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  #11  
Old 12-02-2018, 12:06 PM
TurtleBug TurtleBug is offline
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Galagirl, you always have the best responses and you're always so helpful. Thank you.

I'm sorry I'm not giving much insight to my situation. I'm trying to figure out how to phrase these things without giving out too much personal information.

Point blank, I do not like his partner. I want nothing to do with them. I tried in the beginning of their relationship but they were new to this kind of lifestyle and shied away from the family aspects we want in our poly relationships. And even after discussing this with my husband things did not change. Now that they have seen other poly families they suddenly understand what it's about and how it works and I feel like a guinea pig. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad his other partner has finally seen how well this can work out but the damage is done on my end. I'm stressed out with several other life changes, I'm still battling PPD, and I know that I do not have the strength to deal with repairing their screw up in our polycule.

I have been asking for a long time for his time and attention. He refuses to give that to me. For fear of hurting the other partners feelings. He got confirmation that their feelings would not be hurt yet he still can not, for some reason, give me the attention and personal time I need. Yet the other partner gets it from him. I feel like second best. Like our marriage doesn't count. Like my feelings don't matter. So having to sit there and see the affection being given to someone else really hurts.

I've asked for no sex in our bed, he can't comply with that. I've asked for sheets to be washed, it only last for a short time and honestly didn't help me much but a little is better than nothing.
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2018, 02:23 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Post partum depression is hard. I'm sorry you struggle with PPD.

Sounds like the new partner is/was on a learning curve. That happens and perhaps over time that could work out better between you and her if spouse could get it together.

But the bottom line still sounds like your husband doesn't do his fair share. Stuff between you and him is still no good.

Quote:
I have been asking for a long time for his time and attention. He refuses to give that to me. For fear of hurting the other partners feelings.
How would it hurt his other partner's feelings? Everyone in the network knows he's a hinge with 2 partners. It stands to reason that there would be time spent with each.

Is he using the other partner as excuse? Like saying "it would hurt their feelings" when really he means "I don't want to" instead?

Quote:
He got confirmation that their feelings would not be hurt yet he still can not, for some reason, give me the attention and personal time I need.
Well... maybe time for honest conversation.
  • Is he still into you? Or is that fading?
  • Is he having a hard time with the PPD and drained by it?
  • What about childcare? Is that a mood killer for either/both of you?
  • Is he more into the "new shiny" relationship with less responsibilities than the husband/father one at home?
  • How does he see the (you+ him) relationship in a year, 5 years? What behaviors is he doing/not doing to help get it there?

Quote:
I've asked for no sex in our bed, he can't comply with that. I've asked for sheets to be washed, it only last for a short time and honestly didn't help me much but a little is better than nothing.
If a little is better than nothing? YOU could get a set of bedding YOU maintain. And change the sheets when YOU need them to be clean. Stop asking him things like washing/changing bedding if it only last a short time. I can see where it would be frustrating -- that he cannot be bothered to even do that minimal effort of good manners.

But rather than waste your breath on that right now? YOU change the bedding so you don't have to sleep in other people sex funk.

Quote:
Yet the other partner gets it from him. I feel like second best. Like our marriage doesn't count. Like my feelings don't matter. So having to sit there and see the affection being given to someone else really hurts.
So... envy. They get attention and care you no longer get. You wish you had that for yourself.

And maybe angry -- that this is so unbalanced and he's not LISTENING. Like... "How loud do I have to SHOUT before it goes in?!"

Poly hell stuff -- could reading that article together help him open his eyes?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-02-2018 at 02:47 PM.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2018, 09:51 PM
TurtleBug TurtleBug is offline
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I read the poly hell article and it really hit the nail on the head. I sent a link to my husband and asked him to look into it and possibly even get his other partner to read it also.

It is a very mixed combination of jealousy, envy and anger. And I know that I shouldn't be directing my anger towards the other person. This is his screw up. I just can't get rid of the disturbing thoughts and getting really angry at seeing them together. My anxiety kicks in high gear just from the fact that I know they will be coming to my home until the day after they have left. And as I've said, he has done better in some aspects. And I do appreciate him trying harder. But the main things I need he just can't do. So that and the fact that I feel like I
A. Shouldn't have had to go through this again because of how it affected us last time, (learn from past mistakes) and
B. It took multiple talks and over a year to finally start to even attempt to repair this
Makes the bitterness of this leave a nasty poly taste in my mouth and I just want no part of it anymore. I'm tired of sharing and getting put in second place while I put him on a pedestal.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:29 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi TurtleBug,

It sounds like you are torn, like part of you wants to be okay with things, but the other part is not okay. It sounds like your husband
  • went without protection,
  • disregarded your feelings,
  • stopped communicating,
  • put her before your marriage,
  • puts you in second place,
  • has done this before,
  • takes her to your house,
  • has sex with her in your bed,
  • can't do the main things you need,
  • refuses to give you his time and attention,
  • gives her his time and attention,
  • gives affection to her in front of you,
  • wants you to associate with her,
  • claims he's trying to make it right,
  • just wants you to get over it.
His partner has spurned you in the past, and now you are dealing with PPD. When we put it all in one place like that, it's no wonder you're feeling angry, jealous, and envious! Can I ask, can you tell me some of the things he's done to make it right? Maybe I'm seeing too much of the negative and not enough of the positive. What do you love about him?

I'm sorry he has been acting so poorly. I hope he improves, and takes steps to restore your trust.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:31 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
My anxiety kicks in high gear just from the fact that I know they will be coming to my home until the day after they have left.
Is this a visit thing? Like the other partner is LDR? If so... what stops them from using a hotel? Why's it got to be in your shared home? And did anyone ask you if you consent to this trip arrangement or was it just foisted on you?

Quote:
But the main things I need he just can't do.
What is the main thing you need? Is is a deal beaker for you?

Quote:
I feel like I
A. Shouldn't have had to go through this again because of how it affected us last time, (learn from past mistakes) and
B. It took multiple talks and over a year to finally start to even attempt to repair this

Makes the bitterness of this leave a nasty poly taste in my mouth and I just want no part of it anymore. I'm tired of sharing and getting put in second place while I put him on a pedestal.
Could STOP. Not participate any more. Withdraw your consent to do poly with him. That may also means breaking up the marriage if he doesn't want to stop doing poly and you do. (Or maybe you find you want to keep doing poly later... just not with HIM because he's turned out to be a poor poly partner.)

I think you guys really need to talk.

If he is NOT hearing you even after you ask him to read poly hell? You may have to come to terms on your own that his behaviors here will NOT change. Then do what is best for just YOU based on that information. If being in this causes you this much pain/upset and it isn't gonna change? You might need to get out of the lien of fire so your own health can improve.

Sometimes a marriage can repair and recover from trust betrayals. Sometimes they cannot because there's been too many of them.

This may have been too many trust betrayals to come back from. Is it? Only you can answer that. Maybe you are just done? Not a fun thing to think about. You have my sympathies.

But it sounds like you need to do some soul searching and make some decisions about what you will and will not put up with and what you are and are not up for at this point in time. Then have a serious talk with husband.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-03-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2018, 09:31 PM
TurtleBug TurtleBug is offline
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I do love him, very much. If I didn't I would not be trying so hard to keep working on these issues. He really is a good person, we have fun together, he gets me (to an extent). We have known each other all our lives and been a couple since 2004. Married 2006. We didn't open our marriage until 2013 so we were not new to each other when we started this. We were comfortable in our marriage. So his first go with NRE really took a toll on us and our marriage. We overcame it, got stronger in our communication, and thought we had learned how to better handle things. He just seems to have a hard time with slipping up and I get the hurt feelings from it.

He has done better by showing slightly more attention towards me. Not near what I would like but it's a start. But it seems to lessen when the other partner is NOT around. It's like he seems to only feel the urge to do it in their presence to try and prove that he's working on it. Which wouldn't be a bad thing except he waits until they are out of sight, like he's worried about them seeing him give his wife attention. He claims he's slacked on constant communication with them throughout the day but I have not seen much of a change. And I have been asking for over a year for him to give us a day together, no other partners involved on my nor his end. He can't do it. We even discussed it with all three of us just a few weeks ago. His partner said they didn't see why he would think that they would have a problem with it. So he basically got the confirmation he needed for his other partner that they would not be upset for him to spend time with me for a day with just us two. My birthday was last week and I got my hopes up that it would happen because all of the talks and the fact that it's supposed to be my special day. It didn't happen. And he can't give me a reason why. Why is it so hard to tell someone that you need personal time with a spouse to reconnect and enjoy each other's company for a day????? It baffles me. I give him alone time with them. I back off on texting to be good morning /good night so they can have individual time. That's all I ask for in return. And I figure that some of the anger I have towards his other partner is bc they know I need this from him but they don't acknowledge it either. Even though I know it's not on their head to control what goes on in my marriage.

I want to stop, I want to go back to being monogamous. I'm tired of bouncing between two people myself. But I can't. I can't get divorced (for reasons I'd rather not discuss), I can't drop my secondary. And I would never ask nor tell my husband to drop his. This is a relationship issue between he and I. I don't see where our other relationships have to suffer if it's his and my issues to work out.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2018, 10:07 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I mean all this kindly, ok?

I don't know what else to add. You and husband have to talk. List the actions that will be done. And if not done? List the consequences YOU can do. Because never ending downward spiral sounding stuff? That is not good for your mental health.

It's right there in poly hell.

Quote:
"They rationalize that they must focus on the new partner to solidify that relationship or it may not survive. At the same time, they see the primary relationship as stable and secure. As a result, they take their relationship for granted and fail to grasp that it needs maintenance and sustenance in order to thrive. The damage done by neglect during this phase can often be fatal to the primary relationship.
and

Quote:
Unfortunately, it is only at the point that the primary partner decides to end the relationship that the partner usually takes their demands seriously, because they have been oblivious and naively believed that the relationship was secure. And by then it is usually too late to repair the damage, as their partner is already on their way out the door, and feels so mistreated and distrustful they are unlikely to be deterred."
How close are you to that point?

I see that you don't want things to end. But I also see he's basically phoning it in or just outright neglecting you. I do not see how this is awesome to continue.

On the one hand... you care about him:

Quote:
I do love him, very much. If I didn't I would not be trying so hard to keep working on these issues. He really is a good person, we have fun together, he gets me (to an extent). We have known each other all our lives and been a couple since 2004. Married 2006.
I get that. None of that has to stop if you end the marriage and stop doing Poly with each other. You can still love him. Can still have fun together as friends.

Just no more romantic or marriage expectations. He can keep seeing his other partner and you keep seeing yours.

So your upset that (your spouse/romantic partner no longer does those spouse/romantic partner things) can end because (he is no longer that spouse person.)

On the other hand, you seem really fed up with the poor behavior:

Quote:
It's like he seems to only feel the urge to do it in their presence to try and prove that he's working on it. Which wouldn't be a bad thing except he waits until they are out of sight, like he's worried about them seeing him give his wife attention. He claims he's slacked on constant communication with them throughout the day but I have not seen much of a change. And I have been asking for over a year for him to give us a day together, no other partners involved on my nor his end. He can't do it.

We even discussed it with all three of us just a few weeks ago. His partner said they didn't see why he would think that they would have a problem with it. So he basically got the confirmation he needed for his other partner that they would not be upset for him to spend time with me for a day with just us two.

My birthday was last week and I got my hopes up that it would happen because all of the talks and the fact that it's supposed to be my special day. It didn't happen. And he can't give me a reason why.
To me? That is phoning it in/neglect. Rather than make yourself crazy wondering WHY he cannot do it? Could accept he just doesn't. After over a year of asking him to? Accept the answer is "No. Not gonna."

Then you can plan from there rather than beating head against wall.

So if you are married to a person who doesn't give affection and won't make 1:1 time with you? Is that your idea of the marriage you want to participate in?

If yes, continue how it is.

If not? Become more willing to let the marriage part that no longer works go. Because the solution is not you doing 100% of the work and burning out.
Could seek counseling for just you and/or the couple. Maybe it pans out. Maybe you become more ok letting that part end, and then focus more on the friendship/coparenting/whatever other parts that DO still work.

Quote:
Why is it so hard to tell someone that you need personal time with a spouse to reconnect and enjoy each other's company for a day?????
If he wants to spend time alone with you? It's not a big deal or hardship to tell his other partner "No, thanks. I'm busy that day with my spouse." If he doesn't want to spend time with you? He can hem and haw and make excuses... but in the end he's just not gonna make the time on his calendar.

HE is in charge of his time and calendar. Nobody else.

Quote:
It baffles me. I give him alone time with them. I back off on texting to be good morning /good night so they can have individual time. That's all I ask for in return.
Ask in return from WHO?

Is your meta not doing this? Backing off when it is (you + husband time?)

Does husband not do this when it is (you + your other partner) time?

Or is it that husband doesn't spend any individual time with you, and your main role in his life is no longer romantic partner/spouse. But...what? Childcare? Homecare? Something else?

Quote:
And I figure that some of the anger I have towards his other partner is bc they know I need this from him but they don't acknowledge it either. Even though I know it's not on their head to control what goes on in my marriage.
Meta cannot control what your spouse's behavior choices are any more than you can control his behavior choices. Perhaps it is easier to aim some of the anger at them though. Because it is hard to digest.

That you love husband and try to treat him in loving ways, but he doesn't treat you in loving ways back lately.

Quote:
I want to stop, I want to go back to being monogamous. I'm tired of bouncing between two people myself. But I can't.
If this is what you want? To return to practicing monogamy? ASK.

If neither of your present partners wants to do this with you? Then you have to end it with them, heal, and maybe move on to dating to seek someone who DOES want to share this.

Or at least drop one of them so even if you cannot solve all of the "sads" you can reduce the load. If you end it with secondary, then you don't have to be bouncing back and forth.

You could align your behaviors more toward what you want. Rather than doing stuff you don't want.

Quote:
I can't get divorced (for reasons I'd rather not discuss.)
Fair enough. You don't have to say why here.

I will point out that even if divorce is difficult? It can be planned/saved up/worked for. A trial separation might be considered too. I mean... SOMETHING has to change here for new feelings to ensue. Otherwise you can expect more of same feelings because all the behaviors are unchanged.

Quote:
I can't drop my secondary. And I would never ask nor tell my husband to drop his. This is a relationship issue between he and I. I don't see where our other relationships have to suffer if it's his and my issues to work out.
Are you saying that you prefer YOU to remain suffering?

Because if husband doesn't change behavior and you are unwilling to leave this situation or make any changes on your end? All I can see is more of same. And you don't sound happy.

I also do not see it as a (you + husband issue.)

It is a (you) issue.

You have to decide what you are and are not willing to put up with and for how long. It's already been 5 trust betrayals and at least a year on these issues. The poly hell article suggests 3 chances. This is in overtime according to that suggestion.

If no discernible progress is being made... how much more time do you want to give it before pulling the plug? You don't have to end it right now. That's not what I'm saying. Maybe you guys decide the new thing to try is marriage counseling with a poly friendly person. And maybe that pans out.

What I'm saying is... something has to change. Like try cosuneling. AND you could also put a time limit on "working on it" in counseling. Because that is an expense. And because one way to finish working on it is to just end it. Stop trying to fly the kite that won't fly.

If you clock another X betrayals? Or another 1-2 years like this? What's the deal breaker point to YOU? When does the clock say to you "Well, I have to end to end it then. With regrets, but end it all the same."

Because you aren't gonna spend 20, 30, 50 years like this, right? Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

So... talk to him. Make a request for counseling perhaps. But have the time limit firmly in mind.

Then you do your fair share and just watch the clock. He either steps it up or not on doing his fair share.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-03-2018 at 10:23 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2018, 08:42 AM
SEASONEDpolyAgain SEASONEDpolyAgain is online now
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If you really want to continue this relationship with something resembling health, you might have to accept that a relationship with limitations doesn't work for him. So instead of insisting he wears condoms with other people, compromise on a testing regime or wear barriers with each other. It sounds like he wants relationships with no restrictions or hierarchy too, maybe you'll have to settle for that if you want to be with him and have some sense of consistency or stability. At least you'll know things will always be that way.

This is your husband... this is how he does his relationships... instead of trying to make him different, decide whether you are compatible with who he is, not with who you'd prefer him to be.
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2018, 09:57 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi TurtleBug,

It sounds like you do not want to leave your husband, you just wish he would make some time for you, such as setting aside a special day for just you and him. Unfortunately, it's obvious that he's not willing to do that. You've been asking him for over a year and yet he doesn't do it. His partner stated in no uncertain terms that they'd have no problem with it, and yet he doesn't do it. Your birthday comes and goes and yet he doesn't do it. These are strong bits of evidence that he's not going to do it. He's not going to set aside a special day for just you and him, and he won't even tell you any reason why. Apparently he just doesn't want to.

I see that he has many good traits, he is a good person, you have fun together, he gets you, you have been with him a long time, you love him, you shouldn't have to break up with him. I think that you're going to have to resign yourself to never getting that special day, and never knowing the reason why. Focus on his good points and do not get so bogged down by his bad points. So he slips up now and then, and I don't blame you for feeling hurt when he does. But you know that no one is perfect, right? You can't expect him to do it right every time. And the thing with the special day is just something he slips up on. Make peace with this if you can.

It is a difficult situation that you are stuck in. I hope it gets better.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2018, 08:38 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Excuse me, but it shouldn't be hard for your husband to date you regularly, just like he dates his OSO.

If he loved you and enjoyed your company, he'd want to date you. Especially if you need extra pampering after giving birth to his child.... You might feel unattractive and depressed and rejected if absolutely ALL his romantic attentions go to his current NRE object. And PPD can go psychotic if not treated. His neglect can't be helping! This is serious!

I am appalled a year went by, and your birthday went by, and you can't get one day with him all to yourself. You say he "can't" find it in him to give you one freeking day. Can't? Then maybe he's a love or sex addict. If he's so addicted to his NRE hits that he "can't" give his wife a date for over a year, he's not a good husband. Period.

He's being a cad. Maybe he's a charming cad. You can love a cad. But why keep begging? That's not respecting yourself.

He can't or won't give you one day in a year. I'm poly and I date my nesting partner a couple times a month at least, like go out to dinner. And we don't have kids in the home... so we spend 4 nights a week together actively communicating, cuddling, having sex, doing projects, cooking and eating together. Watching shows or movies, and talking about them. We also take a couple week long vacations together each year.

My partner has a bf of 5 years. She sees him 2 or 3 nights a week, at his house. I see whoever I am dating when they are free, either here or at their place (amount of time varies according to who is in my life, and their schedules). My gf gives us space when I have a date over.

It's pretty balanced. Balance is important.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
BigGuy (poly, M, married, 43, dating me since late summer 2018)
Ravi (poly, M, married, 37, dating me since late summer 2018)

Last edited by Magdlyn; 12-05-2018 at 08:41 PM.
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