cowboy confessional

elemental

New member
I’m a Cowboy. I push boundaries to breaking points. I have cheated in all my previous long term relationships under the guise of “polyamory”. I have selfish tendencies around relationships and sex. I am very sexual, have a strong sexuality, love to experiment, and a sexual late bloomer. When push comes to shove I have a history of giving myself what I want, when I want it. I have enabled my behaviour by refusing to address character deficiencies with self serving explanations. I have been sneaky, and dishonest to partners in the past. I have a long rebellious history with any kind of authority and am prone to addictive behaviours, having struggled with addiction issues and anger management most of my adolescent/adult life. I am charismatic, attractive, masculine, strong and creative, a man's man. I come from middle class white upbringing, with an anarchistic street punk art student youth. I have been criminally minded, and a long history of living in the margins,
In the shadows, between the cracks. I am self employed, a self made man.

I am 42, in a relationship with the woman of my dreams who is 10 years younger for the last five years, married for 2. We came together as a casual encounter, both being in sexually unsatisfying relationships, her with permission, me in a “don’t ask, don’t tell” forced open kind of way. We fell in love, she left her fiancé to be with me, and I left my wife.
Our relationship was bonded on an incredible sexual connection, and we worked hard to add the compatible elements of a partnership as we went along, both of us working really hard to stay together, to do our self work, counselling, self examination, group work ect.
We have grown a great love, and understand each other like no one else ever has in our lives, having seen all the warts. She knows me, keeps me honest by not letting me get away with my past patterns, for the most part, stands up to me. She is a strong woman for sure, also a self made woman. A Boss.

We both have a long history with poly. Her with multiply boy/girl friends, me with multiple girlfriends, being the secondary in a MMF. So when it came time for us to want to open up our relationship, to experiment it came pretty naturally for us. We experimented with a threesome, had a great time, moved to a couple, also great except for some compatibility issues, moved on to another threesome, and met this great lady, a student at a local university, looking for us as well. Things started so well, fun, great sex, great communication; we quickly went deeper than any of our previous experiences. My wife was falling in love with this woman, quickly making plans to include her in our life.
I cautioned against rushing in to anything, but was quickly swept up in NRE, let my guard down, quickly developed feelings for this woman, all with the encouragement from my wife. That’s when my Cowboy tendencies started to really come out.

I started pushing our agreed upon boundaries, the physical, the emotional. Initiating contact outside of the triad, initiating sex when it made my wife uncomfortable, always wanting more. I was falling in love with our girlfriend, and it was scaring the shit out of my wife. We would talk and talk with each boundary transgression, I would assure her that it wouldn’t happen again, but still I would find ways to push the limits, always in my head finding ways to justify my actions, my feelings. It came to a head when my wife came home from work and found us in bed together. That changed everything for my wife, killed her NRE for our girlfriend, and was the moment of change in our poly life.

Me chipping away at her trust has now blown a huge hole in our relationship. After a month of trying to work it out she broken up with our girlfriend, again after another boundary transgression, me meeting up with our GF having drinks at a bar with friends, me just showing up unannounced, uninvited. Me just doing what I want, not thinking of anyone else, just being a Cowboy. We had worked our way back to giving the triad another shot, and I just ramble in and fuck everything up with my stupid selfish behaviour. Now I have split up our GF and my wife, who really care about each other but I feel I have eroded my wife’s trust to the point of not wanting to re-establish the relationship. Our GF loves the couple experience, and I have taken that from her. There has been talk of me and our GF continuing on in a V with my wife, but I don’t know if that is even possible now. I really care for our GF, want to keep seeing her but can’t have a relationship with her at the expense of my primary relationship. Yee–fucking-haw.

So I have this battle inside of me, my wants and desires of poly triad partnership with my wife and our (ex)GF, my desire to keep seeing her myself, and my concern for my wife and my love for her and our relationship. Add to it all my Cowboy tendencies and it’s just a party in my head and heart.

I am posting this as a way to get it out of myself, to add to it as it comes. My questions to the community on here are mostly for others like me, reformed Cowboys/girls who like me have struggled with these issues. Any tips on coping or ways to work this out of myself, I really do want to be a better man, to be the man I know I can be. I want to be a good poly man, who lives his life being good to his partners, taking care of their needs and feelings, as well as my own. I want to change these Cowboy ways.
 
So, why does the gf bear no responsibility... was she unaware that your wife would object to finding the two of you in bed together? As for the couple experience, your gf can find that with many other people, hot bi babes are always in demand, you haven't taken that chance away from her.

If I were you I would step away and let it be a vee with your wife as the hinge. Let her and the gf be together, if indeed they want that, and you stay out of it until you all feel you've regained some trust. A test, basically -- will you actually be able to stay away? Can you change? Or, maybe you and your wife should abandon poly for the time being altogether while you do some counseling or soul-searching or will-strengthening exercises or something.

Your behavior pattern sounds kind of compulsive. What do you think caused you to act that way? On the one hand, your past history suggests you just have issues that need work, I almost thought antisocial personality at some points since you seemed to have so much self confidence to the point of arrogance paired with so little regard for the feelings of others.

On the other hand, *why* was it so bad for you to be in bed with the gf, or to drop in on a social outing? I feel strongly that even triads need alone time for the various dyads involved so if that wasn't allowed, I can certainly see why you (and, perhaps, she as well) would strain against that particular boundary. Seriously, I can never understand the idea that it's ok to fuck or socialize in a group but not separately, it seems to set people up to break the rules since it's such a natural desire to spend some one-on-one time with someone you like now and then... in my mind anyway. It's like, if you're going to do poly just go for it. How is someone your "girlfriend" if you're not allowed to meet them at a bar? I know that doesn't address the issue you're asking for help with so please excuse the mini-rant, it's just a pet peeve, as someone involved with a married couple.

Kudos, anyway, on wanting to change, nothing can happen without that.
 
Good for you fessing up to your short comings as you see it. That is very brave. It seems that you need more bravery and more fessing up however....

This is thread that might help with the term "cowboy." It doesn't seem to me that you are a cowboy by the regular descriptions in poly theory. I would say you are a "cheater." With a cheater mindset. I have been one also and it took years to re-train my head.

It takes years to get through the entitlement one learns to take on when one cheats. Its almost as if no one else exists. The concept of being considerate/empathetic/compassionate seems to have to be re-learned. It sounds to me like you have not learned this yet. So start now. Every time you find yourself in desire of what YOU want, ask yourself what would occur if you acted on that. How would your wife feel about it, how would your gf feel, what would the possible scenario unfold if you were to "go there?"

I would suggest that if you have one ounce of doubt about what you are doing, either don't do it and relay the circumstance later to those involved and check if your gut was right, or ask. Make a phone call and check it out. Don't assume anything and don't expect others to be willing to just bend because you want them to. If they say that in no way would they be okay with what you are asking, then don't do it. Walk away.

I would suggest asking your wife for help on this. You seem to be unable to do it alone. You will likely have to make yourself very vulnerable to her and others, but in that, you might be able to re-build your integrity in her eyes so that she can trust you again. You will have to work hard to get to a point where YOU trust yourself again.
 
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Actually his negative application, makes more sense then the poly-applied one.
When speaking of ignorant crap, anyhow.
 
Elemental, I give you total credit for being self-aware. You acknowledge things that few would dare admit to themselves. The challenge you have is to be honest now with others. It won't be pretty. When you live in an untenable lie, the only way to break it and mold it into something real is to be honest about your bullshit.

I wish you luck. You have the intelligence to do it. Now show that you have the courage.
 
On the other hand, *why* was it so bad for you to drop in on a social outing?

Because he wasn't invited. I mean sure, it's a free country and people can go where they please. But when your partner tells you "I'm going out with some friends" and doesn't include "would you like to come?" it's a clear indication that your presence will be unwelcome. Ignoring her desires and showing up uninvited is disrespectful. By the sounds of it, he got in trouble from the girlfriend for intruding on her outing with friends, not from his wife for meeting up with the girlfriend behind the wife's back.

It doesn't seem to me that you are a cowboy by the regular descriptions in poly theory. I would say you are a "cheater." With a cheater mindset. I have been one also and it took years to re-train my head.

While I don't disagree that parts of his (mis)behaviour include cheating, I don't think that's the core of what he's referring to. His issue is much deeper than just cheating, it seems to extend into many aspects of his life.

I think the word he's looking for is "outlaw."
 
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My girlfriend started out not unlike you. She cheated on virtually every partner she'd ever had.

Eventually she learned about poly and it changed her life. She started living openly with her partners, started being honest with herself and with them that she could not do monogamy.

So it is possible to reform.

But I think before you start working on being poly, you need to work on yourself. To be blunt: what you describe as "cowboy ways" I describe as "being a jerk." It's not enough to state that as a fact, you have to actually change it. Start doing things for other people. At first, you'll just have to force yourself, but eventually you'll learn how wonderful it feels to make someone happy (other than yourself). Once you get a taste of the reward, you'll probably start doing it more, and that can really be an upward spiral.
 
Pride and Falls

It does something wonderful to my heart to see you on here; no change can come from outside, only from within, and while there is growth that others can inspire you, it's the growth that you choose to pursue yourself that will alter the course of your life in unimaginably beautiful ways. I am proud of you for being on here, and speaking your truth - for sharing the places you hide, and being honest. Free yourself from old ways, and find a new way of being, am here to support and love you as you find out what that new ways is.
 
Oh, BP, I thought maybe this guy was your husband. Your situations seem so similar.
 
I don't know anything about the specifics of "cowboy ways" being in the mid west and not being around many cowboys however, self gratifying, addictive, selfish behavior is found everywhere.

Your charm, charisma, intelligence, physical appearance all help you feed this high sex drive. The moment is always worth the risk ...or makes its more exciting. Most likely in the past your skills could get you out of a jam if and when they happened...."it just how I am."

You need coping skills to learn how to honor agreements? Or how not to think with your dick ...How bout a big rubber band ...when starts happening give it a good snap.....oops ....this suggestion just turn on a big segment here...(only try this if this would be considered unpleasant).

Maybe talking to a therapist about past patterns and destructive behaviors....discuss whats really important to you long term.

Good luck D
 
Ahh, I see. That provides a lot of context.

If it helps, this kind of thing happens to a lot of couples. My gf and her husband went through something similar in several ways when they were both dating the same girl: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98156&postcount=123

The husband in their story, Eric, also had a history of bad behaviors and pushing boundaries leading up to their poly triad crisis. In the end, he sort of forced himself to develop a deeper sense of empathy in order to regain his wife's trust... he truly changed himself. They took a year long break from poly and opened back up in a much slower, more deliberate way when they felt they were ready. Things have been MUCH better since.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses. Just checking in on the tread before I go into more detail, I really like this forum and the posters insight, read it a lot to get perspective, know everyone has an opinion, look forward to adding mine to the mix. Yeah I am Baggage Patrol’s Hubbo, read her posts up for her context. I do think that “outlaw cheater” is a more appropriate title, didn’t have the full scoop on the cowboy reference, that is what BP was referring to me as so I used it. Our GF has also read our posts and hope to encourage her to also add to the forum mix, although she frequents another forum.

Yeah I have to see myself in a clear harsh light and not sugar coat it, seems the only way I can deal. I have done a sht ton of personal work, mostly around addiction/abuse recovery and anger mod, guess the selfish cheater part is next to get the scrubbing lol… anywayz cant stop wont stop right? Looking forward to addressing all the points raised, but for now lets just say thanks for the opportunity to air my sht out, and have a chance to change and grow, I can’t see any other way that appeals to me.

Evolve or die trying

EleMENTAL
 
I do think that “outlaw cheater” is a more appropriate title

Yeah I have to see myself in a clear harsh light and not sugar coat it, seems the only way I can deal.

Evolve or die trying

EleMENTAL

Take the "outlaw" part off. Outlaw still sounds cool and dangerous and appealing. You are very good at seeing yourself but it still sounds like you are glamorizing your selfishness.
 
Take the "outlaw" part off. Outlaw still sounds cool and dangerous and appealing. You are very good at seeing yourself but it still sounds like you are glamorizing your selfishness.
yup, agreed, just "cheater." You don't seem to be any different than a lot men I know that cheat so why the "outlaw" part? Its "cheating"... Full stop. Adding any more to it is just self centered and that's part of the problem. Now go change it.
 
Classic "Addict" behaviors....through and through!! Lived with one.....worked as a therapist with several. Get thee back into some therapy ASAP as you're exhibiting "relapse" behaviors. Sounds like you worked hard in the past to stop the negative behaviors but ran into a trigger(s) you weren't prepared for. Good luck!
 
Classic "Addict" behaviors....through and through!! Lived with one.....worked as a therapist with several. Get thee back into some therapy ASAP as you're exhibiting "relapse" behaviors. Sounds like you worked hard in the past to stop the negative behaviors but ran into a trigger(s) you weren't prepared for. Good luck!
*like
 
Ok just “cheater”- cheater confessional. Shit I don’t like that, don’t see myself as totally selfish, a people user and cheater… I do see the addition behavior though from my past, that obsessive compulsion to want more, immediately, that helps to see that, to see myself in a triggered state. That makes a lot of sense to me. Lol at the idea of running to therapy every time something vexes me, I have good friends and self care and self awareness to cope with this life, not that “therapy” isn’t helpful, but I am not so out of control that I can’t take a step back and address the behavior. So that is a helpful insight to me. I feel the same way about creating boundaries in the triad that set up failure, about the need to control the inevitable at times pairing off. In conversations with Baggage Patrol I also see how she would have got there eventually, we (gf and me) just rushed the whole thing. I feel much more in tune with her comfort level and boundary zones, and moving forward see us taking steps back and slowing down the pace of our extra relationships. I also find useful the idea of self checking in before being impulsive / spontaneous and asking questions around my partners comfort zone. I see I need to do work around the perception that boundaries = controlling, something that I chafe against, and really find useful the links to similar stories, of other triad experiences to relate to. I think my attitude of “we’re poly, lets just go for it” has created discomfort with BP slower more cautious approach which just appeared after “the event” of finding GF and me in bed together. Which is an issue for me, because up until that point it was full speed ahead. I think I have taken a lot longer to apply the breaks, once her discomfort started, obviously because I wasn’t feeling it.
 
OK, so you are Baggage Patrol's husband.

No wonder "poly" isn't working for you two, and BP is so fucking miserable.

BP seems like a wonderful woman and you're really hurting her, elemental. Please, in the name of all that is holy and good, drop your gf, forget about "polyamory" (since what you are doing is in no way poly, but just fucking around), and work on becoming more honest and respectful.

Oh, for the record, the term cowboy, or cowgirl, in poly argot, means a person who becomes a partner, either of one or both of a couple, and tries to cut one of the couple out, and take the partner for him or herself. Hence, our confusion.
 
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whoa, lots of hostility! I earlier tried to post a reply, see that it hasn't come up yet, as to be approved by a moderator? Huh. Well I can see that you have been following BP side of events, but as usual there are more sides to this story, ones that I will save until I talk to BP first about posting, issues in our relationship / in this triad directly that haven't been represented. I take responsibility for my mistakes, but I'm not going to hang around in here and be told I'm just fucking around, because that's not the case! jeezuz
 
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