How does marriage differ from a long term committed relationship. Opinions wanted.

Andy4700

New member
Hey everyone. I am seeking some input this morning.

For those of you that don't know me, I am 26, married and seeking a woman for a V type situation. Its been hard as heck even meeting anyone.

I have had a couple slight possibilities derailed when the nature of my relationship with my wife has come up.

I've "advertised" as simply being in a happy, committed relationship, but since poly is built on honesty, I have always been truthful when asked more about my situation.

This at least twice has collapsed everything. :/ Its got me kinda bummed today as I was chatting with someone yesterday and we were seeming like we had great potential, until she found out I wasn't just "in love and living with another woman", but were married. She said shes not sure if she'd be okay with that.

Have some of you other married poly people had this happen? How do you handle it? Its hurting my wife because she feels like she is the one wrecking everything, when she's been incredibly supportive and would like to see something progress. She suggested we just hide the fact that we are married, but I just don't like to lie. But honestly, why is it such a big issue?

One thing to note here is that in both cases where I am sure its the reason nothing more happened, the girls were my age and never married. I get the impression maybe to them marriage is something different then it actually turns out to be. Like after you walk down the aisle, life becomes like a fairytale.

I have a feeling a woman in an open marriage would be more understanding, but I haven't met any yet.

If anyone has any input, i'd love to hear it.

-Andy
 
i think that most women are in the "monogamous" or "primary" mindset and THEY want to be the wife. A lot women of that age are starting to think about finding someone to marry and buy a house and have kids with, so of course getting involved with a married man who has no intention of leaving his wife would be a big turn-off, I would have to imagine. You have to accept that your dating pool is going to be DRASTICALLY diminished than if you were single looking for a monogamous relationship with the possibility of marriage.
 
These women are out there, and DO exist. HOWEVER...They are rare as hen's teeth. And never seem to develop into more than just sex partners. :( I would say that you keep telling women that you are married. This shows honest, and that you are proud and not afraid to show off your women or woman. Stand proud, and stand tall. If you form a relationship on a lie...Then it will always be just that....a lie. And she will wonder what else you are hiding from her.
 
ok..........now

i think that most women are in the "monogamous" or "primary" mindset and THEY want to be the wife. A lot women of that age are starting to think about finding someone to marry and buy a house and have kids with, so of course getting involved with a married man who has no intention of leaving his wife would be a big turn-off, I would have to imagine. You have to accept that your dating pool is going to be DRASTICALLY diminished than if you were single looking for a monogamous relationship with the possibility of marriage.

Thanks Neon for your honesty & openness.
If I had said exactly the same thing I would have been flailed until dead :)

So the question becomes - how do you ladies that see the other viable options get the word out ?
Maybe by having some conversations with trusted GFs, by forwarding some of the informative media stuff thats appearing more & more ?

It may well be impossible to overcome society's stereotypes and mis-information campaign but unless someone with credibility to the target population at least TRIES, you can be sure it will remain the same.

Thanks again,

GS
 
Thanks Neon for your honesty & openness.
If I had said exactly the same thing I would have been flailed until dead :)

So the question becomes - how do you ladies that see the other viable options get the word out ?
Maybe by having some conversations with trusted GFs, by forwarding some of the informative media stuff thats appearing more & more ?

It may well be impossible to overcome society's stereotypes and mis-information campaign but unless someone with credibility to the target population at least TRIES, you can be sure it will remain the same.

Thanks again,

GS

GS, you tend to "get flailed until dead" not because of what you say, but because of the way you say things.

For example, expressions such as "you ladies" come across as uncouth and divisive. It's much less unflattering to say "the ladies in our midst" or "ladies of a like mindset" for what you are trying to communicate.

Of course, by now, most of us are used to you and have come to expect this sort of phrasing in your posts.

You're welcome,

NK
 
I agree with Neon.

I failed to note that the woman yesterday has a BF she says she loves and doesn't want anything more then a casual secondary. Same thing I want.

I would probably avoid a single, never married woman my age unless she really seemed like she could enjoy my companionship and still keep an eye peeled for Mr. Right, and if he came along drop things to a platonic friendship with me. This seems appealing to me, to have someone that loves you to fall back on, yet have the freedom to look for someone that can offer everything. Sadly, I don't think most people can function like that. :/

I don't agree with Olderwoman, except maybe in the case of a triad. I am just looking for something fun and with new energy and dynamics. I don't intend to try and be someones everything, so i don't really want a marriage of three, so to speak. My wife is the one I have chosen to to spend my life with, build a home with, and have children with if we decide to have them at some point. To me thats much different then adding someone to my life simply because I enjoy their company and just want to live in the moment a bit and let things sort of run thier course without a bunch of rules and stigma.

I know everyones idea of poly is different, but I think maybe some here can see where I am coming from.. I hope...?

-Andy
 
Andy, I pretty much feel the same as you do, with a few minor differences. I have to step out right now but maybe I'll say more when I return.
 
I'm not sure how we get the word out, so to speak. I know that Wolf had one prospect last summer who wasn't bi and I was completely okay with that. I encouraged their friendship and assured her that it would be fine with me if something sexual developed between them (even if all she wanted was FWB) but two things happened 1) she couldn't get past the married thing 2) Wendigo's wife was hurt that Wolf had not talked to her about this first.... like I've said before, she's said before that she's incapable of loving anyone but Wendigo, but we have a sort of FWB relationship with her.... she was upset that between the 3 of us we weren't enough for Wolf. So Wolf decided to stop pursuing his prospect.

I think that some people have a hard time wrapping their mind around the concept that there doesn't have to be just one person to be "enough" for them, whether that's sexually, emotionally, or what not. We're conditioned to believe that you get married when you meet "the one" so why if you already have your "one" should another woman believe that she'll matter that significantly to you? Just my thoughts as I'm struggling with this myself. Wendigo and I see the inequalities in our quad, but feel powerless to do anything about it. We can't create more time or fix the complications that keep his wife from spending time with Wolf, we can't make her poly, but maybe in time she'll come to accept that Wolf needs some things that neither of us can provide for him. We're all committed to making this work, so one of the boundaries that the three of us placed on Wolf was that we needed to discuss potential partners with everyone and we all had to approve. I know that some people on this forum don't approve of a veto system, but we all have kids and have to be extra careful.
 
Andy, this seems to be a relatively common problem. You'll find that it is easier to find women who are willing to cheat with you than be open with you. But, you have to determine that your values are more important than convenience. If they are, my guess is that you will be rewarded with patience.

You just have to understand the odds are not running in your favor. And, just like anything else with poor odds, you need more "puts" or trys to find what you're looking for. So, as long as you understand that your failure rate will be high and that the more different attempts you make are critical to eventual success, then you'll be ok.

Alternatively, you can take it slowly and relax about the whole thing. Try to enjoy the connections you make - maintain your integrity -and recognize that they will more likely than not fail to advance very far. And, continue at a "put" rate that makes you comfortable. If you do this, you have to accept longer distances between finding a more satisfying or full relaitonship...

I tend to take the alternative relaxed view myself. But, I recognize that the former - more "puts" strategy - is filled with win. I just don't have the time and energy to put forth that kind of effort.
 
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. . . I was chatting with someone yesterday and we were seeming like we had great potential, until she found out I wasn't just "in love and living with another woman", but were married. She said shes not sure if she'd be okay with that.

Have some of you other married poly people had this happen? How do you handle it? Its hurting my wife because she feels like she is the one wrecking everything, when she's been incredibly supportive and would like to see something progress. She suggested we just hide the fact that we are married, but I just don't like to lie. But honestly, why is it such a big issue?
It goes against the grain of what we are taught in Western society. I am very nervous about meeting the wife of a man with whom I've been chatting online. It's simply out of my realm of experience. It's out of the realm of experience for most people, I would say, to have "permission" from a spouse to date their mate. The marriage license, a legal document, confers a certain amount of authority to your wife. That's intimidating to someone else. Whereas, a girlfriend can feel like there's more possibility of being an "equal" with other lovers of yours, if you were involved only with someone to whom you weren't married.

I think, besides the online dating thing, you might find some success looking in venues or situations that attract "alternative lifestyles." Don't know what sort of communities you have around you, but often the free thinkers in other areas will be more likely to embrace free thinking on sex and relationships. I've heard it be suggested to look at groups or people involved in gaming, RenFaires, co-housing, BDSM, Burning Man, nudism, sci-fi, intentional communities, New Age and other "spiritual" philosophies, etc., in order to meet other poly-minded or poly-friendly people. Have you looked at a variety of Meetups (meetup.com) in your area, not just poly ones?

I think you have to be patient, too. Finding someone won't happen overnight. Of course, you know that.

Also, it sounds like all might not be lost with the woman who most recently expressed hesitation. She hasn't said she can't do it, has she? Maybe some more conversation with her is in order, and perhaps some interaction with your wife.
 
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...take it slowly and relax about the whole thing. Try to enjoy the connections you make - maintain your integrity -and recognize that they will more likely than not fail to advance very far.
I agree with this. I don't know where you are looking, but where ever it is, its not working. So change it. You aren't looking in the right place it seems.

I would suggest going to a local poly meet, or start one up. Make friends with like minded people and find out who you get along with... see what develops out of that.

It sounds like you are looking for a secondary, but one that you will love less and be available to less emotionally, and who will be less than your wife. I would find that really uninteresting as it kind of says to me that I am not worthy of the same amount of love and attention as someone else in your life. At least that is what it sounds like... Is that the case? To be honest, I wouldn't be interested either. Why would anyone want to invest in that? Unless they were cheating and just want sex. Perhaps its your approach?

I get that you love your wife and want to be firm that that will not change and the course of action you have planned with her is set, but it almost seems too firm. Have you done any reading about secondaries? Have you read the secondaries bill of rights? http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915 It might be helpful to be empathetic and discover what it might be like to date a man like you. What can you offer a woman in the situation you are in? What reason would she have to date you when she can date someone who wants to create a family with her? If you are not willing to create some of what she needs in life, then what would be the point?

I'm hoping I don't come across as snarky as that isn't my intent... I am hoping that this kind of way of looking at it might help you find a way to someone that suits your situation and lifestyle choice.

I was the secondary of a man and his girlfriend once. We had a great time until the relationship naturally came to a point where there could be more depth and connection if we communicated and moved forward. He laughed at me essentially and told me that what we had was just fun and not worth more. He was actually pissed off that I was requesting more. I was heart broken. Obviously we had not the same intentions of where we were going when we started out. I know now to always ask what kind of philosophy a person has about relationships and what they are looking for so as to not go there if we aren't on the same wavelength. I'm saying this because I think that just by being honest and standing firm on your convictions you will eventually find someone that admires that and is willing to give what you have to offer a try.

Here is a thread that might help
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2927
 
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I think you already realise what it is about. People feel like marriage means more than it really does. Maybe they see it as they will always be the lesser person in the relationship maybe? Maybe they see themselves married one day and because of polygamy laws, they realise they will never have that dream.

I personally feel marriage is overrated, though I do understand a lot of people feel it is important to have.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I do appreciate it.

Mindfulagony - I like your line about trying to enjoy the connections I make. I was pondering this lastnight in a way. In reality, I haven't been looking that long. And in that time I have made a handful of connections. None are what I want or even close to it yet, but I have met some new people via the internet anyway.


NYcindie- I understand its got to be a bit awkward dating a man with a wife.. but it would be sorta the same with a g/f... any other lover is going to be intimidating to a degree until the potential g/f gets to know me and maybe my wife as well and sees that shes truly okay with things and not going to go physico on us/her. As far as being equal goes.. I will elaborate on that in a moment.

Your other idea on meeting people are interesting.... never heard that said, but it does make sense.... I am not sure how I would make a poly connection in a unrelated group. I don't know if I am bold enough to just come right out and ask a woman if she would be interested in dating me even though I am married. :/

RP- I've been keeping my ear to the ground for any local poly groups. I found a dead yahoo poly group for my city, but there don't seem to be any members active or local. There are some about 2 hours away in the Minneapolis area. Problem is I never get up that way and I am not real up for dating someone that lives there. I want someone I can see in person without 4 hours in a car. Spending enough time with a poly group there, to get comfortable with with the people in it is more in time and gas money then I have.

Starting something local would be cool. If I could meet some other poly people here maybe we could. I found 2 (a couple) on OKC and said hello to both in hopes that we could share ideas and maybe they knew of some resources. Neither replied. I will certainly keep looking.

Your assumptions are correct... too a degree. Whom ever I find needs to know that my wife and I are stable and she can't get ideas about taking her place. This is part of why I think I need to be honest about being married. I am not just looking to date until I find someone better, then latch onto her and move on.

As far as her being loved less, or me being less attached to her... I am not sure I can agree 100%. I don't like superlatives and comparatives when it comes to love, relationships and people. You said something in another post a few weeks ago I really liked. To quote from memory, you said something to the effect that love is fluid, and sometimes you are more in love with the fall colors on the trees then with either of your partners. This is true for me. I always care about the people I am close to, but as far as that "in love" feeling, it really depends on the moment where it is stronger. The secondary would be a lesser part of my life, as the term secondary would imply, but it doesn't mean I would love her less when we were together and in eachothers company.

I think a secondary relationship could offer a lot for everyone involved. Primaries too.
One of the things about marriage is I married my wife because we share some of the very key qualities that will likely mean we will stay married. The same ideas on where we want to live, how we spend money, raising children, religion, etc.
She lacks other qualities I crave. That is life. No one can be 100% perfect. We have to compromise.

So lets say that I meet a g/f that shares my love of intelligent conversation, my tastes in music, can relate to my complicated emotional side, can take my satire and sarcasm and dish it right back, has a different body type or sense of style that I dig. That would be awesome. Even if it doesn't last forever, just having some time to experience that with someone would feel great. It would mean I could more easily focus on the things that are perfect about my wife, and forget we don't share this or that, because I get to share that with this other girl that is close to my heart, and don't have to care that she wants to move to the other side of the world someday and spends all her money on a whim and whatever else she does that would drive me nuts in a one on one relationship. I can gloss over the bad and just enjoy what I love about her. She gets to do the same with me, gets to enjoy a close emotional bond, gets to know I care about her, love her and appreciate her for who she is and am not in it to try and "own" her or just have sex with her. The Primaries get pressure taken off them to be something they can't or don't want to be know their partner is happy, get to enjoy the NRE, ect.

I know in the real world things don't always go real smooth, but in just using reasonable logic, it does make sense in my head at least.

I am rambling on and on... lol Poly comes in so many forms. Mine is maybe "softcore poly" I am just looking to be able to love and move forward with and develop something fun and feel good. Not really looking for anything close to forever, me+you+her kinda thing. I've made so many great female friends in my life that hold me at arms length. I do understand mostly, but would really like to meet one that doesn't, and lets things go further.

Anyway, thanks for the input redpepper. No, you're not snarky. I like you and respect you and your input. :)

-Andy
 
Thanks Andy! I enjoyed your "rambling!" It cleared some things up in my mind about marriage and polyamory.
 
Marriage makes a difference....

Hello all,

First time poster, but I so enjoy the feeling of support this site offers, I wanted to weigh in.

While I consider myself new to poly (in an open marriage to mono husband) I find that it's not just women who have that reaction. My OSO and I have been seeing each other for just over 5 months. I have been (and would always be) completely open and honest about being married. And my OSO has very firm ideals that my marriage must always come first. He is divorced and says he couldn't handle being the cause of putting another couple through that experience.

While he is willing to pursue a relationship with me, unlike the women who are not willing to even try, E (OSO) has told me straight out he won't "allow himself" to love me. Says it's a a reasonable self protection stance. Perhaps feel like the marriage will always mean they will be hurt eventually.

Personally, his reticence is hurting me. I can see he cares - it's there in so many ways as we deepen our relationship - but I don't know that I will ever hear it. And being new to poly and the one who "has the best of both worlds (husband and lover)" I wonder if it really is unfair of me to want to push his objections aside.

Any others faced his reaction?
 
Hello all,

First time poster, but I so enjoy the feeling of support this site offers, I wanted to weigh in.

While I consider myself new to poly (in an open marriage to mono husband) I find that it's not just women who have that reaction. My OSO and I have been seeing each other for just over 5 months. I have been (and would always be) completely open and honest about being married. And my OSO has very firm ideals that my marriage must always come first. He is divorced and says he couldn't handle being the cause of putting another couple through that experience.

While he is willing to pursue a relationship with me, unlike the women who are not willing to even try, E (OSO) has told me straight out he won't "allow himself" to love me. Says it's a a reasonable self protection stance. Perhaps feel like the marriage will always mean they will be hurt eventually.

Personally, his reticence is hurting me. I can see he cares - it's there in so many ways as we deepen our relationship - but I don't know that I will ever hear it. And being new to poly and the one who "has the best of both worlds (husband and lover)" I wonder if it really is unfair of me to want to push his objections aside.

Any others faced his reaction?

The word "love" to some people has a lot of baggage attached to it. In relationships it could mean monogamy, or ownership, or commitment. He will love you, but he does not want to love you in such a way to want to break up your marriage and take possession of you. I would let him handle the relationship in the way that works best for him, withholding that kind of possessive love that society expects of us. Yes, I think it is unfair of you to ask or want him to profess his un-dieing love for you. That might go beyond his comfort zone and it could cause problems. That's just my opinion on the matter.
 
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i think that most women are in the "monogamous" or "primary" mindset and THEY want to be the wife. A lot women of that age are starting to think about finding someone to marry and buy a house and have kids with, so of course getting involved with a married man who has no intention of leaving his wife would be a big turn-off, I would have to imagine. You have to accept that your dating pool is going to be DRASTICALLY diminished than if you were single looking for a monogamous relationship with the possibility of marriage.

Mark it on a calander, I'm about to agree with NK.

She's right. I'm finding much the same issue with men. Men my age are looking for toys, or a wife. There aren't many out there willing to "settle" for being the SO and not the spouse. They do exist, it's just hard to find.
 
Really, really interesting post.

I can completely empathize and sympathize with you. Having faced much of the same derailing....women just don't want to share...I have not faced really any severe aversions to married versus a committed relationship but that's not to say that even the committed relationship aspect of the conversation ends up a deal breaker.

Ultimately it comes down to finding some who can see marriage as a committed relationship that is on the next level.

I cannot give insight into the women who reject us and their mindset other than what I have been told and it comes down to married or just in a committed relationship the reasons are the same.

As for your SO feeling like it's her fault, you'd have to ask TP about that. She has expressed to me that it's not me that they are rejecting but her.
 
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