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  #11  
Old 11-24-2017, 05:40 AM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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If an individual doesn't want to deal with a certain type of situation, then the responsible action sequence is something like
  • know it (be self-aware)
  • own it (no deflection or projection)
  • communicate it
  • support it (don't wimp out on it)
  • revisit it (see whether it changes with time or circumstance)
Steps like that make boundaries a proper component of polyamory.

To fit into poly, nobody has to like any given boundary, not even its owner.

Beating yourself up for a boundary is certainly straying AWAY from polyamory.

(And IMNSHO: treating sex as a distasteful necessity -- merely "an itch to be scratched" but always in some risky manner, as your "partner" is doing -- is NOT emotionally healthy. What next? Strolling the dark corners of the city park after midnight looking to get gang-banged by passers-by? Sounds a LOT like she's seeking punishment.)
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2017, 12:33 PM
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FallenAngelina FallenAngelina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
Yes I'm familiar with codependency. I know I'm codependent, but how is she codependent?
Emotionally healthy people never get involved with actively codependent people. There is just no attraction or place to hook into. Codependence always happens in emotional tandem. For codependence even to be happening, both people have to participate. An emotionally healthy person would have no attraction at all to this situation. That's a very important recovery koan for you to know and to understand when working on your issues. Your issues are only yours to work on and you can move mountains in a relationship by focusing on only your side of things, but the other person is just as internally distressed as you are when codependence is active. You never have to get the other person to change in order to experience a better life for yourself, but you do have to be aware that your partner has issues that are just as deeply rooted as yours. Also know that it's the nature of a codependent system to have one person as the "problem" or the scape goat. One child in the family or one partner in the couple will take the role of the messed up one, taking all of the blame for the turmoil. In fact, everyone fully participates and keeps the cycles active.
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Last edited by FallenAngelina; 11-24-2017 at 12:38 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2017, 02:45 PM
jaymeexvee jaymeexvee is offline
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To me (and forgive me I didnt read many of the comments) it sounds like she's using your possible insecurities to her advantage instead of helping you work on them. Almost seems like a bit of a cuckold relationship - is that something you want?

You need someone who's going to support you and most importantly respect you by respecting the rules and boundaries you have placed on the relationship.

The whole not using protection thing is a huge no-no if that is one of your main rules. I know I would freak out if I found out my partner wasn't using condoms and we had agreed upon that.
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2017, 12:41 AM
rocky rocky is offline
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Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I read them all twice carefully.

I am back home and of course there have been developments.

She admitted it was wrong not to use condoms and promised to continue safely. I feel like she has been making effort to show me that I'm the main guy in her life. Of course, her NRE with her new partner makes me anxious.

The problem in the relationship has boiled down to this. I need her to be transparent because I'm anxious and a naturally controlling guy.

When she tells me details I blow it up into "a monster" and she further withdraws. For example I was expressing how upset I am about how this new guy was basically living in my apartment while I was gone. She said "see this is why I don't tell you things. It does you no good and you just freak out". Then I get further insecure and upset, feeling left out and emotionally abandoned that instead of showing me empathy, she uses logic and reason to prove why she needs to withhold information. It's a cycle that is bringing me to severe anguish. Last night I was in physical pain from this situation.

One of your comments has opened my eyes to something important. She is insecure and is not able to handle her partner being upset with her. She probably has guilt issues with sex. This is why she can't handle me being upset or why she isn't sexualy intimate with me. I was placed me in the "companion" box which is not kinky enough for her. I'm a kind and emotional lover, so this outcome makes sense.

Half the time I would say things are fine, and I'm feeling confident. But the other half of the time I am needing her to make me feel like she understands my hurt. As mentioned she further withdraws when she sees me upset.

My plan is to just work on myself despite my expectations of her. I'm going to not care about her, take my heart back, see other people. It seems she is just as codependent or messed up as I am, and I need to be aware of that moving forward because my expectations are constantly shattered.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2017, 04:17 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi rocky,

Thanks for that update. It sounds like your girlfriend has issues that she isn't willing to work on. You seem to be more willing to work on your own issues. At the moment, I am thinking that the two of you are incompatible, but maybe that can change through the work you do on your issues. To help you do that, you might want to go see a therapist.

If you're going to stay with her, you're going to need to become emotionally independent. You can't hope/expect that she'll understand your hurt because she can't and doesn't want to. You are on your own in this area. Trying to convince her otherwise is just making her angry. She's using it as "proof" that she can't share information with you.

On the other hand, what about this need for information (from her)? Can you let that go? I'm thinking it would please her if you could. And maybe it would solve some problems at closer to their source. It's up to you, you decide what you want to work on. Just keep in mind that you will be the one doing the work, not her. You have to decide if you can live with that.

With regards,
Kevin T.
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:19 PM
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FallenAngelina FallenAngelina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
.. I'm anxious and a naturally controlling guy.

...My plan is to just work on myself despite my expectations of her. I'm going to not care about her, take my heart back, see other people.
You're not "naturally controlling," you learned this as a coping mechanism - the best you can do for now, but it's highly inefficient and ineffective. You can learn to not be controlling, but it takes a lot of conscious effort. Controlling is just a way you've developed in an effort to deal with insecurity and massive fear, it's not "natural."

What is your plan to work on yourself?
You cannot not care about her. You can't decide to take your heart back. That's just a lie to yourself in attempts to not feel pain due to insecurity and those attempts won't work. Better that you focus on developing actual security.
I highly recommend that you do not drag more people into this at this time. You have a lot of work to do on yourself and anyone you attract right now is going to reflect your issues, just as she does. Jumping into "seeing other people" in an attempt to "take your heart back" will be a morass of drama and more pain.

What is your plan to work on yourself?
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Last edited by FallenAngelina; 12-16-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2017, 10:28 PM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I'm a naturally jealous, possessive, and insecure guy
Of course you are. You just said it: that's a really common baseline in Western culture, a definition of "natural."

If you want to stay that way, you have every right, though it makes you inflexible & unable to grow emotionally.

If you want to change, you need to stop locking yourself back in that box every time the door creaks open a little; rather than saying "I am" instead work at "I feel as though" (address the behaviors &/or feelings) or "I think others see me as" (address the image you project).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I'm going to not care about her, take my heart back, see other people. ... I need to be aware
To concentrate on not-caring about someone is still allowing them to control your life. The only difference is that instead of you trying to "sail alongside" her, you get obsessed with tacking away from her.

The only way to truly break free from control by another is to... well, break free from that control.

I imagine that many people could learn to steer their own course without being pulled OR pushed by the whims of a spouse or house-mate. However, this takes practice & experience. I've had to do it a few times in my life, & it took a couple of rocky episodes with my first girlfriend to gain some ability, but I was eventually able to stand firm when I knew I was right.

Until those skills are developed, severing the control means ending (or at least radically redefining) the relationship.

You need to prepare to leave, or you're not going to take yourself (your needs, your feelings) seriously, & she's not likely to either, so all that not-caring would be wasted anyway. No big displays, no threats to leave.
________________

I reached such a point with my second longterm relationship.

The upshot is that one day I knew I couldn't take it anymore, & I was doing all the work to get little benefit (seemingly less daily).

I calmly said, "You should move in with JR" -- her other boyfriend, barely employed & living free in his buddy's spare bedroom -- "because you're over there so much that you're about to be expelled AND lose your job. You're asleep when I leave in the morning & asleep when I get home at night. I even have to go to the grocery for us. If you don't want me to be happy with you, I can be happier without you. I love you, & I want to stay involved with you, but living together is not working at all."

She was shocked (not what I intended, & I actually felt bad about that but trusted myself enough to stick with it) & cried a little, then we sat down & reneogitaed a whole lot of stuff.

We were together 11 more years, & became a sort of "power dyad" in our community.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2017, 11:13 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
When she tells me details I blow it up into "a monster" and she further withdraws. For example I was expressing how upset I am about how this new guy was basically living in my apartment while I was gone. She said "see this is why I don't tell you things. It does you no good and you just freak out".
How about she just not move people in to your flat without your consent? Not do the annoying behavior in the first place?

This is what I was saying before... you have a grievance with her behavior. And instead of owning it like "You are right. I should not let other people use your things without your knowing" she flips it around on you like you are a "monster" for having this grievance. While overlooking her own provoking behavior.

Quote:
Then I get further insecure and upset, feeling left out and emotionally abandoned that instead of showing me empathy, she uses logic and reason to prove why she needs to withhold information. It's a cycle that is bringing me to severe anguish. Last night I was in physical pain from this situation.
She plays head games. It causes you pain.

Walk away.

Quote:
She is insecure and is not able to handle her partner being upset with her. She probably has guilt issues with sex. This is why she can't handle me being upset or why she isn't sexualy intimate with me. I was placed me in the "companion" box which is not kinky enough for her. I'm a kind and emotional lover, so this outcome makes sense.
No. The outcome of her making excuses does not make sense. You did not cause this insecurity in her. You cannot cure it FOR her, she has to do the work herself. You certainly do not deserve "flipperoo" and drama when you hold her accountable for her behavior.

Quote:
My plan is to just work on myself despite my expectations of her. I'm going to not care about her, take my heart back, see other people.
Does that mean you are breaking up with her and moving on? If so, good for you. Be done with this.

Hopefully you feel calmer and more secure when you are not waiting for some NEW drama thing of hers to happen. Date people who treat you nicely. Not people who play head games with you and cause you pain.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-16-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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