sifting through the ashes

There was something else K said that has been niggling away at me - and I would like to ask for opinions or thoughts on how to view this...

Basically he said that my continuing to push at getting a response that will satisfy me would be, in his opinion, me pushing for the relationship... that he sees it as me fighting for the relationship with T more than I would for my relationship with him...

I see it this way... In my opening up and talking through everything with him, by letting myself be vulnerable and be in this much pain I AM fighting right now for my relationship with him... I sometimes feel it is unfair of me to subject him to the pain I am going through, that it would be better off all around if I lock it all away inside me and walk away from both him and T...

The comparison he sees, to me, is flawed - he doesn't see the dedication to him I am showing every single day, he sees me hurting over the loss of T...

I am not wallowing in my grief, I am still being loving, and considerate, when inside my heart is screaming its head off - at the same time as it is feeling loving towards him... I AM bloody fighting for what we have... any outward movement I make towards T is to alleviate the worst of my pain, not to fight for the relationship, although in effect it does do that as well.

I am just not sure how to move forward right now, and think it unfair that I should have all the answers immediately...
 
Hey Kat, I just read through all this... So sorry to hear that things have spiraled into such an unfortunate situation.

I think sometimes men cannot help but compare, it's sortof in our nature. This can especially be the case with very very good friends who are similar in many ways. Competition can be intrinsic. Perhaps from K's perspective, he's wondering what your reaction would have been had things gone the opposite way. If he had left you, and you were still with T. Maybe he can't help but wonder.

Also, surely he's going though some shit too, having lost one of his best friends of many years. Maybe discussing it is painful for him, for this, or maybe even both reasons. Perhaps he thinks you haven't noticed that this is hard for him too.

You may want to give it time and just see what happens, as tough as that may be to do. If T experiences a change of heart, maybe he'll reach out to you and K. If not, then time heals all wounds - don't let losing one lover cost you the other.

Good luck.
 
Thanks SS

That is very much likely what K is feeling/thinking. we have discussed it to a certain extent - and I know he can't feel what i feel and so can't have the same 'knowing' that I do of how I would respond... but to me I know he trusts me - but at the same time - he doesn't.

The other part of what bothers me in myself about all of this is the 'ownership' aspect of this... I don't have a better word to describe it so excuse me if I offend anyone with it...

I don't ask either of them to share themselves with anyone else (though they would of course be free to) - I ask that I be able to share myself as I see fit, as I am happy with...

Surely that should be my choice? I don't understand how it diminishes what I give? I think my biggest problem is I simply do not understand their point of view - I have never been in this position, so have never confronted this issue before...
 
Hi Kat,

Just finished reading ... Here's my crack at advice. It seems like you could be in danger of losing your K because you can't stop worrying about T. T has made it abudantly clear that he needs space, quite possibly forever.

So, when you push at the wall he has erected, you are damaging yourself and in doing so, are less useful in your discussions with K. This statement of yours spoke to me ...

I ask that I be able to share myself as I see fit, as I am happy with...

I used to subscribe to this belief, and in a perfect world, I think it would be a glorious things. Your interactions with others would only enrich you, which would then enrich the lives of others you spend your time with.

However, we are far from a perfect world. The one-sided interactions you have with T are affecting K. You are emotionally drained and who has to deal with that? K. Not T, but K.

I feel for you, as I am someone with the potential to worry over an issue constantly until I've driven others mad, or contented myself with a resolution. It's not pretty. So I recommend (and it will be hard) deleting T from MSN and removing your access to his FB page. Block him if you need to. Because trust me, trying to interpret the meaning (if there is one) behind his picture/status updates is only going to cause you harm. And if it harms you, it harms K.
 
Hey TP - Thanks.

I hear you loud and clear, I don't know if I have the strength to do that... I will certainly be thinking long and hard about it.

T has removed his Facebook and MSN Pictures again anyway. I was clear in the letter they were having an effect on me...

I have a lot of thinking to do and my world is about to get mondo busy again :p

Wishing for a fairy godmother to make it all work right somehow :D
 
I should also say that that particular issue is a huge one for me personally...

In my previous marriage... my ex wanted me to be the perfect everything - kinda like a trophy wife type thing. If I failed... I would be punished... and I always failed at something... I was always pushed 'back into my box'... forced to be his idea of wife (whatever that happened to be at the time - it would change regularly)....

To say I am struggling with my identity would be putting it mildly... all of this, has actually helped me to shape what Mono termed 'footings'... my personal wording for this post would be the bones in my spine - everytime I learn something new about myself my back gets a little stronger... my body a little more defined from the amorphous blob it currently is (pleasant image huh :p)

A lot is going on for me... but it is simply my life, resolution may never come - but there is something here I need to learn - otherwise it wouldn't be happening... now... to figure out the right question so I can see the answer :p
 
Hmm, so feeling confused all over again...

T sent me a very short and perfunctory safe travels and merry xmas email... after his very to the point email about not being friends...

I responded to it with a thanks for the thought, merry xmas etc...a shorter than normal, to the point response...

Have spoken with K about it, and have come to an understanding on certain things, the most important of which is that we will stop talking about it for a time (not decided how long yet - but a couple of months or thereabouts) as he feels sick to his tummy whenever the subject is raised. However, he still wants me to tell him if T emails again and discuss it before I respond.

Now we had a huge long conversation because of that very short email... hours long... which is good, but if he is not comfortable with me raising the subject by telling him about an email, how can i tell him about an email if we are going to end up having long discussions which would break the agreement?

And what does it mean that T contacted me? I sure as hell wasn't expecting it and it has thrown me for a loop as I was struggling hard with setting all this aside for a bit...
 
... but if he is not comfortable with me raising the subject by telling him about an email, how can i tell him about an email if we are going to end up having long discussions which would break the agreement?

Have you said just this to him? If not, do so. :)
 
yes I did - just not as bluntly...

he said that what triggered the long discussion was when I had said to him that the only thing stopping him from writing T for new years (in response to a 'maybe I would like to respond too' when we were discussing our different views on why or why not either of us should discuss our response with each other first before sending) was himself.

And yet, at the same time, he is stating he doesn't want to talk about or think about it for a couple of months... so obviously not going to respond.... or initiate contact...

and the conversation wouldnt have been had if I didnt have to tell him about the email and my response...

I know he is confused, and hurting, and angry and feeling threatened, but he is also being unclear. I need to sort this out very soon, and set a time limit, and just be clear, because this confusion is making me batty, and straining us...

The best thing about the conversation was I was able to say something that made K feel better (at least for now), and I was able to get across the fact of how I feel that this is making us stronger, that because we know each other so much deeper and honestly, our love is that much deeper and stronger too...

Just really not sure how to proceed ( lol as usual )

Edit: by straining I mean; making us awkward and uncomfortable... not the actual depth of our relationship, we are stronger than ever, just maybe treating each other with kid gloves... hard to explain
 
Last edited:
So K has a nasty habit of starting a D&M just before he has to head off for work.

Today he brought up the subject of T again. He came up with various theories about how it was his fault that T took off. I can't believe he is trying to lay the blame for T leaving at his own feet. And even with that idea - he still doesn't want to contact him and attempt to straighten it all out.

He seems to be coming to the conclusion that T had deep, deep feelings for me, and that T thought that wasn't cool as K was having problems with it. So K is now extremely angry that (in this current scenario) T decided on his own to sacrifice their friendship to save our (mine and K's) relationship.

I hurt so much for all of this... K had a thing when I met him, that he had the opposite of a Midas touch (daft bugger sometimes) ... I definitely surpass him in that field at the moment.

It's going to be a sleepless night for me (it's the middle of the night for me here). Utterly miserable right now.
 
So K read my thread last night... we had a long and very deep conversation. Things are still pretty confused and we are reaching new levels of understanding.

He has signed up to the forum. Not sure if he will settle in here or continue to feel uncomfortable.

I would love to introduce you all to him... however I will let him do that as he feels comfortable.
 
So K read my thread last night... we had a long and very deep conversation. Things are still pretty confused and we are reaching new levels of understanding.

He has signed up to the forum. Not sure if he will settle in here or continue to feel uncomfortable.

I would love to introduce you all to him... however I will let him do that as he feels comfortable.

K, be welcomed!
 
My turn again....

So this last week, along with all the other drama, T popped his head up on MSN said one word (my name) and disappeared again...

This ripped the scabs from my barely starting to heal heart and left me raw and bleeding again (in my already stressed situation - I am not quite as thick-skinned as normal and this is so close to my heart).

Today I got an email from him - telling me I am missed deeply, that he is searching for excuses to talk to me and apologising for the contact, saying it was unfair.

The response I want to send runs like this:

T,

You are missed deeply, by both of us. Knowing that you are hurting weighs on my mind a great deal.

You need no excuse to speak with me, I am here, I miss you and I want you back in our lives. As far as I am concerned, all you need to do is add me back everywhere you removed me from and we can take it step by step from there. There is no need for apology for wanting to speak with me. It costs me a great deal to respect your wish for no communication.

There is nothing unfair about talking to me. What is unfair is the choice you made to unilaterally cut us both out of your life. What is unfair is continuing to make that choice every single day. I do not understand what it is you think you do by making that choice.

Surely it would be fairer to allow both (WaterWolf) and myself to have a voice in whether or not you are a part of our life? Surely it would be fairer to do us the courtesy, and show us the respect, of having open, and honest, communication. Hard work, discomfort and awkwardness do not deter me from working towards something beautiful, whether it be nothing more than friendship or something deeper.

(FlameKat).

..............

WaterWolf, quite understandably holds a great deal of anger and resentment, both about the way T has hurt me in this situation, abandoned their friendship and run like a coward from his feelings (general gist of a very long tirade) and intends to respond to his email quite bluntly about the above issues, including a statement to the effect that if T wants back in he (WaterWolf) expects to see the same effort deployed towards their friendship... (I have no problem with this... I do feel the need to send my own response though (after all the email WAS to me, and I have a relationship with T as well)

Should I just let WaterWolf send his response only? Should I send my response separately to WaterWolf's or together? This is really bugging me a lot...
Communication is a key issue for me... I feel I need to send my response separately and let the boys work on their stuff separately - but then I don't want to be out of the loop either...and WaterWolf isn't ready to have T back in his life yet, or at least that is what he is saying... but I am sitting here hurting from his absence.
I want to find a middle ground where I can talk with T, just talk and maybe game, and WaterWolf be okay with that... and they work things out as they are ready.

(Quick reminder: both these relationships are for me, LDR's - WaterWolf and T live in the same city)

WaterWolf is also dealing with the death of a friend (funeral tomorrow).

What is fair here? Am I wanting too much from WaterWolf at this point (in general - obviously not pushing the issue while he is dealing with the funeral etc), or am I right to expect a little movement?
 
I think the response you wrote is beautiful.

I also think that, for now, since the email was sent to YOU, that only you respond first. However, you could add to what you've already written something about WaterWolf also wishing to communicate to him. Maybe mention that WaterWolf is dealing with a lot right now but also feels the need to express something to T. -- and possibly even ask for permission for WW to do so??? I don't know if permission is needed, only you two know that - but at least if you mention it to T. that WW wants communication, he will be prepared to hear from him as well.

In dealing with WW, you can tell him to just deal with his grief and sadness right now, but that you are paving the way for him to communicate with T.
 
Hey nycindie

It's not that WW wants communication - it's the opposite. WW is not ready to have T back yet. I am.

WW wants to speak his mind and get the anger out (that he didn't get out 3-4 months ago when all this blew up)... I do fear that T would react by leaving for good. Hpwever - it also may be the catalyst they need to really start talking again. I don't know. and, having made the mistake of sticking my nose in before am not going to get involved - I have great concerns on how it is going to affect my relationship with T though.

I know I will resent WW for pushing T away when he reached out (if that is what happens), but I also would resent not being able to speak my mind in the same situation, so am not going to interfere with that at all. WW needs to say what he needs to say and that is what will happen.

I guess I am just looking for advice on how to handle my side of things and what I can rightfully ask for in sending my own response... and what expectations I should have about being able to maintain a friendship with T if T and WW do not repair their friendship...

Am I asking WW to deal with too much if I remain friends with his oldest friend, when they are (possibly - depending on what happens) no longer friends??
 
Back
Top