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  #41  
Old 11-11-2017, 07:43 PM
LoveQuest LoveQuest is offline
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Arrow Proven facts are more important.

AlwaysGrowing,

You're welcome to give me head pointers if you wish. You'll feel more comfortable after I clarify some miss-understandings:
  1. I never cheated. When I met Cam, my wife had left home, was living apart and we were not even talking by phone. In past, I would be patient, try to cool down, forgive her aggressiveness, try to help with encouraging words, not judge, and wait for things to turn around, focusing on feeling empathy for her. However, my vast experience has proven that such approach perpetuates the drama, allowing her disorder to push her into even more abusive behavior and speech, which could last for whatever time I was able to endure, even 6 months. Hence, I did exactly what she told me to do, to "forget" her (but not forget to pay bills though). Yet as soon as she started to regain control of her moods and ability to talk to me without deeply disrespecting me, I begun accepting her back and Cam just dimmed away naturally so she wouldn't interfere.
  2. It isn't true that I have a hidden purpose. My wife knows well that I'd love a poly relationship, but also that that would only be possible with her consent. And I had already admitted to my wife that I do have some level of physical attraction to Cam, even before my first post here. I told that to my wife as soon as I begun noticing I was having erections sometimes, when playing some jokes with Cam. Though when my wife states that my goal is just to have sex with Cam, I deny it, because I have a much deeper and beautiful purpose, in which sex really becomes something minor and unimportant.
  3. There is no forced situation. That would never work out. Every time we met Cam is was after my wife invited her, and was very surprised. The push limits thing I did was about minor and innocent things, such as pulling Cam by her arm when she was walking to the wrong direction, or asking to hug both of them while watching a film. Also, when it becomes too late I usually ask my wife to invite Cam to spend the night in our home and leave next day morning. My wife had shown she was uncomfortable with that, but first time that happened, next day we had such an incredible day together in a park that I thought it a worthy experience, but as it became more frequent it just made my wife's insecurity grow. She is unsure if I will always resist going there into Cam's bed. Now I think we need to talk more about that before it can happen again.
  4. I'm not a moral compass, but very good principles. Depending on the criteria, my wife's ethical behavior may even be slightly more "pure" than mine. She does extreme things, but later she regrets them. And I am always 100% forthright with Cam. I told her I loved someone else since I met her first time. And that is exactly what made her become comfortable enough to date me. Afraid of falling in love with anyone, she was too shy to think about anything too "serious" and preferred something closer to a friend with benefits.

We can't live without judging things. The problem is when we take conclusions too fast and do very wrong judgements, based on our own life experience for example. I don't do that because I see the world as a scientist. That means I don't rely on pure logic, no matter how appealing it is. I try to rely only on proven facts, or at least theories that don't show any contradiction with the proven facts. And the fact is that my wife's well being, trust and behavior have improved greatly. Cam's social behavior has also improved greatly. She is really unbuttoning.
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2017, 07:52 PM
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happytriad happytriad is offline
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I havenít read through everything everyone has commented but I just wanted to say communicate communicate communicate.

You might not like your wifeís response then again you might. But if you open up the door you have to be prepared to not hear what you want.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2017, 08:30 PM
mostlymonogamish mostlymonogamish is offline
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As I'm understanding the situation (and correct me if I'm wrong), your wife has borderline personality disorder, and Cam was raised by a parent with BPD. I have long suspected my sister of undiagnosed BPD; consequently, I've done an extensive amount of research on the subject.

It seems to me as though you're using your wife's disorder as a means to fulfill your fantasies of control. Her disorder is so serious that it makes your behavior look rational & calm in contrast. I find this deeply worrisome, especially coupled with your attitude toward "healing" Cam.

Some of the major criteria for a BPD diagnosis are intense fears of abandonment, black/white thinking, and an unstable sense of self. None of those traits cohabit well with polyamory. I can't see your behavior as anything but unethical.
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  #44  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:45 AM
LoveQuest LoveQuest is offline
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Question Control ?

mostlymonogamish,

I never said I'm "healing" Cam. Just said that she has been more social. And I didn't say this is my work either. She is the author of her own success, reached through means of other people, were I'm just am arm for her.

Now what do you mean with "fantasies of control". Can you elaborate more on that please?

Quote:
None of those traits cohabit well with polyamory.
From a logical perspective, it seems so. But I suggest you to research it, and you'll probably notice that statistics seem to point towards the opposite (co-occurrence).
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  #45  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:55 AM
anamikanon anamikanon is offline
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Page 5. Halfway mark to my prediction.
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  #46  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:43 AM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Red face

LQ,

Basically, you are trying to pile codependency on top of codependency. If you want a pat on the head for that, i think you'll have to look elsewhere.
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:58 AM
LoveQuest LoveQuest is offline
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Smile Happy end

... and everything went well !

After rainy Saturday plans were re-scheduled for Sunday, we all re-met in the water park with all the kids and everyone loved it. Cam was surprisingly expressive in stating that she has loved it. My wife also expressed great happiness and satisfaction, feeling that her boundaries were respected. She became comfortable enough to allow me to give a close hug and kiss in the cheek on Cam's goodbye.

My wife had her regular emotional moments before and during the day, exclusively due to her disorder, and initially I wasn't handling well, until I did, with a long and patient private conversation (more like a compassionate discourse that a parent elaborates for his emotional kid, but that's the best way to help her). And from there on she felt cared/loved and became joyful all the time. As I predicted, my own well-being was key to give me that energy/motivation. Without Cam's presence I wouldn't make it.

May seem very little progress with no clear indication of anything close to the what I've desired and polyamory, but my intuition says that although distant it is pointing onto that direction, to be reached some years ahead.

Side note:
I realized my challenge is much more about handling her disorder than discussing the mono/poly paradigm. It's a very poorly understood disorder, even by professionals who earn money treating it, thus I shouldn't expect any acceptance or comprehension in a board which is not even about that, or from people who haven't been on my situation. It was a mistake to share here too many details about such dynamic plus my own non-orthodox views and methods derived from successful results. Thus I don't care about the "angry critics" I got. Even because when I talk to people which have been in my situation, I get plain more of agreements and compliments than disagreements.

Last edited by LoveQuest; 11-13-2017 at 11:14 AM.
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:21 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi LoveQuest,

I'm very happy for you that things went so well on Sunday. Can I ask, what disorder does your wife have? and, what disorder does Cam have? I have lost track. Was BPD in there somewhere?

I think you are doing just fine.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #49  
Old 11-14-2017, 12:55 PM
LoveQuest LoveQuest is offline
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Wink

kdt26417,

Thanks !
Yes, my wife and Cam's mother. Though Cam doesn't have any disorder. She is just very shy and does little social engagement. She says she is happy in doing entertainment all by herself or with internet groups of strangers, but I can see through it that she just needs to feel accepted and included by people who respect and care about her, like on Sunday.
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  #50  
Old 11-14-2017, 05:38 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Okay good, that's what I was thinking.
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