secondary best hope?

neo2

New member
I'm a straight CIS man, not yet old. I've always wanted polyamory, but even before my circumstances got bad, finding just one woman was so infrequent for me that more than one wasn't realistic. And (I live in a poly mecca) the poly personal ads often say no poly first timers.

But now, bottom line, being someone's poly secondary relationship has become the best (and perhaps still more than) I can hope for.

The circumstances that make this true are unfortunately insoluble. I acquired a daunting array of serious medical issues and disabilities which severely limit me physically (though not sexually), finanacially, and timewise. My extremely limited time has put off the few dating prospects I've found (of course I dialed down my 'standards' of who I was looking for).

My circumstances have also isolated me socially. While I wish I could be more than secondary, it sounds a lot better than being 'friend zoned' (which I've experienced more than my share of), or the 'neither' that I have now.

I imagine that my motivation might be greeted with disdain, as I have only finally decided to look to polyamory as a 'last resort'. But I truly have always felt it in my heart. I've done some reading, including the "Opening Up" book by Taormino.

Advice please?
 
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What exactly are you asking for advice about? You seem to have made up your mind that you are destined (or maybe doomed) to only ever be a secondary partner to someone because of your perceived circumstances. You seem to have decided that being a secondary is better than being friend zoned* or than not having anyone at all. So I'm uncertain what you're asking for from us.

*Personally, I'm irked by the term "friend zone," because it's a term I've most often seen used by men who feel bitter and entitled because they aren't getting laid. Usually the men who use it are the same ones who claim to be "nice guys" and bitch that women only want "bad boys"... while the self-described nice guy is calling said women every name in the book and implying that women owe them pussy.
Not saying that's how *you* are using it. Just expressing distaste for the term.

It also might be important to note that not everyone who is poly does the "primary/secondary" thing. I don't, or at least make every possible effort not to, though some would probably say my husband is my primary by virtue of being my husband. (I disagree; I don't consider him my primary in any way, and he knows that.)
 
It sounds like you are not only socially isolated in terms of dating but all around? Is that accurate? It is hard to be social when dealing with limited time and/or physical energy.

Generally, my suggestions for finding people to date (poly or otherwise) is to be social in some way. Make friends, be part of various communities. I understand you have limited time and physical resources. So perhaps be social when you can, where you can? It's not going to be as much as you'd like but doing what you can may be more helpful than you can imagine right now. Take stock of what you like to do - even in your current circumstances - and examine where you can find people who also like doing what you like to do. Then go make friends among those folks. Over time, you will hopefully find yourself as part of various communities. I tend to prefer in person interactions in making friends. In fact, this forum is the only online place where I think of folks here as friends. (Hello polyamory.com friends!) Lots of people are able to make connections online. This might be an avenue for you.

This will take time and precious energy. It's not an overnight solution, it's not even a monthly solution. But people like people who have friends, who have interests similar to theirs. Some of those people may become interested in you romantically or sexually - or they have friends who do. And you may be wondering why I am basically recommending throwing yourself into the friend zone. Having friends - actual ones, not acquaintances - shows you are a social creature, with good social habits, who treats people well. Having friends shows you are likely to be dateable. Even with the limited time and energy you have, you can decide to cultivate friendships - as an end in themselves, not as means to date. This will improve your life - and long term, make you more eligible as a partner.

Like KC43, I also have similar reactions to men referring to being 'friend zoned'. What that reads to me is that women only have value to you if you want to fuck them. Being friends with a woman you don't want to fuck - or who doesn't want to fuck you - is a complete waste of time. This is a huge red flag to me. Most women can smell this from a long way away - and they will stay away. I realize this is strong wording and perhaps your attitude is more shaded, more subtle. Maybe you do think of women as people and not only humans who I want to fuck. I hope so. Take a good long look at yourself and analyze if you are treating and thinking of women as basically objects and not full fledged actual people. This attitude is ingrained in our culture (I'm assuming you are western), it's taught to everyone. It can be hard to even see, it's so pervasive. But adult women know what it's like not to be treated as less than people. And that will make them stay far away from you.

I'm also curious what you consider old - and which poly mecca you are in -but that's just idle curiosity on my part.

There's really nothing you can do about people who only want to date non-newbies. I suspect this will be less of a barrier if other issues (isolation, possible poor attitude, illness, lack of time and energy) are managed or resolved.

One thought is that you may have better ability to connect if you seek partners among women who are in similar circumstances. Does your conditions have support groups? (No need to answer me - not my business. These are just questions to consider.) Are there online groups or other ways to interact with people in similar situations as your own? Someone dealing with their own limited time and energy is not going to ding you for being in the same boat. (Hopefully, people suck sometimes).

Good luck.
 
I'm a straight CIS man, not yet old.
FYI, it's "cis" - not CIS. I'm cis, too.

"not yet old" probably means something different to each person that says or reads it. I hope you won't give up when you decide you are old.

I've always wanted polyamory, but even before my circumstances got bad, finding just one woman was so infrequent for me that more than one wasn't realistic.

You don't have to find more that one woman to be poly. You can be poly and not dating, poly and dating, poly and committed to one or many, and any combination of these (and probably other things). Are you saying you have always specifically wanted to have long-term relationships going with multiple partners/lovers/women?

What is it you want from polyamory, or from relationships in general? Are you looking for someone to live with (a "nesting partner"), with the option to have multiple loving relationships?

And (I live in a poly mecca) the poly personal ads often say no poly first timers.

If you live in a poly mecca, you can probably meet poly folks lots of places besides the personals ...

Read up on why people are wary of starting relationships with poly newbies. Address those potential pitfalls with yourself now, and wow your new poly contacts with the homework you've done.

But now, bottom line, being someone's poly secondary relationship has become the best (and perhaps still more than) I can hope for.

The circumstances that make this true are unfortunately insoluble.

I think you have convinced yourself of some absolutes that may feel accurate, but cannot logically be so. You can certainly hope for and pursue relationships that can develop into what you're looking for. But you might have to think outside the box you've drawn.

There are plenty of poly people who don't do primary/secondary. Does your preferred polystyle involve "being someone's primary"? Since you seem (above) to say you've wanted to have multiple concurrent relationships, have you imagined being primary to more than one person, or having a primary and a secondary relationship?

One thing many experienced polyamorous people will tell you is that prescribing the only type of poly relationship you really want, then trying to fit people into those roles (or considering all other configurations inferior), is the harder way to go. Letting relationships be what they are, and accepting (or rejecting) the shape they naturally (or at least comfortably) take might be a more realistic approach.

Regardless of what kinds of relationships you see as ideal, or an end goal, every relationship starts with meeting someone, getting to know them, and finding out if you both want to explore the same possibilities.

I acquired a daunting array of serious medical issues and disabilities which severely limit me physically (though not sexually), finanacially, and timewise.

My extremely limited time has put off the few dating prospects I've found...

My circumstances have also isolated me socially.
So, you seek people who can work within your severe physical limitations, your scarce time availability, and your financial constraints. These are huge challenges.

Finding people is about networking - getting "out there" and being social, while doing what you like. Even if this has to be partly or mostly virtual for you, there are plenty of ways to find people who like the same things you do, or like to spend time the way you do. Once you meet people, chemistry and compatibility filter some of them closer, and as you get to know them relationship potential becomes apparent. (also see below, regarding the friend zone)

(of course I dialed down my 'standards' of who I was looking for).
This confuses me. Why would you actively seek people who aren't what you want in a partner? If you think they could still be long-term potential without meeting your initial criteria, then are your initial criteria reasonable?

I'm curious about what these standards might be. If the difference is complementarity (I can't do some things which one person will have to be able to do for us to meet up), I get that. But you used the word "standards," like you have in mind specific minimum levels of desirable qualities. If you projected these standards onto others, would you meet their standards? Are you able to be the person you want to date? If not, what could you do to be that person more, or to give potential partners the chance to prove compatibility regardless of your elements of ideal configuration?

While I wish I could be more than secondary, it sounds a lot better than being 'friend zoned' (which I've experienced more than my share of), or the 'neither' that I have now.
"More than secondary" and "friend zoned" sort of imply that there is a place you should be in someone's life, when they don't also want to offer you that role. Secondary partners and friends don't have to be seen as "less than".

I get that you want(?) to be someone's primary partner. You want that person to be poly (or to accept that you are and plan to be). The only way to find out if you have long-term potential *as a dyad* is to connect and see what you both want to do. This will not always be shacking up forever in primary poly bliss. If you are willing to ever be a secondary (for instance, even after you find a primary partner), then accept the potential for being a secondary with each person you meet. Maybe you find your lifelong secondary partner soulmate before your primary. Is that so bad? Maybe you have some shorter term relationships that aren't any of them long-haul runners. What is lost? You're not old yet!

If you truly don't have time for friends who know they don't want a more intimate relationship with you, I guess you'll have to decide how much you want to invest in getting to know people before you will somehow test their potential. Be honest with yourself and them about what you're looking for, and move on without blame when your goals diverge. The "Friend zone" isn't purgatory that someone else is putting you in. It's in your head, from your expectations. If someone says there is potential, and you don't see the potential developing, it's on you to clarify and cut loose, if that's your game. To be clear, I don't think this is the best way to find love and support in this world, but if it's your way, own it and respect your own boundaries.

I imagine that my motivation might be greeted with disdain, as I have only finally decided to look to polyamory as a 'last resort'. But I truly have always felt it in my heart.
Is your immediate motivation at all important if you're finally being authentic to who you are? Do you see polyamory as "less than" monogamy, as you seem to see "secondary" and "friend" as lower value relationships than "primary"? If you're not embracing polyamory enthusiastically, you probably want to unpack that (or risk being the nightmare poly newbie the personal ads hint at).

Read "More than Two." Explore Relationship Anarchy. Decide if you really feel polyamory in your heart.

Good luck. I think you have some more talking with yourself (or maybe a counselor?) to do, to figure out what you want, and how to approach others with more curiosity and less specific expectations -- a formula that can allow both them and you more agency.
 
I am new to Poly.

Here are some things I have learned:

I haven't been with a lot of women, and certainly was a nerd in school who had trouble dating - I was always the nice guy who ended up in the friend zone while the woman I lusted after went after some guy who didn't treat her well. 30 years later I understand that dynamic and it doesn't bother me (whole other post).

Starting out slow, being that second to the right woman, is probably perfect for you. That means genuinely embracing the philosophy - dealing with your jealousy and insecurity, reading up on the rules and etiquette (More Than Two, this site, etc). That means being authentic - that was hard for me to get, that people who are Poly care most about is honesty and integrity in relationships - be completely honest about who you are and your situation - don't try to hide it. And finally..

Get REALLY active online trying to find someone... I can't tell you the # of hrs I spent when I first dove in trying to figure that out - make it your 2nd job (or 3rd) to work the dating sights and online contacts - the right person will sift through - be prepared for 50 rejections to 1 response. Also, you said you are not old, I don't know what that means, but shooting a little older, people who have some seasoning and know that life isn't perfect, is probably a good thing given your life experience. And you say you are good to go sexually - if you are 35 a partner who is 50 may be really interested in your stamina and drive compared to the people their own age that may have issues.

Good luck.

PS You can PM me and I am happy to discuss more - I have some experience in disability field.
 
Hello neo2,

What about the idea of a secondary relationship that starts out as secondary, but then, over time, evolves into a primary? Is that something that could work for you?

Don't give up hope, there is always a chance of finding the right person for you. I hear you about your circumstances. This will put off some dating prospects, but you can always open yourself to others.

I am assuming that poly is not a "last resort" for you, as much as it is your "last and best hope" and what you were hoping for all along. Your circumstances have made you realize that.

Keep us posted on how things are going for you. Good luck!
Kevin T.
 
First, thanks every one of you for the pricelessly generous replies. I'm sorry I made a number of big mistakes...

@KC43
You're right, I had no good reason to use the phrase "friend zone", sorry, and thank you for calling me on that. (THAT was just something that, long ago, I totally own my 100% responsibility for having bumbled myself into.)

I think I was mixing up that old mistake of mine with my current lack of friends and lovers.

The only point I should have made ended with my disability contributing to both social and romantic isolation. In other words what I should have writtern was just that I also lack friends.

"What exactly are you asking for advice about?"

I guess I was naively hoping there might be some unknown-to-me way to find a poly person with room in their life for someone who has so little to offer they can't reasonably hope to be anyone's "primary". I suppose the answer is to modify my dating profile accordingly.

@opalescent
Yes, I am indeed "not only socially isolated in terms of dating but all around" (including a lack of friends).

Actually, I have valued friendships with women *more* than those with men. It's just that I've blundered into situations where my romantic feelings were unrequited. As I wrote to KD43, I was embarrassingly stupidly mixed up for even using the phrase "friend zone" in my post. (I have bad insomnia, and should have posted when I wasn't so tired, sorry!)

Please forgive me if I'd rather not be more specific about identifying info.

You're probably correct that others with similar limitations would be more receptive...but that's actually not as easy to find as I would have thought.

@SlowPoly
Oops, right, of course "cis" isn't an acronym, my bad.

Yes exactly, I "have always specifically wanted to have long-term relationships going with multiple partners/lovers/women". And I would love "someone to live with (a "nesting partner"), with the option to have multiple loving relationships". Even just saying so made me tear up, since it has been a long time.

I see your point against "prescribing the only type of poly relationship you really want"...but I'm just being realistically resigned not to what I want, but to what I expect I'll need to settle for.

What "standards" have I dialed down with my own acquisition of limitations? Physical attraction, for example.

"Do you see polyamory as "less than" monogamy"? Heck no, the opposite!

Oh, I guess that I have been imagining being "secondary" as being "less than" to someone (than being primary to them)! Whoops, I just flunked my first Poly quiz! I guess all that is "less than", is the amount of time I have for anyone compared to the amount of time I wish I had for everyone. Thank you for that warmly joyous truth.

@kdt26417
Yes, "last and best hope" is more what I meant, not "last resort", because honestly while I've wanted it all along, I'm turning toward it because it appears nothing else will work for me.
 
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"Yes, 'last and best hope' is more what I meant, not 'last resort,' because honestly while I've wanted it all along, I'm turning toward it because it appears nothing else will work for me."

Okay that makes sense.

Note about the word secondary, there's a number of things it can mean. Sometimes it just means that not as much time will be spent with the secondary. Which is what you'd need anyhow; you're limited on time.
 
There is nothing wrong with being disappointed because someone who you are romantically interested in wants to be friends only. Women get friend zoned as well.

You seem a little down on yourself...well, a lot down on yourself. Be prepared for lots of rejection in the online dating scene. Don't take it personally. It can be depressing.

I do get the sense that you are not really poly, but are trying to expand your dating pool. I think that if you find someone who doesn't have a lot of time for you, that might lower your feelings of self worth.

Maybe you should work on yourself a bit before jumping into the dating scene.
 
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Okay that makes sense.

Note about the word secondary, there's a number of things it can mean. Sometimes it just means that not as much time will be spent with the secondary. Which is what you'd need anyhow; you're limited on time.

This! ^^

I think it is important to be mindful of why poly works for YOU — not just why poly opens up doors for you. Being a “secondary” partner to someone whose emotional needs you cannot fully meet because of your time constraints makes perfect sense. It doesn’t mean less love, which is what seems to be worrying for you.

I love my boyfriend a LOT. I don’t get to live with him and I don’t get to spend everyday with him and I haven’t been in a relationship with him for as long, but he brings a lot of value to my life and means every bit as much to me as my husband does.
 
You seem a little down on yourself...well, a lot down on yourself.
Honestly, I'm just being realistic about my prospects...

I do get the sense that you are not really poly, but are trying to expand your dating pool.
...and thus looking to expand my dating pool. For a long time I've only resisted listing myself as poly because that would remove from my dating pool women only seeking monogamy*. I'm only now realizing that those women would want more than I have to give anyway.

*I don't see that that implies any practical problems in my case, since given that I've been so long unable to find even one partner means that if I were to find and become monogamous with one, the others that I'd be refraining from would lets face it be almost certainly purely hypothetical.

Nonetheless, I'm feeling reluctant to change my dating profile to "poly" simply based upon the huge contraction of my dating pool that would cause.

This will take time and precious energy.
I'm sorry I needed you to tell me this. The rub is that lack of those is precisely what got me into this mess.

I love my boyfriend a LOT. I don’t get to live with him and I don’t get to spend everyday with him and I haven’t been in a relationship with him for as long, but he brings a lot of value to my life and means every bit as much to me as my husband does.
Thank you, that is truly wonderfully touching.
 
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