Advice On Opening An Existing Relationship

Picture yourself in a year ... in five years ... in 25 years ...

I just hope you get some relief. Keep us posted!
 
I suggest you look up the term "sunk cost fallacy" if you're not familiar with it.

Basically, it's being so invested in "what has come before" that you're not making the best decision for you in the "right now".

A good quote from this article (emphasis mine):
The past investment is “sunk” into the endeavor and cannot be recouped. It is gone. Ongoing investment will not resuscitate what is gone when the investment is a bad one.

You have been trying to recoup your investment in this relationship for some time now, and it's not working. What decision(s) do you need to make now, in order to move your life in the direction that you need?

He's clearly checked out. You seem to be on the verge of despondent and grasping for anything that will save this, and I feel for you, but please don't compromise your own happiness because he refuses to work at this relationship. What will you be succeeding at saving if you stay? Do you truly believe you can get back what you had before?
 
Heh, hearing about sunk cost fallacy with respect to the church is exactly what gave me the strength to leave the church. True story.
 
Oh, hon, you need to face what's happening right now. It is pretty clear from your writing that the relationship is over. I suggest you start extricating yourself from it now. Just worry about you, for once. Gather up your money, find a place to stay, and pack your bags. His depression, broken ankle, and sucky attitude are his problems, not yours. When you spend so much time and effort trying to take care of someone who won't take care of himself, and doesn't make the slightest attempt to even meet you halfway, you will just deplete yourself of all your energy and spirit. You deserve better.
 
Touching back on the testosterone. .. he may not feel any different, but do you when he is on replacement? The doctor put my dad on an anti depresan, he claimed he felt no different but my mother loudly proclaimed it made her feel better.

You mentioned injury and surgery, pain medication and physical inactivity will both drop T and sex drive dramaticly. Not to mention fog the mind to face the situation at hand.


It looks like the writing is on the wall, poly may end the relationship, but him failing to communicate or try anything will definitely end things.
 
I am also in a sexless M and get my intimacy/sex from MM

Yikes, Your story runs parallel with some of us.
You can read up on this thread.
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36166

I have an update. H took a dive then pulled out of it. Has been very loving lately.

Sounds like you want your new Beau for Valentine's. I think that may be a suicide move for your R. Your BF could slip in the "she doesn't love me zone." If she loved me she would never do this near Valentine's day" IDK. I would feel slapped if H gave me ultimatums and stepped out near Valentine's. (not that you don't deserve sex or intimacy) I know, what about me? No fair. yeppers it is not fair.

Couple of things that I did that were key. He wouldn't read enough of http://www.amazon.com/Love-In-Abundance-Counselors-Relationships/dp/1890159778

I did most all the legwork. He was flailing around in a depressive daze. Mine would not go to counseling but did it via triangulation. He followed through with some of the assignments.

I put him in a DADT after about 3-4 times of immense anxiety talks for him. The reason I put it in front of him over and over was because he had basically been in denial that I could really step out. I set boundaries for myself. I set rules that might bring him some peace and me sex. DADT's have a high failure rate unless both are genuinely on the same page. I knew if I kept trying to push my agenda on H I would lose him. At the time, I thought so be it. Maybe it is not meant to be. This is so draining. I can't go the rest of my life without sex/a man's touch/intimacy.

IMO, if I would have made him accept my new beau in a month. He would have left. Don't let us guide you. Let your feedback to a therapist guide you as to the time frame. NRE can be your worst enemy right now. For me, it clouded the ability to reason. Mind you, I had gently told H I was stepping out for sex then sat on the fence for months.

Once he was past denial and shock. Then I had a better chance at reasoning. He was still emotional and I had to de-escalate our talks. I thought it helped to not have a man already in my hand. I can't be sure. I think he wanted to leave out of sheer anxiety. (he said, He wanted a divorce because he no longer wanted to see me in pain) I was really ready to back down. A mentor said not to after inquiring about our intimacy/activities as a couple.

Even though I feel like getting defensive telling him- I deserve sex damn it! I held it in. Him going through passive aggressive phases was met with love, mostly. Though I felt like pinching his ear and sitting him in the corner. We didn't point fingers without bringing the conversation back to love.

I can give you details if you wish to know how I came from point A to B.
I could not use threats, because I knew he would get anxious and start tearing down the M. He was whimpering in his sleep. That pained me the most. Remember open M's are not mainstream. A smaller percentage of the population engages in them. Which means we have a lot of educating to do to win our SO's to an open mindset.

Anxiety and depression can lead to sexual anorexia. If you add low T to that. OOPS. Stress also will make the adrenals malfunction and not produce testosterone.

FF H sent me flowers again. I can cuddle with him again, but I do get sex and intimacy outside the M once or twice a week. H doesn't like it but he said he accepts it.

When you see him passive aggressively tearing down the R. Meet him with love. (yeah it will not be easy) The best choice I made was to not do things to tear down the M. I coddled him while he was healing. The effort was worth it but time consuming.

If I may. You don't have time for Mariane Williamson's book, even though it is a good book, it won't help you as much as an open M book will. Since you mentioned her book. Your meditations should be filled with positive direction/visualization.

Focus on the jealousy section and boundaries/rules. My H didn't participate much. It was too overwhelming. I made sensible boundaries. Then followed through. I informed him of my actions that would protect my H. I did cross my boundaries then I got back to them.

Those posters who were on my post (the core members of the group, saved my M. Thank you all) KDT and Dusty put a lot of time into me. Look at the posts that the members write. They are well thought out. I only reveal that I am with MM to my H every blue moon. It is too rough on him. Your BF will negotiate sex back into the R temporarily, but it won't last unless he pulls out of this. Which won't be soon, because he is now dealing with shock, anxiety and depression.

YMMV Take what you like and leave the rest. ((hugs)))
 
Thinking outside the box

What are her choices that would empower her and put her in a position of maybe salvaging her R?

Did you ever notice a couple who was having an affair in your office? This NRE or new relationship energy is very hard to hide from others. (oxytocin high./ adrenalin relationship high when they are in each others presence) Your BF caught you in that high when you were with your new beau. Your BF might translate that to- oh no you don't! I saw you oozing with giddy girl syndrome around him. Oh hell no, he doesn't get to take you away from me.

In any of the books you will see that the R's that survive will have a hierarchy. couple at the top making decisions for the rest of the ppl in the bottom corners. The mistake here is new beau made the decision with you for your R. Bad news, but it can be cleaned up. I hope BF doesn't know that.

Why do I think I was mostly successful? H and I were making decisions for the rest of the R. (mostly I was, empowered with more info, with H in mind)
Reassurance goes a long way to help the R but is short lived, so use the broken record technique with a loving tone.<--

Since your H is feeling really threatened by beau. Seeing the twinkle and new life he brought to the damsel in distress. I will make this suggestion if you can follow through. He is correct to think ruh roh, he is trying to take her away. Most of society would think this.

One suggestion that may be out of the box but not unheard of. If your goal is really to get sex and intimacy with a neat man. You can get soon. If you want to get sex and intimacy with your new beau with more acceptance add more men to the mix. Be a hotwife. I have a mentor who a couple enlisted to basically have sex with his W. (he is unable to but does not want to take away her pleasure of sex) He enlisted my mentor because he is safe. He is in a sexless M where he dearly loves his W. This man doesn't allow his W to see a man more than once a month. (attachment) ETA: She sees a different guy each week, skipping some weeks. Remember I talked about boundaries and rules. So she rotates a few really fine lovers 3-4. It is easier for us women to collect men. Although my mentor has sex and intimacy with 3 lovely sweet women. Has been doing so for many years. Openly. I wish I had gone this direction. I think my H would have been more comfy with this, rather than just one guy for several yrs. I have had 2 separate men because I wanted sex once a week or twice a month. Now MM sees most every week.

How did I reassure H?
I got my opposites in ways and told H that is what I would search for. ETA: I would be searching for my opposite to be less threatening to my H. All the little things do help to reassure H.
He is opposite, politically, and in other ways, business man who travels to me. He is a certain type my H knows I have never gone out with, though he was a model plucked off the streets. (I won't let H see his pics) H does not know he was a model. I looked for a sweet, amenable, touchy feely man who was open to exploring new sensations while mattress dancing. A mix of gentle with some rough manliness. (I had originally started to hang out in a erotica forum, fetish lifestyle forum.) I told myself that was going to be my sex. (watching others in action and dreaming) I was no longer ignoring romantic movie scenes.

I was starving. I told H to have one of his colleges that he trusted to shag me. NOPE. His morning smile melted into a frown of silence. Then one morning without planning. I said Lovey, I am going to step out of the M for sex. ETA: I was shaking in my boots. I felt hot. He said, do and that is where your R will lie. A therapist friend said what did you do? That is very emasculating. I went to therapy to clean it up, best I could. I told H my goal was sex. Only sex. I had no clue how much intimacy I needed. I don't reveal my intimacy needs to H. He knows how I am. I feel it is a burden to his psyche and my own. I asked MM if he could handle me being in love and attached to him, but we each knew our place in the R.
H would always be number one. His W and family and work would always be his number one. He agreed it would be possible to be in love but be someone else's love as well. It was neat to have different men who cared.

H said wait! That is embarrassing what do I tell ppl who see you out with others. I said: "You tell them that you allow me to go out with others for male fellowship as always. That is what you tell them." Only then did H start to accept this more. What will I tell H when he asks about MM again? I will tell him silly, You know I will have several men in my life to get me sex if I can. I can reiterate my boundaries that I have in place with MM.

If your BF is like my H. I would start a search to get the focus of new beau and put it on sex. The search was exhilarating. I got 120 ish responses in a day. Not all quality. Put a phrase in that lets them know they have read your profile. Throw away the others. I told H, I would not be revealing details because it felt weird to me and I did not want to hurt him. If he was gung ho about my finding sex outside. I would have revealed gladly. He mostly lived inside his head in silence, clamming up. Will H be more anxious about this one dude or more anxious about seeking several dudes? You tell us.

Tell H that this Valentine's is much more important to you than others and you need to both plan something extraordinary for each other. Week end trip with intimacy like his and her massage and no sex so he feels safe.

After Christmas and Valentine's day the dating sites are littered with ppl for a reason. They are feeling unwanted and lonely. Ashley Madison gets it biggest boom of the yr. Tell H to spend no less than 5 hrs in prep for Valentine's. You do the same. ETA: Don't fall into the trap of "if he loved me he would" He is incapable of being nurturing right now. He is lost. My H dove into books and ran so much he hurt his knee and needed surgery. Our world was caving in on us temporarily.

Just ideas that may not fit. I think the Poly's and Hotwives can teach us a lot. look them up. Remember that ppl don't reveal all their private sexual rendezvous. Why should we have to? It hurts our mate. I told H I would reveal what I was comfortable with, but mostly I would sooner or later go into hiding as much as I could so I would not hurt him or myself. ETA: I won't reveal all my sexual details and intimacy. Then I went into an underground cheater / philander's forum even though I am open. To make sure I could protect H from having this shoved in his face each week. DADT spared my H a lot of anxiety. Wow, who knew? He wanted to ignore what I was doing as much as he could. Finally, I figured out not to rub it in H's face. That is what he felt I was doing. I was just trying to be honest so he would not worry about me. I even told H I was feeling so uncomfortable that I would lie to not hurt his feelings so don't ask me about certain details, unless he wanted a generic lie. I would not make a good philanderer and I don't feel comfy revealing what I do.

I tried, "hey love, just calling to let ya know I am with my friend at the hotel." It turned into, " okay love. When I say I am going for ice cream, I am uncomfortable and will not be telling you any other details." Which led to "okay love, I am going to the grocery store in the next couple of days. Do you want anything?"

He felt so powerless in this situation that he started telling me no, you can't watch that TV program. No, we are not going to buy that! Lovey, will you do me a favor? "No." He moved out of the master bedroom. I cried and then went and tucked him in at night and just laid with him. MM told me, "oh no, he is feeling helpless. Hope he pulls through." He gradually came out of his terrible 2's and back to being my loving H. He did this off and on for about a yr.

Some will say, that is too much work. Yes, but I had gone over a decade of trying. So another yr of hard work, was a drop in the bucket. I have been with MM for several yrs when I had originally agreed to go 6 mos and check back in to see if we would return to sex.

For me, instead of getting in trouble for an affair. I got in trouble upfront by telling him my intentions. I was getting sex one way or another. Then gradually got better. Nice to be loved in different ways by two men.

If someone knows of other examples of sexless marriages that worked/ didn't. Let me know. Not many models around and sometimes I am lost. I think it is the most lonely feeling in the world, If you show love through intimacy and sex without reciprocation.

If this does not help you maybe it will help someone else.
ETA: an important note is that it took several months to find a neat man after my mentor said: "dump your pen pals and get serious about finding a guy."

This book was one I wanted this year because it rated higher than others 5 star. http://www.amazon.com/reader/0991399706?_encoding=UTF8&query=don
More Than Two: A practical guide to ethical polyamory Paperback – September 2, 2014

easier said than done. Take what you like and leave the rest. Surely we won't all agree on a path. There is no right or wrong.

What if you set up the appointment and go in alone? Bring him in later. Make sure the therapist is poly friendly. They have a list here. If not, consider doing therapy over the phone if covered. Remember that a therapist will ask him what he wants and respect his wishes after pointing out the consequences for scenarios.
again, this is too lengthy.

I found this in a slow sexless marriage forum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2MAx95m20
 
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Sweet Sensations, what a story! The lengths we women will go to, to nurture and protect our men and their fragile egos! It boggles the mind.

I went through 30 years trying to make things work with my ex husband, and finally gave up... so I know. My/our therapist said I was saying and doing all the right things, and he wasn't feeling it or believing it. So, I still hung on 6 more years! And finally gave up. We weren't entirely sexless though, it was other things. He'd fuck me, but passive aggressively wouldn't kiss me, show PDAs like holding hands, say he loved me, or call me "honey" anymore.

Anyway, Elizabeth! You deserve better. Let me say it again:

YOU DESERVE BETTER!!!

You've put your own needs aside for way too long. Besides no sex, you are also regretting not being a wife and a mother! You're "just" a gf and have no babies, and you're 40 years old.

AT LEAST you should be getting some ass.

Your husband isn't acting like a man, he's a coddled toddler. Take responsibility for your own actions though... you're the coddler, you're spoiling him. Narcissists like your husband gaslight their partners (look up gaslighting, look up narcissism). They also get you to carry their feelings. They have no moral or ethical center.

He's a drunk, he won't take his testosterone, now he's limping around on a hurt ankle!

Honey, you deserve better. Don't wait til you're 54 like I did. Go get your happiness now. There is life to be led! You say you love your husband, he makes you... laugh? That depressive guy??

You forget what real love is, between equals, between people who feel your happiness is as important as their own.

I started over at 54 and never regretted it once. I am having the time of my life with a new partner, and with polyamory. (But at least I also got to do the wife and mother thing, and now I am a new grandmother to boot.)

Your "boy"friend may be passive aggressive, but to be honest, you're being passive. Get out of this poor pitiful me mode and DO SOMETHING. Get therapy. Get a new boyfriend, see your platonic male friends, have some fun! Something!!

Your h is "self destructive" anyway. You're his partner, not his mom. He is also a grown ass adult.

Please stop coddling him and take care of yourself. YOU DESERVE IT.

I had an online relationship (after my h and I separated) whose wife hadn't given him sex in 3 years. We met once, made out, did oral sex. He was honest, she knew he was going to do it. Lo and behold, once he'd gotten sex from me, she went back to giving him sex once a week. It was a start. She decided she was a lesbian, got a gf, he got a gf too. They still live together, are still married, but it's as friends only, and co-parents, and raising goats and vegetables. But they get their true intimacy from their new partners and are living authentic lives!!

So, make changes. It's up to you. He isn't gonna do it. Once you start making changes in YOUR life, just see what it does for him! Could be he needs a crisis to change. That is often the case.

Go make it happen!
 
She isn't leaving just yet. She needs to see a therapist alone.

She said she wasn’t leaving him several times. She also said she was not financially in a position to leave just yet, but was saving up money in case. The binge drinking has been a challenge for a yr. He needs therapy and may just be a life challenge. Who can determine what he and she needs? A therapist. This guy was amenable and reasonable. I think if she leaves she will just come back, hence my strong recommendation to see a therapist even if she doesn't go at first. She should interview therapists to make sure they don’t have an agenda and have a healthy R themselves. A therapist suggested that I record my sessions and any therapist who would not let me record should be dropped.

Why did I share how I was able to de-escalate my situation? No matter what, she doesn’t need to sabotage the R on the way out of it. It can escalate and get very destructive if she participates. She also has a good chance of getting into a healthy R if she goes to therapy on her own rather than just leaving with little money into the arms of another man.

Intimacy came back for my H. The therapist said my H unlike hers, has a huge sexual block that he is not willing to discus at this time. I thought I was going to exit my M sooner than later. Several therapists determined that it would be very difficult to find a man like my H, but it is possible. Who knows my final direction? But if I chose to, with therapy, I will dismantle in a healthy manner upon exit. My H has healthy communication in other areas but not this one. My H was willing to compromise in therapy via triangulation. He didn’t go to therapy on a regular basis. We have assignments and he followed through for the most part. I mostly worked on the sexless M. It is an ongoing process. We check in periodically. My H does well in society, my girlfriends and his colleges adore him. We are financially well off with property investments, mostly my doing. H has other investments. Our communication is respectful and loving once again with bumps in the road. My H like hers, shares in the responsibility of household chores and maintenance.

I don’t know if her H is rare gold, I know my H is.

http://tctmed.com/how-long-does-testosterone-take-to-work/
Depression, anxiety, irritability, and other mood changes are common in men and women with low T.
According to a 2012 issue of the International Journal of Endocrinology, scientists are not sure why a dip in testosterone levels causes depression, but there does appear to be a correlation between the two.Sep 17, 2013

How Long Before Low Testosterone Therapy “Kicks In” – The Short Answer
- Understanding that there is no hard fast rule here, most patients feel significant improvement in symptoms within 4-6 weeks of starting treatment for Low T. It is common for symptoms like low sex drive and difficulty maintaining sleep to respond sooner. On the other hand, factors like obesity, chronic illness, or medications can make one’s response slower or more subtle at first. It has been our experience that, failure to respond to treatment (when the person is committed to staying consistent with appointments and recommendations) is very rare.
- For men symptoms of Low T and confirmed low testosterone levels, treatment works.
- Treatment typically begins to work some time before the 3rd week but response becomes more noticeable after the first month
- Symptoms of decreased sex drive can be expected to improve first
- Most men on TRT report improved mood by the 6th week of therapy
I see a hope for her if she goes into therapy on her own, even if he enters therapy later. A therapist needs to assess her situation even after his low T is cleaned up.

I know for a while I didn’t care if my H’s low T got cleaned up. I wanted sex right then, I was willing to work on everything else later. I told H I was stepping out of the R for sex out of desperation. A highly educated therapist, pastor friend told me that he did not believe that people were hardwired for monogamy. I started researching. Boom sure enough. That got the ball rolling. I saw a therapist again. He also said, "do you understand that if you believe in god he would not want you to go without sex for the rest of your life?" I actively started looking and researching.

I bet there is a tiny part of her that doesn't want low T cleaned up before she gets to fun with her new beau. I don't blame her. It really is quite fun to have 2 men and the oxytocin high of a new R is quite intoxicating. She put a short time frame on it because she done, rightfully so, and has been patient long enough. New beau gave her courage and is willing to recharge her system. Maybe even take her hand if it doesn't work out.

:cool:Like me, she gets sex either way, and soon. Maybe with two in time. Poly is my fantasy and I may move in that direction one day. I know it was easy enough to get two guys to accept that they would both be shagging me, until one became more attached. I also had a lot of leverage and it made it easier to get sex and intimacy outside. A therapist will teach her how to rock the boat gently, the book will teach her how to convince her SO to accept sex out side the R.
 
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