Vicki's Journey

I was spending some time thinking about jealousy today. I've kind of reached a place in my mind where I think I have more understanding about what I feel and why.

The specific issue on my mind was MFM. Both I and his other girlfriend really wanted to do it, me with my H, and her with her fiance. Her fiance lives out of town and came to visit this week, and I am guessing they probably had one. I haven't asked, though, although I probably should since it's been on my mind so much.

I'm a little crushed by the idea that he did it with her first. He had never had one either and I really wanted us to do it together. I keep repeating to myself that what he has with her doesn't take anything away from me. What he and I have is still special no matter what he does with her. Sex with my husband does not make me want sex with L any less.

So I did some more thinking on why I am still feeling jealous, and coming to the realization it's because I'm not getting my needs met. When I am not seeing L and she is, it hurts and I get frustrated and unhappy. And it's not that I don't want him to see her, because I want him to have his sexual needs met and it's not like he and I are seeing each other often enough for that. But it really upsets me that she can see him and I can't. Distance sucks ass. He can stop by her place and visit for an hour or two and he just can't do that with me. So I haven't seen him in four weeks and she sees him at least once a week. It's just not fair :( And yes, I'm whining like a little kid because I know it is what it is and it's not like he doesn't want to see me. But I miss him like crazy and it really hurts that I can't see him.

I have about 9 weeks to look forward to where he's still very busy and has little time for daily communication and not much chance of seeing him. He tells me that he needs me, and that he is going to try to swing a weekend before then but it may not be possible. It breaks my heart to think of going so long without being with him. I miss him so much.

Why does love have to be so hard? He told me he believes that we were meant to meet and be together. I wish that meant we didn't have to be apart so much.

Comments are always welcome. It helps to have other perspectives when I'm thinking about stuff, especially since being in multiple love relationships is still so novel to me.
 
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Today I need some perspective, please. My husband thinks I am overreacting and I am pretty sure I am, but I'm still feeling very messed up.

It probably needs more background info. L has a blog where he writes about the kinky parts of his life, and his submissive reads it. He added me to read it too, several months ago. His submissive doesn't know that he is seeing me. I'm not wild about that, but he says it would just be too much drama.

So last night, he asked me if I had read his blog lately, and I said no. I thought he had let it go dormant since he hadn't written since July. It took me a while to remember my password but when I went there were several new entries. The first couple of ones were his usual sort of updates, and then I hit a couple that hurt like hell.

The next one posted was entitled "exclusivity" and it was basically saying that he found what he was looking for with her and that he was not playing with anyone else in the kink community. I obviously reacted very strongly to that one which is where he says he was careful wording that one to say kink community, and that I'm outside that. It HURT so much, though. I know that because of his relationship with his wife, that at least for now and maybe never, that I can't have the type of completely open poly relationship that you all have. But to be pretty much publicly disavowed? I was physically shaking and sweating and my heart was racing when I read that entry. It took hours for my body to calm down. It frustrates me that he can publicly acknowledge his sub on Fetlife but he can't acknowledge me ever. Or rather, that there is really no point since I don't have much of a profile and why cause so much drama to change nothing? Logically, I can see that. But hearts aren't always logical.

And of course, there's the fallout from reading that. I know he loves her, and he is certainly lying to her by omission. He says he is just "controlling the flow of information" to her, but I would be very upset if he was doing that to me. I asked, and he said he is not, but I feel like our trust is damaged. I don't care what he tells her, frankly; that's part of his relationship with her and it's none of my business. But I worry that if he lies to her to make his life easier, that he'd lie to me. I know he loves me but he says he loves her too, so what's the difference? I always felt so trusting and comfortable with him, and I honestly don't believe he has lied to me. But I feel at least a bit emotionally withdrawn right now.

Those are really the key things that are bothering me. The other stuff is minor and it's on me to deal with, not him. One entry was about his experiences with anal with her and how much he loves anal, and that hurt because we've been trying to work up to it together. So that post made me jealous. And the last one was about his reflections on it being six months since he collared her as his sub, and it's been six months since we got together so that one hit a sour note with me as well. By then I was pretty much overwhelmed with conflicting emotions so I didn't really read much.

He stayed up late with me last night trying to help me calm down and to explain why he wrote what he did. I know that the blog is read by her and so by the necessity of his choices, he has to censor what he writes. But I can't imagine he didn't think that one post wasn't going to cause me a great deal of pain. I know he has no one else that he can sound off to about his "other life" and most of the time I'm happy to be there for him. I'm even okay hearing about his sub a lot of the time because I am glad he is happy. But basically seeing him completely deny our relationship? Fuck.

I didn't sleep well last night and I feel like a mess today. I sent him an email in the middle of the night basically saying these things, but I reread our chat and I pretty much raised the same issues so I am sure he is going to feel frustrated. I don't blame him. I'm sure he was just being obtuse and not deliberately trying to hurt me, but I feel awful. Any words of wisdom?
 
Last night L and I talked on the phone and sorted a few things out but I guess I still don't really feel that the air is cleared, so to speak. I still feel like I am not sure about some of the things we were talking about and despite feeling better about getting to actually talk to him and have some vocal context, I am wondering what words he'd have used to respond in an email. My bad I guess.

And I don't even know how the conversation ended up spiralling off to where he said that if I feel the need to pull back emotionally he will support me in just being friends because he doesn't want to lose my friendship. He said that multiple times and I'm sure he was trying to be kind but instead it just hurt. I sent him that email in the first place because I didn't want to lose our connection and dial back to just friends; I wanted to sort through it. So I don't even know how we got to that place. I told him that's not what I want, and he told me that's not what he wants either, but it was hard to listen to anyway.

I'm still feeling so confused and unhappy today. My thoughts are kind of all piling on top of each other. He said he was confused by my intention in my email where I said that I was envious of all you here on the poly forum having such open relationships and he took the word poly to mean something very serious, like the kind of people who live together. I told him that's not what I meant at all. I'm not looking for that kind of relationship, certainly. I just meant that I came here because I'm in love with two men and sometimes I need help sorting through my thoughts because I don't know how to do this. I'm sure there are lots of times I do or say the wrong thing unintentionally to H or L just because I don't know any better.

I do have to talk to H at some point, though. I know he's just trying to be helpful but he is unintentionally fuelling my insecurities in a big way. He knows it's been a while since I saw L, and he asked me if I thought L was just phasing me out. I said no, but it put that idea in the back of my mind again. He's said a couple of other things too, and certainly last night he told me that if I am expecting emotional energy from L when he's this busy that I am going to push him away. He's probably even right, because I wouldn't have any in L's situation. But I just feel so alone right now and a little overwhelmed with my emotions. I know H is not trying to hurt me and he doesn't want me to break up with L because he knows I value that relationship so much. He just doesn't know any better either I think.

I really feel like I have nowhere but here to pour out my insecurities. I can't tell L, because that's being needy when he has nothing to give me. I can't talk to H, because he is okay with listening to everything except my emotional issues with L. So who do I tell when I am worried that in nine weeks, L will have moved on emotionally? After all, he has his sub, who he can still see through this busy time. They have a relationship, so what does he need me for especially when his recent memories of me are going to be coloured by issues I've been having with the distance? I don't know how to handle things. He's a very logical guy who is good at compartmentalizing, so I'm sure it's frustrating him that I am having trouble dealing with an issue that he thought was shelved.

I just don't know how I'll maintain my connection with him if I try to back off and be patient the way he needs me to be right now. I don't really know even what he wants. Does that mean I don't text him or email him because that is needy? Because today I am, in a big way, so I was thinking it's maybe better not to.

And I guess at the heart of it all, I feel uncertain about my security with him again. What does it mean to say that you love people but you're only in love with one? I really don't understand his distinction but I know it's important to him. Sometimes I don't ask things because I don't want to risk knowing the answer. Do I ever want to live with him? No. I'm not interested in anything that society would consider more serious that what we have now. But are my feelings for him just the same kind of love that I feel for H, except shallower because of time/experience? Yes. So there isn't really a distinction there for me. H clearly recognized from the way I've been behaving lately that I am in love with L.

I guess we'll have to see how things go. I know I am seriously overthinking things and I'm not even close to being rational yet, which is why this post is probably on the disjointed side. I have no idea where I'm going right now.

Last night, H just held me. I really needed it.
 
I am sorry you continue to hurt. I came to read your thread to see what else might be going on for you.

It is good you try to sort out your jealous and realize it stems from needs not being met.

L does not meet your needs right now. WILL HE START MEETING THEM OR NOT?

Last night, H just held me. I really needed it.

I am glad. At least H does the correct ACTIONS to you to show loving behavior from him to you!

Even if his words come out dumb and fuel your anxiety because he's a poly newbie? Or he's not ready to deal with learning to hear words from you about your inner emotional life with other loves? His LOVING ACTIONS TOWARD YOU speak louder than his words here. Could reflect on that.

Again -- ignore L's words. List his ACTIONS. Bottom line -- does he demonstrate loving talk AND loving behavior toward you? Or just all talk and no loving actions? Does he meet your needs or not?

Use objective rulers and tools if YOU cannot see clear right now because of emotional flooding. Take him to paper. Take your time. But do it.

Check jealousy page

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Do you do all the things of page 5?

AND

Does L do all the things of page 6?

It takes two to hold up the relationship, not all on you. If he is not doing all of 6? That's telling you again -- by his actions, exactly how much he is invested in keeping your relationship with him alive and healthy.

Does he do any of these things on this other PDF? Then uncomfortable thought or not, you have to accept he DOES do these things. And these thing are called abuse.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Tactics-Murphy-2010.pdf

Talk is just talk. How's he walking his walk? Does he demonstrate loving behavior toward you or not in helping you when you are down?

Sometimes I don't ask things because I don't want to risk knowing the answer.

Well, hon, if you can accept you cannot see clear but want your suffering to end? You have to do something different than you normally do. Because do what you always have done? Get what you always have gotten.

Your secondary relationship should not make you afraid to print out pages and use a highlighter. It's only paper. What do you have to fear from paper?

Here is an idea:

Tell H - straight up. "I know you don't like to hear about my inner life with L and all the emotions. I am trying to decide if this is worth it any more or not.

Will you please support me even though it makes you feel yucky? I will not talk about emotions. Here is what I want/need from you. Listen to me all the way across and please do not shut down or shut me out. You mission if you choose to accept it -- Be Mr Watch Me Print Pages and Mr Hand Holder.

  • Will you please watch me print these pages? You don't even have to look at them. I just to actually do them and not chicken out because I am afraid of what I might find.
  • Will you just let me hold your hand while I highlight the things I need to highlight? You still do not have to look at the pages.
  • And will you tell me YOU love me? And tell me you will support my decision -- whatever it is I decide?

That is what I want you to do for me. Would you be willing to do that much? Do you accept the mission? "

Then print those two links and get the yellow highlighter. Go! From the gut! No second thoughts or second guessing yourself. See what your GUT tells you even if your brain is struggling. If not sure, just put a questions mark beside it and go, go, go til the end of the page.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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He really doesn't treat me badly. I feel like I must be articulating myself poorly if that's the impression everyone is getting. When he has time for me, I feel so loved and valued and cared for, because he does show it to me. It's just that right now, he can't.

Here are the things I do not like about my relationship with L:

  • I don't like that his other girlfriend doesn't know about me; in her situation, I would be pretty crushed if I thought I was the only one and wasn't, especially since I'm not a casual fling to him.
  • I am uncomfortable that he is willing to "control" this kind of information, especially since he and I are fluid bonded and that requires a lot of trust from me.
  • I don't like that she gets the validation of being something "official" to him while I cannot have the same thing. It makes me feel like my needs are less important than hers.
  • I do not like that I rarely get to talk to him on the phone or Skype, or even use IM chat.
  • I do not like that I see him so rarely, even if I understand that LD sucks.
  • I do not like that for the next nine weeks, I will not get to see him or talk to him as much as I need to be happy. I don't like that he is under so much stress that I cannot talk to him about my emotional needs.
  • I do not like that the other women in his life are getting their needs met while I get the leftovers. It makes me feel unimportant.

Of those things, some are still in his control despite his overwhelming workload right now. I feel uncomfortable asking for those things because I don't want to add to his stress level, but perhaps in the context that they will help me get through nine weeks of less contact, they will be worth it. But really, there has to be something in here about appropriate timing. It's good to articulate needs, but there has to be a time and a place. When I am sick and under pressure from all sides, I would have very little emotional energy to give. I can understand completely that he has little to no energy for me right now, even if it sucks.

I am not really prepared to have the conversation about his sub. I still feel like it's not really any of my business how he conducts his other relationship. I worry that he will lie to me, but honestly, if you don't have trust in someone you don't believe anything they say anyway. So I can choose to believe him when he says he won't lie to me, or I can choose not to. I have decided to believe him.

In a similar vein, I am not sure I am prepared to have a real conversation about how I want to be acknowledged in some way. That ties into having a discussion about his sub since the only place I think he could actually acknowledge me is FetLife and therefore it predisposes that he would have to tell her about us. I would like to have some kind of "public" status there, but I believe that my current desire for recognition is stemming from the fact that my needs are going unmet and so when we get back on normal ground again it won't be as important to me. I am prepared to revisit this point if in fact my desire does not lessen.

I am going to talk to him about the phone/Skype thing and ask for maybe a once a week phone call if only when he's driving home. He should be able to give me that. I understand that he can only Skype when his wife is not home or IM if she's not around, so that isn't something that can change.

The not seeing him frequently isn't something that can really change either. Realistically, I would like to see him a minimum of once a month if I can. I'll have to wait and see what happens in nine weeks to see what kind of frequency he can give me.

So really, of that list, there is only one thing that I can ask for right now. The rest, I am just going to have to suck up for now and try to give him the patience he needs over the next few weeks.

I'm sure this blog sounds negative since by definition, I need the outlet more when I am unhappy than when I am happy. I will have to try harder to give a balanced perspective.

What I like about my relationship with L:

  • I like that he shows me he cares about me in various ways. He is there for me when I need someone to talk to, he makes it a point to ask how I am feeling, and he just generally gives me the overall feeling of being cared for.
  • I like that we are friends as well as lovers. His friendship is important to me.
  • The chemistry between us is very intense, at least on my end. I feel like he belongs in my life and having him there is important to me.
  • I have never felt so happy and fulfilled since we started seeing each other. Having two wonderful men in my life makes me feel so lucky, valued, and special.
  • The sex between us is absolutely incredible. I've never had a partner that I clicked so well with.
  • I felt like my heart recognized something about him before we even met, during the days we were Skyping leading up to our F2F meeting. I already felt differently about him than I did about any of my casual sex partners and I wanted more from him.
  • I do trust him at the core, despite my current worries. I feel comfortable with him.
  • I like that I have a partner that I trust enough to experiment with new sexual activities safely. I feel like I can explore my desires with him.
  • I feel wanted and desired when we are together. He makes me feel attractive and sexy and that I am a good lover.
  • I like that he is intelligent and I enjoy having conversations with him.
  • I like that we can have silly and fun conversations and just enjoy each other's company.
  • I like that we can have sexy conversations that drive us both crazy.

I really value him as my lover and I want him in my life. I know I am going to struggle over the next nine weeks and that the support he can give me to get through it is going to be limited. But sometimes, there really isn't a good choice. I don't want to give up all the good things about our relationship just because this time is going to suck.

I really miss him. I know I'd feel so much better if I could just see him, but it is what it is. I just have to keep reminding myself that this will all be worth it when it's over. I just need to vent sometimes and I don't really have anywhere to do that. I respect H's need to stay away from the emotional side of my relationship with L. He will always be first in my life and I need to make sure his needs are taken care of. I'm lucky that he loves me enough to allow me something I need, even though I know it is difficult for him to understand and accept.

So, I guess that leaves me still feeling crappy, but it is what it is for now anyway.
 
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I do not like that the other women in his life are getting their needs met while I get the leftovers. It makes me feel unimportant.

I do not like that I rarely get to talk to him on the phone or Skype, or even use IM chat.

does not compute with

I like that he shows me he cares about me in various ways. He is there for me when I need someone to talk to, he makes it a point to ask how I am feeling, and he just generally gives me the overall feeling of being cared for.

I am uncomfortable that he is willing to "control" this kind of information, especially since he and I are fluid bonded and that requires a lot of trust from me.

does not compute with

I do trust him at the core, despite my current worries. I feel comfortable with him.

There's other pairings there that do not line up. Those are some. Why don't they line up?

Galagirl
 
does not compute with





does not compute with



There's other pairings there that do not line up.

Why don't they?

Galagirl

The disparity is pre and post all this overwhelming crap in his life. Right now they don't match, but they certainly did before. I can only assume that when he has time for me again that they will again. And, we do still text and email, but it's just not the same.

Certainly, right now things suck and I am not getting what I need from him.
 
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I can only assume that when he has time for me again that they will again. And, we do still text and email, but it's just not the same.

And my point is -- if you are valuable and important, why isn't he making the time for you?

So he has work stress and a house remodel. So what? He cannot email you a note once a week to keep in touch? What are you? Chopped liver?

You deserve better treatment than this.

I find it sad you do not feel like you have the right to ask for your relationship to feed you in the way you need to be fed. We teach others how we want to be treated. You are teaching him you are ok being given leftovers. What motivates him to change that and feed you better? If anything -- your hubby is right. What if he is phasing you out? Just seeing just how little relationship maintaining he has to do while still getting all that YOU put into it.

GG
 
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And my point is -- if you are valuable and important, why isn't he making
the time for you?

So he has work stress and a house remodel. So what? He cannot email you a note once a week to keep in touch? What are you? Chopped liver?

You deserve better treatment than this.

GG

Oh, I hear from him more than once a week! It's not like he is ignoring me completely. But it's a big come down to go from talking for hours every day to maybe a text or two a day and a brief email once a day.

My apologies if I made it out like I wasn't hearing from him at all. I won't be seeing him for those nine weeks and it's been four already, so that part really hurts. As a matter of fact, if I hadn't flown to see him at his layover point on his trip last month, I wouldn't have seen him since July. I don't know how I'd be managing that long, to be honest.

Maybe it's my problem, that I need so much communication. If you thought that getting an email once a week was enough, maybe my unhappiness getting a couple a day is disproportionate. But I feel like since I can't see him very often, that I need that communication to stay connected with him. Without it, I start to get unhappy.

He literally does not have the time to make for me right now. I know how things are. So I get the occasional email or text. He doesn't have time to sit down and chat with me for hours like he used to do, and I know that's true. Unfortunately, time is a finite resource. He gives me what he can. On Saturday night when I was very upset after reading those blog posts of his, he stayed with me until 1am when I'm sure he was just dying to go to bed. We spent an hour on the phone yesterday. He is giving me what he can.
 
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Well, if he was my LDR and I heard from him once a week *I* would be ok.

But I am not you and I'm not the one going hungry.

If you need more than that, you need more than that. You have that right.

YOU are the one in the relationship.

You could try to sit tight another 5 weeks but take note of how all this makes you feel.

You do not sound like you thrive in LDR -- maybe you don't want to deal in those any more. You like the happy hormone hit from the sex, and the NRE but those wear off. And there needs to be more than just that to have a real connection. You yourself recognize that.

GG
 
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Once a week is about what I got from my casual sex guys where there was no real connection. I would definitely not be okay with that kind of frequency from L, or at least, I would dial back my emotions to FWB, which is not something I want to do. Honestly, I am not sure I could without ending things completely. It's well past that for me emotionally.

I hate LDR. I always said I would never be in one. When H and I were young, he wanted to go spend some time helping out in a third world country. I told him that I thought that was admirable, but that we should break up because I would not be happy in a long distance relationship. I thought this would be different since I have a primary relationship with my husband, so it's not like I get no touch or affection when I can't see L. But it's been harder on me than I thought it would be. I wish I could see him more often, but the times we are together are generally worth the frustrations in between. It's been four weeks now and this is about the point where it starts to hurt more.

I didn't go looking for one this time, either. L was supposed to be a one night stand. But things don't always go the way we plan, and he makes me very happy. Despite the trouble I'm having dealing with the distance, I'm glad he's in my life and I want to keep him there if he wants to be. And he says he does.
 
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Copying a post over for reference

Seems like a tough situation for you emotionally. *hugs*

I think you need to take a bit of a step back. I see that you feel very strongly that his relationships are his to manage, and you don't want to affect them. You don't want a say in what he tells his sub and you don't want to affect the DADT in his marriage. The relationships are separate entities, and as long as you are happy in yours, the rest is his to manage. Is that correct? If so, I interpret it to mean that you have little influence/power when it comes to his other relationships, and you want it so. That is okay, and a valid place to be.

But why is it then that you worry so much about what you might cause to happen in the other relationships?

With power comes responsibility. If you have power to influence, you should use that wisely, and you should be concerned about more than yourself.

But you don't have/want power to influence. If you want to let him manage his relationships, let him do the work of managing the relationships. You focus on you.

Right now he is having his cake and eating it too, at least when it comes to your relationship (and by the sounds of it, at least with the sub as well). He gets to do whatever he wants, and you have/want no say in it, but then you worry about the consequences. Doesn't that seem messed up?

You are not responsible for his other relationships going well or going badly, especially if you have/want no influence.

If you ask for what you want, you aren't directly causing anything. Do you see that? He has choices to make. He has chosen to be in multiple relationship. That means that sometimes he may have conflicting commitments. He is responsible to manage that, not you. He also has a choice if you ask for something. He can choose to say yes or no. If what you ask for is something that will affect his other relationships, he needs to take that into consideration, and answer you accordingly. You don't need to pre-emptively worry about that. You aren't responsible for his other relationships. But you need to be true to yourself to be happy.

Are you sure part of your motivation in not asking what you want isn't coming from fear that if you do, he will say no? Fear of finding out just how much (or little) of a priority you are to him and how much (or little) he cares about you?

I can totally understand that. It would suck to find out that he doesn't care. But doesn't it also suck being with somebody who doesn't care and not knowing that? Or being so afraid to ask that you never get what you need and end up miserable, even though had they known about it, the other person would have been happy to do it?

I have a hard time asking for what I want, too. And most of the time there is fear in the way, that's why I'm suggesting it. It can be fear of abandonment. For me it's fear of not being accepted/understood as I am. Anyway, the first thing is to admit the fear, and the second is to face it. It's really a choice between misery and potential for happiness. You can sometimes even find that what is making you miserable isn't in fact not getting everything you want, but the fact that you can't express your feelings/wants to your partner. I.e. sometimes you feel better for speaking up even if the other person says no. Other times, it's a dealbreaker for you, and you have some difficult choices to make. You might still feel better, though.

I wrote a reply but the internet ate it. Second time around is never as good but I'll do my best.

Thank you for this post. It gave me a lot to think about.

I've been having trouble sleeping because I have been pretty upset about everything.

This is my first poly relationship. Any time in the past where I have developed feelings for a new man, I lost my desire for my current partner. That didn't happen this time. So I am sure I am making lots of mistakes just because I don't know how to handle the situation. I know I am; early in my relationship with L, I thought that I needed to keep things light and fun and drama free otherwise he wouldn't want to spend time with me. So, that's what we did for a few months. But you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, and we developed feelings for more. Actually, he thinks they were there right from the start. We had a discussion and he said he thought you could have good sex, or sex with no emotion, but not both. I said that we had good sex the first time we were together, and he said that it wasn't without emotion and I couldn't tell him that because he knows better. And I think he is right about that- we had something right from the start. He told me that relationships come with the messy stuff and it is what it is. He's always demonstrated that he cares about me and my feelings. But obviously, this wasn't the best way to go about having a relationship. Of course, I was trying NOT to have a relationship at that point!

Last night I was thinking to myself that asking him to acknowledge me on FetLife would solve both of the big issues that are bothering me. The honesty issue would be taken care of de facto because she would see me on his profile, so he'd have to talk to her about it. And I would get the validation I want so much for our relationship.

On the other hand, I can see his side of things. I still think he made a mistake by not telling her about us early on, but I can kind of see how it snowballed given that it wasn't supposed to be anything. And this is going to cause him a lot of extra stress if he tells her now, which he really doesn't need right now. And I'm not sure that this is something I actually NEED, or if it's just something I want right now since my needs aren't being met by him. It didn't really matter to me before all this external stuff started because he was giving me what I needed from him, so it didn't matter to me if he was keeping me a secret. I don't want to be selfish about something minor if in 9 weeks it won't matter to me anymore.

So I'm not really sure what I want to do. But my feelings keep shifting day by day so I'm just going to try and sit on it for a while. I don't think I'll be hearing much from him over the next couple of days anyway since he is now sick on top of everything else so I won't have to pretend everything is okay when it's not. But on the other hand, I certainly don't want every conversation between us to be a heavy, loaded one. That really isn't fun and I wouldn't want that either.

I know he cares about me. I also know that right now, I am a pretty low priority. It is what it is. There are other things that are more important right now and I understand that. He's married and has responsibilities. If I don't like that, well, I'm married too right? At some point he has no more to give and I just have to suck it up. Time is a finite resource and so is emotional energy.

Sometimes, things really are complicated and I just don't know what to do.
 
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L really is making an effort to connect with me the way I need. It has made so much of a difference in how I'm feeling. Does it still hurt that we haven't seen each other in 5 weeks and it will be longer? Fuck yeah. But at least I feel more secure and happier about our relationship.

I asked him for more phone calls when he's driving home from work at least, and the very next day he texted me and asked if he could call. Unfortunately I happened to be unavailable then but I really appreciate that he tried! And he made time for me to talk about the stuff that's been bothering me.

I feel a lot more comfortable than I did a week ago. I feel like my trust and comfort level are back to where they were before. I feel full of love again.

So I didn't get what I wanted... he said that FetLife wasn't the place for our kind of relationship since it's not about kink, and that he keeps his sex life private. I can understand that. He says the reason he acknowledges his sub there is because it's obviously a kink thing. I told him that I think I was asking because I felt like I was unimportant to him after reading that blog post about exclusivity with her; that if she was meeting all my needs, he wouldn't want me. He made it very clear to me that I meet different needs from her and that he loves me.

He also made me feel better about the fluid bonding thing. He told me that the issue hasn't arisen for them, and it's not something he is considering anyway, that he only does that with me. And maybe I'm not being cautious enough, but I believe him. What am I saying, I have never really shown great judgment when it comes to him. The connection between us was so intense that before we met I was fantasizing about going bareback with him. And I've never been interested in that with a casual sex partner before (which was all I was looking for at the time).

So I guess despite the distance, he is making me feel more like a priority, which I really needed. I am feeling more like I have the capacity to be patient and wait, hard as it is when I want to see him so much.

Things are also better with H. My mom took our son for the weekend so we could have some alone time (not because of this, it was preplanned), and we had a wonderful time. It was like how life was when we were dating :) We went out to dinner on Friday night and flirted and just felt madly in love. Yesterday we went out for dinner (with a nice bottle of champagne) and a movie. It was just so nice.

Today kiddo came home and we had a nice Thanksgiving dinner. So all in all, things are looking up :)
 
It's funny how someone can tell you something over and over, and then finally it clicks in your head and makes sense even though you thought you understood before.

Someone posted this on another board I'm on and it just felt so poignant to me. "In the end, it's not the amount of time you spent together, but the quality of it. The best relationships could be only a few days or a week, and even that, not everyone is lucky enough to find it. Enjoy NRE, treat each other right, and let the rest of the story fall into place."

Even when I'm sad that I'm not seeing L, I have to remember that what we have is really special. I've had very intense chemistry with only a few men in my life. And they are all still in my life and very dear to me, whether we still have sex or not.

Maybe sometimes people do come into your life for a reason, and you need to treasure it. It's not all that common not to fight for it when things are tough.

I can only hope for many, many more days with both L & H, but in the meantime I can just keep reminding myself how lucky I am to have not one but two wonderful men who love me in my life.
 
Things have gotten a lot better with H and I as well. I am really proud of how far the two of us have come as a couple. When we met, we were just kids; I was 18 and he was 19. Neither of us had any idea how to handle a serious relationship, but we were drunk on love and damn well were going to do it anyway.

And it was awful. We had some terrible fights and said horrible things to each other. Any little issue would become a possible relationship ender because we just let things spiral out of control. Honestly, I'm still not sure why we didn't break up a dozen times in the 2nd-4th years of our relationship. First year of course was still the honeymoon phase.

Then in the fourth year, we got married. Something changed almost immediately. I can't really describe it. It's just like we instinctively KNEW that we had made a permanent commitment to each other so we had to change the way we related to each other in a fight. So, we started learning. We still had the occasional horrible fight, but it got a lot better. We learned to be nicer to each other, and to try to be fair. I wouldn't say our relationship was great then, but it got better.

Yesterday morning, we had a brief but ugly fight. We both took some time to cool off, and in the evening we went and sat on our couch and cuddled, and talked about our feelings. As usual, the reason we were fighting was that we were misunderstanding each other, and since we're both under stress and tired right now we allowed our old patterns to come back into play. When we thought about it, we realized we hadn't had an argument like that in more than a year. We just don't do that anymore. We've gotten so much better at communicating that we work on clarification rather than assumption.

So was the fight ugly? Yes, but it was literally less than ten minutes, and we handled it in such a productive way afterwards. It helped us both realize how far we've come and we agreed that we're proud of ourselves. We made our favourite dinner and cuddled up to watch a movie afterwards. Good times :)

H thinks that we just got lucky to have our relationship survive this long that we got to a place where we are really and truly happy with each other and getting our needs met. It's true that most couples who fall in love as young as we were don't work out, because they lack the same communication skills that we did. I still think that we each saw potential in the other to become what we have become now, and decided it was worth the investment. Did we get lucky? Hell yes. But I think we earned it, too.

I have a wonderful husband and I love him more than anything.
 
I did a bad, bad thing :( And now I feel awful, so I am trying to work out my feelings.

I'd actually been feeling pretty good lately. L and I hadn't had a lot of time to talk, but I was still feeling loved and valued so I was okay despite the fact it's been nearly 6 weeks since we've been together.

Then, for whatever reason, I did something bad. Why the fuck did I do it? I knew exactly how it would make me feel and I did it anyway. L's sub has her personal journal linked off FetLife and I haven't looked at it except once at the very beginning of L telling me he was seeing her. At that point I knew it was going to hurt and L suggested it was probably better that I not read it anyway. So I haven't looked at it since.

I still don't know why I felt the urge to do it today. But I did. And now I hurt like hell and I want to yell and scream and cry. I'm here because I want to actually try to work through my feelings rather than just be a big crying mess. What I really want to do is go upstairs to bed and cry. But I have my son home and can't really do that.

They saw each other FOUR times this week. That explains why I haven't been getting much time from him this week. And she wrote about an hour where they just lay together and cuddled... but no, I couldn't even stop there when I already felt like a mess. I had to see that they had their MFM when her fiance was in town. The one thing I had really wanted to do with him first.

So now I don't know what to do. I'm trying to calm down and remind myself that multiple relationships means that nothing he does with her takes away from what he has with me. He loves me and that's what matters. And it's not like he could have seen me on those four nights anyway because of the distance.

But yeah, I hurt. And I still feel like crying. And I'm sure he's going to be disappointed when he finds out I read her journal because their relationship is not any of my business and nothing is different from whether I read it or not so all it's doing is creating more stress. And public or not, I am violating his privacy.

And now would be a really awful time for me to tell me that I need attention from him because the renos are causing stress between him and his wife and the last thing he needs is crap from me too. So I recognize the need to just be supportive right now and wait, but that's hard for me.

And then I still have this thought worming up that I am glad that he got to see her and have some pleasure because I know things are really shitty for him right now and he deserves it. But it hurts that we can't be together right now and there is still so long to go.

Maybe I'm not cut out for poly. I'm sure as hell not cut out for LD. And this time I created the problem all by myself. In fact, there really isn't even a problem except in my head. He didn't do anything wrong. So why am I hurting?
 
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Still feeling a little messed up but I think that has more to do with not sleeping well than anything else. I'm actually proud of the way I managed my emotions the other day. I did not allow my negativity to snowball and ruin my day at home with H and son. I did not go and crawl into bed and cry and hide. I did email L and ask for generic reassurance that doing stuff with me is still special even if he does it with someone else. I haven't yet told him that I read her blog but he wasn't around all weekend. Hopefully we'll get to talk sometime soon. He did email me last night and tell me he misses me and he's sorry he hasn't been around.

I do a lot of thinking when I'm in bed and I figured I'd jot down a few of the things that were running through my head. I'm the kind of person who will replay potential future conversations in my head over and over and then sometimes never have them. But they do give me courage and help me figure out what to say when I do.

So how did I feel when I read those blog posts? Well, as is probably obvious from my last post, I got completely flooded and irrational. A big wave of negative feelings just overwhelmed me and I couldn't handle it. After I wrote here and was able to calm down a little, I tried to pick through everything and that made it a little less upsetting.

My first reaction was just a huge amount of envy. It doesn't matter that she is local and I'm LD when I'm not rational. I just feel sad and frustrated that she can see him three or four times a week and I haven't seen him in six. I want what she has, very badly.

And that led to insecurity. It's been a long time. The more time you spend with someone the more connected you get, so is it that unreasonable that I worry that his connection with her will deepen while mine gets more tenuous? He said to me in a chat recently that we meet different needs, that I am not the kind of person for a D/s relationship and she is not the kind of person to fall in love with. But what does that even mean??? He's told me before that he believes he can love many women but only be in love with his wife. So how exactly is this supposed to be reassuring? I know he has feelings for his sub.

Then I did feel some good feelings that things haven't been as shitty for him as I'd thought they'd been. Not that I ask a lot but when I did, he tells me he hasn't seen her in a few days. I guess I was asking at the wrong times.

I'm still sad that he had the MFM with her first. He told me months ago that he wanted to do it with me first. I'm sure he doesn't even remember. And of course I wouldn't expect him to turn down an opportunity to do something he really wants when who knows when we'll see each other again. But it still makes me sad that we didn't get to try it for the first time together. It takes away some of the specialness for me.

But, any rate, I might be a little down but I'm okay, and that's what matters. I'm glad I didn't dump all my flooded mess on him and instead worked on it myself, since I'm the one who made it.
 
I was struck by a couple things after reading your last few entries. I was thinking about conversations I had with my wife about "specialness ", "firsts", if there was or should be anything that we "keep just between us".

My question ...has your husband expressed some of the things that have you all twisted up with your Bf.


Also what will happen if and when your husband reads this blog or the other thread just like you read the BF's stuff and Sub's blog ?

And with the strict DADT in place I take it your husband was not going to be invited in the history making 3some. Was he aware of the plan ...and the person who would be getting the honor's ?
 
Thanks for commenting. I appreciate knowing that someone is reading and might have some insight for me.

My H and I are not DADT. L and his wife are, and yes it's strict. My H prefers I keep the emotional details to myself, but we talk about L sometimes, often in bed. The intent was to have MFM with H and L. I don't think that anything could be better than having hot threesome sex with two men I love, who both love me. That sounds totally incredible. Both tell me they are up for it. They're both straight but we discussed potential contact and they aren't too worried about it; but it's going to be all about me :) H and I have had some incredibly hot intense sex with him telling me what it will be like when L is there with us, too.

If we do it, anyway. I do still have some vestigial negative feelings about L doing it first with his sub. He and I talked last night and I told him what I did. Unsurprisingly, he wasn't too happy about it, but I apologized for violating his privacy and told him I wouldn't do it again. He told me I have some stuff mixed up in my head and that's probably why I am so out of sorts. He tells me that he doesn't see her nearly as often as I think he does (like every two weeks, not multiple times for week), and that he categorizes it almost like a relationship of convenience. He says it's for kink and sex; it's not love like what we have.

I just wish I could see him. I think that would help a lot. 6 weeks and counting.

I don't have to worry about H reading a blog. Not only is he not the message board type, but he and I are pretty open about discussing issues. If he wanted to read it, there is nothing here I would be uncomfortable with him seeing. He would prefer not to know details about my emotions for L, so I doubt he'd come here even if I told him where it was. He knows I am in love with L and that L loves me. He knows L is an incredible sex partner. But he also knows that I love him and my life with him, and that I'm not going anywhere. Last night while I was chatting with L on IM, H came upstairs and cuddled with me in bed. I told him that I was talking to L but only for about twenty minutes more and then I'd be all his. He was fine with it and stayed for a few minutes with me.

On the other hand, L might find this at some point. I don't know if he would go looking for it, but I'm not going to send the link. If he does, I doubt he'll read anything that I wouldn't tell him. I've been trying to keep that promise I made to him to be completely open and honest about things, so it's not like there are any secrets here. It sucked telling him that I read his sub's blog because I knew he'd be upset and I felt awful about it (both reading it and the act of reading it), but I didn't want to lie to him.

H is seriously not the jealous type. Just not something that bothers him. He struggled a little when he had to actually see that I am in love with L since I got so messed up a couple of weeks ago, but he tells me he is fine now. I have done my best to continue to feed his security and lovedness, and to remind him that I am still the same person I was before. I think that has helped a lot.

H and I haven't had a conversation about specialness and stuff, and I guess I didn't think there was anything we should keep between us. So I don't know why it's bothering me about L. It's not that I didn't want him to do it with her at all. I just wanted us to experience it as a first together. Actually, that is the reason why I want H involved in the MFM I think. I do want us to experience that as a first together. I had wanted it to be all three of us... but now I can't have that.
 
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Vicki, I feel for you. I've done things like that (reading stuff I know I shouldn't - it's not really snooping because its publicly out there, but you KNOW that the info will be disturbing or hurtful, and you still do it! It's the main reason I'm not FB friends with my one lover, MrBrown. I don;t see him very often, which is his choice, not mine, and follwing his activities on FB would be torture for me. But I have been tempted... )

You say that you don't know why you did it. I think it would be good to examine the reason behind the action.. look deep inside yourself and try to figure out why you did it. Is it jealousy? insecurity? a way to connect with him because you haven't seen him for so long? Only you can find the answers, and I think they could be useful in dealing with what are obviously issues in your relationship with him.

I have to say that this:

Then I did feel some good feelings that things haven't been as shitty for him as I'd thought they'd been. Not that I ask a lot but when I did, he tells me he hasn't seen her in a few days. I guess I was asking at the wrong times.

worries me a little (mostly in combination with the fact that he sort of asked you wether you had read his blog, lately.). Is it a possibility, in your mind, that he lies to you? Even if this is only a subconscious fear, this could be the very reason you looked up her blog.. to look for confirmation of a possible lie.

There are many aspects about this relationship that are not the way you want them to be. I think that your reading her blog was maybe an attempt to gain some control, through getting more information about him and his life, the life that is taking place without you.
 
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