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Old 01-05-2010, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post

Which definition are you finding you cannot embrace? And why does this definition including your lifestyle choice as well as others make you feel you cannot embrace it?
~Raven~
I think the part I find hard (I know I'm not RP-I've been following this thread with great intrique) is the lack of coherency. I don't care one way or another WHAT the definition is-I find the lack of clarity more frustrating then I can handle...
I guess most of all what I'd like to see is a clear understanding and agreement as to what the heck we mean when we use (ANY) word. I find it very confusing and disconcerting trying to talk to anyone when I'm unsure if we actually have similar understandings of the terms we are using.
Primarily because the biggest issue in my marriage has been that we (Maca and I) do not share the same definitions for the major (and not major) key words in relationships-which has led to MUCH heartache and unnecessary strife.

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Originally Posted by constlady View Post
Thank you for your words dakid. Though the areas in which we live may be very different, it does give some hope that each case may be judged on its own merits.

That said, it is still a very real fear. And while I agree that removing the prejudices surrounding alternative lifestyles is the long term goal, once again my reality is that I and my grandchildren can't wait for that to occur.

Changing minds and hearts and removing prejudices is a generational task.
Very few people open up to changing their core beliefs (no matter how illogical they may be) by being confronted and challenged in a manner which puts them on the defensive. Once most people feel attacked, their response is to put up defenses which rarely allow for even the most logical of arguments to be truly heard.

I believe that as human beings we are far more alike than we are different.
But I also believe that the way to achieve meeting the mainstream half way isn't by pointing out the most different members of our community and trying to show how similar they are but by pointing out the most similar members and then expanding outward.

At this moment in time, it's a matter of what works in this existing world, not what the ideal world would look like to me. In my ideal world, no one would actually care how anyone else loved, other than as perhaps a way to expand their own horizons.
Working towards creating that is a long term goal; working towards protecting those who love differently than the current norm until the ideal is achieved is the short term goal.
It may take different tactics to reach both goals.

Someone else mentioned research into children raised in polyfamilies, hopefully to garner support for the idea that there is no inherent detriment to them. My understanding is that such research is currently beginning, though I'd have to dig through another site to remember the details.
It is a known issue among people who are poly activists - we need to have the research to back us up when we take on the status quo.

What I'd like to see in terms of legislation at this point in time is simple.
Any agency charged with determining the suitability of a particular home for children should not be basing their recommendation in any way on the parent/guardian's sex life, unless of course that sex life includes abuse of the children, which to my way of thinking is a totally separate issue.
I find this very well spoken and so far fitting much with my thoughts.
Where I live there are no "poly groups". There is very little knowledge of the word even. In fact having extra adults in a home (regardless of how they are identified) has been a BIG issue in custody battles here because of "appearance" causing the children "undo duress" in their public lives. While I personally find that eyerolling-I also am fully aware of the HIGH risk since "our" kids aren't "all ours"... AND they have other family members who already DO have issues with our life-and none of them KNOW we are poly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post
if only the united states government could be persuaded of the merits of these rights.
SECOND. THIRD. FOURTH.
And all other countries as well!!

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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Judge a family based on the individual environment, rather than based on a set of keywords. Does the family environment provide a good one for kids to grow up in or not?
If this was across the board that would be awesome. But the other thing to understand here is that just because laws are changed-which would be AWESOME-that doesn't solve the problem either, because the truth is judges aren't machines-they are people with prejudices of their own and this DOES impact their decisions (something I've seen first hand MANY times).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post

If there can be an asshole monogamous person, there can be an asshole polyamorous person.
For me the difference is that I wouldn't identify an asshole as amorous anything-polyamorous, monoamorous. They are just an asshole. It's kind of like the word (no offense intended here) nigger. It doesn't mean "black" it means ignorant. If someone IS a "nigger" it makes NO difference if they appear black, white, green, red, yellow etc.
Well an asshole may be ACTIVELY in a mono or poly relationship-but I wouldn't identify their person as anything but an asshole...

(not in anyway being derogatory fyi-just sharing my thought process)

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Originally Posted by constlady View Post
I feel fairly confident that should a court battle arise, I would end up prevailing, given the fact that I do have good resources to draw on and the fact that the kids are safe, happy, healthy and thriving.

That doesn't mean that the battle itself won't do damage, emotionally and financially at the very least.
The children involved really cannot be put through such a tumultuous event again.


Having experienced the reality that the agencies appointed to protect children don't always follow their own rules and that application of the rules and the determinations vary from caseworker to caseworker even within the same agency, I'd prefer not to have to fight the system again.
Exactly. My stepson is already in full time psychological care because of the damage caused by 10 years of court battles between his parents. Honestly-if court paperwork were brought up in regards to my younger children-I would leave (illegally) with them and "disappear". Its simply not worth it to them to go through that b.s. again.

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Originally Posted by jasminegld View Post
UUs for Polyamory Awareness defines polyamory as the philosophy and practice of loving or relating intimately to more than one other person at a time with honesty and integrity.

UUPA's definition includes both philosphy and practice, to be inclusive of people who identify as poly but don't currently have multiple partners.

UUPA's definition includes "relating intimately" to be inclusive of people for whom the term "loving" is problematical, such as people in the gray area between polyamory and swinging. If they choose to call themselves poly, that's fine. If they don't, that's fine.

The definition doesn't specifically state "between adults," because teenagers can have poly dating relationships with other teenagers, and 17 year-olds can have poly dating relationships with 18 year olds. Substituting "age-appropriate" doesn't solve it, because we have no consensus on what constitutes "age-appropropriate" age differences among consenting and legal adults. So it becomes entirely too complicated to address all of that in a brief defition that a person can actually remember.

The "honesty and integrity" phrase is intended to cover "adults don't abuse children," as well as "people don't abuse people."
I think that's cool the way it's defined-but can you tell me what UU and UUPA stands for? (sorry if this was already addressed elsewhere, I have been out of the loop for a bit now)

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Originally Posted by dakid View Post
why is it that you are uncomfortable about including sex to the extent you describe?
i hope i am right in thinking that there is no current threat to your custody of your son, and that this is highly unlikely in the future.
I'm not RP, but would like to say-I find that my sex life need not be a part of discussion publicly in regards to my relationships-and sort of feel like the definition of a word used to define my relationships shouldn't include so much sex in its definition...
Not that it should specifically limit what sexual practices a person with that type of relationship can have, but that it not be addressed.
(fyi-I realize some of my current thoughts are in contradiction to thoughts I had expressed only a week or two ago-I have been thinking a LOT on this during my surgery and recovery while reading everyone's posts and am continuing to clarify things and change them around in my head).

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Originally Posted by jasminegld View Post
It is my understanding that this is already the professional standard for licensed social workers. Now, whether an individual social worker adheres to the standard is a different question.

More importantly, the recommendation of the social worker is ONLY a recommendation. The decision is made by the family court judge, to whom the social workers' professional standards don't apply.

If we want to turn things around, we need out polys giving presentations to the next generation of lawyers and judges in law school classes, as well as to the next generation of social workers.
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  #72  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:53 AM
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Default continued....

Repeat of what I said before-these are people who make these decisions and like all people-they have their own prejudices and issues. Hell we still have men fighting against the prejudices that say children should always be with the mother in custodial court-God forbid one of those men be poly also-damn near to a guarantee loss for them at that point.
I do agree that out-poly's need to be educating the judges, lawyers, social workers, psychologists etc. But how do we put that into effect?

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Originally Posted by dakid View Post
that is interesting. it is certainly the situation here in the UK but i had understood from others than it wasn't in the US. do you know what a US citizen would be able to do should an individual social worker not adhere to that standard? perhaps the folk on this board who seem to believe otherwise are basing that view on individual experiences of individual social workers rather than knowledge of the overall professional standards. it would certainly be interesting to know what a person's rights would be in cases of bad practise and what protection is in place for them.
You can keep going back to court as often as you want-on your own dime if you don't like the decision. BUT you can't easily get a new judge. In custody situations the judge decides if there is cause for a new judge to take over the case. You can ask-but they can choose to deny (happens a lot).
Also-you can request a new social worker to do the case IF you live in an area where there are enough for that to happen. Where I live-there are only two who deal with custodial stuff like that.... and they are friends. Not much hope there. You can hire a private custody investigator on your own dime, but again-the judge CAN (and often do) choose not to take the CI's suggestions-most often to the detriment of the family.
There really isn't any GOOD protection in place.
Our state laws say that the goal is to keep the child in the home of the bio-parent (even so far as if the bioparent does drug rehab and has 10 days clean they can regain the children). But this doesn't actually help in most cases-because the most common cases are between two bio-parents. There is no preference STATED for that-though it seems to favor the woman most commonly-and it's my understanding from volunteer work in this field-that our state is the most liberal in custody decisions and most OFTEN rules in favor of the father-but the fathers still are the minority overall here.
In our case (stepson)we would be dealing with another bio-parent who is single. So no help there.
As for the baby-it would be grandparents-no real risk of losing the child-but high risk of drama, stress, loss of money and general upheaval for the WHOLE family if they started shit-and as I've said-they've already seriously considered it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
While there is perhaps no current threat to Redpepper's son..there is certainly the possibility of that changing based on the ideas and misinterpretations of those around us.
Ditto. I was under that same impression with RP's son, and the same is true in our case.

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Originally Posted by dakid View Post
if someone wants to make a malicious allegation against you they will, regardless of the word(s) you or any other person uses to describe your or their sex and/or love lives.
This may be true in theory-but not always in reality. In fact in regards to our parents-they love and adore their grandchildren. In general they have no reason, and would not choose to take us to court to remove those children from our care. HOWEVER-if they at any point were to come to the belief that our lifestyle was in anyway endangering their beloved grandchildren-they would immediately take action in court to remove the children from our care-which is basically where things stand with RP. Her parents love their grandchild-and they FEAR what they don't believe is the Unknown-because they believe they DO KNOW that these "risky behaviors" are occuring to their grandchild-because they don't understand what "polyamory" means in their daughters life and therefore-in their love and desire to protect their grandchild from harm their is GREAT risk of them making moves that they would not NORMALLY take against their child on behalf of that child and his welfare.
What is "reasonable risk" for a person to take on their own-is simply NOT reasonable risk when a child is included. Therefore as parents who practice poly-we have a greater risk. We aren't only exposing OURSELVES-but also innocent children who have not choosen to be poly (or mono) at this time. Our FIRST job is to protect them and their interests-promoting a lifestyle right comes somewhere down the list of responsibilities.

As someone else said-a LONG TERM goal is to change the dynamic to allow for no prejudice. But short term-we have to work within the TRUTH of the society we are in.
I would LOVE to fight for the rights of ALL KINDS of people. But if doing so puts my child at risk-I can't do so. They don't deserve to have their lives torn apart for my choices. When they are old enough to make their own choices-then I regain the freedom to fight those battles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post
redpepper and mono, i'd also like to ask - is it that you don't think or want certain behaviours to be part of poly because you don't yourselves approve of those behaviours, or only because you think it is the best tactic to protect your family? is it both? or just the second?
Again-not Mono-or RP. But for me, it's a matter of facing reality when protecting my children. I don't (think I've said this before) care much how the word gets defined-but would like it defined clearly enough for the random mono people to understand it-so I can say "yes that describes us" or "no it doesn't".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Sadly, I do admit to having prejudices and a tendency to judge. I am working on this because I truly understand that what others do does not affect what I have or do.

The only way I see is to not claim to be anything but in a multi-partner relationship.

I don't expect everyone to get over all prejudices. For those (including myself in some areas) it will just be a case of keeping their mouth shut.
If only more people would keep their mouths shut. That would be awesome. In the meantime-we all have prejudices we have to work to find them inside of ourselves and then eradicate them. But this is an ongoing effort-not a "getting it all done today" thing.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I feel I am stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment with all this. Perhaps it is better if I don't talk about it on here. Maybe, but I am hoping that by doing so there will be some understanding between everyone, possibly at my expense. So be it I guess.
Hopefully not at your expense. Hopefully to everyone's clearer understanding and deeper thoughtfulness.

Quote:
My instinct as a mother says, fuck all of you, my bond with my son is threatened. I can tell you now, no mother will now to anyone when their childs safety is threatened. It may seem that way, but, just between you and me, I am pretending and playing mainstream in order to protect my son. I would do ANYTHING including destroying a term I believe in to do that. The term/word/definition of poly means nothing to me where he is concerned. If I can use it and make it so others coming up behind me can use it as a respectable word in the eyes of society , I will do so.
Very reasonably so. I think it makes perfect sense. "mama bears" don't ask questions-they simply protect. That's what they are designed to do. Don't feel guilty about that.

Quote:
Its not the same when a child is involved in polyamorous relationships .
No, no its not. It's not the same in ANY dynamic when child is involved. There are MANY activities that people participate in EVERY DAY in societies the world over that are JUST FINE when a child is not involved. But when a child is involved it requires a bit more "fine tuning". I think this is part of what we are running up against. Example-it's ok to have a drink in your own home with or without children present. Not ok to have a drunken kegger with children present. Likewise it's ok to have a poly relationship that has positive impact on children (like having a third who cares for the child as their own) but when you have a number of random people coming through a revolving door-well that's not going to fly so well as it increases the risks for the child exponentially.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Please be patient. I am finding my feet within all this along with realizing that my own BLOOD is a threat. I have never experienced this before and we are definitely working towards establishing ourselves so that we can fight back if need be. I can PM you with those details as I don't feel comfortable posting them, but until that happens I am unable to accept and trust others to the extent that I would want them to help. Its a pride thing and a time for me to pull my family together. Just incase.
I can tell you this my friend, when we get organized and we find out about what will happen in court I will be fighting tooth and nail if it means our protection and others including those who live poly differently. I would welcome any help then. Until then, please let me quietly prepare. I will use the term for poly that will protect us until I feel safe.
There are many who will happily back you (and ourselves) when the time comes. Even from a distance RP. I hope you know that you aren't alone in your fight. I KNOW it feels like it (because it so often does for me as well) but you aren't alone and you won't be alone. The "silent" and "invisible" friends are here and happy to do all that we can to support you, be it appearing in person or just sending a small email or text that says "we're thinking of you and we love you".
XO
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  #73  
Old 01-05-2010, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I would LOVE to fight for the rights of ALL KINDS of people. But if doing so puts my child at risk-I can't do so. They don't deserve to have their lives torn apart for my choices. When they are old enough to make their own choices-then I regain the freedom to fight those battles...
This puts me in mind of this:

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

I imagine the children might not fare too well when they got around to the last line of the above.

~Raven~
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:21 AM
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Ah, but when it comes to rights, the right to love multiple people is somewhere closer to "communist" -- it's the one people ditch first. Oh, no, they say, we don't want the right to marry more than one person. We just want to get married like you do, heteromonogamous folks!

So we're already not being spoken for. Looks like we'll have to speak for ourselves.
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  #75  
Old 01-05-2010, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
This puts me in mind of this:

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak outóbecause I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outóbecause I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outóbecause I was not a Jew;
Then they came for meóand there was no one left to speak out for me."

I imagine the children might not fare too well when they got around to the last line of the above.

~Raven~
I can see how you could make that connection-though the people who know me personally would be lost in its reference to me.
I'm very much one to speak out-and when it was just me and my oldest daughter (whose entire extended family backed me up and were no threat to me) I spoke out ENDLESSLY on ALL SORTS of things that had no "personal bearing" in my life.

So much so that when I married-and continued to do so, she ended up living out of state for a year (for her own protection) because my husbands exwife tried to kidnap her, took me to court (several times) for made up abuses against her son, tried to take my daughter (10 years old at the time) to court for made up abuses of her son etc. The courts simply didn't care about my daughters well-being. Their ONLY priority was investigating this drug-addicts accusations with no concern for how their methodology impacted my child.

When multiple psychologists and psychiatrists started writing the courts to demand that my stepson no longer be "drug through this torment" of his mothers devising-the courts ignored them as well. They continued to force the child to suffer all sorts of horrors in the name of "rehabilitating" his mother and helping him return to her home (he never had been in HER home to begin with but that was arbitrary).

When my stepson attempted to murder my youngest son (yes literally) and was put incare at age FOUR for his attempt and continued to swear that YES he did intend to kill his younger brother and claimed that his mother WANTED him to so his father would go back to her and care for her-the courts continued to go against the psychiatrists advice and put him in her care off and on (3days on 4 days off) until he finally broke down so badly that he now remains in care with no contact from her BY HIS OWN DEMAND (at age 13) as HE has figured out that the courts won't intervene on his behalf or that of his siblings.

So-do I still speak out-yes, I do. But I do so in a way that doesn't name ME as poly-doesn't name ME as bi in circles where the risk would be to my children.

I wear my rainbows, I associate with the gay/bi community openly (there isn't a poly community in our town) and I remain outspoken against the prejudices. But that is completely different then going out and saying "I'm poly and you can fuck off." knowing that my children's families may drag me (and therefore my children) through more torment and court b.s. that could in turn lead to further psychological damage to my ss as well as psychologically damaging my two younger children.

When they are grown-sure no problem. I'll happily go on tv live and say "yeah dumb asses-I raised these three beautiful, well adjusted, intelligent, well rounded, friendly, caring, natural leader children in a poly relationship. Not only was it successful, it was a HUGE BENEFIT to these children as well."
(I specify 3 because the 4th is as I said-not here to be raised, he's in care).

Until then-the kids come first-and frankly-no amount of love and support for the fight from other minorities is going to protect them from the pain and abuse they will recieve if I call everyone out on the topic.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:34 AM
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I should add too-the children already do depend only on one. That one is me. The oldest 2 have already "seen it all" when it comes to custodial court and I can assure you-no one was there for them-but me. Not one judge, not one custody investigator, no one.

Ironically for my daughter-her father and I settled amicably with no court-so all of the pain and torment she got-was from my husbands ex-wife dragging us endlessly through court on false allegations.

At this point-there is no one there to fight for the kids-and hasn't been in a long long time if ever.

SO-I guess if someone REALLY wanted to motivate a HUGE change-the minority we should be fighting to "bring on board" would be the divorced, unmarried or single parents who suffer and watch their children suffer at our f'd up courts discretion daily. Because if we all united behind the children (our own, those of friends or family or just children in general)-instead of behind our myriad sex practices, we'd be a MUCH bigger group and accomplish EVEN MORE then we can by trying to unite under a vague umbrella term meaning we fuck more than one person.
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:08 AM
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Perhaps I should add that I am openly living my life, I'm completely out to my family, friends and coworkers, I belong to many polyamorous groups, including national associations involved in activism, have given an interview and allowed photos to be taken that identified me as a polyamorous woman.

I'm a firm believer in working to affect the changes in society to reach those long term goals, while doing what I need to do to attain the shorter term goals and the immediate goal of protecting the children in my care.

I do this knowing the risk, believing that I am lucky enough to be better equipped than many others who are in my situation to fight the battle if needed - I have the resources, the network, the connections and the knowledge of the system that it takes to survives such a battle intact, if wounded.

That doesn't mean I want to engage in such a battle because I do know the cost would be far higher to the kids than it is to me, even if we end up "winning".
It's a very fine line to walk and I've been lucky to maintain my balance for this long.

And I certainly understand and empathize with the choice to stay out of the fray; during the time that I was actively dealing with getting the children out of the Department of Social Services' custody, I too stepped back from my activism. There was simply too much at risk.
And now that I have legal custody, there simply is no time!

I truly believe that these kids will feel happy to have been provided a safe, sane, stable, healthy and loving home far more than they will wish I had fought harder for an ideological cause, possibly at their expense.
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by constlady View Post
Perhaps I should add that I am openly living my life, I'm completely out to my family, friends and coworkers, I belong to many polyamorous groups, including national associations involved in activism, have given an interview and allowed photos to be taken that identified me as a polyamorous woman.

I truly believe that these kids will feel happy to have been provided a safe, sane, stable, healthy and loving home far more than they will wish I had fought harder for an ideological cause, possibly at their expense.


I hear you. I am also "out" with my entire family, Maca's family and all of our friends and "chosen family" (not sexual chosen-just chosen). We're not secretive about GG living with us-but we don't share with Maca's co-workers that he is also my boyfriend. So who we choose to be "secretive" with is limited to Maca's coworkers, his exwife and GG's family (who he isn't involved with due to their issues with our baby's custody anyway).

I am very vocal about rights and equality for everyone. I just don't share with THOSE people that I am one of those "everyone's"..
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
SO-I guess if someone REALLY wanted to motivate a HUGE change-the minority we should be fighting to "bring on board" would be the divorced, unmarried or single parents who suffer and watch their children suffer at our f'd up courts discretion daily. Because if we all united behind the children (our own, those of friends or family or just children in general)-instead of behind our myriad sex practices, we'd be a MUCH bigger group and accomplish EVEN MORE then we can by trying to unite under a vague umbrella term meaning we fuck more than one person.
Very true. I know way more than I ever wanted to know about how broken our child protection/foster care system is in this country, and I feel like parents basically surrender all right to privacy from the day their first child is conceived until the last child turns 18.

Mandatory reporters have to report anything that they suspect might be child abuse or neglect, and CPS is required to investigate all of those reports, as well as any from anonymous tip lines, which could be well-meaning but misinformed, or could be someone with a vendetta lying to use CPS as a weapon in a personal conflict (seriously- my ex reported all my local friends to CPS in the months after I filed for divorce, and CPS had to take his claims of people having orgies in front of foster children seriously and do a thorough investigation.)

Combine this with the fact that we're in a recession, and actual child abuse goes up when parents are stressed out by money problems, and actual child neglect goes up when families can't afford to provide for their children's basic needs, and you have social workers who are overworked and have to make snap decisions based on too little information, frequently more their impression of people than any real facts. So, there's been cases where they decided that the child was safe in the home because the house was really clean, and didn't notice that the child was malnourished until it came up on the autopsy after the child was murdered, and there's been other times where families were torn apart because they were some combination of poor, non-white, and didn't keep their house clean enough to pass inspection 24/7.

But the people who know how CPS works enough to have a problem with it have too much to risk to make much of a stink about it, so most Americans still believe that as long as you aren't doing anything wrong, there's nothing to fear from CPS.

Oh, looking around I found a link to an agency that fights to defend sexual privacy rights.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
This puts me in mind of this:

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

I imagine the children might not fare too well when they got around to the last line of the above.

~Raven~
Why did I think someone would bring this up?

The thing is that it's all a fine line. This is a very powerful quote from somewhere that I have seen a million times before and is certainly words to live by, but it simplifies too much for me sometimes. I live by it, but I also remember that life is sometimes like sneaking out for a smoke while I should be in class at highschool. Sure, I did that and got away with it and all the while thought, "fuck you, I can smoke when I want to smoke." there is no need to be in peoples faces about what I do in my private life all the time. I come on here to do that.... I don't have tea with my mum and do that.

In the grown up world this "sneaking" type of learned behavior has become very helpful. Believe me I learned it well from my parents... that is what obedient child rearing does to a child. This is why I believe we are a culture of sneaking around (cheating, steeling, not being honest and open) because we continue to raise children to obey rather than decide for themselves and become self sufficient and independent. I have managed to hide from my parents and others quite successfully in order to pursue what I value in my life, which is my freedom of choice. This whole thing for me is no different.

Because my mother accused Mono of molesting my child we had to come out and tell her what he was doing in our lives, thinking this was going to help. It turned out that it made things worse and she made it so we had to go to a professional to have him checked out. I can tell you I was devastated by this on many levels; my pride at raising an amazing son who is safe and cared for and loved more than many other kids I know, the fact that my mum could distort our reality so badly that she could cause Mono to lose his job (they both work in the same "company"), the fact that she could be so blinded by her version of what is "right" so as to not see properly what was going on is shocking to me still.....(I have felt her wrath before but this was the worst yet) am I going to sit there and give her a blast of poly 101 and all its ins and outs around sex, no! I'm going to shrink away and protect myself and my family, gain strength and do the things I need to do to separate myself from her. Figure out strategies, figure out her game, lick my wounds.... to me it's like a war.

I am also going to be that kid at high school who sneaks out for a smoke too. All the while fighting for what I value and what I believe to be true, that we are entitled to fuck who we want in any way we want and to develop meaningful and deep relationships with whomever we chose. There is nothing sex-negative about that or anti poly word...that has everything to do with staying afloat and keeping from triggering others.... do you really believe that I have had time to sit around and debate within myself the ins and outs of not identifying with poly so as to not offend others in the community? No I haven't had time.... again, I am sorry for this, I realize at some point that will change and I will have time, but for now I am a work in progress as we all are and I will get to it.
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Last edited by redpepper; 01-05-2010 at 04:39 AM. Reason: typo.
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