First Post. Lamenting Non-Monogamy gone Poly (maybe?) Relationship Gone Wrong

SunYatSen

New member
Other than my wife I have no one to talk to about this--and part of what I'm doing here is psyching myself up for that talk. I hope this is okay. I'm basically going to lament a relationship that has gone pretty horribly wrong. Am I looking for advice? I'm not sure. But I wouldn't reject it.

My wife and I became non-monogamous about a year ago. By explicit agreement it was not supposed to involve what we conceived of as polyamory at the time. By this, we meant, of course feelings can't be controlled, and should serious romantic dedicated love pop up we'd talk, and we'd probably take steps to stop such a relationship before it goes too far (for me, because who has the time?! and for her, because she just didn't like the idea of me having those feelings for another woman), but it wasn't what we were _going_ for. We were just opening up the marriage sexually.

For me this was about exploring a kink she has no interest in at all--indeed that she is very much the opposite of interested in.

For her this was about wanting to have more sex than she was having. (I was not having "too little" sex with her because of my kink, I just have a lower libido than her in general.)

This was all explicit, out in the open, no hurt feelings, both of us very happy for each other, all that! It seemed great!

Mistake the first: She chose one of her best male friends, someone she felt very close to as a friend, for her sex partner outside the marriage. Correction: She had already chosen him. This I understood from day one of our discussions, though I have to admit it wasn't her opening line so to speak, it came out in conversation.

We talked about how if it went poorly, it would go very poorly. I cautioned against it. But ultimately, it was her decision, and she decided. I did not see it as my place to interfere. (Also, let's be real--I wanted to explore the abovementioned kink, and this surely had something to do with my not being more strongly discouraging of what she'd decided.)

She introduced the idea to him as "I'm not your girlfriend, you're not my boyfriend, and I don't love you like that--but I think you're cute and we're great friends so why not share sex too! Husband is totally cool with it of course. :) "

Mistake the second: I didn't see this as either an existing or a nascent romance, and if I suspected it, I didn't bring it up.

She doesn't lie. She can't lie. Not to others anyway. She's just that kind of person. But can she lie to herself? Was this actually romance and she wasn't admitting it to herself? I don't know, but I suspect it. And whether or not it was at the beginning, the way things developed--well...

She discovered she couldn't handle the idea of him being with other women.

That's right. We were non-monogamous, and she openly and clearly and without reservation was okay with me having sex with another woman, but her friend she was having sex with outside the marriage, it somehow was not acceptable to her feelings that he was pursuing sex partners outside _their_ relationship.

She recognized that this made no sense, and she was honest with him about it. She told him she had come to realize she was having these completely illogical (her word) feelings of jealousy, and they should probably stop because that wasn't fair to him. I don't recall all the details of their conversation (as she reported it to me) but in the end they decided NOT to end the sexual part of their relationship, and he would just keep his other pursuits on the down-low around her, so to speak, and would let her know if he was getting serious with someone else.

That was probably mistake the third.

Especially because, after that conversation, he nevertheless kept bringing up other women around her, she kept saying "that really bothers me and I know it's not logical but we can really just end it," and he kept saying "no sorry I'll stop!" until in the end he sexted a friend of hers who was sitting right next to her as they were all hanging out, and she decided to simply end the relationship: all of it, including the friendship. She felt betrayed by him.

Okay so that was a lot of information but I relate it here because it leads up to what I've finally concluded and what I need to find a way to communicate to her, but which I anticipate to be a difficult, possibly contentious conversation:

A. I don't think she wanted to just open up the marriage sexually, I think she wanted another romantic relationship. AND I'M OKAY WITH THIS! But we need to call things what they are. Because pretending otherwise led to A LOT of confusion in this poor friend of hers--and led to an ended friendship for her as well of course.

B. I don't think she's psychologically constituted for non-monogamous sex on her side of things that is NOT tied with an at least quasi-dedicated romantic relationship. Again: I AM OKAY WITH THIS. I have no particular desire to start up romance with other women but I have absolutely no intention of forbidding her from acting on such feelings for others. We have children and our home and family come first--I know this is a controversial sentiment for some here but I'm just telling you how it is for us--but if she ALSO feels romantic attachments to others and wants to do things about that, what we do is talk and plan and love each other. I would not forbid this. And would not resent not being "allowed" to do the same on my end because I have literally no desire for it.

C. The kicker, the really really bad thing: Basically, I'm not willing to give up my kink. It has turned out to be by far one of the most fulfilling experiences _of my life_, seriously of my life. I mean, I'd give it up if she demanded it as a condition of our continued marriage or something (I doubt it would get that far) but the undeniable fact is this would cause deep, incredible resentment probably forever. She has to know this. (Why do I call this "the really really bad thing?" Because one simple solution to all this, now that her own relationship has ended on a very sour note, would be just to close up shop and treat this as a lark that we tried and turned out not to like. Nope. On my end, I liked it very very much. Not just "like" but, it's like, I've found a part of myself. That kind of thing. And because of this, I'm for all intents and purposes drawing a line that disallows the simple solution of just closing the marriage back up. Again, I'd do it if she really demanded it, but the emotional consequences for me, and hence for her by proxy, would be very, very serious.)

I just.... what do you think? Do you hate me? Are we horrible people? Do you have experiences that make it possible to give advice to someone in my position? I'm not much of an advice-asker-for. I welcome any comment. Please don't hate me.
 
I am married to a man like you who has in his case kinks that he enjoys and I do not. He too has used polyamory as currency/bribe to gain what he wants.

It has not been an easy road for us. Please do not say to your wife I let you have other partners now I need you to participate in my kink. My husband did and it has caused me not to trust him intimately. I love him but his requests to get his kink needs met by me drive another wedge between us. We are working on things but it is a 3 steps forward one step back situation.

He has my full permission to find play partners outside our marriage but the pickings here are slim or bat shit crazy so he has no play partner. So he repeatedly brings up his fantasies despite my pleas that he knock it the hell off. It makes me resentful and disgusted Many days I end up leaving and finding refuge with Murf who frankly is a better match for me.

I am sure he probably resents me too for my relationship with Murf. If I had to do my life over again while I love Butch dearly I would not marry him again. Not because I don't love him but because of the kink factor. It skeeves me out that much and it is very important to him. It is not fair to ask him to change for me and be miserable.
 
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Hi, SYS. If I understand correctly, you engage in your kink outside of your marriage? Your wife doesn't participate? If so, I don't see why you'd have to close your marriage and stop your kink just because your wife's fwb didn't work out. Has she asked to close the marriage and for you to stop participating in kink? If not, since you have no desire to close, I'd consider closing a non-issue at the moment.

As far as making mistakes, that's just part of life. No one does poly or life perfectly. IMHO, screw ups are often the fastest teachers. It sucks that your wife is hurting, but feelings are temporary. At some point the pain will end. In the mean time, my suggestion is just to be loving and supportive while she works through her pain. It's her job to work through the lessons she's learned and her feelings...not yours. Likewise, it's her job to determine what shape her future relationships take. And, it's her job to work through her insecurities and jealousies for future relationships. Honestly, this guy just didn't sound like the right fit for her. She may well be able to do a fwb with a guy who is more honest. Or, she might want a full on poly relationship...or a closed relationship with you. That's for her to decide.
 
I also don't see a problem at this point. One relationship ended, so what. Does she need to change agreements? Is she suddenly jealous?

I hear guilt perhaps speaking through you, perhaps you think you caused her pain, or perhaps you guilt yourself for being sexually open. Or, you fear she will demand to close, but... up to now she didn't, did she?

I think you can tell her the three points you have written above. They are well formulated, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. If she asks, you just tell her you still prefer to be sexually open on your part, you are ok with her being monogamous or not, maybe even polyamorous, and she can take the space to make her decision after she heals a little. There is no rule that you both should be dating at the same time.

How long has it been since the breakup? If a few days (or even weeks), leave hard conversations for later if possible, and in every case leave a final decision for later.

edit: I understand how kink can fill your life. I think it might be temporary or not. It's ok.
 
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Just because you both agreed to non-monogamy does not mean you both always have to have other sex partners at the same time. She may need some time to grieve the loss of her FWB, but it doesn't mean you can't still see the person or people you have been seeing to get your kink on. Nor does it mean she won't meet someone else and have another FWB, lover, or whatever. I think you are making the end of her relationship with her friend a bigger thing than it is.
 
I had to learn some stuff when my marriage ended and I became free. Probably the biggest lesson has been this:

I can't do casual sex arrangements.

FWB, FB, any of that "no feels allowed" stuff...it's not for me. Because if I'm detached enough from a partner to just do the sex with no feels, the experience will feel lacking and I won't want to keep on doing it. If the sex is amazing, I'm probably going to get feels. The ones worth continuing to see, are the ones I have good feels for. And I do not want to bounce from one casual partner to the next and rack up a hundred new sex partners trying to avoid catching feelings for them...nor would that even work.

In other words, setting out as though I can flip my emotions on and off like a light switch, is complete nonsense. I have to reserve the right to develop affectionate/romantic feelings for a partner, and then it will either happen, or it won't.

The important thing for me was to separate feelings from logistics. Just because I love someone does not mean that we need to hop on the escalator, intro to families, be "boyfriend and girlfriend", stake claim to each other, make babies, open a joint bank account, or live together EVER. It is a completely valid thing, to have legit attachment to someone and for them to be over there doing their own thing, and me be over here doing my own thing, and us to come together and enjoy each other sometimes.

Now. This isn't just me, and this isn't that weird. This might be women. This might be "some people." I have no idea. But figuring out how your heart works is part of being self aware and hence part of being successful in relationships. As for the jealousy, that's another issue she's going to have to deal with. Why exactly was the jealousy cropping up? Did she feel insecure like she didn't have an established and safe status with the bf? Was it the way he talked about women? Was it the conflict in her heart about what the supposed rules of engagement versus what was forming up? There is more to jealousy than basic possessiveness, more often than not. I'd encourage her to chew on those ideas, talk them over with anyone she feels comfortable with, and form a complete understanding of her feelings and the reasons for them, whether she pursues another relationship-thing, or not.
 
My wife was jealous to the point where I never even mentioned my GF, her name, when or where I was seeing her etc. Even though she had multiple steady BF's she still had the same illogical feelings. She got mad at me one day and yelled at me. She asked how could I NOT be jealous? I'm simply not like that. I begged to hear every juicy detail of her dates.

So YOUR challenge is to get what you want, her to get more of what she wants and to do it all without causing friction in your marriage. Have her post in the personal section here or join PoF/OKCupid
 
I could be wrong here. But you seem to be saying this in a nutshell...

1) My wife and I opened the marriage so I could kink and she could have more sex.

2) My wife recently broke up with her FWB.

3) I'm afraid she's going to ask me to go back to a Closed marriage.

4) I don't want to.

5) But if she asked I would do it. But with deep resentment.​


So basically you are "pre-worrying" and planning to do something you don't really want to do (Close) when you know you'd be resentful.
  • Since she's NOT asking you to Close, don't pre-worry.
  • If she DOES ask you to Close? Be honest. Say "No. I like being able to do my kink. I do not want to close." Then you don't have to be resentful that you are choosing to do something you don't want to do.

Keep it simpler on yourself, dude. This seems to be more about YOU managing YOUR anxiety than her coping with her recent break up. You seem to be cranking up your own anxiety rather than taking away from it. If you find hearing all the details about her dating jacks up your anxiety? Maybe you tell her you have found you prefer the Cliff Notes version -- "I am seeing X. We are now sharing sex and use safer sex practices like ____. I am no longer seeing X" like share only the the "big news worthy" items. You don't want to hear the play-by-play as it goes down because then you get anxious. That has to do with information management agreements. If you do not have those agreements made, make them now.

If she's dating people, she's going to have some be great and have some be duds. Accept this.

Don't wig out because the first one she went out with did not work out as she hoped. It's her dating, so let (her dating) be HER worry. Not yours.

If you have come to realize that her having romances don't bug you? Tell her you have come to realize romances don't bug you, and they can be on the table on her side as well as FWB. Leave it at that. And let her side of the Open relationship be hers to manage. If she wants to take a break from dating to heal from her recent break up, she can. That's her business. It has nothing to do with how you manage your side. Don't jump the gun thinking she wants you to Close.

She can always ASK you to do things. You can say "yes" or "no." Say "no" if she asks you to do something that you do not want to do.

Right now I get the vibe that you are all "Oh no! She broke up! Now I won't get to kink! I'll tell her romance is ok and then maybe I get to keep on kinking!" when really these things are separate issues.

If you find you are now good with romances on the table, you just tell her.

If she asks you to Close and you don't want to? You tell her she can Close her side, but you do not want to Close your side.

Keep this WAY easier on yourself.

Galagirl
 
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Okay yes. This is a thing I do sometimes--jump the gun on things out of anxiety. "Pre-worrying" as it was called above.

Okay, you guys have said some helpful things. Thank you for that.

To clarify one thing--I said in the OP that it was kind of like "She'll do it for more sex, and I'll do it to explore the kink," but that was an oversimplification bordering on just plain not correct. It was originally just "She'll do it for more sex, and I'm welcome to try sex outside the marriage too if I want." It was a couple of weeks into things that my wife actually suggested "you know, this would be a great chance to explore that thing..." and it took some more weeks for me to go for it.
 
This just sounds like "hotwifing" scenario.
What does this have to do with polyamory?

Have you tried getting advice on hotwifing sites?
 
This just sounds like "hotwifing" scenario.
What does this have to do with polyamory?

Have you tried getting advice on hotwifing sites?

OP has not told us what his kink is, which is fine, so please let us not assume it has anything to do with this.

And as he has mentioned that it's something wife wants NOTHING to do with, I have assumed that it isn't that, and that he's off elsewhere getting his play on and exploring his kink, whatever that may be, elsewhere...and wife had what should have only been a casual sex arrangement on the side but she got feels.

Which wasn't "allowed."

Honestly I don't think that's fair. For anyone to ever say, "no feelings allowed." It's to the point where I'll tell a date, like on the FIRST date, I reserve the right to feel anything I feel towards you. If emotions bother you, if me telling you I had loving feelings even fairly early on would freak you out, just don't see me a second time. Because I might or might not feel whatever I feel at any time, and I don't want it to be a big issue.

Never again will I want to have a relationship with anyone who wants to tell me what I can or cannot feel. Never.

I don't think that the wife's jealousy was necessarily healthy...might be something she could work on or work through.

But I do think that this whole arrangement is one of the many recipes that falls under the cookbook of "polyamory." Or at least "non-monogamy." I find it relevant.
 
Hi SunYatSen,

So, did you talk to your wife? How did that go? Sorry I'm a little late here, but I was just wondering.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
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