being fired for it, so I think I may start to be more open over the next few months. I am not out to my extended family or out on social networks, and both of these are because of my fiance's immediate family.

My fiance is out to a few people where he works and most of his friends (the ones who aren't family friends with his parents and sisters). He is not out at work because he is not sure how the company would handle it, and my boyfriend and he work for the same company, so if trouble happened, they would both likely lose their jobs at once. Until they work at separate companies, they are not comfortable being fully out at work. My fiance is not comfortable with telling his immediate family because they are extremely conservative. I have been present for quite a few family hullabaloos and they aren't pretty or fun. They are very quick to outgroup me in particular and as my fiance does not have another girlfriend at the moment, they would likely treat it as if I were taking advantage of him or that it was my fault that he got into it. They would likely refuse to believe it is something he really wants. He wants to have a good relationship with them because they are important to him, and none of us are sure that would be possible if he were out. On my end, if we were to have future children, I am not confident they would not try to declare us unfit parents based on this and there isn't a whole lot of legal precedent or protection. Until after our wedding, I will not be outing myself to my extended family for this reason. I want to make sure there are no chances for slip-ups or accidents and I don't want to have to explain to every single one of them that they can't talk to my fiance's family about it.

My boyfriend is out to many of his friends, and to some of the same people at work my fiance is out to. He has come out to his mother, who has said that she wants to be the one to explain it to his little sister. He has come out to his brother. He has not yet come out to his father, as he is not sure how his father would take it (his father is the more religious member of the family).

I think that both of my partners will eventually come out at work to the people they need to come out to. It isn't as difficult for them because each only has one partner to refer to at the moment. My boyfriend refers to me by my middle name when he talks about his girlfriend. The only problem is that she can never come to office parties with him. I think they just want to move slowly to avoid potentially ruining both of their careers at the same time.

I will eventually be out at my workspace as I am feeling more secure in my employment and I do not think I am at risk.

Bah, long and complicated like I promised. I really like the concepts you explore in your articles, and at least among our social circles I have tried to be as fair to him as possible and have asked many times along the way to make sure he is comfortable with our level of outness.
 
I understand the predicament of legally married couples, esp. those with kids. If they have been honest about their situation from the very start, non-primary poly partners should not feel bad 'closeted'. Being indiscreet will bring them a lot of legal/financial troubles.

In my own experience when I used to have a bf (which may be considered as non-primary), we came up with a work-around solution ("selected outing"), wherein the bf introduced me to his own circle of friends and family as his gf/partner so long as his circle was away from and there was no possiblity of interacting with my own circle of friends and family I share with my ltr primary partner (it can be considered primary because Im living with him). We used to live in a big city during that time, but honestly, i don't know how it will work out if we were in a smaller town.
 
Hi Xtin

As I mentioned in my post, anyone (including primary couples, even legally married ones) are certainly free to determine how "out" they want to be.

That said, nonprimary partners should be similarly free to decide how out, or how closeted, we're willing to be about our own relationships.

The trouble is, often people in poly primary couples don't disclose clearly to their additional partners the kind of closeting the expect their partners to go along with. Too often its something that only becomes evident well after a nonprimary relationship has been established. Frankly, that's really unfair to, and inconsiderate of, nonprimary partners. We deserve enough clear information, early enough in a relationship, to be able to make informed choices about how involved we want to get -- if at all.
 
Thanks @musicalrose

Yes, considerations of jobs, housing, extended family, custody, etc. can certainly complicate decisions about poly outness. I certainly don't begrudge anyone their choice, as long as they're clear and up front with their partners about it.

That said, as I mentioned in my post, often despite our best efforts to control access to our own personal info, often people do get outed by others against their wishes or before they're ready.

I'm curious: given how much you & your partners seem to have at stake, do you have a contingency plan to handle unintended or premature outing?

Thanks for the proofreading. Will fix that typo when I'm back on my computer.
 
We are out as much as others care to acknowledge. I make no effort to hide my relationship with either partner. Some people may not know the terms we use-but they definitely know we are a we.
 
We started out not out much at all, but the more involved we got with the poly community here, the more were were out everywhere. Not to everyone, of course. But if you didn't know me well enough to know my wife's name or that I even had a wife, then you weren't likely to know about other partners. But in general, if you knew us, you knew we were poly.

When I was living with both my wife and boyfriend, we didn't usually go to any trouble to out ourselves. We just were. We showed up as a unit, and if you had questions, you could ask. Most people just accepted it.

This was also back when we were raising a child and had corporate jobs. I don't think we ever felt like we were risking that much. Mostly people were curious or envious, not scandalized.

Family was another issue. They all seemed to be fine with our coming out, but later didn't act very accepting at all. My sister threw a hissy fit about only inviting only one of my partners to her wedding. Neither were likely to come in any case, but it still irked me, especially as she has had her fair share of non-traditional relationships. My wife's aunt spitefully outed us to another family member, when we all bumped into each other in a public place where we were attending a poly meet-up. My in-laws made a big deal before our wedding that basically amounted to, "now that you're getting married, you'll stop all that silly poly nonsense."

That said, now that we haven't been actively poly in a few years, we're not out to many people at all. We have loads of new friends, and the topic never comes up. I don't think most of them would mind or judge us if it did. And sometimes I don't even think to out ourselves, even when there is an opening. For example, we were invited to a friend's house for dinner with another couple, and when I asked the wife how she met our mutual friend, the answer was "Oh, I'm dating his brother." I said cool and we chatted about it, but it never seemed like a good time to slip in, "oh hey, we used to do that sort of thing, too."

Sometimes it feels very strange to reflect that so many people in our lives now don't know what seems like a very basic fact about us. Most of them also assume I am a lesbian, because the topic of my exes (all men) has never come up. As we move back into being actively poly, it's obviously something we'll have to figure out all over again.

As a secondary, if you were hiding me all of the time to everyone, that would be too much for me to deal with. I won't out you, but I probably wouldn't stick around long. If it's just specific people or situations, however, I don't mind being respectful of that and letting you do what you feel you need to do. But yes, please let me know where those lines are early on.
 
I'm amused by the word "really" in the title of this thread. What is that supposed to mean? the opposite of "not really"?

I am "really" "out" if the topic ever comes up. If anyone i know is unaware of that, it's just because they haven't found out YET. I don't give a shit what people think. Most people don't give a shit about it either, unless it's because they are fascinated and curious and have questions they would like me to answer.

My domestic partner is involved with someone who is not "out" to anyone (except their closest friends and daughter) because they live in a small conservative hick town and run a business there that depends on public patronage and perception. It could hurt their livelihood and income if the customer-base became aware that they're in a relationship with a married person.

My other partner is pretty weird too, and is very "anti-monogamous". However, we don't share a common group of friends at this time, so nobody "really" knows about our relationship except perhaps our other SO's.
 
Hi @boring guy

To clarify, I borrowed "really" from the title of my blog post. In that post, one of the first points I make is that sometimes it can be really confusing to figure out how out someone is -- especially if they aren't thinking or communicating about outness very clearly or honestly.
 
Hi @boring guy

To clarify, I borrowed "really" from the title of my blog post. In that post, one of the first points I make is that sometimes it can be really confusing to figure out how out someone is -- especially if they aren't thinking or communicating about outness very clearly or honestly.


Ok, lol; I hadn't seen that.
 
Thanks @musicalrose

Yes, considerations of jobs, housing, extended family, custody, etc. can certainly complicate decisions about poly outness. I certainly don't begrudge anyone their choice, as long as they're clear and up front with their partners about it.

That said, as I mentioned in my post, often despite our best efforts to control access to our own personal info, often people do get outed by others against their wishes or before they're ready.

I'm curious: given how much you & your partners seem to have at stake, do you have a contingency plan to handle unintended or premature outing?

Thanks for the proofreading. Will fix that typo when I'm back on my computer.
We are hoping that IF they are outed at work and IF one or both of them is fired for it, that they won't have too much trouble finding work elsewhere. There are at least a few people in the office that are also personal friends of ours and already know and would probably act as professional references for them. We aren't sure they would be fired, but we are treading carefully for now.

If we are outed to my fiance's parents, we will just deal with it. It isn't ideal for them to know, but it won't be the end of the world if they find out either. Either they will eventually drop the subject or accept it on a basic level, or they will raise enough hell that my fiance will stop dealing with them. I'm trying not to stress out too much about it. Right now our secrecy with them is preferred rather than necessary, at the very least until our wedding goes through. We don't want them to interfere with the wedding planning or cause a scene.
 
To our friends; Me and the wife are very open with how we operate, everyone who knows us knows how we have additional relationships which is nice because when one of us ends up with an additional partner they usually have a much easier time integrating into our social circles as the behaviour and relationship model is long since known and accepted.

Actually with the mention about "couple privileges" and "openness" and such;
Part of the reason that we are as open as we are with our social circles is specifically so that anyone we get involved with outside of each other isn't made to feel like a dirty-little-secret/shameful-something-on-the-side/etc. Frankly I think it would be horrible if I couldn't walk down the street in public holding my girlfriend's hand. In my mind not being able to openly celebrate or address a bond with someone would be lending a tone of invalidation the relationship.

Our families are aware as well, and accepting of it but for the most part prefer if we're not exceedingly overt around the elder members of the family (most of them anyway, I've got a great-aunt in her 80's who's curiously . . . . . . well versed . . . . . on some of the ins and outs of multiple partner relationships, and rather joyful to meet any ladies either of us get involved with :confused: ) Of course this is also the way my wifes family treats wifes bisexuality. Which is to say they recognise it, but don't really approach the subject in detail.

At work several of my co-workers who've know me and/or my wife for years know we're poly and what that involves, but for the most part its not mentioned around the office and management isn't privy to that information.
Not that it could have a negative impact on me professionally, but because I keep most details of my life outside of the job on a need-to-know basis, and for the most part my employer does not need to know more than the most scant details about how I live outside of the work day.
I don't see it as being any of their business really.
(In fact as far as the job goes, I'd be more comfortable and likely opening up with being poly than say, my religious beliefs and practices or my social politics)
 
Out

I am out to my family, and many of my friends know if they are close to me.
Work wasn't an issue since I worked for my father-in-law.

Mad Science: out to family and friends but not at work, it's not really a big deal at this point.

Prof: out at work and with friends but as far as family only his mom knows
 
This just came up in some other threads I was posting in here so I will quote myself again in answering the "how out are you" question":

... we are not "out" to the world at large - and won't be, at least until I retire, due to my profession (morality clauses and whatnot).

I can't say that this particularly bothers me - there are many areas of my life that I keep "private" from the world at large. But then again, I am a generally private person - I do not develop social friendships with coworkers, for instance. I tend to divide people into three spheres - professional/public, family/acquaintances, chosen family/close friends.

How I present/interact with Dude (or my female FWB for that matter) depends on which "sphere" I am in. In a professional/public context - he is my husband's best friend who I am also close to. I might tell a story about a meal he cooked for us, we might be seen eating or shopping together (with no PDA), I will introduce him as "our friend" if I run into people while we are out.

In a family/acquaintance context - people know that he lives with us but not that we are "together", I might tell a story about how he answered the door in his underwear, I will refer to him as "our roommate".

In a chosen family/close friends context - people know he is my "boyfriend", I might tell a story about a funny thing that happened during sex, or talk about how our feelings have evolved over time.

These levels feel natural to me. I don't think "everyone in my life" - from my boss to the maillady - has a right to know my personal business. My family is great - but they are related to me by accident of birth, not by choice. Acquaintances may be nice people - I interact with them around certain activities or talk with them on limited topics. Just because family/acquaintances share some aspects of my life, doesn't mean that they have to share ALL of them. Chosen family and close friends are the only people who, I think, are entitled to the "real me" - otherwise they aren't chosen family/close friends - these people love ME. They might not agree with me but they get the whole ME.

I talk about this a little more in my "Notebook" blog on this site where I add:

Luckily for me, my two boys understand and concur with my analysis. We are not at odds about this. I have encouraged Dude to share and seek support from friends (many of whom we have yet to meet) if he wants to. Apparently he has chosen well. He tells me that the few people that he has discussed this with have been of the mindset of "As long as you are happy...." MrS's/my mutual friends were tentatively okay with it as they puzzled it out and realized that #1.) no one was being manipulated/abused and #2.) this did not necessarily change our relationships with them (i.e. no one else was expected to by poly just because we were).

Actually, my biggest fear comes from what happens when Dude decides to start dating again (he's been pretty caught up with his NRE for me/us and hasn't seen anyone new since he moved in.) He says that anyone he dates would have to be okay with him continuing to see me (although the shape of our relationship might/will change) - but I worry about what happens when they argue and she threatens to "out" us. (I hope this is paranoia talking - his last GF, CrazyGirl, is seriously nuts, knows that we are somehow 'involved', partially blames me for their last break-up, and STILL hasn't tried to ruin our lives...)

JaneQ

PS. In the public/professional sphere I tend not to be vocal about my political or religious views either...so most random people will assume that I am a "straight-monogamist-republican-protestant christian" because that is what they expect of someone of my age/gender/profession - when in fact I am a "bisexual-polyamorist-libertarian-agnostic". Most of the time I just sit back and chuckle at how their assumptions manifest themselves. :rolleyes:
 
In that post, one of the first points I make is that sometimes it can be really confusing to figure out how out someone is -- especially if they aren't thinking or communicating about outness very clearly or honestly.

There's the fundamental problem I have with this discussion. It's not clear how any given person relates to others when encountered in public. I've no idea, based on just looking at random people in public areas, whether they're mono or poly. That couple could be married, could be dating, could be close friends, could be having an affair--I don't know.

Now, with that being the normal course of affairs, the idea that poly folk should behave in some fashion that everybody can know they're poly just from encountering them seems silly to me. I have to say that when I've been out in public at restaurants with my wife and amorata, we haven't hid anything. Yet, nobody looking on casually would be able to tell which of the ladies is the wife, nor necessarily even that I share romantic connections with each.

It also appears to me that much of what you attribute to couple privilege has nothing to do with privilege and a great deal to do with very practical matters--the possible loss of employment and the like, simply for openly loving too many people. If such situations weren't part of the picture, then I could take complaints about couple privilege more seriously.
 
Thanks for the responses -- and what do solo poly people think?

Thanks for the many thoughtful responses to this thread.

I've notice that the vast majority of these responses came from people who are part of a primary-style couple. I'd also love to hear views from solo poly/open people -- that is, people who don't have (and who maybe aren't seeking or don't want) a primary-style relationship of their own.

If you're solo (or maybe just consider yourself "single") and are or have been involved in poly/open relationships as a solo/single person:
- How out are you about being poly/open? In what contexts?
- Why are you out (or not)?
- What issues have you encountered regarding how out your significant relationship partners are/have been -- especially if you've been involved with people who do have a primary partner?

Thanks!

- Aggie
 
Thanks, AutumnalTone

To clarify my remark that it can be difficult to tell how out someone is about being poly/open -- I wasn't really talking about walking past a stranger on the street and being able to tell whether they're poly.

Rather, I am talking about being able to discern how out someone who you are in a relationship with (or are becoming intimately involved with) really is. Especially if that person already has a primary partner. Because IME that's often not really obvious. People often don't think clearly and honestly, or communicate clearly or honestly, about how out they are or are willing to be.

Consequently, it's common for nonprimary partners to end up getting treated more or less like a secret -- regardless of whether they want or would agree to be closeted. That's a VERY common problem for nonprimary partners, especially for solo poly folk. Often this truth only emerges after a nonprimary relationship has become well established. Months or years down the line, the primary partner starts stumbling over previously undisclosed and non-negotiated (and non-negotiable) boundaries, exclusions, or requirements. This can be especially painful if your partner has a very public primary relationship, yet treats you like a secret, and expects you to be complicit in this secrecy.

Many people (especially straight primary/married poly couples) are quick to justify this closeting as a practical necessity driven by professional, legal, financial , or family concerns. Sometimes that is very clearly the case. (I mean, hell, it's still legal to be fired for being gay in over half of US states.)

However, I've also known several poly/open primary couples, even married ones (a few living in conservative states or communities), who do not conceal their additional relationships -- and the sky hasn't fallen. They haven't lost their jobs, their families haven't disowned them, their children haven't been confiscated, they haven't been evicted.

So, respectfully, I'd like to submit that perhaps such justifications often are really based more on assumptions that also conveniently happen to preserve couple privilege.

I say this because when I speak to poly couples who choose to stay in the closet and who expect their additional partners to keep this secret, I've found that usually they appear to be mostly clinging abstractly to those assumptions and fears. Generally they do little or nothing to research the facts about those risks, or to explore options to mitigate those risks which don't involve treating nonprimary partners as a secret or requiring them to closet or censor themselves on your behalf.

What do couples get out of preserving couple privilege? The many, many social recognitions and benefits that come with presenting as a committed primary couple, especially a hetero married couple. Plus the personal benefits of partners reinforcing primacy to each other. ("You're really #1, because I'll always put any other partners needs behind yours.") But if you have additional partners who stay closeted on your behalf, those benefits don't come free. Someone else is paying for them -- perhaps unwillingly.

- Aggie
 
correcting a typo:

I meant to write: "Months or years down the line, the non-primary partner starts stumbling over previously undisclosed...
 
I'm out to the people that matter, the ones closest to me. I'll be out to any potential partners in the future. Anyone else might or might not find out in their own time. I don't worry about it at this point.
 
. . . I am talking about being able to discern how out someone who you are in a relationship with (or are becoming intimately involved with) really is. Especially if that person already has a primary partner. Because IME that's often not really obvious. People often don't think clearly and honestly, or communicate clearly or honestly, about how out they are or are willing to be.

I find this a very strange statement. I mean, if I (solo) were considering getting into a relationship with a married guy, this is all definitely part of what we would discuss. And if what he said wasn't clear, I would keep asking questions and pose scenarios until it was clear. I really don't see how cloudy it could be -- certainly a married person would know how to answer, if asked, whether or not he could engage in public displays of affection with a non-spouse around his family or co-workers, for example.

:confused:
 
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