Other than my wife I have no one to talk to about this--and part of what I'm doing here is psyching myself up for that talk. I hope this is okay. I'm basically going to lament a relationship that has gone pretty horribly wrong. Am I looking for advice? I'm not sure. But I wouldn't reject it.
My wife and I became non-monogamous about a year ago. By explicit agreement it was not supposed to involve what we conceived of as polyamory at the time. By this, we meant, of course feelings can't be controlled, and should serious romantic dedicated love pop up we'd talk, and we'd probably take steps to stop such a relationship before it goes too far (for me, because who has the time?! and for her, because she just didn't like the idea of me having those feelings for another woman), but it wasn't what we were _going_ for. We were just opening up the marriage sexually.
For me this was about exploring a kink she has no interest in at all--indeed that she is very much the opposite of interested in.
For her this was about wanting to have more sex than she was having. (I was not having "too little" sex with her because of my kink, I just have a lower libido than her in general.)
This was all explicit, out in the open, no hurt feelings, both of us very happy for each other, all that! It seemed great!
Mistake the first: She chose one of her best male friends, someone she felt very close to as a friend, for her sex partner outside the marriage. Correction: She had already chosen him. This I understood from day one of our discussions, though I have to admit it wasn't her opening line so to speak, it came out in conversation.
We talked about how if it went poorly, it would go very poorly. I cautioned against it. But ultimately, it was her decision, and she decided. I did not see it as my place to interfere. (Also, let's be real--I wanted to explore the abovementioned kink, and this surely had something to do with my not being more strongly discouraging of what she'd decided.)
She introduced the idea to him as "I'm not your girlfriend, you're not my boyfriend, and I don't love you like that--but I think you're cute and we're great friends so why not share sex too! Husband is totally cool with it of course. "
Mistake the second: I didn't see this as either an existing or a nascent romance, and if I suspected it, I didn't bring it up.
She doesn't lie. She can't lie. Not to others anyway. She's just that kind of person. But can she lie to herself? Was this actually romance and she wasn't admitting it to herself? I don't know, but I suspect it. And whether or not it was at the beginning, the way things developed--well...
She discovered she couldn't handle the idea of him being with other women.
That's right. We were non-monogamous, and she openly and clearly and without reservation was okay with me having sex with another woman, but her friend she was having sex with outside the marriage, it somehow was not acceptable to her feelings that he was pursuing sex partners outside _their_ relationship.
She recognized that this made no sense, and she was honest with him about it. She told him she had come to realize she was having these completely illogical (her word) feelings of jealousy, and they should probably stop because that wasn't fair to him. I don't recall all the details of their conversation (as she reported it to me) but in the end they decided NOT to end the sexual part of their relationship, and he would just keep his other pursuits on the down-low around her, so to speak, and would let her know if he was getting serious with someone else.
That was probably mistake the third.
Especially because, after that conversation, he nevertheless kept bringing up other women around her, she kept saying "that really bothers me and I know it's not logical but we can really just end it," and he kept saying "no sorry I'll stop!" until in the end he sexted a friend of hers who was sitting right next to her as they were all hanging out, and she decided to simply end the relationship: all of it, including the friendship. She felt betrayed by him.
Okay so that was a lot of information but I relate it here because it leads up to what I've finally concluded and what I need to find a way to communicate to her, but which I anticipate to be a difficult, possibly contentious conversation:
A. I don't think she wanted to just open up the marriage sexually, I think she wanted another romantic relationship. AND I'M OKAY WITH THIS! But we need to call things what they are. Because pretending otherwise led to A LOT of confusion in this poor friend of hers--and led to an ended friendship for her as well of course.
B. I don't think she's psychologically constituted for non-monogamous sex on her side of things that is NOT tied with an at least quasi-dedicated romantic relationship. Again: I AM OKAY WITH THIS. I have no particular desire to start up romance with other women but I have absolutely no intention of forbidding her from acting on such feelings for others. We have children and our home and family come first--I know this is a controversial sentiment for some here but I'm just telling you how it is for us--but if she ALSO feels romantic attachments to others and wants to do things about that, what we do is talk and plan and love each other. I would not forbid this. And would not resent not being "allowed" to do the same on my end because I have literally no desire for it.
C. The kicker, the really really bad thing: Basically, I'm not willing to give up my kink. It has turned out to be by far one of the most fulfilling experiences _of my life_, seriously of my life. I mean, I'd give it up if she demanded it as a condition of our continued marriage or something (I doubt it would get that far) but the undeniable fact is this would cause deep, incredible resentment probably forever. She has to know this. (Why do I call this "the really really bad thing?" Because one simple solution to all this, now that her own relationship has ended on a very sour note, would be just to close up shop and treat this as a lark that we tried and turned out not to like. Nope. On my end, I liked it very very much. Not just "like" but, it's like, I've found a part of myself. That kind of thing. And because of this, I'm for all intents and purposes drawing a line that disallows the simple solution of just closing the marriage back up. Again, I'd do it if she really demanded it, but the emotional consequences for me, and hence for her by proxy, would be very, very serious.)
I just.... what do you think? Do you hate me? Are we horrible people? Do you have experiences that make it possible to give advice to someone in my position? I'm not much of an advice-asker-for. I welcome any comment. Please don't hate me.
My wife and I became non-monogamous about a year ago. By explicit agreement it was not supposed to involve what we conceived of as polyamory at the time. By this, we meant, of course feelings can't be controlled, and should serious romantic dedicated love pop up we'd talk, and we'd probably take steps to stop such a relationship before it goes too far (for me, because who has the time?! and for her, because she just didn't like the idea of me having those feelings for another woman), but it wasn't what we were _going_ for. We were just opening up the marriage sexually.
For me this was about exploring a kink she has no interest in at all--indeed that she is very much the opposite of interested in.
For her this was about wanting to have more sex than she was having. (I was not having "too little" sex with her because of my kink, I just have a lower libido than her in general.)
This was all explicit, out in the open, no hurt feelings, both of us very happy for each other, all that! It seemed great!
Mistake the first: She chose one of her best male friends, someone she felt very close to as a friend, for her sex partner outside the marriage. Correction: She had already chosen him. This I understood from day one of our discussions, though I have to admit it wasn't her opening line so to speak, it came out in conversation.
We talked about how if it went poorly, it would go very poorly. I cautioned against it. But ultimately, it was her decision, and she decided. I did not see it as my place to interfere. (Also, let's be real--I wanted to explore the abovementioned kink, and this surely had something to do with my not being more strongly discouraging of what she'd decided.)
She introduced the idea to him as "I'm not your girlfriend, you're not my boyfriend, and I don't love you like that--but I think you're cute and we're great friends so why not share sex too! Husband is totally cool with it of course. "
Mistake the second: I didn't see this as either an existing or a nascent romance, and if I suspected it, I didn't bring it up.
She doesn't lie. She can't lie. Not to others anyway. She's just that kind of person. But can she lie to herself? Was this actually romance and she wasn't admitting it to herself? I don't know, but I suspect it. And whether or not it was at the beginning, the way things developed--well...
She discovered she couldn't handle the idea of him being with other women.
That's right. We were non-monogamous, and she openly and clearly and without reservation was okay with me having sex with another woman, but her friend she was having sex with outside the marriage, it somehow was not acceptable to her feelings that he was pursuing sex partners outside _their_ relationship.
She recognized that this made no sense, and she was honest with him about it. She told him she had come to realize she was having these completely illogical (her word) feelings of jealousy, and they should probably stop because that wasn't fair to him. I don't recall all the details of their conversation (as she reported it to me) but in the end they decided NOT to end the sexual part of their relationship, and he would just keep his other pursuits on the down-low around her, so to speak, and would let her know if he was getting serious with someone else.
That was probably mistake the third.
Especially because, after that conversation, he nevertheless kept bringing up other women around her, she kept saying "that really bothers me and I know it's not logical but we can really just end it," and he kept saying "no sorry I'll stop!" until in the end he sexted a friend of hers who was sitting right next to her as they were all hanging out, and she decided to simply end the relationship: all of it, including the friendship. She felt betrayed by him.
Okay so that was a lot of information but I relate it here because it leads up to what I've finally concluded and what I need to find a way to communicate to her, but which I anticipate to be a difficult, possibly contentious conversation:
A. I don't think she wanted to just open up the marriage sexually, I think she wanted another romantic relationship. AND I'M OKAY WITH THIS! But we need to call things what they are. Because pretending otherwise led to A LOT of confusion in this poor friend of hers--and led to an ended friendship for her as well of course.
B. I don't think she's psychologically constituted for non-monogamous sex on her side of things that is NOT tied with an at least quasi-dedicated romantic relationship. Again: I AM OKAY WITH THIS. I have no particular desire to start up romance with other women but I have absolutely no intention of forbidding her from acting on such feelings for others. We have children and our home and family come first--I know this is a controversial sentiment for some here but I'm just telling you how it is for us--but if she ALSO feels romantic attachments to others and wants to do things about that, what we do is talk and plan and love each other. I would not forbid this. And would not resent not being "allowed" to do the same on my end because I have literally no desire for it.
C. The kicker, the really really bad thing: Basically, I'm not willing to give up my kink. It has turned out to be by far one of the most fulfilling experiences _of my life_, seriously of my life. I mean, I'd give it up if she demanded it as a condition of our continued marriage or something (I doubt it would get that far) but the undeniable fact is this would cause deep, incredible resentment probably forever. She has to know this. (Why do I call this "the really really bad thing?" Because one simple solution to all this, now that her own relationship has ended on a very sour note, would be just to close up shop and treat this as a lark that we tried and turned out not to like. Nope. On my end, I liked it very very much. Not just "like" but, it's like, I've found a part of myself. That kind of thing. And because of this, I'm for all intents and purposes drawing a line that disallows the simple solution of just closing the marriage back up. Again, I'd do it if she really demanded it, but the emotional consequences for me, and hence for her by proxy, would be very, very serious.)
I just.... what do you think? Do you hate me? Are we horrible people? Do you have experiences that make it possible to give advice to someone in my position? I'm not much of an advice-asker-for. I welcome any comment. Please don't hate me.