New unofficial open relationship, dealing with the emotional pain and jealousy

fiftyeight

New member
Hello, my story is as follows:

I have been dreaming of an open relationship for the last 5 years or so, I am pretty reluctant to be in an exclusive relationship in the long term mostly because I feel I haven't experienced as much as I want to, and I am a bit addicted to the excitement of meeting and hooking up with new women.

An open relationship sounded quite ideal to me as you still have a primary girlfriend who you enjoy an emotional relationship which is very deep, but you can still enjoy "just sex" with other girls, and experience new sexual adventures.

My previous girlfriend did not want to hae an open relationship and we were in an exlusive relationship for some time, this ended partly because of my desire to meet new women.

Now I met a new girl, which i liek a lot and have feelings for her, we've been dating for 2 months and haven't put any label on what we have.
About 1 month in she insinuated that she doesn't want me to be with other women, she said something like "If you were kissing another girl at that party, I would be hurt" or something of this nature. I said I would as well, but I wouldn't be angry and she could get together with other guys.
I hoped somewhere that she will get with another guy and that would lead to an open relatioship between us.
i reminded her quite often that i am okay with her being with other guys, and that I might be with other women.

Last week she actually did it, she had sex with one of her male friends, they have been flirting for some time and I did feel she wants to do it, and told her it was alright with me. She asked how I would react, and I told her that I would not enjoy hearing it, but I wouldn't be angry and I would accept it.
However, since she told me about it, I am quite devestated and find it hard to deal with the emotional pain and jealousy.
I have tried to analyze my feelings and have come up with some reasons for my emotional pain:
1. The sex she had with the guy was not good for her, she was stressed, in pain and he was too "rough". I have images in my head of hear being in pain and him continuing the sex anyway. Apparently she did not tell him she was in pain, so he can't really be blamed much, but the image in my mind keeps popping up.
2. I asked her in a completely calm way (I was not angry at all when she told me about it and was completely calm, but wanted to understand what caused it to happen) why she did it. She responds mostly "I don't know" and "It just happened". It annoys me a bit bcs it indicated a lack of self-control and self awareness, which are needed in any relationship IMO, including an open one, as such a relationship should still have some ground rules I believe.
3. She says she felt like she was cheating, which is part of the reason she was stressed. Of course I don't feel like this is cheating, as I allowed her to do it. But in her mind she was cheating, and she still went through with it, which makes me question if she would be faithful to any rules we make up for the open relationship, or in an exclusive relationship if we choose to have one in the future.

Beyond this there is the overwhelming feeling of jealousy due to another guy pleasuring her / having sex with her, and not feeling as special as I felt previously. Before I felt like she is so infatuated with me and it made me feel very special.

As of the moment we have talked about it and we can both see other people, but we also acknowledge we have feelings for each other. Which is pretty much an open relationship as I perceive it.
I don't know how to deal with all this, I am questioning my idea of having an open relationship, the emotional pain is quite strong.

I am looking for any advice at this point.
Thank you.
 
I have been dreaming of an open relationship for the last 5 years or so

Have you explicitly discussed what you mean by "open relationship"? That can cover all manner of arrangements and I suggest you be way more specific.

Sex only but you can do it with anyone anytime?
Sex and romantic relationships but only with specific permission?
Let each other live your lives without attempting to restrict or monitor each other?​

There are many different ways to approach this. Since you seem new to this and are kind of all over the place emotionally I recommend taking the guess work out of it and actually be clear on what you mean when you say you want this kind of relationship.

You may have already done this, but since you didn't mention it specifically I thought I'd give you that heads up.

About 1 month in she insinuated that she doesn't want me to be with other women, she said something like "If you were kissing another girl at that party, I would be hurt" or something of this nature. I said I would as well, but I wouldn't be angry and she could get together with other guys.
I hoped somewhere that she will get with another guy and that would lead to an open relatioship between us.
i reminded her quite often that i am okay with her being with other guys, and that I might be with other women.

I'm totally confused with what is going on.

She said she didn't want you hooking up with other women.
You said you wouldn't want her hooking up with other guys, but that you'd be totally ok with it.​

...what?

I asked her in a completely calm way (I was not angry at all when she told me about it and was completely calm, but wanted to understand what caused it to happen) why she did it. She responds mostly "I don't know" and "It just happened". It annoys me a bit bcs it indicated a lack of self-control and self awareness, which are needed in any relationship IMO, including an open one, as such a relationship should still have some ground rules I believe.

Again, totally confused.

You told her that you'd be ok with her hooking up with a guy.
She hooked up with a guy.
You asked her why she did it​

...what? She did it with your full knowledge and consent, I'm confused as to this whole line of questioning.

It sounds like the two of you are bumbling and crashing your way into a possibly open but totally confused relationship. I suggest calming way down and having an explicit discussion about what your actual expectations are.

This hinting, winking, and nudging is going to continue to give each of you these guilt ridden, jealousy induced situations.

She says she felt like she was cheating, which is part of the reason she was stressed. Of course I don't feel like this is cheating, as I allowed her to do it. But in her mind she was cheating, and she still went through with it, which makes me question if she would be faithful to any rules we make up for the open relationship, or in an exclusive relationship if we choose to have one in the future.

This is likely just her social training pushing back. She was given explicit "go ahead" from you so she knew, intellectually, that she was not cheating. This "feeling" is probably just a shame instinct because she feels she isn't supposed to be doing that kind of thing.

I would avoid drawing any grand conclusions from this.

I am questioning my idea of having an open relationship, the emotional pain is quite strong.

Many of us have grown up in a society which encourages jealousy and competitiveness. Breaking from these norms can cause all manner of feelings we aren't used to dealing with in an adult manner.

Check out the golden nuggets forum in the Introduction area. There is quite a bit of info there about dealing with jealousy.
 
Sounds like you had a sexual fantasy that went wrong when you tried it out. Chalk it up to experience and stick to monogamy. Fantasy doesn't have to be reality.
 
Have you explicitly discussed what you mean by "open relationship"? That can cover all manner of arrangements and I suggest you be way more specific.
Sex only but you can do it with anyone anytime? Sex and romantic relationships but only with specific permission? Let each other live your lives without attempting to restrict or monitor each other?​
There are many different ways to approach this. Since you seem new to this and are kind of all over the place emotionally I recommend taking the guess work out of it and actually be clear on what you mean when you say you want this kind of relationship. You may have already done this, but since you didn't mention it specifically I thought I'd give you that heads up.

What I have in mind at the moment is one "romantic" relationship, i.e have a girlfriend who I have strong feelings for and her for me, but we are allowed to have sex with other people. I had in mind that we would be able to do it with anyone, with some exceptions like mutual friends and family, and that we tell each other when it happens. I also like the idea of having threesomes and inviting other ppl to have sex with us both, though we haven't done that yet (but she does seem open to the idea.) Another idea I had recently is to limit how much sex you can have with a specific person, so you do not get too involved with someone outside the open relationship, not sure what the limit would be exactly and whether this is a good idea.

I'm totally confused with what is going on.
She said she didn't want you hooking up with other women. You said you wouldn't want her hooking up with other guys, but that you'd be totally ok with it.​
...what? Again, totally confused.

I don't remember the exact wording, but we have talked about it several times since then. The idea is that I do not enjoy it when she gets with other guys, at it does cause some emotional pain / jealousy, but I still allow her to do this, both because it makes her happy and because I want to be able to do it myself. For her it is a similar situation, she says she will get jealous / feel emotional pain, but she will not be angry at me. It's similar to going for a business trip for a month, it is quite painful for both as you will miss each other a lot, but you know in the long run it will be worth it, in this example due to the financial gain e.g Mainly I expect that after a couple of times it happens, the emotional pain will subside.

You told her that you'd be ok with her hooking up with a guy. She hooked up with a guy. You asked her why she did it​
...what? She did it with your full knowledge and consent, I'm confused as to this whole line of questioning.

I asked her just to know where she was coming from. I wanted to know she did it because she wanted to. And not for example to make me jealous, or because he forced her in some way. In the way she answered it, it is not really clear if she really wanted to do it, it sounds like she was guilt ridden the whole time but could not get herself to stop. I would feel better IMO if she just knew she wanted to do it and have done it with confidence.

It sounds like the two of you are bumbling and crashing your way into a possibly open but totally confused relationship. I suggest calming way down and having an explicit discussion about what your actual expectations are. This hinting, winking, and nudging is going to continue to give each of you these guilt ridden, jealousy induced situations.

Yes, I guess we must have a proper talk about this I don't really want to put the label "open relationship" on it, due to the "taboo" nature of such a relationship. I think it would be easier for her if we stick without a label for now, though laying some ground rules does sound like a good idea.

This is likely just her social training pushing back. She was given explicit "go ahead" from you so she knew, intellectually, that she was not cheating. This "feeling" is probably just a shame instinct because she feels she isn't supposed to be doing that kind of thing. 1 I would avoid drawing any grand conclusions from this.

Yeah this sounds right

Many of us have grown up in a society which encourages jealousy and competitiveness. Breaking from these norms can cause all manner of feelings we aren't used to dealing with in an adult manner. Check out the golden nuggets forum in the Introduction area. There is quite a bit of info there about dealing with jealousy.

Do you mean http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1830I ? Because I didn't see any article about how to deal with jealousy there. guess the biggest thing I need to understand is what it means when a woman has sex with another man. Does it reflect at all on you and on how she feels for you. And just understand where the feeling of jealousy is coming from
 
The only way the two of you will achieve the type of non monogamy you want is by sticking to Nsa swinging environments
 
Welcome to where the rubber hits the road my friend. Ideals vs Reality. It is indeed a sobering wake up call. The pain and judgement you are feeling is completely normal, the human condition in my opinion. I would have to agree that what would suit your "ideals" as stated above would be the NSA FWB type arrangements. Polyamory is much more than sex, although a lot of people are drawn to the concept by the promise of more sexual partners.

There is so much more to it than that. Be promiscuous and non attached if you want that lifestyle, without all the emotional repercussions. Or do the work to deconstruct your jealousy / possessive / monogamist mentality. Just applying the lingo doesn't make it happen. You have to apply the concepts, and find the right kind of people to do that with to have successful multiple relationships. It is a journey my friend, a long and somewhat painful one, but one that will lead you to a greater understanding of yourself and your heart and emotions if your are to undertake it.

Communication is key. With yourself most importantly. It can be incredibly simple, but in my experience to get there you need to get those big boy pants on and do the work, with grace and humility and a desire for change and growth.

Good luck :)
 
I think FWB leaves to much room for romantic feelings to develop. Particularly in someone who doesn't necessarily want to prohibit them outside the dyad.

Best to stick to straight fucking random strangers.
 
What I have in mind at the moment is one "romantic" relationship, i.e have a girlfriend who I have strong feelings for and her for me, but we are allowed to have sex with other people. I had in mind that we would be able to do it with anyone, with some exceptions like mutual friends and family, and that we tell each other when it happens. I also like the idea of having threesomes and inviting other ppl to have sex with us both, though we haven't done that yet (but she does seem open to the idea.) Another idea I had recently is to limit how much sex you can have with a specific person, so you do not get too involved with someone outside the open relationship, not sure what the limit would be exactly and whether this is a good idea.

This is decidedly not polyamory. It is non-monogamy, I imagine most folks would classify it as something closer to swinging.

Swingers seem to enjoy swinging quite a bit but there is a built in problem, in my opinion. It is this idea that a person can be friendly with someone, and have sex with that person, and somehow guarantee that they won't develop these "romantic" feelings for them. Some people can do it apparently, but given the right kind of chemistry and circumstances I don't imagine anyone can hold out forever. Emotional chemistry isn't something that's planned, it just happens.

I have heard a hilarious list of rules over the years intended to keep romance from happening between playmates. Personally I think it is all in effort to keep partners from dealing with their insecurity about their mate having romantic feelings for another person. I say, don't restrict your loved ones in service to your own shortcomings.

Also, have you told her exactly what you said in this quote? If you haven't, I suggest you do that post haste.

I expect that after a couple of times it happens, the emotional pain will subside.

That is what I consider growth: encounter a challenge and learn to work through it.

I would feel better IMO if she just knew she wanted to do it and have done it with confidence.

I get what you're saying, but she needs to work on her comfort level and you need to work on yours. It's good to talk about it so long as each of you remembers that you are responsible for your own feelings.

Yes, I guess we must have a proper talk about this I don't really want to put the label "open relationship" on it, due to the "taboo" nature of such a relationship. I think it would be easier for her if we stick without a label for now, though laying some ground rules does sound like a good idea.

A label is general and means different things to different people so they are really no helpful at this stage. I suggest focusing on actual expectations like you listed out in the beginning of this post. *That* is what needs to be defined and clearly communicated... worry about which label is most appropriate after you've covered the ground that actually matters.

Do you mean http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1830I ? Because I didn't see any article about how to deal with jealousy there. guess the biggest thing I need to understand is what it means when a woman has sex with another man. Does it reflect at all on you and on how she feels for you. And just understand where the feeling of jealousy is coming from

You've got the right page, just scroll down and look for the word "jealousy". Also there is a search function at the top of the page which can provide you with more reading material than you can possibly get through.

Jealousy is a fear based response to an unknown future. It is essentially assuming that you are not good enough to "deserve" love and that your partner will ditch you for something better. It's usually just pessimistic self talk unless there is actually evidence to suggest that your premonition is correct.
 
I have heard a hilarious list of rules over the years intended to keep romance from happening between playmates.

You mean this? :)

"What I have in mind at the moment is one "romantic" relationship, i.e have a girlfriend who I have strong feelings for and her for me, but we are allowed to have sex with other people. I had in mind that we would be able to do it with anyone, with some exceptions like mutual friends and family, and that we tell each other when it happens. I also like the idea of having threesomes and inviting other ppl to have sex with us both, though we haven't done that yet (but she does seem open to the idea.) Another idea I had recently is to limit how much sex you can have with a specific person, so you do not get too involved with someone outside the open relationship, not sure what the limit would be exactly and whether this is a good idea."

I'd smack any man or woman who thought they could impose rules like that on me.
 
You mean this? :)

"What I have in mind at the moment is one "romantic" relationship, i.e have a girlfriend who I have strong feelings for and her for me, but we are allowed to have sex with other people. I had in mind that we would be able to do it with anyone, with some exceptions like mutual friends and family, and that we tell each other when it happens. I also like the idea of having threesomes and inviting other ppl to have sex with us both, though we haven't done that yet (but she does seem open to the idea.) Another idea I had recently is to limit how much sex you can have with a specific person, so you do not get too involved with someone outside the open relationship, not sure what the limit would be exactly and whether this is a good idea."

I'd smack any man or woman who thought they could impose rules like that on me.

I don't think his rules are inherently unreasonable. They are only unreasonable when you think about it in the context of polyamory. If a swinger couple had these rules, they wouldn't be unreasonable at all.

Remember, for many people, the idea of actually full on loving two people is completely alien. Even though they know swinging is sex with other people and polyamory is sort of more than sex with other people, they still think it is a subset of monogamy. Not consciously, mind, but they still base it on the idea that there is only one "real/proper/serious/committed/loving" relationship and the rest are absent of that "real/proper/serious/committed/loving" aspect. It's not because they haven't understood the words they've heard/read about it, it's because their brain doesn't quite allow them to believe that you can love more than one person "properly" at the same time.

And that's true for some people. They can't love "properly" unless they are in a monoamorous relationship at the least. And some of those people can never feel "properly" loved in the absence of monoamory either.
 
What I have in mind at the moment is one "romantic" relationship, i.e have a girlfriend who I have strong feelings for and her for me, but we are allowed to have sex with other people. I had in mind that we would be able to do it with anyone, with some exceptions like mutual friends and family, and that we tell each other when it happens. I also like the idea of having threesomes and inviting other ppl to have sex with us both, though we haven't done that yet (but she does seem open to the idea.) Another idea I had recently is to limit how much sex you can have with a specific person, so you do not get too involved with someone outside the open relationship, not sure what the limit would be exactly and whether this is a good idea.

You realize that no matter how much or how little sex is had outside the designated relationship, either she or you can still develop feelings for others?

Your intent seems to be to have outside sex to spice up your primary relationship. This does go closer to swinging than poly. And even there -- I'd advise being careful on emotional grounds. Having been the HBB to fulfill someone's threesome fantasies, I can say it's no fun at all to be treated as a sex toy even by friends, even with those I had no desire to develop a deeper relationship. (Others' mileage may vary.) You're dealing with people, and people can be hurt.

I don't remember the exact wording, but we have talked about it several times since then. The idea is that I do not enjoy it when she gets with other guys, at it does cause some emotional pain / jealousy, but I still allow her to do this, both because it makes her happy and because I want to be able to do it myself. For her it is a similar situation, she says she will get jealous / feel emotional pain, but she will not be angry at me. It's similar to going for a business trip for a month, it is quite painful for both as you will miss each other a lot, but you know in the long run it will be worth it, in this example due to the financial gain e.g Mainly I expect that after a couple of times it happens, the emotional pain will subside.

This just seems odd to me. She and you both know you'll feel pain if she has sex with someone else. You and she both know she'll feel pain if you have sex with someone else.

I am puzzled why either of you would pursue something knowing it will cause pain to each other. Indeed, you might desensitize to it eventually. But if all you're going for is sex outside the main pairing, is it really worth it? How much overall happiness would be gained?
 
I don't think his rules are inherently unreasonable. They are only unreasonable when you think about it in the context of polyamory. If a swinger couple had these rules, they wouldn't be unreasonable at all.

I'm usually way too hard on people :) Still, I get this "ick" feeling whenever I think of trying to control someone's sex life/romantic feelings. Don't get me wrong; I won't date people who don't have standards in this (No unprotected sex with untrusted people, none night stands, etc.) But I don't want to have to impose them. I'd rather date someone who had similar values to myself.
 
I'd smack any man or woman who thought they could impose rules like that on me.

Clearly I find the mere suggestion of me adjusting how I act in order to preserve my partners ability to avoid dealing with their emotional issues preposterous. It's even more hilarious when the restriction involves what I should or shouldn't do with my dick! Fortunately the world doesn't have to live by my values.

This idea of limiting how much sex his partner can have in effort to avoid any romantic feeling is something I've heard before. I've also heard rules about kissing on the mouth, about having sex with the same person on contiguous occasions, saying "goodnight" to me last, only sleeping in my bed, the ever-present VETO... etc. The lengths people will go is pretty funny to me but that's because I don't view controlling my loved ones as a rational response to my personal issues.

Having said that, I get that this is a natural step for a lot of people. We really are pretty well conditioned to be possessive regarding our partners, it can take superhuman effort to break from it and most rarely do. So, if trying to put up walls is how people want to do it then... hell what do I know, knock yourself out.
 
I'm usually way too hard on people :) Still, I get this "ick" feeling whenever I think of trying to control someone's sex life/romantic feelings. Don't get me wrong; I won't date people who don't have standards in this (No unprotected sex with untrusted people, none night stands, etc.) But I don't want to have to impose them. I'd rather date someone who had similar values to myself.
Probably a seperate thread but how do you know it will be a one night stand? I mean, s/he just might not call despite you thinking your chemistry was amazing.

Does that mean that it would be unacceptable to have sex with someone the day you met them? If that isn't the rule/standard you set, then surely it leaves you open to having one night stands because you can't control whether they'll want to keep in contact afterwards.
 
Probably a seperate thread but how do you know it will be a one night stand? I mean, s/he just might not call despite you thinking your chemistry was amazing.

Does that mean that it would be unacceptable to have sex with someone the day you met them? If that isn't the rule/standard you set, then surely it leaves you open to having one night stands because you can't control whether they'll want to keep in contact afterwards.

Hmmm, perhaps it does deserve a thread, but I'll answer here :) Well, you can't ever know, and I've definitely had one night stands, and intimacy on the first date...but see, that's why it's not a rule for me. It's a standard. With my current partner, we play sometimes, but casual flings are almost ALWAYS together; it's half the fun for us. In three years, he's had one sexual encounter outside of me in three years; I've had two (and only one was a one night stand, the other was a regular partner who eventually parted ways). It would be unacceptable for me, or him, to sleep with someone, without protection, the first night. And it would be unacceptable for me to date someone who dated a lot, and was prone to intimacy the first night (for various reasons).
 
Ok, without protection is one thing, but the whole no one night stands thing sounds really vague and easy to break.
 
And it would be unacceptable for me to date someone who dated a lot, and was prone to intimacy the first night (for various reasons).
Hmmm, many people date "a lot" (how frequent that is, I don't know, since "a lot" is subjective and very vague) and yet they don't fuck all the people they date, or don't fuck their dates very often at all. They just go on dates to meet people and do fun things, not necessarily have sex with them. So, basically, you don't want to be with people who have social lives and enjoy going out with others "often?"

And how would you know someone is "prone" to fuck on a first date? Sometimes these things happen and they are out of the ordinary for that person. Or, you could meet someone who delays fucking you for a few dates and that is out of the ordinary for them. So, for that part, it seems to me that it would be more accurate to say you don't want to fuck on a first date and will only do it after you get to know them better, and you only want to date people who are willing to wait.
 
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Hmmm, many people date "a lot" (how frequent that is, I don't know, since "a lot" is subjective and very vague) and yet they don't fuck all the people they date, or don't fuck their dates very often at all. They just go on dates to meet people and do fun things, not necessarily have sex with them. So, basically, you don't want to be with people who have social lives and enjoy going out with others "often?"

And how would you know someone is "prone" to fuck on a first date? Sometimes these things happen and they are out of the ordinary for that person. Or, you could meet someone who delays fucking you for a few dates and that is out of the ordinary for them. So, for that part, it seems to me that it would be more accurate to say you don't want to fuck on a first date and will only do it after you get to know them better, and you only want to date people who are willing to wait.

I probably wasn't very clear, my bad. I'm in my twenties and usually date people in their twenties. Most of my friends, people I meet are very frank about whether they're looking to settle down or whether they just want to date. Usually what happens is I'll just ask, What are you looking for? And if they say they are dating four or five people, looking for fun, I just don't pursue anything with them. They don't care; they don't have any feelings for me and are happy to casually date their own partners. That rarely ends the friendship; we still hang out. We just don't have sex or attempt to build a romantic relationship.

Why would I not want to be friends with social people? That doesn't make any sense at all. Not every relationship has to be romantic.

Also, especially since I only try to date poly people; they're also very frank about whether they fuck on the first date. Or wait till they have deeper feelings. No one's ever told me they felt judged by the question; they're glad to have it out in the open.

So, I just date those who are looking for more serious relationships and are okay with waiting (by that same token, if they date others, they're probably going to want something serious and wait with them, as well).
 
Jealousy is a fear based response to an unknown future. It is essentially assuming that you are not good enough to "deserve" love and that your partner will ditch you for something better. It's usually just pessimistic self talk unless there is actually evidence to suggest that your premonition is correct.

I would also add that jealousy is based on false assumptions such as:

Love is finite, so that if my main squeeze loves another s/he loves me less.
If my main squeeze loves another, there I something wrong with me.

It sounds like you logically realize the fallacies, but our emotions have often been programmed differently than our ability to reason.
 
I would also add that jealousy is based on false assumptions such as:

Love is finite, so that if my main squeeze loves another s/he loves me less.
If my main squeeze loves another, there I something wrong with me.

It sounds like you logically realize the fallacies, but our emotions have often been programmed differently than our ability to reason.

Well i do realize the fallacies to some level, but I think that even logically I still think that letting her be with other man increases the chance that she leaves me. But OTOH I also logicallt realize that the more freedom I give her, the happier she will be. It's about finding some balance I guess.

When I wrote about restricting how much sex we can have with outside partners, I wasn't that sure about this.
I definitely realize that you cannot control whether you will develop emotions, and I am willing to take the risk that she will develop feelings for someone else.
I guess you just need to learn to recognize whether those feelings are just temporary excitement or something real. I realize she might develop something real and stronger then what we have with someone else, but also am willing to take that risk.
When I say "something real", I mean she may find someone she realized emotionally/logically she will be happy with in the long term.
So again, I am not at all sure about the restricting sex thing, it was just an idea.

And yes, the leftover resistance is mainly emotional, in the last two days I actually feel much better as I have talked about this with a close friend and it helped me get it off my chest. I didn't really tell her how bad I felt, because she was dealing with the guilt anyway and didn't want to make it harder for her, I still feel that in time this will subside and that an open relationship (some version of it) is something I want to try.
 
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