Mono? Insecure? Something Else?

willowstar

New member
I could use some advice and perspective right now. Thank you in advance for reading. :)

My husband and I are still doing our best to navigate the poly world. He is very insecure. Very. To the point that I sometimes come home to a puddle. He cannot really pinpoint what his specific triggers are. I think he is mono. He is not sure, he considers it possible, but I think he just cant fathom that I get to "have someone else" and he doesnt...

He is convinced that getting a GF for himself will solve his insecurity issue, because then he has someone else also, someone to give him some time and attention. I have tried to (gently) explain to him that this is not a good solution and he needs to figure out what is really going on for him.

Add to all this, I have stepped back from our physical relationship for my own reasons, which include a history of being sexual to keep the peace or to make other people happy. (not just in this relationship, but for most of my life over many relationships). This is an issue for him, because our physical connection is one of the only things that has been soothing to his fears, and helps him to feel like we are still connected. For the reasons stated above, I realize this behavior is triggering for me, because I would come home from being on a date with BF and feel "obligated" to be sexual with husband so he didnt feel "left out". Now that sex has been taken off the table, we have been unable to find other ways for him to feel like we are still connected and in a good place. He constantly feels rejected and as though "He doesnt belong in my life"...

I, on the other hand, feel as though some pressure has been removed. I am feeling like things are more "normal" for us. We went from having sex a few times per month to a few times per week, lickety split. It is more than my libido can handle right now.

Needless to day, I am painfully aware that this is an unhealthy relationship dynamic. I have utilized all of my current poly resources to no avail, and we are still in the same place we were 7 months ago when I fell in love with BF.

We have an appointment with a counselor next week to begin therapy, which we probably should have done months ago. We will do what we can to try and save our marriage. I am hoping she will have some new tricks for us.

Support and ideas welcome. Thank You

Willow, who is feeling very much like an unsuccessful poly person these days...
 
While I would never say you should do something out of obligation, I can certainly see why hubby is feeling left out. True he may need to come to terms with his issues, but you are out getting attention from your bf while he is alone, AND he now feels he has no connection with you due to the lack of sex (from his perspective).

Actually, I do understand the logic that he might feel differently if he too had a gf. Reason? Because without having that experience, how does he know for sure you still love him the same? However, did he have a gf, he would have the experience of finding out that doing so did not change his feelings for you - or if it did that he is probably mono.

While there are those who are able to see themselves as individuals and conduct themselves from that perspective, it is rare and it takes practice. Many see themselves in terms of their relationships and in those cases can be very attuned to the concept of equity.
 
Willow, who is feeling very much like an unsuccessful poly person these days...

Sounds like you are a very good poly person who is unfortunately struggling with how to deal with a partner who is not poly friendly.

You are living your life, giving reasonable advice, and trying to be flexible in finding a solution without compromising who you are.

He cannot really pinpoint what his specific triggers are...We have an appointment with a counselor next week to begin therapy

Couples therapy is good for a very specific range of issues and can address them in a "workshop" type format. Really all it can do is address communication issues in its various forms. As far as I have seen, however, couples therapy can do precisely dick to work with specific personality or worldview issues.

It is unlikely to be "therapy" in that you delve into issues to find the root problem motivations and outlooks and work to find new and positive outlets. That is what happens in intensive therapy which excludes family and other loved ones. That shit needs to be taken seriously and the presence of the subject matter at the therapy does nothing but clog the gears. I'm sure this is not the case with all couples therapy but for this to be incorrect you would be dealing with an extraordinary couples therapist.

I tell you this because anyone who regularly collapses into a "puddle" because someone else is on a date... be havin' issues. These issues need to be seriously looked at by an impartial therapist who is not going to take sides or figure out who to blame.

He is convinced that getting a GF for himself will solve his insecurity issue, because then he has someone else also, someone to give him some time and attention. I have tried to (gently) explain to him that this is not a good solution and he needs to figure out what is really going on for him.

Yes, because he really sounds like he's ready to "date". I really hope he doesn't find any impressionable people who are desperate enough to date a person who is an emotional catastrophe like he is.

You are obviously correct; getting a date is just about the farthest from what he or his poor date could need.

He constantly feels rejected and as though "He doesnt belong in my life"...

Not to put too fine a point on it but... does he?
 
Originally Posted by willowstar View Post
He constantly feels rejected and as though "He doesnt belong in my life"...
Not to put too fine a point on it but... does he?

I thought the same thing plus - does he belong in HIS OWN life, too?
 
Whats the incentive to being in your life ? Feeling left out ....you are rejecting him sexually. You've made a choice not to have sex with him and made a choice to have sex with the bf. Your needs are being met.

Do you want a roomate husband. A sexless marriage? Who wants to save the marriage you or him ?...and why ?
 
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Have you read the "5 Love Languages" book? I've found it extremely helpful when communicating with my partner about the reasons behind some of my needs. I'm a "Quality Time / Physical Touch" person, and some of what you've written about your husband seems to indicate that maybe he leans heavily in those directions as well (even if they aren't his primary languages).

My point is, if he defines love through those languages, look at what you're "telling" him - he has less time with you, and no physical intimacy. If those activities are what help him feel loved, then yes, he's going to feel like love is being withheld if those activities are "taken away".

It might be good (if you still want to remain non-physical for now) to read the book and learn what EACH OTHER'S languages are, so you can start to understand not only what each other wants, but how you both EXPRESS love.

I do have to agree with DingedHeart above - your needs WITHIN YOUR MARRIAGE may not be met at the moment, but you have other outlets for your intimacy. Your husband does not. He's CRAVING it right now, hence the desire for another GF. If he wants time and intimacy and you can't give it to him, how can this be resolved without him feeling that another GF can help? That might be a question worth exploring with him.
 
Whats the incentive to being in your life ? Feeling left out ....you are rejecting him sexually. You've made a choice not to have sex with him and made a choice to have sex with the bf. Your needs are being met.

Do you want a roomate husband. A sexless marriage? Who wants to save the marriage you or him ?...and why ?

Actually, I am not having sex with anyone, husband or boyfriend. The only one meeting my needs these days is me. :)

BF and I have not had intercourse. We have had a few dates where things got closer, but his wife is not ok with that and I am not going to subject my husband to that while he is having so much trouble dealing with just what he already has on his plate. BF and I do a little bit of sexting with each other, but that is it.

Have you read the "5 Love Languages" book? I've found it extremely helpful when communicating with my partner about the reasons behind some of my needs. I'm a "Quality Time / Physical Touch" person, and some of what you've written about your husband seems to indicate that maybe he leans heavily in those directions as well (even if they aren't his primary languages).

My point is, if he defines love through those languages, look at what you're "telling" him - he has less time with you, and no physical intimacy. If those activities are what help him feel loved, then yes, he's going to feel like love is being withheld if those activities are "taken away".


YouAreHere, yes I have gone to the website but have not read the whole book. He is very much a Gift person with strong leanings for Physical Touch as well. I am aware that not giving him this right now is hard for him. I am also having a problem with the amount of touch he wants. We had entered a pattern where I was his pacifier, and sex with me making things okay, for a day or two. But I have some real issues with this. It's not like its a fetish where one or both of us gets off on it. If it was, that would be better, and more manageable.

Truth is it was over the top for me. He was always trying to french kiss me in front of our kids, in the grocery store, always ogling me when I was getting dressed, that sort of thing. Which are not really big deals, but I am not big on PDA, and those are things he should know about me. His boundaries were becoming inappropriate, and so I felt as though it was important, for our relationship to survive, for me to set the boundaries more clearly, and ask him to just STOP. Even after telling him that sex was off the table for a little while, he continued to try and touch my breasts, put his hands on my ass, and basically just disregard entirely everything I was asking him to do. I told him clearly that I was not doing this as punishment, that I needed to get some perspective on what was going on for me, but I really feel as though he did not take me seriously. That if he just played enough, I would get a little turned on and just give in. I finally had to make it abundantly clear that he was NOT allowed to give me any kind of sexual touch whatsoever unless I had specifically invited him. Which to many people may seem over the top. But he WAS NOT respecting my limits. And even people for whom Touch is their primary love language have to respect the limits of their partners.

Also, he was a puddle long before I took sex off the table., He has been a puddle since day 1. I have held back from being poly for our entire relationship because I knew he couldnt handle it. That was really my big mistake... But now we have kids and responsibilities to them, and we would really like to keep our family intact if we can. He says he wants to embrace it, and there are times when he feels true compersion for us, he gives my BF gifts from time to time (he often will give people things he had found at Salvation Army or the like to let them know he is thinking of them), they talk on Facebook a few times a week. He LIKES him, as a person. He just struggles so much with his personal stuff.

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate all of the perspectives. For me, the reality is learning how different we really are, and realizing that if we cannot work things out we are affecting a lot of people including children.

Willow
 
My advice-tell him to come on here and talk.
Written from your perspective-my advice would be the same as above. Read the love languages book.
Couples therapy will go nowhere until individual issues are addressed.

Sex-Maca is a physical touch person. Without it he can't function in a relationship.
GG is a quality time. Without it he can't function.
I am a quality time person.
But-that doesnt make it reasonable for me to tell Maca to "deal" with the fact that I dont need physical touch as much as he does to feel love.
Loving him means making the effort to show him love as he needs it.
Likewise-he needs to show his love for me as I need it etc.

Maca too felt he would be more ok with poly if he found a gf. After 2 yrs of drama-infused explosions he accepted that he isnt ready for another relationship. He started focusing on self improvement and making our relationship great. Which, has led to him being more attractive and desirable to healthy, whole women instead of other dysfunctional women trying to fill a gap in their pain filled lives.

But-part of what allowed him to make those steps, was my willingness to support, love and reassure him ad nauseum as he took those steps.
 
Could it be he thinks he stepping up his game and showing you " extra love " showing you now attracted he is in you with the new PDA and sexual advances. He might be hoping that energy or attraction would be returned or at the very least acknowledged.

Unconscious competition with himself...or maybe not so unconscious.

So your feeling have shifted .......keeping the family intact because of responsibilities.....obligation dates or sex. He's having trouble excepting the fact you've changed and are moving on.

I start there layout the roommate plan.
 
I agree with LR's love language breakdown, with the additional caveats:

- it also goes both ways. If you make an effort to show him love in the way he understands it, then he should learn your love languages as well and try to understand how you perceive love.

- Physical Touch (or any love language) can be a tricky beast...

I was surprised as hell that Touch was one of my love languages. My ex rarely touched me, except as a prelude to sex. We rarely held hands (uncomfortable for him), no "hand on the shoulder" thing when we were out, no cuddling in bed (I remember telling my partner "I'm not a cuddler"... HA! WRONGO!), no casual, loving touch unless he wanted some, and it got to the point where I equated his touch with the pressure to perform. The book actually touches (hehehe) on this. If it feels like your partner is only touching you to "get some", then it can feel more manipulative than loving, and actually turn you OFF. With my ex, when the sex was over, the touching stopped until he wanted it again. With my partner now, he is constantly touching - holding hands, hugging, holding a knee, rubbing his thumb along mine, etc. And even the more "private" touching doesn't necessarily have to lead to sex. No pressure, just enjoyment. I was surprised at how damned *wonderful* touch could be when there's no pressure to perform (and rejection when I didn't).

Turn it around: If you were giving your husband gifts in order to angle for him to do something, and you expressed your displeasure every time he accepted a gift and didn't do this whatever-it-is in return, would he begin to be reluctant to accept the gifts? Maybe if it got turned around into HIS love language, he could understand how this feels more like pressure than love.

That said, caveat #3:
- Sometimes sex just IS that important. And maybe that's a disconnect between the two of you. It's not WRONG. It's a mismatch, though. And one that will either take a lot of work to get past, or may require a relationship change.

Still, I'm hoping that maybe working on taking the pressure to perform out of the touching can help. Just a thought over a bowl of chowda (mmm... chicken and corn chowda over sourdough). Good luck. :)
 
Thumbs up to both of those caveats.
Relationships take both parties making a concerted effort.

;)

And you are absolutely dead on with the touch/sex.
I am HIGHLY sexual and have a physical need for that daily. But hubby, whose love language is physical touch, needs sex a cpl times a week and he is satisfied.

Its important for me to NOT make physical affection always lead to sex and important for him to "lead it to sex" for me lol.

Likewise, my bf, he is a touchy feely person with no demand at all for sex. He is happy to do whatever needed to get me off, but rarely strives for his own sexual release. But he thrives on cuddles.

Touch is a tricky one.
But great relationships are tricky too.
Like chess versus checkers.

Poly dynamics are like 3-D chess.
 
He is very much a Gift person with strong leanings for Physical Touch as well. I am aware that not giving him this right now is hard for him. I am also having a problem with the amount of touch he wants.

It's good to know how people best receive the message that we love them. If one kind of expression is just as natural to us as another, and one of them is better received by our partner then it makes sense to express that way instead.

What is *not* good is to adopt a method of expression which is not natural for us. I get the impression that you are functioning with this reality in mind, I just wanted to reinforce it for the cheap seats. It's good to know what people want - and it's good to be an adult and realize that this is life and we don't always get what we want.

His boundaries were becoming inappropriate, and so I felt as though it was important, for our relationship to survive, for me to set the boundaries more clearly, and ask him to just STOP. Even after telling him that sex was off the table for a little while, he continued to try and touch my breasts, put his hands on my ass, and basically just disregard entirely everything I was asking him to do.

This might be one of the things that couples counseling can help with. There is clearly a message sent - message received error going on here. Dealing with critical breakdown in sending and receiving messages to each other is the *one* thing I think couples counseling can address.

dingedheart said:
I start there layout the roommate plan

Not to keep hammering on this reality, because you [OP] are no doubt aware that it is around the corner, but you really might start to shift your efforts to "how to live our new roommate lives".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with redefining the nature of your relationship because there has been a fundamental shift. Or, in your case, the loss of ability to suppress who you are which necessarily changes how your relationship with this man will work. Maybe this discussion can be better facilitated by said couples counselor?
 
I'm sorry to hear you are struggling. Glad to hear you are arranging counseling though. That's a good step.

Now that sex has been taken off the table, we have been unable to find other ways for him to feel like we are still connected and in a good place. He constantly feels rejected and as though "He doesnt belong in my life"...

So what are you suggestions to meet connection needs in the marriage?

What are his connection to meet connection needs in the marriage?

Could he articulate the connections needs with need type words? Could you?

He is very much a Gift person with strong leanings for Physical Touch as well. I am aware that not giving him this right now is hard for him. I am also having a problem with the amount of touch he wants.

If he was not respecting limits, it's good you put the firmer rules down. Just because he's a spouse doesn't mean he gets to paw you over willy nilly without obtaining consent. That's fresh!

If he needs more touch in his life -- do you have pets? A dog? Anything like that? Could that be something to think about? Fostering animals if you don't want a permanent pet?

What about appropriate hug attention for the children or the elders in your lives? Hugs for both kids and seniors is not the same as a lover, but it doesn't hurt. Seniors esp as they age lose partners and family and friends and don't get a lot of touch any more or need extra help moving around, getting things from up high, etc.

Maybe he wants to volunteer in places like animal shelters or senior centers. Give him a sense of value/purpose outside of "Willow's partner" as well as engage "touch" in the work.

At the very least -- think about going for a walk more often. Exercise is an underused antidepressant.

Since he wants to date and find a GF - what's that solve for him? Does he say? What's the main objection there for you? (I could guess... but I kinda want to hear your POVs. Maybe that would give clues to alternatives?)

Sex releases a lot of feel good hormones -- and if he's in the habit of sex as a pacifier -- could he be doing the suffering withdrawal thing? If he's never learned to self -soothe that's another layer here?

In case you haven't read them and if they might help:

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/jealousy.html
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

Have you considered some of this is stages of grief? He's feeling real loss and mourning for what used to be between you -- the monogamous marriage? Maybe he'd be ok in the end, but he's just has to do his mourning time first and needs mourning support / help realizing this IS a mourning time and NOT the end of the world or the marriage?

Is he doing self-respecting behaviors or self-disrespecting behaviors? Could he do MORE self-respecting behavior to help improve his self-esteem? What are his thinking patterns like? Is he his own bully in there? That could be things to bring up in counseling.
We have an appointment with a counselor next week to begin therapy, which we probably should have done months ago. We will do what we can to try and save our marriage. I am hoping she will have some new tricks for us.

"Save our marriage" is not a mission or a goal. It is a possible outcome. The way you write it makes it sound like a shared want. I will assume it is a shared want -- so then things aren't hopeless here. You sound more stuck on the HOW to go from point A to point B and first defining better what point B IS.

"we would really like to keep our family intact if we can." That doesn't define WHAT shapes "intact family" could be that are acceptable. Or HOW to achieve them. Could better refine that.

"He says he wants to embrace it" Ok -- so it is not a lack of willing but a lack of tools/support then? Again the HOW of it? Oercoming obstacles in the way of it? WHAT are the obstacles? How can they be removed? That could figure in your strategy somewhere.

Could keep talking and figure it all out -- ID all the little pieces first. JUST ID.

Could then organize thoughts and pieces with the counselor to figure out what exactly you both are dealing with here, what the overall mission is going to be, then set up the goals, then set up the behaviors to support the goals to be doing/not doing. Which in turn move your closer to meeting the mission.

You don't need *a* plan. You need a collection of plans to fix all the little broken bits and address all the needs in an organized way. A strategy.

Then it is broken down to behavior done/not done for his "to do" list and yours. Things you can actually execute. With some check points in there with the counselor to see how both are holding up their ends of the deal. If plans need adjustments and tweak along the way or what.

Then when the final checkpoint comes you can assess if the state of the marriage is improved or not. "Saved" or not. Or close enough so where both parties want to keep investing in it a bit more.

You guys can do this if both are willing. Better if both are willing and ABLE already, but at the very least both are WILLING to try. If not both ABLE at this point, then part of the strategy will have to include a plan for getting the skills to BECOME able.

"ABLE" can be solved. "Willingness" is either a "yes" or "no." So... could determine the willingness of both partners at counseling.

Just loose thoughts in case they help any.

Hang in there.
Galagirl
 
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Thank you all so much!! This has been very helpful for me, and I am already feeling much better about things. Perspectives that I have not been able to get to myself, that we have trouble communicating about, it is all good.

In terms of love languages, I am an Acts of Service person. Which is difficult for hubby. He says he sometimes feels like he is just around because I need him to "do stuff for me". Which I do. :) But for me, changing the oil in my car without my asking him to, or offering to go to the store so I dont have to, those are all things that make my heart soar! That he thinks about those things, wants to ease my burden, free up my time so that we can do stuff.

Part of what comes up for me is that my BF does many of these types of things for me. He is a very sexual person, and loves touch as much as anyone else does. But he recognizes that I do things differently and he adapts. So when TB has trouble doing that for me, it is hard for me to accept. But I am struggling with his love style too. We are both learning to learn....

Could it be he thinks he stepping up his game and showing you " extra love " showing you now attracted he is in you with the new PDA and sexual advances. He might be hoping that energy or attraction would be returned or at the very least acknowledged.
~ dingedheart

Yes, I do think this is exactly what he is doing. He is showing me he loves me in the best way he currently knows how. I dont fault him for that, I can see that he is trying, hard. It is just not my language.

- Physical Touch (or any love language) can be a tricky beast...

I was surprised as hell that Touch was one of my love languages. My ex rarely touched me, except as a prelude to sex. We rarely held hands (uncomfortable for him), no "hand on the shoulder" thing when we were out, no cuddling in bed (I remember telling my partner "I'm not a cuddler"... HA! WRONGO!), no casual, loving touch unless he wanted some, and it got to the point where I equated his touch with the pressure to perform. The book actually touches (hehehe) on this. If it feels like your partner is only touching you to "get some", then it can feel more manipulative than loving, and actually turn you OFF. With my ex, when the sex was over, the touching stopped until he wanted it again. With my partner now, he is constantly touching - holding hands, hugging, holding a knee, rubbing his thumb along mine, etc. And even the more "private" touching doesn't necessarily have to lead to sex. No pressure, just enjoyment. I was surprised at how damned *wonderful* touch could be when there's no pressure to perform (and rejection when I didn't).
~YouAreHere

Yes!! This!! Thank you SO much! This is exactly what I am talking about. IN the past, and not just with TB but with other lovers too, this is my experience. So to see it written out is wonderful and affirming. Thank you!

GG, Marcus, LovingRadiance, thank you for your words as well. All so, so helpful... :)

Willow
 
The great thing about being "acts-of-service-oriented" is that it allows us to express that even when we can't be together. I, too, get "on notice" when someone does something for me the RIGHT way, the FIRST time, WITHOUT asking. It means they are really noticing or paying attention to how I live and how to make my everyday life run smoother.
 
I understand that they're are problems in the relationship but how does taking sex off the table help?? If you're not getting your needs met at home, let your husband know. Taking sex off the table when sex was happening on a regular basis, would frustrate someone beyond belief. I think this would just fester and fester.

Just my 5cents
 
I understand that they're are problems in the relationship but how does taking sex off the table help?? If you're not getting your needs met at home, let your husband know. Taking sex off the table when sex was happening on a regular basis, would frustrate someone beyond belief. I think this would just fester and fester.

Just my 5cents

PolyPA, I was not taking sex off the table as punishment or to "solve the problems" in the relationship. I did it because I DIDNT WANT TO HAVE SEX. And I had been doing it to please my husband, keep him happy, and to keep the peace. It was not about being GGG (Good, ?Giving and Game) a la Dan Savage. That I can do easily (hmm, no I wasnt really thinking of giving a blow job tonight, but I could do that for you, sure...).

I understand that my decision affected my husband, and he was not happy with it. However, this is one of those areas in which it's tricky, I think, to say to people that they should just give their partners what they need in a relationship. When people say that to me, it feels very much like "Just give him what he wants honey, and keep your man happy..." Very 1950's "how to please your Husband" mentality. Yuck.
 
I understand that my decision affected my husband, and he was not happy with it. However, this is one of those areas in which it's tricky, I think, to say to people that they should just give their partners what they need in a relationship. When people say that to me, it feels very much like "Just give him what he wants honey, and keep your man happy..." Very 1950's "how to please your Husband" mentality. Yuck.

I totally agree with you on this point. I despised the idea that I should have sex whether I wanted to or would enjoy it simply because "I was supposed to/he wanted it." It turned sex into a commodity, something to be traded so I could have some free time or go out without him turning into a puddle or acting like a jerk.
 
Healthy choices

He is convinced that getting a GF for himself will solve his insecurity issue, because then he has someone else also, someone to give him some time and attention. I have tried to (gently) explain to him that this is not a good solution and he needs to figure out what is really going on for him.

I agree with you, it's not fair to whatever woman he goes after to simply be a role to fill. I've dated guys who I realized, after the fact, simply wanted a girlfriend, not me. So this is somewhat of a relationship issue, not just a poly one.

Actually developing a relationship with another woman is probably the healthiest thing he could do, but only once he's in a good place.

Once he realizes choosing to live a poly lifestyle with you means the ability to be with another woman (should he meet one and fall in love naturally), I think he may be very happy and grateful to be with you :)
 
Actually developing a relationship with another woman is probably the healthiest thing he could do, but only once he's in a good place

I got involved with a couple a while back and I didn't realize that I was the only woman (other than his wife) that he had been involved with. I liked them as a couple, but eventually it came out that he is insecure, needy etc. once I began to back away from them because of the drama that started coming out, he went into a depression.....literally stayed in bed for two days. It was not a good thing.

One of the things I have realized about this lifestyle is that it is easier for women to thrive. It is a lot more difficult for men. I advised her to "assist" him in meeting women and couples- which she did and things have gotten better for them.

Not advise I would give to everyone, but I have seen couples that were struggling in the lifestyle and after suggesting that they approach it as a couple for a while - I have seen good results! But the relationship has to have a good foundation to begin with.
 
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