Redpepper's journey

I say this non-judgmentally and simply as an observation:

Yes, I think you always dreamed of that. However, it seems as if you saw your "poly family" like a solar system, with yourself as the sun around which the planets (your partners) and their moons (your metamours) revolve. Now it seems as if you're just noticing that everyone has their own little solar system.


I'm not trying to start a debate; this is just the way it looks from what i've read, and what i recall.
No judgement taken.

I was the centre of the solar system. I have been for years. At least my own anyway. I didn't fully realize it was my own, and not others , as well. The overlaps were not as evident.

I always described it as each person having a heart home. The shift in everyone concentrating their love elsewhere right now has rocked my sense of wellbeing within my heart home. Perhaps if it was just one, then I would be able to manage, but all of them has been too much. Specifically, Mono, with whom I am most connected (well, was).

I built myself a solid foundation of people who love me around me and I have lost faith that they do, at the moment.

Last night I was able to glimpse that everything will be okay within my heart home. Concentrating on my own sense of heart home will be a big part of healing and grounding again. All while finding compersion for those who are building their own.
 
Mixed with my confusion is what Mono says about himself. He says that he never wants to settle with me and if we break up our household he is terrified that we will be forced to look at being primaries in a married/living together sense. He is struggling to catch up with the fact that my relationship with PN has changed and grown to a place where we parent our child and love each other in a different way than he thought.

In the midst of discovering a new way of doing relationships, where he is honest and communicating, he is struggling with my not having others to fall back on and that he is essentially my only partner. His sense of responsibility in that is overwhelming him and causing him his own anxiety. While he is becoming free he feels he is also becoming tied down. I told him that in my experience that feeling doesn't go away if you add partners to your life. One is not freer with more partners. He needs to discover that himself, though.
 
OK, let's recap. You're really floundering, RP. You've been used to being something of a poly expert, live-in V, active on here, in the RL local poly community, setting up events, having 2 lovers besides your live-ins. Now your whole poly world has fallen apart.

Mono: you loved that you were his "one and only." But you eventually rebelled against his boundary of you only being in an intimate relationship with him, your husband PN, and Derby. Despite his warnings you'd become less important to him if you got more lovers, you ignored that warning and went ahead with Ken and Brad. Then he did become distant, and got a gf and pulled away from you, just as he'd guaranteed he would. You could have trusted his initial words. He told you what would happen and you seemingly ignored it. "Mono draw away from me? That could never happen!" But it has. Maybe you'll trust him more if you remember his clear warning. He was being honest back then, and now his actions match his words.

PN: Your husband, with whom the sex had become lukewarm at best-- "married sex," you called it, as if married sex is never hot and overwhelming. Now he seems to be hot for someone else. He wants to "go mono" with her? Does that mean move out? Will there be some sort of alteration in your already basically sexless marriage?

Derby: your gf: you never say much about her other than doing cultural things together. I don't even know if you two have sex. I've read you to say there is some kissing. Will you continue as is, without the kissing, now that you've broken up?

Brad: I never understood this relationship. It seems OK, but must not mean much to you. I mean, all your real pain seems centered around Mono getting a gf. You just dumped Brad as a bf quite suddenly, with not much angst, it seems. You didn't report on his feelings of distress at being dumped.

Will PN and Mono both move out? Does Mono still want to be your bf in any way, shape or form? Do you want him at all, now that he has a gf? Do you regret taking up with Ken and Brad in the first place, which set this chain of events in action?

And don't answer if you don't want to, but, do you and Mono have sex anymore? You say your connection is lost. Sometimes couples that are fighting still have hot sex (my ex-husband and I did), but sometimes it's the last thing one wants. So, are you horny, my dear? Would sex relieve stress or is it something you can't even contemplate?

Mono's nervous now, being your only lover? Is he still your lover? Does he feel badly you don't trust him or seem to want him much now that you're not the center of his universe?
 
Oh man that's a lot of questions. Some valid and some confusing, as the story you read here is not entirely what is reality. There are always so many levels and stories behind stories. I can't put across every aspect of what happens.

More later.
 
Oh man that's a lot of questions. Some valid and some confusing as the story you read here is not entirely what is reality. There is always so many levels and stories behind stories. I can't put across every aspect of what happens.

More later.

Out of all of your relationships, I think the one with PN is most interesting to me. Not because he's your husband, but because of the apparent stable nature of that relationship, which ultimately drifted into friends only, coparenting only, etc. From your writings earlier in this blog, he struck me as a fairly Buddhistic, calm, oriented fellow who avoids demonstrating outward passion in general, which says 'opposite' of you.

Was there ever any passion? Or was he simply there at a time when he fit your wants, and gradually those wants changed into what others had? I am truly curious, and trying to understand the dynamics a little better.
 
Thanks LR.

I am taking note that you too got through this also. Did you feel your love shift away from what you knew it to be when Maca decided to try poly? I am finding I don't even recognize Mono yet he says the change occurred over a year ago and he just let me in ane admitted it entirely these past two weeks. I've always seen him as all eyes on me and now the shift to all*eyes*on whomever and specifically T is frightening and foreign. I can't believe that he still loves me in that yet I know it isn't rational. Of course he does. I am just so used to hearing him say I am his one and only.... time I guess. Time and experience.

Oh yes absolutely-and I fear it will happen again.
When he first decided to "try poly" it was VERY rough. But, when he settled into dating E things ended up stabilizing very well. I believe because she was just an amazingly graceful and caring person. She took it upon herself to really pointedly ensure that I knew she appreciated my sharing him. She would ask me if specific special dates would work in our calendar, she planned a birthday party for me in her home, she included our children and GG in her attention in a very "sisterly" manner. THAT took all of the angst out of it for me.
I did the same, from the beginning, but she has been the only one to reciprocate. It meant A LOT. I made a point of noting her birthday so I could be sure not to make plans that day, made sure to break out time for Maca and I for Mothers Day, instead of scheduling the whole day for me, so Maca could spend part of it with her (she was a single mom) etc.

However-when the next young lady came into the picture (E moved away); she was very self-centered. Maca was so caught up in her that all of the same reservations and concerns that he wasn't REALLY poly came back to a head.
That situation blew up in everyone's face and his final response was to decide not to date for now because he doesn't believe he is good at relationships.
So-I imagine it will come again and I fully expect that the nerves will re-ignite for me.


THAT SAID-I think it would probably be more similar for me to compare Mono with GG. GG has always insisted that he's mono and that he wants no one but me.
He hasn't considered dating, he doesn't even socialize without me except with his best friend (and Getsui's family). He says he's too busy, which is true, but being busy is a choice he makes and it's my impression that part of why he makes that choice is so that he CAN'T meet someone else.

I am CERTAIN that if he were to switch around and decide he wanted to be poly it would rock my world.
I have often suggested it, I have often even tried to promote it.
But, regardless of those efforts, 20 years of him being mono to me EVEN WHEN I WASN'T DATING HIM AT ALL, him suddenly finding a girlfriend would turn my "normal" upside down.

I love him. I would hold myself accountable to find my way to full acceptance and if our bond and connection wavered or was lost, I would fight to regain it-even against my own feelings of hopelessness or whatever.
But I don't think it would be easy.

I think you are grieving and probably in emotional shock too. I think you might find that if you read some on grief and the loss of a spouse-you may find some of it beneficial for dealing with your emotions right now.
EVERY TIME I read about this and what you are feeling, I think of "Marksbabygirl" (name on here) blog (not on here) about Marks death and how she is coming to terms. I think you have her on your fb. I know Derby does. Maybe go read some of that blog and consider similarities?

FINALLY-
remind yourself that growth and learning, they take time. Never the short amount of time we wish! This is A LOT to take in. A lot of change in a variety of relationships! Be patient with yourself RP. Even good changes are stress! Our minds and bodies need pauses, rest times, when dealing with stress.

I haven't seen you post anything about running or even walking in months. Just sleeping and video games and grief.
Go walk, run if you can. Let your tears flow-who cares, the wind will wash them to sea. But go get some exercise. Seriously-it helps your mind to find a new perspective.
Sleep is important-but so is exercise. Both give you different kinds of rest. Sleep gives rest to your body, exercise gives rest to your mind.

HUGS!
 
I'm not worried about PN. I love him and want him to be happy. If monogamy creates more of that then I will be at peace. He is more of a comfort to me than intense relationship.

THIS makes sense to me. But it's what you are faltering on with Mono. Do you see that? I don't know how or if it's even possible for you to find the path to this sense of confidence with Mono. But it caught my eye and I think it's the key to transitioning from what was, to what will be in that relationship. Maybe.
 
Mono: you loved that you were his "one and only." But you eventually rebelled against his boundary of you only being in an intimate relationship with him, your husband PN, and Derby. Despite his warnings you'd become less important to him if you got more lovers, you ignored that warning and went ahead with Ken and Brad. Then he did become distant, and got a gf and pulled away from you, just as he'd guaranteed he would. You could have trusted his initial words. He told you what would happen and you seemingly ignored it. "Mono draw away from me? That could never happen!" But it has. Maybe you'll trust him more if you remember his clear warning. He was being honest back then, and now his actions match his words.
At the point I met Ken and Brad, I wasn't rebelling against his boundary. He had already fallen for his friend and had not told me. He encouraged me to go out and find someone to take my mind off of the hurt and pain I felt over my break-up with Leo. I took him at his word at that point and felt he was understanding, caring and accepting. It turns out he was going through a huge movement of change and didn't tell me until months later.

PN: Your husband, with whom the sex had become lukewarm at best-- "married sex," you called it, as if married sex is never hot and overwhelming. Now he seems to be hot for someone else. Wants to "go mono" with her? Does that mean move out? Will there be some sort of alteration in your already basically sexless marriage?
I have no idea, at this point. We all want to stay in the house, raise LB and carry on. We all work really well together. The two men fill very different roles for me and it works. So far. There is no need to make huge changes to something that is working, at this point.

Derby: your gf.... You never say much about her other than doing cultural things together, I don't even know if you two have sex. I've read you to say there is some kissing. Will you continue as is, without the kissing, now that you've broken up?
I don't know what will happen. I don't generally talk about my sex life online. A lot of people I know read here and I generally don't advertise what it is I do behind closed doors. I will say that I love Derby and the times we have spent together have been loving, fun and bonding.

Brad: I never understood this relationship. It seems OK, but must not mean much to you. I mean, all your real pain seems centered around Mono getting a gf. You just dumped Brad as a bf quite suddenly with not much angst, it seems. You didn't report on his feelings of distress at being dumped.
I don't know much about how he feels. Both he and Derby have expressed that they are sad, didn't sleep much, had a hard time eating, were confused and I'm sure a whole lot more. I ask them how they are doing from time to time, but it's possible they don't want to share that with me. My lack of talking about how I feel about it is not due to my lack of caring or concern or feelings of sadness and grief.

I have talked here about my biggest concerns and have compartmentalized everything in order to look at one thing at a time. It's only been a week. There is still a lot of overwhelming feelings and distress for me. I can't look at it all at once and it will take some time for me to express how I feel about every aspect of my life.

All my relationships mean a lot to me. Just because I don't talk about one specific one often, doesn't mean I am not loving them or connected to them. Actually, it's more the opposite. I am likely humming along quite nicely and have nothing to say as a result. This upheaval and inability to handle everything in my life does not mean I am not still loving those in my life. It's more about me and not loving and taking and caring of myself that is the issue.

Does Mono still want to be your bf in any way, shape or form? Do you want him at all, now that he has a gf? Do you regret taking up with Ken and Brad in the first place, which set this chain of events in action?
He still wants me to be his primary relationship. I don't know if I want him as a boyfriend, but I am willing to see how things work out with him having another woman in his life before deciding. I don't regret anything and I don't think I set a chain of actions. I think the moment I met Mono change occurred for him. I was something completely different than he had ever known and it changed him over time.

And don't answer if you don't want to, but, do you and Mono have sex anymore? You say your connection is lost. Sometimes couples that are fighting still have hot sex (my ex h and I did), but sometimes it's the last thing one wants. So, are you horny, my dear? Would sex relieve stress or is it something you can't even contemplate?

Mono's nervous now being your only lover? Is he still your lover? Does he feel badly you don't trust him or seem to want him much now that you're not the center of his universe?
Mono and I haven't changed much over the years as far as sex is concerned. ha! :rolleyes:

He feels badly I don't trust that he is doing what he says he is doing and that I am paranoid about every message he gets on his phone. It's completely consumed me these days and I am working on ways to walk through that and find some peace with it. I even get paranoid and anxious when other people are on their phones now. Its been six months of that and I would like to get past that now.
 
Phone Anxiety

Seriously-one of the best things we did when the anxiety about Maca's phone took hold of me was to agree to put them away. We scheduled "no phone" times for when we were together. Also we shut the phones off if it was other times and we were together. Even a few weeks of that helped IMMENSELY. Much like breaking a bone, you just have to stay off of it for 6 weeks, then you can slowly start using it again. We made it so there were NO PHONES buzzing around me for a few weeks, then slowly integrated things back to where it's around most of the day, but not during our date, meals, sleep, shower, sexy times.
 
Thanks for clarifying a bit. It was getting hard for me to feel sympathy correctly, since I didn't really understand the dynamics of the journey too well.

As far as sex, hmmm... seems to me we got a lot more reports of RP/Mono hanky panky back in your first couple years than you may remember. I am glad you're still connecting in that way, at least.
 
LOL! I think, Mags, that may be because they were both here sharing about it, so it was a safe one to discuss. I know I have talked more about my sex life with Maca than with GG, because Maca was on here and he discussed it. But GG is rarely here and I didn't want him to feel I was sharing our private life publicly, behind his back.

I do recall Mono having QUITE a bit to say on that topic when he was posting. ;)
 
LOL! I think Mag, that may be because they were both here sharing about it, so it was a safe one to discuss.
:)
I know I have talked more about my sex life with Maca than with GG, because Maca was on here and he discussed it-but GG is rarely here and I didn't want him to feel I was sharing our private life publicly, behind his back. ;)

This is one reason I stopped using my "real" fake name(s) on some publicly-visible forums. Even though it's not the name on my ID (or my super-ego), people we know would recognize it. They may not search for it because of "polyamory", but they might search for it about other things, some of which over-lap with my partners' and their partners' circles of associates and friends. That's also a reason why I talk about these individuals using gender-ambiguous nouns and pronouns.

(I know I told you (LR) this elsewhere, but I was just quoting it because it's sort of the same thing. It wasn't directed AT you, or any specific individual.)
 
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Out of all of your relationships, I think the one with PN is most interesting to me. Not because he's your husband, but because of the apparent stable nature of that relationship which ultimately drifted into 'friends only', parenting only, etc. From your writings earlier in this blog, he struck me as a fairly buddhistic, calm oriented fellow who avoids demonstrating outward passion in general. Which says 'opposite' of you.

Was there ever any passion? Or was he simply there at a time when he fit your wants, and gradually those wants changed into what others had? I am truly curious, and trying to understand the dynamics a little better.
PN came into my life 15 years ago, after I had identified for years as a lesbian and having been married to a woman. He and my wife tried out a non-monogamous relationship, but she was not into it, and was very much a monogamous lesbian. When our marriage ended, PN and I became closer and eventually married, had a child, bought a house etc. I knew he was the man to do this with, somehow. He has always been a solid reliable man with very deep emotions and values. I admire him greatly. He is, by far, the man I admire most in my life besides my father.

We had passion at the beginning of our relationship and at various times during our relationship. It comes and goes, as is the case with most marriages, I think. Who knows if it will come around again? It might or it might not. These things aren't usually helped by force and we both recognize that. It's better to go with the flow and see what happens.
 
I am CERTAIN that if he were to switch around and decide he wanted to be poly it would rock my world.... him suddenly finding a girlfriend would turn my "normal" upside down.

I love him. I would hold myself accountable to find my way to full acceptance and if our bond and connection wavered or was lost, I would fight to regain it-even against my own feelings of hopelessness or whatever.
But I don't think it would be easy.
This is how I feel about Mono. My world has been rocked over this year.

I think you are grieving and probably in emotional shock too. I think you might find that if you read some on grief and the loss of a spouse-you may find some of it beneficial for dealing with your emotions right now.
EVERY TIME I read about this and what you are feeling, I think of "Marksbabygirl" (name on here) blog (not on here) about Marks death and how she is coming to terms. I think you have her on your fb. I know Derby does. Maybe go read some of that blog and consider similarities?
I think you might be right. I have been chatting a little with Marksbabygirl and her words have been helpful.

FINALLY-
remind yourself that growth and learning, they take time. Never the short amount of time we wish! This is A LOT to take in. A lot of change in a variety of relationships! Be patient with yourself RP. Even good changes are stress! Our minds and bodies need pauses, rest times, when dealing with stress.
Thank you. I am being as patient as I can be while trying to keep up as well.

I haven't seen you post anything about running or even walking in months. Just sleeping and video games and grief.
Go walk, run if you can. Let your tears flow-who cares, the wind will wash them to sea. But go get some exercise. Seriously-it helps your mind to find a new perspective.
Sleep is important-but so is exercise. Both give you different kinds of rest. Sleep gives rest to your body, exercise gives rest to your mind.

HUGS!
I haven't been walking to the regular place I walk because for years now there have been little notes left for me by Mono under a rock and I am afraid to look there as I don't know if he is leaving them any more. I have been walking on my lunch break to a nearby garden with tails in it. I have a beautiful view of the ocean and the mountains and it has helped me relax and get my feelings out. There is a bench there that has seen many tears these last two weeks.

Sleep has almost returned. Only up for a couple of hours a night now clinging to Mono while I lay there paralyzed by fear and anxiety. Thoughts run through my head over and over again and I allow myself to get through them and then self talk my way through them. It seems that the only time we fully bond is at night when we cling to each other. I suppose that is a hopeful sign. The eating isn't back yet.
 
I'm not worried about PN. I love him and want him to be happy. If monogamy creates more of that then I will be at peace. He is more of a comfort to me than intense relationship.

THIS makes sense to me. But-it's what you are faltering on with Mono.
Do you see that?

I don't know how or if it's even possible for you to find the path to this sense of confidence with Mono.
But-it caught my eye and I think it's the key to transitioning from what was, to what will be in that relationship.
Maybe
Mono is not just a comfort to me, he is a lot more on the intense side. I do see your point though and would agree. I do need to find that path that leads to a sense of confidence with Mono. Regardless of where our lives go.
 
Seriously-one of the best things we did when the anxiety about Maca's phone took hold of me,
was to agree to put them away. We scheduled "no phone" times for times we were together for sure. Also-we shut the phones off if it was other times and we were together.
Even a few weeks of that helped IMMENSELY.

Much like breaking a bone-you just have to stay off of it for 6 weeks, then you can slowly start using it again.

We made it so there was NO PHONE buzzing around me for a few weeks, then slowly integrated things back to where it's around most of the day-but not during our date, meals, sleep, shower, sexy times.
Its more like I struggle with what I perceive as secret rather than private. Its not rational for me to think that I have any right to what he talks about and to whom yet I don't trust him at the same time. If that makes sense.

I know he chatted with women on line before and I didn't struggle with it. It was when those chats became flirts and then sexting and then meet ups that I lost my sense of trust that he was going from private to secret.

He could stay off his phone around me all he wants. When he isn't around me I know he is on line and on his phone catching up with his new interest, T and who knows what else. Really, I would love to not care and have the attitude that it doesn't matter because we are okay, but as we aren't okay any contact with any other woman is a huge threat right now.

I hope to one day just say "fuck it" throw my hands in the air and get on with my own life for me. Leaving him to do whatever, knowing that at the end of the day, we're good.
 
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Mixed with my confusion is what Mono says about himself. He says that he never wants to settle with me and if we break up our household he is terrified that we will be forced to look at being primaries in a married/living together sense.

He still wants me to be his primary relationship.

?

I would be confused too.

Wishing you the best, RP. It's been tough, lately, reading your story -- not sleeping, not eating, that stuff is serious, and will affect your ability to do anything safely, sanely, and healthily. I hope you get past it all soon. And, to be entirely frank, I hope you find your way back into a relationship with Derby... I know I'm projecting, but I've always thought of you and her as being at least a little analogous to me and Gia, so to see you break up with her because of trouble with another partner was really saddening. I know there was more going on, and that you were feeling overwhelmed in general, but, yeah, rough stuff.
 
?

I hope you find your way back into a relationship with Derby... I know I'm projecting, but I've always thought of you and her as being at least a little analogous to me and Gia, so to see you break up with her because of trouble with another partner was really saddening. I know there was more going on, and that you were feeling overwhelmed in general, but, yeah, rough stuff.

Yeah, I was one of the one exclaiming how 4 relationships, plus a kid, plus a FT job and a house, plus her hobbies, was too much! Esp with this intense soul searching and fear with Mono. Maybe just a break from the relationship with Derby (Brad)...

I mean, I just moved, and it was a ton of work house hunting (nerve wracking!) and packing, and it's a ton of working unpacking and organizing--it's a big stress in other words, and Ginger has been getting the short end of the stick lately. I knew I'd have less energy for him for a while (even tho we are now living closer, as planned), and told him, and he was just chill, he said no worries. Didn't take it personally. I hope D and G would be as understanding.

I have no advice, this does just seem a voyage of self discovery... but I do care and I want you to love yourself.

Cuz if you don't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love anyone else?--(Rupaul tm)
 
All of that makes sense RP.
It is a struggle. So much change and all so fast.
:(

Just keep reminding yourself to focus a minute at a time if you need to and don't give up on you. There's a solution out there.

PN actually suggested the book I quote most often regarding finding the solution to a given problem. :)
You need a "creative adaptive" solution. :)

XOXOXOXOXO
 
Mags- all my partners were and are understanding but I can only ask for so much time and patience. I was finding that I was not giving them the standard of attention I feel is enough for them. I like to give my all and in doing that I lost memory, was stressed out, not doing well at work, lost track of myself and those around me. Everything was an effort and done half ass. It wore on me and I became someone I don't like. Its been slowly getting worse over a year now. Something had to give.

Yesterday I delivered a hanging basket to my my ex wife's mum for mothers day. She had me buy one and deliver it. I can't remember a time I did an errand like that in full consciousness and in full attention. Every moment of it I was aware of what I was doing. It been too long that I have had enough focus to do such an errand. I haven't had time or energy to give in that way for way to long.
 
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