Emotional energy and dating multiples

To be clear, Spork, the man who calls me every few months is not making a booty call. Not that there would be anything wrong with that, but the fact is we've been in this relationship for going on two years and, actually, we usually do not have sex when we get together. He calls me for my company - to have a meal together, to be affectionate, and to talk. We might see each other for two or maybe even three dates within a span of two weeks, and then not see each other for three or four months. It may sound rather platonic, but it's not. We make out, fondle, and snuggle with each other, and we both consider it a "romantic" relationship. As for sex, now that I think about it, we've only had full-on intercourse twice in all this time. We are very fond of each other, I care about him a great deal. I am not just a booty call to him.

I simply don't need frequent contact in order to be in a relationship. It works for me. I am not recommending my approach or pushing how I do relationships on anyone else. I described how often I need to see or hear from a lover, shared my views on expectations (at which I arrived after years of working on being self-aware, present, and living in the moment, along with a little Zen philosophy), and a little bit about how my views come into play in one of my relationships, because I was asked.

. . . sometimes we need what we need. And while it sucks to be into somebody who isn't aligned with your needs, and be hurt by that, it doesn't mean that your needs are not valid, or your position needs adjustment.
Well, see, if you (the general you at large, not specifically you) are into someone whose needs/philosophies/approach do not match your own, why indulge in feeling hurt? It is an indulgence, because if one is present and seeing things clearly, one would know that the object of their affection is not going to meet their needs, and so then the hurt is a choice that they make. It absolutely is the attachment (to wanting something from someone who cannot give it), the wistful hoping (that you will get the kind of relationship you want from someone who is incompatible), and the expectations (that people will meet needs they cannot meet) which set us up for disappointment and hurt. The other person isn't actually hurting you; your unrealistic expectations/daydreams/fantasies about what you wish you could or "should" have are what hurts you.

So, yes, one's position does need adjustment -- with regard to that person, not necessarily with everyone. It's perfectly valid to want what you want, but unrealistic to assume or expect that you're going to get it. Either you leave a relationship and look for someone who can realistically meet your needs and wants, or you adjust your expectations and make compromises you can live with.
 
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This is cool if it's what you want, but recognize that you're looking to him to define your relationship. Nycindie's relationships work for her becasue she defines what she wants and gets involved with people who match that. You can have a non-escalator relationship in which you would be a girlfriend and a high priority and see your partner frequently if you're clear about wanting that. The key here is to be solid in yourself about what you want, not to look to your partner to tell you how it's gonna be.
Karen, I always appreciate your wisdom! Obviously there is more to the situation than is possible to write in one short post. I think it is time for some serious soul-searching and then some discussions about what we both want and whether it is going to be possible to fit it together. We will see.
 
To be clear, Spork, the man who calls me every few months is not making a booty call. Not that there would be anything wrong with that, but the fact is we've been in this relationship for going on two years and, actually, we usually do not have sex when we get together. He calls me for my company - to have a meal together, to be affectionate, and to talk. We might see each other for two or maybe even three dates within a span of two weeks, and then not see each other for three or four months. It may sound rather platonic, but it's not. We make out, fondle, and snuggle with each other, and we both consider it a "romantic" relationship. As for sex, now that I think about it, we've only had full-on intercourse twice in all this time. We are very fond of each other, I care about him a great deal. I am not just a booty call to him.

I simply don't need frequent contact in order to be in a relationship. It works for me. I am not recommending my approach or pushing how I do relationships on anyone else. I described how often I need to see or hear from a lover, shared my views on expectations (at which I arrived after years of working on being self-aware, present, and living in the moment, along with a little Zen philosophy), and a little bit about how my views come into play in one of my relationships, because I was asked.


Well, see, if you (the general you at large, not specifically you) are into someone whose needs/philosophies/approach do not match your own, why indulge in feeling hurt? It is an indulgence, because if one is present and seeing things clearly, one would know that the object of their affection is not going to meet their needs, and so then the hurt is a choice that they make. It absolutely is the attachment (to wanting something from someone who cannot give it), the wistful hoping (that you will get the kind of relationship you want from someone who is incompatible), and the expectations (that people will meet needs they cannot meet) which set us up for disappointment and hurt. The other person isn't actually hurting you; your unrealistic expectations/daydreams/fantasies about what you wish you could or "should" have are what hurts you.

So, yes, one's position does need adjustment -- with regard to that person, not necessarily with everyone. It's perfectly valid to want what you want, but unrealistic to assume or expect that you're going to get it. Either you leave a relationship and look for someone who can realistically meet your needs and wants, or you adjust your expectations and make compromises you can live with.

And what you have is cool, because it's good for both of you.

As to the rest, I think that there is a learning process involved, and that we should give ourselves that and forgive ourselves the need to take some time and figure things out. It's OK to not realize that a situation is going to cause issues for you, and to learn it from experience. It's OK to work your way through your feelings in whatever time you need to do so...much like grief, sometimes what we know and tell ourselves might be much more controllable than what we feel. And sometimes we don't know just how misaligned we are with someone until we try and it doesn't work out. The important thing is to gain what wisdom we can from the whole deal and move on with new insight and not repeat any mistakes we might have made.

Now I'll say right now that I think the man I was involved with was more aware of what his emotional limitations and boundaries were, but he deliberately obfuscated them to get what he wanted. I believe that he was deceitful, and I think he probably continues to be. I see no reason to make any excuses for him at this point...it really doesn't matter... I, on the other hand, was also deceptive, but more along the lines of being wrong about myself, what I needed and wanted and was capable of. I needed to learn. And he was a pretty strong lesson for me.

I'm just saying that it's OK and the OP need not beat herself up over things not working out there, not being whatever it was that man wanted, it's no failing of hers. The thing is to accept the gift of self-awareness and growth and wisdom and take it into the future. Not worry about what HIS deal was, even though that's hard to do, but to focus on "I have this need. It is a valid need to have. It doesn't make me 'needy' and 'clingy' and it doesn't make me a bad partner. I simply need to seek someone who aligns better with it next time around." And accept that it's alright to mourn the relationship and let the process happen in its own natural time...so long as it doesn't become the sort of wallow that has a negative effect on her quality of life.
 
Of course it's a learning process. That's what relationships are for, IMHO - learning about ourseves and others. Nowhere in anything I wrote did I say anyone has to "get it right" the first time, as far as staying in the moment and letting go of expectations. Staying present takes practice, and we cannot let go of expectations if we don't first recognize that we have them and examine whether those expectations are what is tripping us up. In fact, by simply seeing what aor expectations are, they no longer have power over us. We get into the most mischief when we operate blindly and unconsciousy.
 
Of course it's a learning process. That's what relationships are for, IMHO - learning about ourseves and others. Nowhere in anything I wrote did I say anyone has to "get it right" the first time, as far as staying in the moment and letting go of expectations. Staying present takes practice, and we cannot let go of expectations if we don't first recognize that we have them and examine whether those expectations are what is tripping us up. In fact, by simply seeing what aor expectations are, they no longer have power over us. We get into the most mischief when we operate blindly and unconsciousy.

I am also not really on board with totally letting go of expectations. I'm just more wanting to be honest and upfront about them so that no one is confused or blindsided.

And I think that to some degree, it's impossible to have NO expectations.

I expect that my partners won't deliberately deceive me in ways that are hurtful. I expect that my partners will not place logistical or financial burdens on me that I cannot bear right now. I expect my partners not to make assumptions about emotions or stages in our relationships without discussing these things with me. I expect my partners not to freak out and declare themselves emotionally unavailable and push me out of their lives, should I develop emotional attachment to them. I expect my partners to not demand monogamous fidelity of me.

But I've learned to communicate this stuff, and so I do communicate it. As early in a potential relationship as possible. Because I'd much rather that someone back away from me (reject my interest) BEFORE I have an investment of any kind in them, than after.

What you are saying reminds me just a smidge of the "desire is the root of all suffering" concept...but like "expectations are the root of all disappointment"...which is something I've read elsewhere, but again, I'm not certain that it's entirely possible to eliminate both or either.

(this is REALLY interesting. Thank you for discussing these ideas with me!)
 
I think letting go of *general* expectations is difficult, if not impossible, and not necessarily something we need to do. One of my *general* expectations in a relationship is that I am never placed second to a partner's other partners; in other words, I expect to not be called or considered a secondary, and I expect that if my partner and I have plans, he will not cancel those plans or change them in favor of one of his other partners. (Unless it's an emergency.)

But letting go of expectations in a *specific* relationship or with a *specific* person, I think, is necessary and possible. Or maybe it isn't so much letting go of the expectation as it is letting go of the person. Woody, fortunately, is very strongly opposed to hierarchy and treats each relationship as entirely separate from the others, so he meets the expectation I mention above. But if he suddenly decided to declare Stella, for example, as his primary and call the rest of us his secondaries, I would then have to decide whether to let go of the expectation of not being called or considered secondary when it comes to my relationship with Woody specifically, or whether to let go of Woody.
 
One of my *general* expectations in a relationship is that I am never placed second to a partner's other partners . . . . I expect that if my partner and I have plans, he will not cancel those plans or change them in favor of one of his other partners.

I expect that my partners won't deliberately deceive me in ways that are hurtful. I expect that my partners will not place logistical or financial burdens on me that I cannot bear right now. I expect my partners not to make assumptions about emotions or stages in our relationships without discussing these things with me. I expect my partners not to freak out and declare themselves emotionally unavailable and push me out of their lives, should I develop emotional attachment to them. I expect my partners to not demand monogamous fidelity of me.

See, all these things that both of you listed as expectations - I see as preferences. Certainly, I prefer not to be considered "secondary" in a relationship. I prefer that a lover not cancel on me because someone else he's seeing wants his time. I prefer that a lover be honest and not lie to me. And so on. I prefer... I prefer... I prefer a lot of thing -- but I don't expect them. To me, having expectations places a demand on someone else, but preferences belong to to me. I see not indulging in expectations as honoring both my autonomy and agency and that of my lovers.
 
See, all these things that both of you listed as expectations - I see as preferences. Certainly, I prefer not to be considered "secondary" in a relationship. I prefer that a lover not cancel on me because someone else he's seeing wants his time. I prefer that a lover be honest and not lie to me. And so on. I prefer... I prefer... I prefer a lot of thing -- but I don't expect them. To me, having expectations places a demand on someone else, but preferences belong to to me. I see not indulging in expectations as honoring both my autonomy and agency and that of my lovers.

And I would place the question of "preferences versus expectations" on a scale of how strong and drastic my response is likely to be. Is the thing something I can deal with, if the person is worth it, or is it going to be a dealbreaker? A preference is something I might say "I'd rather you didn't do that, but I guess I can cope with it if I want you in my life badly enough" where an expectation is "No matter how intoxicating I find you, this will hurt me in ways I just can't put up with, and I respect myself too much to allow it. I'll discontinue the relationship if I see this going down."

Probably one of the biggest and most vital pieces of growth I've been working on, has been the "power dynamic" concept in my relationships. And no, I don't mean "power exchange" a la BDSM, this has nada to do with that. It's this pattern that took hold when I was a teenager and burned through partners like wildfire...persisted in my marriage...and occurred in at least the first couple of love interests I had after marriage. The pattern was that one or the other of us in any given relationship/interaction would have far more intense loving feelings than the other. The one who didn't care had all the power, the one who was in love had none. And got hurt. Always. Sometimes I was on one end of this spectrum, sometimes the other. If I had intense feelings for somebody, it was a guarantee they would have no feelings for me and leave my heart feeling stomped on. And to connect this to our speak about preferences and expectations, they would usually treat me with a great deal of disrespect and disregard along the way...I'd put up with anything, because I wanted so badly for it to work, I was so emotionally invested in them. I'd put up with them not loving me back...but when they turned away and deprived me of their time and attention, I was a mess.

So. I have to have the self respect to not grasp onto people who don't care about me. To not tolerate being disrespected or disregarded. This has to be enough of a priority, to be an expectation...by saying, "I have no expectations of you"...in the sense that I told guys I was so into them, but it was ok if they wanted to play it casual, they didn't have to love me back, etc...I allowed myself to be treated like crap and eventually kicked to the curb. I won't be doing that anymore. If that means that I don't fool around with people for whom I feel "the bonfire" but stick to the ones where we are both at a more comfortable level of feels that is in better balance, then fine.
 
Cyndie, I understand what you're saying. I think it's a difference in approach, that's all. I *do* place a demand on my partners that they respect me and my boundaries. One of those boundaries, as I said, is that I never be pushed aside or have plans canceled on me in favor of another partner *unless* it's an emergency. That's one of my "you push this, you're done" things; it's a hard limit for me, because to me it's disrespectful and tells me that I am unimportant. I have enough trouble with my self-esteem without having partners reinforce the negatives...

So for me, that is an expectation. It's a demand I make. My partners can choose whether or not to meet the demand; if they choose not to, they'll probably lose me, but that's still their choice.

There are other things I would probably say are preferences, based on what you've said. I *prefer* that Woody sometimes be the one to call me or set up us getting together at a time other than our scheduled night, because if I'm the only one making those overtures, I wonder if I'm pestering him, or whether he actually wants to see/speak to me or just does so because he feels sorry for me. Those are thoughts I work to correct, based on BS from the past, and I have told Woody that. So because I know he's busy, and because I know the request is based more on past issues than on now issues, while I *prefer* that he be the one to sometimes initiate contact or invite me over, I don't require it and it isn't a break-upable offense if he doesn't meet the request.
 
To be clear, putting my wants out there as preferences does not mean that I would just accept whatever crumbs someone throws my way. It simply means I acknowledge that I have no control over the universe, or what other people do. I prefer or want a lover to show up when he says he will. But I keep my expectations low. Though I don't expect anything to go the way I prefer, if I've been dissed or lied to or given too many ridiculous bullshit excuses, that guy is gone and it's over. Because two of my personal boundaries in love relationships are that I feel respected and that I feel valued. But those are my boundaries to protect, not rules placed on someone else, so it's up to me to choose what to do about it if I feel disrespect etc., just as my preferences are mine to own and let them be known if need be, but without placing expectations or obligations on anyone. I want to be treated well because a guy likes treated me well and finds joy in doing so, not because he feels obligated to meet my expectations.
 
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I prefer or want a lover to show up when he says he will. ...if I've been dissed or lied to or given too many ridiculous bullshit excuses, that guy is gone and it's over.
Nicely said! That pretty much sums it up for me as well -- like, if someone's in the habit of missing/cancelling dates, I don't obsess on it... but I'd better not hear via mutual friends that it's ME who's "not trying hard enough" to get together. (BTDT.)

The "alone time" thing is VERY important. Even when I was maintaining 5-6 intimate relationships (from someone I went out to dinner with once or twice a month, up to my beloved housemates), I made time to work on my writing, & (before we could afford a VCR) there was exactly one TV show I adored & would NOT miss (though guests were welcome).

But (returning to the root topic) I can't say that I ever felt "stretched thin" or "emotionally drained" or any suchlike. Heck, whether it's lively converation over a nice dinner or hours of wonderful sex, I'm likely to be MORE open to contact with others. The only limiting factor is the number of hours in the day.
 
I want to be treated well because a guy likes treated me well and finds joy in doing so, not because he feels obligated to meet my expectations.

I couldn't agree more. To some degree, this is part of why I have a hard time asking for things, because I'm afraid that the very act of asking will place obligation.

(Clearly, I was raised in a "Guess" culture rather than an "Ask" culture, if you're familiar with the dichotomy - http://www.thewire.com/national/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/19730/)
 
I have a hard time asking for things, because I'm afraid that the very act of asking will place obligation.

I'd venture to guess that you have a good amount of fear of rejection going here and that this is not simply a question of "how to ask." The more clear and confident you are, in and of yourself, about your value and your preferences, the more that others provide satisfaction with quite minimal verbal asking on your part. You do most of your asking with your countenance, not with your words. When your words say one thing but your countenance belies another, people pick up on the muddled message. People respond mostly to countenance, not words. Your fear of placing obligation is just fear that you will be harshly judged/rejected because you're not feeling all that valued by you. If you had a clear confidence about yourself, you would have no issue at all with what you want with someone and how you indicate that to them.

The way to work with this is not to endlessly negotiate with the other person, for that just leads to more negotiation and likely more disappointing interaction. You alter yourself first (think differently, take a different perspective, get a better attitude, uplift yourself, etc.), change your countenance and only then will you see the change happen in your relationship. It's not about how to ask for the things you need. It's always about how you see and feel about yourself. When you feel a clear beam of self appreciation, you don't have to do much verbal negotiating with others to have what feels right to you. The typical relationship advice is "Ask for what you need" and that is true, but most people assume that you ask with words. We do the vast majority of our asking with the way we carry ourselves and not at all with the words we use. Our words can certainly reflect our inner world and only then are they useful.
 
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This is interesting. We have different feelings around the concept of obligation, too.

In many ways I LOVE obligation. It structures my life and my relationships. If I don't feel obligated to do something, there's a very good chance I simply WON'T do it. I absolutely do feel obligated to people that I care about, it is one strong measure of my care for them. And I expect them to take their obligations to me seriously, too.

But reading that Asker vs. Guesser thing... Yeah, I'm definitely somewhere on the spectrum. What I cannot abide is someone who appears to be entitled and imposes obligations on me even if I push back and indicate that I don't really want to consent to that obligation. A great example is the gal I met at the bar last Friday. While I want new people to come to Voodoo and encourage them to do it, she basically volun-TOLD me that I was going to come and give her a ride. I accepted her phone number and gave her a maybe, but I really wanted to say NO. I told her "no promises." Fact is...if I'm her ride, now we are kind of involved in each other's lives a little and there is a likelihood you're going to call me next time you want favors...(given my perception of her)...and then I'd also have to take her home, which is way out of my way since I tend to go down the street and stay with Fire and Hefe after the parties, which always run late.

But it's like this woman picked up on the fact that I'm mature, responsible, and dependable and figured, "Good. I can use you." Screw that! I felt VERY imposed upon. The respect in which I'm a "Guesser" is that I do try and exercise some discretion and only ask people for reasonable things, and I expect the same from them...and I don't assume that I'm entitled to their consent to an obligation. And the first time I meet someone, I'm not going to ask them for anything at all!
 
I absolutely do feel obligated to people that I care about, it is one strong measure of my care for them. ... The respect in which I'm a "Guesser" is that I do try and exercise some discretion and only ask people for reasonable things, and I expect the same from them...and I don't assume that I'm entitled to their consent to an obligation. And the first time I meet someone, I'm not going to ask them for anything at all!

So for someone that you DO care about, if THEY make an assumption that you have an obligation to them, one you haven't consented to, how do you handle that?

I don't run into this problem often with partners, I *do* run into it with family, as I've written about here before. As someone that is VERY prickly about assumed consent (the situation with the chick wanting you to drive would have set me off so hard!), it's an ongoing problem for me.

Your fear of placing obligation is just fear that you will be harshly judged/rejected because you're not feeling all that valued by you. {...} If you had a clear confidence about yourself, you would have no issue at all with what you want with someone and how you indicate that to them.
Hmm. I know I have massive fear of rejection issues - the funny (not so funny) thing is that the closer I am to someone the harder it is for me to have confidence in them - I can handle rejection from strangers or acquaintances. It's learning how to handle rejection of a given idea from a partner or close friend and not take it as a rejection of *me* that I have problems with.
 
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I couldn't agree more. To some degree, this is part of why I have a hard time asking for things, because I'm afraid that the very act of asking will place obligation.

(Clearly, I was raised in a "Guess" culture rather than an "Ask" culture, if you're familiar with the dichotomy - http://www.thewire.com/national/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/19730/)

Just wanted to say thanks for that link! Really interesting article and not something I'd heard of before.

This jumped out at me...

We Ask Strangers and Close Friends Libertarian blogger Julian Sanchez offers a sociological reading of Donderi's theory that's worth perusing in full. "The polite indirection of 'Guess Culture' is... often a way of preserving a deliberate ambiguity, which we generally want to do in social relationships where there's an intermediate level of intimacy—whereas relationships at the poles, with either close friends or strangers, tend to be governed by more direct asks," Sanchez writes. "We do this, I think, precisely because those intermediate relationships are ambiguous: We’re indirect because we’re negotiating just where on the gradient we fall ... To ask too directly at that stage can seem rude because it effectively demands a binary verdict on a work in progress."

This is me, exactly. I Ask at work, and in random life situations, grocery store, contractors, whatever. And I Ask my friends, for HUGE things, and they Ask me, and everyone is 100% cool with a yes or a no. But ambiguous people? I expend ENDLESS energy guessing.

What's interesting to me is that Dag, who I've been dating for almost a year and a half, is still someone I Guess with. I hate the idea of asking for something from him and getting a no. He does it with me, too, he'll send ten, "I miss you, would be really great to see you soon" texts, rather than just ask me to meet on a certain day.

Hmmmm. Things to think about.
 
So for someone that you DO care about, if THEY make an assumption that you have an obligation to them, one you haven't consented to, how do you handle that?

I don't run into this problem often with partners, I *do* run into it with family, as I've written about here before. As someone that is VERY prickly about assumed consent (the situation with the chick wanting you to drive would have set me off so hard!), it's an ongoing problem for me.


Hmm. I know I have massive fear of rejection issues - the funny (not so funny) thing is that the closer I am to someone the harder it is for me to have confidence in them - I can handle rejection from strangers or acquaintances. It's learning how to handle rejection of a given idea from a partner or close friend and not take it as a rejection of *me* that I have problems with.

If it's an adult that I care about, and they assume an obligation exists that I did not consent to, I will tell them, "I'm sorry, but I can't do that...I would not have agreed to do that, and I didn't" and I will explain to them why. I will always tell them why, and I will feel that I need to have a good reason. If it's one of my teenage sons, I'll do all of the above and then follow up with a life lesson about how they should not make such assumptions.

Darn good example of that was last week, I told Q that I had plans after work and would not be home until very late. That since it was a Friday night he could stay up as late as he wanted, but he'd be home by himself and not to forget to feed the cat etc. (He's 14 and is addicted to a new video game, I knew where he'd be and what he'd be doing.)

Well, he forgot and texted me in the middle of the day that he decided he wanted to stay after school and he'd need me to come pick him up at about 5 or 6, and he'd let me know when he was ready to go.

I had to text back that no, he needed to ride the bus home, I had plans already and I'd told him so. I need a little bit more notice than a couple of hours before he tries to do something like that.

Another thing that messes with me (the guesser part of me) is those people who will offer help when they really would rather you didn't take them up on it. Just because they think it's the "caring" thing to do. Look if you don't realistically think you can render assistance, then don't say, "If there's anything I can do to help" or "Let me know if I can help"...I don't do that unless I really think I can and want to help. You are offering to obligate yourself. And you can't get fussy if they do accept it.
 
But ambiguous people? I expend ENDLESS energy guessing.

What's interesting to me is that Dag, who I've been dating for almost a year and a half, is still someone I Guess with. I hate the idea of asking for something from him and getting a no. He does it with me, too, he'll send ten, "I miss you, would be really great to see you soon" texts, rather than just ask me to meet on a certain day.

Oh, it's 100% me too - definitely with AnotherArtist, and even sometimes a little with TheKnight (specifically about sex). It's about being afraid of vulnerability, in my case. Probably need to spend a lot of quality time with Brené Brown...
 
Maybe that was what cooled off the Worm King on me...I was asking to see him, after only a couple of weeks. I was laying my cards on the table, seeking clear information, and not playing enough of a guessing game at that stage, trying to get the same from him.

Not that it matters. Just thinking out loud or something here.
 
Oh dear... I did not visit that link. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I am at a point where I cannot bear to read about yet another system of categorization. Guesser, Asker... Conflict Avoidant... Attachment This or That... Empath... Introvert/Extrovert... INTJ, ENFWhatever... Aries, Virgo... Middle Child... This Week's Most Popular Personality Disorder... I know that some of these theories and systems have been around a long time, but for some reason it seems like Western culture is glomming onto the idea of classifying and pathologizing ourselves lately, and while it can be interesting to take a quiz and see where one falls in the categories, I don't think these types of analyses really turn out to be very practical. We start saying, "Oh, that must be my problem and why I do this/feel that/am the way I am," instead of taking a risk.

I think things can be much more simple if we only looked at it differently. Such as simply acknowledging, "I don't have much experience doing X, and so I don't feel very confident at it, but if I start doing X and gain more experience, I'll become more confident." All the "reasons" why one is insecure or fearful can fall away and become irrelevant.

Basically, if you (the wider, general you; I'm not directing this to anyone specific) need an answer to a question, you're going to have to ask someone that question so you can know the answer -- or don't ask the question and be perplexed/frustrated/wondering what the hell the answer is. If you're nervous and fearful about asking, you still have the same choice - do it or not. As Susan Jeffers titled her book: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. There is truth behind this phrase, too: Analysis = Paralysis.

That was a bit of a vent, I know, but hopefully is helpful to someone.
 
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