overcoming jealousy

uncertain

New member
Hello everyone. I’m a straight guy in my twenties, and I had long thought of myself as polyamorous (though I wasn’t entirely sure what exactly that entailed). I even had a real disdain for monogamy, and judged people who were strictly monogamous. As such, when I eventually got into a relationship a few years ago, it was obvious for me to ask for an open relationship. My girlfriend agreed, but though we actively encouraged each other to experiment with other people, neither of us did. Then, after a month or two of this, my girlfriend slept with another guy – and it broke me. I fell into a brief depressive period, I would break down in tears at night, completely unable to sleep till the morning. I had never once considered that I might be a jealous partner. As it turned out, I really was. Of course, an open relationship was out of the question for me, and so my girlfriend and I became monogamous.
Since then, the break downs have almost stopped, but what has remained is a great deal of jealousy. At this point, I feel that I should clarify that this does not mean that I’m controlling or distrustful. What it basically amounts to, is that whenever my girlfriend goes out clubbing without me, or sometimes even just meets friends without me, I am overcome by a mix of emotions that I can only describe as pain. Sometimes it’s manageable enough to be dealt with via distractions, other times all I can do is drink to dull the pain.

And I hate everything about it. I hate that I am now restricted to being monogamous (although we have since found out that this is the only form of relationship that works for my girlfriend anyway). I hate that my girlfriend has become hesitant to go out, because she knows what it does to me. I hate myself for being that jealous partner I always judged. But I don’t know what to do about it.
I’ve read tons of articles filled with advice on overcoming jealousy, but they basically all just tell me to love myself (which I think I do to a reasonable degree), to trust my partner doesn’t sleep with others (which firstly I do, but which more importantly shouldn’t even matter), and not to be controlling (which I’m not).

So I guess what I’m asking is this: If any of you have experienced something similar, what did you find to be the underlying issue or fear or whatever (cause I couldn’t even say why her going out makes me feel so bad), and how (if at all) have you managed to overcome it?

P. S. I hope I’m not breaking any rules by posting this here. This forum was recommended to me by a friend I spoke to about this, but since I am monogamous, as is my partner, I’d of course understand if this thread wasn’t welcome here. I also didn’t know where to post. The poly relationship corner seemed fitting, except of course for the part where I’m not in a poly relationship.
 
Hi, you're welcome here, and you posted in the right section.

Sorry you're so overcome with jealousy. it's a true fact that one can feel oneself to be poly, and imagine the fun of having multiple lovers. But when one of your partners gets another partner, especially if they have sex with them... jealousy can rear its ugly head.

Jealousy always stems from fear of loss. We imagine the new lover our partner has is so attractive, sexy, fun, interesting, better looking, wealthier, smarter, more skilled at sex, more successful in their career, has less hangups and annoying quirks (etc.!), that our partner will naturally prefer them and leave us.

We can have a stronger feeling of jealousy/fear of loss if we experienced abandonment as a child or youth. We can have a stronger reaction if we have low self esteem or were neglected or abused as a child. You can see the connection... If we were raised with respect and cared for, and were praised for our talents and hard work, by the adults in our life, our parents, grandparents, other adults such as a loving aunt or uncle, older sibling, teacher, we may feel enough self worth to quickly overcome jealousy.

It can just take practice if one is determined to be poly, to overcome jealousy. With experience, we usually see that another lover of our partner is just as human as we are, no better or worse. Maybe they have better looks, or a bigger penis, or other physical attribute. So what? Looks and physical attributes given to us by genetics are only a small part of what makes us desirable.

But in your case, you reaction is very extreme. You're now even jealous of her platonic friends. My ex husband was like this. I put up with it for a long time, because he had many good qualities. But eventually it was a major reason I broke up with him. I found his low self esteem extremely unattractive. And we did couples and individual therapy for a good year, once a week, and he wasn't able to heal in any way.

I hope you can dig deep and figure out why you are SO devastated by her having friends she enjoys. Being codependent isn't healthy.
 
....what did you find to be the underlying issue or fear or whatever (cause I couldn’t even say why her going out makes me feel so bad), and how (if at all) have you managed to overcome it?

P. S. I hope I’m not breaking any rules by posting this here. This forum was recommended to me by a friend I spoke to about this, but since I am monogamous, as is my partner, I’d of course understand if this thread wasn’t welcome here.

You are welcome here, as is anyone who wants to participate in the discussions within the forum guidelines. We have several monogamous leaning community members here, including myself. It's a much valued perspective.

In my experience, jealously is always based on fear of loss, fear of abandonment. The situations vary, but the underlying fear is the same: an overwhelming fear that the loved one will leave us. The fear increases or subsides according to the "evidence" that we rightly or wrongly perceive around us. Whether we experience the fear as jealousy or as pure fear, it's fear all the same. So just knowing what jealously is helps to begin the process of getting a handle on it so that it does not poison your life.

There seem to be many ways to overcome jealousy, but I'll say that the worst way (in my view) is to ask the partner for reassurance. This is a temporary fix, at best, and does nothing to address the root of the fear or how it overtakes our thinking. It perpetuates the illusion that our beloved and his/her behavior has control over our thoughts and that is never the case. Nobody has control over us - ever. If we think they do, it's because we have chosen to assign them control, but in truth, only we have the power to choose what we think about and how we think about it. Nobody can change your perceptions but you. So habitually looking for reassurance from our partner (both spoken and unspoken, AKA "evidence") will always lead us to more jealousy and feelings of living beholden to what the partner is up to. BTW, this is also part of what co-dependence is all about, so if you're inspired to read more about that, there are many wonderful resources online. One need not be with an addict or in a horrific situation to benefit from learning about the cycle of co-dependent relationships and how to develop healthier emotional independence.

For me, focusing on and strengthening my spiritual awareness has been essential in moving away from my deep seated fear of abandonment. We don't overcome jealousy and debilitating fear so much as we find healthier thoughts and perspectives to replace them with. Finding community with others who share the origins of my fear (adult adoptees) has also helped me understand why my fears have had such a spooky grip on me. That's just what has worked really well for me, but there are many approaches.
 
Thank you for the advice and the warm welcome. I should perhaps clarify that I am not jealous of my girlfriends friendships. Rather, when she meets male friends, I sometimes can't stop feeling like they might end up sleeping together, I guess. I couldn't even say for sure, because those really aren't conscious thoughts. Rationally, I know that this would not happen, but it still kinda feels like it.

Something I neglected to mention earlier, but that seems like it might be relevant, is the fact that I am almost exclusively jealous about her interactions with other men. Although I am not as sure as I used to be that I would have no problems with my girlfriend being sexually active with women, the difference is still significant.

As I was writing the paragraphs above, it dawned on me that this might not so much be a fear of loss, but rather a feeling of grave humiliation somehow resulting from deep-rooted an subconscious views about gender. Does this seem plausible? Have you ever experienced something similar? I really must thank you, for this may have already brought me closer to an answer than the many hours I have spent agonizing over this topic.
 
... this might not so much be a fear of loss, but rather a feeling of grave humiliation somehow resulting from deep-rooted an subconscious views about gender.

It's the same fear of loss/rejection/abandonment, no matter the particulars. You, like many men, do not fear that a woman could take your place, but you fear that another man could. Whether you want to call it beliefs about gender, beliefs about friendships or beliefs about guys she meets in clubs, a fearful belief is a fearful belief and will express itself as jealousy sometimes. The root of jealousy is fear of loss/abandonment/rejection.
 
Hello uncertain,

It sounds like you are making some progress on getting a grip on your angst. That is good news. You said that that you experience a feeling of humiliation when she meets male friends, coupled with a feeling as if she was going to have sex with them. What is it about other men and her sleeping with them that you find humiliating? Does some part of your subconscious think/fear that other men are superior to you? and her sleeping with them would be the proof? Is part of it a fear that you are not enough? that you are not enough of a man to satisfy her, and that's why she goes out and looks for others? Try to dig down into your subconscious and observe what's going on. A therapist may be able to help, if that's something you can tap into. Also continue to read/post on this thread, hopefully we can continue to be of help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I don't know if they would help you any but some links....

WAGNER

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

LABRIOLA

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articl...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/jealousy-first-aid

https://www.amazon.com/Jealousy-Wor...=1537766949&sr=8-1&keywords=jealousy+workbook

They are geared for polyamorous relationships, but you could read them anyway fro tips to help with your jealousy management. Just that you are in a monogamous context so you have to apply it to your situation, YKWIM?

Like you do not want to "Open the relationship" in the sense that you want each of you to date other people. But like you want to "Open the relationship" enough so you don't have to feel jealous if she does out with friends that include male friends.

Because you say you feel "restricted" now... so maybe you want to open a bit more so you have some room to breathe and not deal with this burden to this extent any more.

HTH!

Galagirl
 
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I have 2 thoughts/suggestions on this that are just based on my own experiences. I'm the female side of this exact same situation in a relationship except my partner and I are poly. But my male partner definitely still experiences and feels some pretty big feelings of insecurity and loss when I'm out with male friends, or especially when I'm out with a male partner/date. He feels it to some extent when I'm just out with any friends in general, but I think in those instances it's more of a lack of inclusion issue where he's feeling FOMO.

So back to the whole feels when I'm out with a date/men/etc.

1) I think it's important to first of all, let yourself feel those feelings when you have them without creating so much of a narrative around them. Sometimes fighting them, or building a story around them just makes them worse, cause then not only are you feeling jealousy and insecurity, but you're piling guilt and frustration on top of it. It could be worthwhile to practice just letting the feelings happen, and wash over you, but not digging in at that moment.

2) From my own observations, I tend to wonder if part of the difference between people who experience more jealousy and insecurity vs those who don't is possibly entwined in feelings of dependence on that person. I realize dependence is a loaded word, so let me clarify by saying it in the sense that some people basically have that "omg, I can't live without this person, they are my world" etc sort of feeling where the relationship can basically start to define that person as a whole. I don't think that this necessarily means that a person doesn't have their own friends, or their own hobbies... I honestly am not even sure that I can really even describe it well. But I have notice that among the people I know that tend to experience the least jealousy and insecurity, those people have generally been more accepting of the idea that "shit happens, relationships end, and while I may love this person SO MUCH, I also know that I won't die if things don't work out. I'll be ok." Of course, that sounds really callous, but like I said.... it's not that they don't care about the relationship or feel a deep love for their partner. It seems more tied to a general comfort with the idea that people die, statistically many relationships end, people change, etc. But that they are fighting the good fight and hoping that their relationship is one of the lasting ones that survives the test of time. But that general acceptance of "things happen and I can't control or predict the future" definitely seems, to me, to show up in how a person securely or insecurely attaches to the people and things in their lives. I have no idea if any of this describes you, or fits you. But again, just something that I feel live I've observed a trend in when it comes to people.
 
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I had never once considered that I might be a jealous partner. As it turned out, I really was. I hate myself for being that jealous partner I always judged.

I’ve read tons of articles filled with advice on overcoming jealousy, but they basically all just tell me to love myself (which I think I do to a reasonable degree)

So I guess what I’m asking is this: If any of you have experienced something similar, what did you find to be the underlying issue or fear or whatever, and how (if at all) have you managed to overcome it?

As I was writing the paragraphs above, it dawned on me that this might not so much be a fear of loss, but rather a feeling of grave humiliation somehow resulting from deep-rooted an subconscious views about gender. Does this seem plausible? Have you ever experienced something similar?


Same here, uncertain. In my previous long-term (albeit, mono) relationships, I had always been very independent, as opposed to co-dependent, and was never the jealous type. I've always had a good sense of my "self" and my own worth. In my first serious relationship, it was my boyfriend who was the extremely jealous one. When he eventually cheated on me, I was more devastated/humiliated than jealous, and quickly ended the relationship. When I was with my ex-husband on the other hand, neither of us experienced much, if any, jealousy. We both were extremely independent, had our own hobbies and often hung out separately with friends of any gender or orientation without undue concern. Eventually that relationship ended, but not due to issues of jealousy.

However, this all changed for me when I entered a relationship with my current male partner. We were monogamous with each other at first, and I think my newly discovered jealous bone stemmed from a few different issues:

- When my boyfriend Jester and I first started talking, he was still involved with another woman in a FWB capacity - unbeknownst to me. Unfortunately, he wasn't honest with me about this (though I had asked him directly if he was with anyone at the time), and I only came to discover the situation via the woman concerned, who was a mutual friend (and is now my girlfriend, ironically). This experience left quite a sour taste in my mouth though we got past it.

- Due to the above situation ^ and other, subsequent lies of omission on the part of my bf (that had nothing to do with other women) --- plus my previous experience of being cheated upon by my ex-boyfriend years ago --- I came to develop trust issues and a fear of being made a fool of.

- In my case, it's not that I don't love or value myself enough (I do!), nor is it a fear of being left for someone else or abandoned by my partner, as might be the case for many people who suffer from jealousy. It is the fear of being humiliated/made to look a fool if I should eventually come to find out something that had been kept from me. It's the fear of being led to believe *one thing* - and investing time, energy and emotions into what I assume is a particular kind of relationship - then eventually finding out it was based on a lie, or wasn't what the relationship I *thought* it was.

From my own observations, I tend to wonder if part of the difference between people who experience more jealousy and insecurity vs those who don't is possibly entwined in feelings of dependence on that person.

I don't think that this necessarily means that a person doesn't have their own friends, or their own hobbies... But I have notice that among the people I know that tend to experience the least jealousy and insecurity, those people have generally been more accepting of the idea that "shit happens, relationships end, and while I may love this person SO MUCH, I also know that I won't die if things don't work out. I'll be ok."

But that general acceptance of "things happen and I can't control or predict the future" definitely seems, to me, to show up in how a person securely or insecurely attaches to the people and things in their lives. I have no idea if any of this describes you, or fits you. But again, just something that I feel live I've observed a trend in when it comes to people.

I believe you're onto something, breathemusic.

As an anxious overthinker, I need to have control - NOT of my partner or anyone else, necessarily - but of my OWN life, relationships, future, and in *what* I choose to invest time/energy/emotion. Nothing scares me more than to think/suspect (or worse, not even have a clue!) that I'm investing a great deal of myself in something that might not be "real" or what I think and trust it to be. This is where MY insecurities springs from.

Like I said above, I had never been particularly jealous until I entered into a relationship with someone who essentially burned me from the start. Not in a life-altering way that I/we couldn't get past... but due to some lies of omission regarding some important details about his life.

That ^ coupled with the aforementioned past experience in which I was cheated upon big-time by an ex, has left me in no doubt that we CANNOT control anybody else's feelings or actions, and the future is unpredictable... no matter how much love and care we put into our relationships... no matter how honest we ourselves are with our partner... no matter how confident we may be as individuals.

There is also this: I had been in love with other partners prior to my current boyfriend, obviously. However, I had never experienced SUCH a powerful, all-encompassing Love and attraction to ALL aspects of this person's being, before I met Jester - and neither had he where I was concerned.

And the very intensity of our feelings DID lead to some form of co-dependence as you alluded to, breathmusic. While for Jester, this degree of dependence/infatuation/neediness mostly wore off after NRE died down, it really never did for me... and this imbalance has been a problem.

It doesn't help that Jester is the type who likes to remain close and in regular contact with most of his exes. While in the past, this wouldn't bother me one bit, the fact that we are long distance and rarely get to see each other in person leaves me more insecure than I'd otherwise be, especially given the mistakes he made in the early part of our relationship, which we've since overcome.
 
Thank you all for the advice! I will likely try to find a therapist, but this has already been very helpful. I think the humiliation (if that really is what I'm feeling), doesn't stem from a feeling of inadequacy, but rather from the notion that somehow, something's being taken from me. Kinda like the helpless rage of a child who's lunch is stolen by bullies. Which, I realize, is a horrible way to frame a relationship.

Thank you for the links, galagirl, I haven't read them yet, but they look very promising. After all, while I am (and will be for the foreseeable future) in a monogamous relationship, I would like to not only become less sensitive in my jealousy, but rather overcome it to the point where I could take pleasure in knowing my partner is having a good time, even if that included having intercourse with someone else (though this may of course be a pipe dream).
This kinda ties into my question for you, breathemusic: Do you think that "letting the feelings happen" would help eventually overcome them, or is it just something to help manage the pain when it occurs? Also, this is definitely the kind of relationship that has completely shifted my outlook on life and my plans for the future, but I'm not sure if that's really the root of my jealousy, and I'd at the very least like to think that these two things don't have to be connected.

@lunabunny sorry to hear you're also struggling with jealousy. I hope, you and your partner can learn and grow from these difficulties. Maybe the links galagirl posted can help you as well! :)
 
As I was writing the paragraphs above, it dawned on me that this might not so much be a fear of loss, but rather a feeling of grave humiliation somehow resulting from deep-rooted an subconscious views about gender. Does this seem plausible? Have you ever experienced something similar?.

I think there is something to this. I had a gf once who I really liked, who I found out had had sex with a friend of mine before our relationship. This made me insanely jealous. She hadn't been in a relationship with him or anything, they just had a number of one-night stands. In my mentality of the time, this somehow devalued her. It didn't help that this buddy was the one that always got the girls and was an all around self-centered prick. I was jealous and disgusted at the same time, but the jealousy had nothing to do with fear of losing her to him - that wasn't even remotely possible. It had to do with him having experienced sex with her too.

I believe that type of jealousy has to do with the whole traditional view of gender roles and what it means to be a "real man" according to society. Where a man's "status" is determined by a number of factors, not least of which is the woman he is with and the way she behaves. This strive for status has been subconsciously ingrained in us by society. Which has also given us this view that a "lady" is of high value, and a "slut" is of low value - especially in regard to your status. Everyone wants to marry a lady, not a slut. It is a mentality steeped in the ownership culture and objectifying women culture. So when your woman is sleeping around with other guys it subconciously feels like it damages your status because other guys are getting something of yours, something that is valuable (sex), therefore in essence taking away its value from you. And it affects how other guys perceive you and their estimation of your status ("He's a cuck!", "He can't control his woman!", etc.)

In my case it affected me because it was with someone in my inner circle. I couldn't help but feel like I was walking around in his second-hand clothes so to speak. I was valuing something he tossed aside, and that reflected on me.

Imagine you're driving around in a car and you stop by your buddy, he says, "Oh you bought that car? I took it for a test drive but it wasn't worth my time." Then he smirks and says, "Glad you enjoy it though."

I think this type of jealousy affects younger men more so than any other group. Younger men place a much higher value on sex than older men. And competition for status affects younger men much more. I could be wrong though. I had those jeolousy feeling with that gf when I was much younger than I am now. Now it seems irrelevant. I think think maybe understanding the underlying reasons for this type of jealousy helps to overcome it.
 
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