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  #21  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:15 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Op when you have 7 different posters giving you the same or similar feedback when are you going to listen?
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Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 50/50 split of time between my two husbands.
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:17 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
They would think I am cheating myself.
Do you think you are cheating yourself by staying with him when he continually does not set and enforce boundaries with her wonky behavior?

Quote:
I feel like if she doesn't respect me, he shouldn't be tolerant of that.
He IS tolerant of that. So... what do you do about his behavior? I would concentrate there. And leave her crazy for him to deal with. Because you can only deal with things one at a time. And rather than work from the outside back inward? You could start with you and go outwards from there:
  1. Define. These are the things you can and cannot put up with.
  2. Articulate. Make him aware of your boundaries.
  3. Enforce. He cross the line? You follow through with the consequence that YOU can do for yourself to get you out of the line of fire.

Quote:
I was doing just fine until I learned about how uncomfortable she is with me.
Who told you this stuff that disturbs your peace? The BF.

You can tell him to stop telling you his drama on that other side of the V. You could exercise firmer personal boundaries for yourself.
  • You can ask him to stop oversharing information about how she feels or does not feel, thinks or does not think. That side of the V you do not participate in. So if he has problems on that side of the V, he can talk to a friend, a counselor, etc. But not to you.
  • What he tells you about that side of the V is limited to sex health hygiene things. And calendar things. If he goes into deep details he can expect you to say "No. I do not go deep into this. You can go deep with you friends or a counselor."
  • You can tell him to please stop telling HER the details about your dates or planned dates. And just say "I have a date. I am booked. I can see you on ___." to prevent another incident like the movies.
  • You can tell him "No, not willing" when he asks you to reach out to her. You do not participate in things on that side of the V. He can ask a friend or counselor to do that instead.

If he does not like her acting out at him? That's HIS problem to deal with. You are not his "clean up" person. He picks to date a wonky one, he can figure out HOW to deal with the wonky on his own, or break up with the wonky.

Quote:
She's been doing this sort of thing without letting up for quite a while. He sat her down, told her how he wants to refer to me in public and to friends and coworkers, explained what his intentions are with me, and she's been upset about it. And more than anything, *he* has said that she does not respect me.
How do you know all this? He's oversharing details of what happens on that side of the V.

He's kvetching IN then. Why's he sharing his problems with her on that side of the V with YOU? How is he helping the two of you "steer clear" of each other and maintain truce when he's the one sloshing all over you with data about her?

Unless he gets off on that -- being vied over by two people. Which explains why he continues to overshare. He likes creating the drama. Have you considered that angle?

Quote:
I'm not sure if he's letting me think it's her because he doesn't want to own any mistakes. He did tell me that he feels like he has been the one not guiding her expectations very well.
(Sloshing details on to you) is not (guiding her.)

He could stop sloshing and start guiding then. If he needs help, he can seek it OUTSIDE the system -- a friend, a counselor, etc. Not the people WITHIN the system.

Quote:
But I don't feel like I'm meddling in her business. The fact that her actions are spilling over into my relationship with him, that affects me. And I should be conscious of that, no?
Yes. You could be concerned. Who is doing the spilling over on to you? HIM. He has weak boundaries OR he gets off on the drama.

I'm not saying her behavior is stellar. It is not. But you could stop focusing on her acting out, and focus on him spilling. The one bringing it to your door is HIM. How would she know what movie to go to if he hadn't told her in the first place?

Quote:
Have you had an experience where you've had to allow time to let changes set in, and how did you decide on what a reasonable time frame was?
Yes, I've had those experiences. That's why I set a boundary for myself of 3 strikes.

Some people go by time. I go by strikes. Sometimes strikes AND time. Like 3 strikes or 1 year. Whichever is first. I'm not going to spend 5-10 years in limbo here. That's too much.

To me? If he were my BF he'd be past his third strike. From your other posts and this one?
Strike 1: we're about to have sex, and he checks his okc. Not being present.

Strike 2: We are on a date, and he gets sucked up into his phone talking to his other gf rather than being present

Strike 3: He keeps telling me details about her, when I feel best NOT hearing about her. He's not respecting my boundary on information management. Only calendar and sex health info basics. Detail? No
Again, I'm not saying her behavior is stellar. It is not.

But I would focus on his behavior since she's not your amour. She's your metamour. If he's not holding up his end of the stick? He just isn't. And focussing attention on how bad she is doing holding up her sticks doesn't change it.

He's still not holding up his.

I suggest you pick a number. It doesn't matter if I pick 3 strikes and you pick 10. Just pick something. It's not going to be 100 strikes, right?

Then set and enforce firmer boundaries so you get back to this:

Quote:
I was doing just fine until I learned about how uncomfortable she is with me.
Who did you learn this from? HIM. He is oversharing information.

You tell him you will not put up with X behaviors. And if they keep happening you will leave. Then you step back and let him own his behaviors.

If he continues to do the same old song, different day? Makes it easy for you. You just count strikes. Then when it goes over your number for your limit of tolerance? The situation has become intolerable.

You follow through with the consequence -- you leave.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-25-2015 at 05:21 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:18 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
How does she meddle, exactly?
Schedules. It's 20 questions with her. It isn't just accepting what time he says they'll meet, it's a barrage of questions about why it isn't sooner or if I'm influencing the time they meet. All I ever ask of him is to let me know when he's occupied so I'm not bothering him, and that we make sure we're on the same page (that we aren't going to the same places, for instance).

Well, this, really. What he chooses to call me. That I spend the night however many times a week. That he wants to bring me to things where she brings her husband (there was a work function he wanted to bring me to and he was met with resistance when he said he wanted to bring me). She doesn't make those decisions for him, but she questions it like crazy.

She made it her business that I met his father. She met his father too, but whoa! Apparently I wasn't allowed to do that. She was very upset with him over this.

She also feels the need to tell us what protection we need to be using yet doesn't adhere to it herself.
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Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:22 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
Op when you have 7 different posters giving you the same or similar feedback when are you going to listen?
Well I have 7 different people talking to me so I have only two hands to type
__________________

Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:30 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Do YOU think you are cheating yourself by staying with him when he doesn't set and enforce boundaries with her wonky behavior?

That whole movie theater thing... he lets her know he's taking you to the movies on a date. And she buys tickets to same showing and gets pissy he won't sit with her? Why is he even telling her stuff about you and him in detail when it enables her to do such a thing?

She behaved poorly. But who gave there the inside scoop so she could show up and fusspot? HIM.
She didn't show up at the same one, sorry... she bought tickets to the same movie (not the exact same time) even though she knew he was going with me.

But yes, legit point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
He IS tolerant of that. So... what do you do about his behavior? I would concentrate there. And leave her crazy to him to deal with. Because you can only deal with things one at a time. And rather than work from the outside back inward? You could start with you and go outwards from there:
  1. Define. These are the things you can and cannot put up with.
  2. Articulate. Make him aware of your boundaries.
  3. Enforce. He cross the line? You follow through with the consequence that YOU can do for yourself to get you out of the line of fire.



Who told you this stuff that disturbs your peace? Sounds like the BF. You can tell him to stop telling you his drama on that other side of the V.
You could exercise firmer personal boundaries for yourself.
[LIST][*]You can ask him to stop oversharing information about how she feels or does not feel, thinks or does not think. That side of the V you do not participate in. So if he has problems on that side of the V, he can talk to a friend, a counselor, etc. But not to you.
[*]What he tells you about that side of the V is limited to sex health hygiene things. And calendar things. If he goes into deep details he can expect you to say "No. I do not go deep into this. You can go deep with you friends or a counselor."
[*]You can tell him to please stop telling her details about your dates or planned dates. And just say "I have a date. I am booked" to prevent another incident like the movies.
Thank you. Agreed. I like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
You can tell him "No, not willing" when he asks you to reach out to her. You do not participate in things on that side of the V. He can ask a friend or counselor to do that instead.
Absolutely. I've asked that. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
For what? So she stops acting out at him? That's HIS problem to deal with. You are not his "clean up" woman. He picks to date a wonky one, he can deal with the wonky.



Thank you Galagirl. I've just started the conversation now with him about this (we're in other cities at the moment and otherwise I would've started it in person).
__________________

Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.

Last edited by hislittlekitten; 05-25-2015 at 03:43 PM. Reason: excessive quoting
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:32 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
How does she meddle, exactly?


Uh-oh, why does he do that? This is an example of the pot-stirring he engages in.


Uh-oh again. Why does he inform her when you've weighed in on a decision he made? More pot-stirring.

He shouldn't be over-sharing with both of you and he shouldn't be asking you to reach out to her. Does he do this on a regular basis?

How long have you and Kit been seeing each other now?
8 months. I don't think he informs her when I've been a part of making a decision, but I think she's afraid that the decision he makes weighs heavily to me.
__________________

Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:42 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
Schedules. It's 20 questions with her. It isn't just accepting what time he says they'll meet, it's a barrage of questions about why it isn't sooner or if I'm influencing the time they meet.
Does this happen in a scheduling meeting among all three of you? From what I've read here, I doubt it. So, now, how do you know Letty asks him a gazillion questions? Kit tells you. Right?

Hon, the issue for you is not that she gives him shit about how he wants to schedule his time - it's that he relays to you all the shit she gives him. She is his headache, not yours! You do not exist to make his headache go away. When he starts to tell you about his conversations with her, hold up your hand and say, "I don't want to hear it." If he persists, hold up your hand again and tell him, "This is my time to spend with you, and I'm not interested in wasting it thinking about conversations that are none of my business."

Quote:
Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
What he chooses to call me. That I spend the night however many times a week. That he wants to bring me to things where she brings her husband (there was a work function he wanted to bring me to and he was met with resistance when he said he wanted to bring me). She doesn't make those decisions for him, but she questions it like crazy.

She made it her business that I met his father. She met his father too, but whoa! Apparently I wasn't allowed to do that. She was very upset with him over this.
Again, all these things that bothered her - he told you about, correct? You did not get it directly "from the horse's mouth," correct? I think, by now, you know what I am going to say: he should not be sharing this stuff with you. He should be focused on being with you when he's with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
She also feels the need to tell us what protection we need to be using . . .
Here, you said "tell us" - does that mean she spoke to you about it? Broken record alert - if this is something she only said to him in private, he shouldn't be sharing it with you.

I gotta wonder... why does he tell both of you about all the minutiae he shares with each of you? Could be he gets off (though, perhaps, subconsciously) on having two women fighting over him. Or it could be just that he's never considered the consequences of his actions, thinking poly means everything is wide open and fully shared, and not realizing nor understanding that each person in a relationship deserves privacy about what goes on between them without being reported back to another lover/partner - I suspect he has never really researched how to manage multiple relationships in an ethical, considerate manner.

Of course, she sounds like a real doozy, but he has been fucking up royally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
. . . yet doesn't adhere to it herself.
Well, this IS something that he needs to share. Is he fucking her bareback? Even though he's had a history of maintaining quite an active sex life with several others up until very recently? If so, then he and Letty are both being very, very stupid. And you need to make sure you always use condoms with him.

So, yeah, anyway, the gist of all these responses seems to be that he is contributing to the angst you are going through, in a major way, by not being a good and careful hinge.

I suggest you show him this thread.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-25-2015 at 03:47 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:46 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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We were cross posting. I'm sorry if the quotes are wonky now. I am glad there was something useful for you there though. Thank you for clarifying on the movie thing. But glad you see the point I was trying to get to.

When you talk to him, I hope you articulate your "info management" boundaries with him better:
  • Please tell me calendar things, sex health hygiene things. These are the things I want to know that affect me.
  • Please do not tell me deep detail things -- how she thinks, feels, acts out at you, whatever. I am not the guy. Those things you sort out with her directly. Or things you tell another friend or a counselor so you get outside help/advice on HOW to deal with her directly.

Because YOU don't need to be sucked up in THEIR drama via HIS oversharing.

Right now he's simply disturbing your mental peace by oversharing his problems with her. I get he wants to talk it out with someone, but he could do it with someone OUTSIDE the system. He could pick an appropriate person. You are not it.

Dumping it all on you? That's not respecting your boundary or your need for mental peace. You seem to want that respected.

So state the boundaries crystal clear. Ask if you can expect him to live up to them.
  • If he says no? Thank him for being honest. Then break up. You cannot be with someone who will not respect your boundaries.
  • If he says yes... Then hold him accountable and enforce. He crosses the line? Note it is not respectful and count strikes. Too many strikes racked up? You dump him.

Keep this WAY simpler on yourself.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-25-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:55 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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I am going to be concise since everyone message is going over your head or you just don't want to hear it.

KIT IS THE PROBLEM...
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Married in the eyes of the government to Butch since 2001...
Murf my monogamous second husband has been with me since May of 2012.
In a V relationship with an average 50/50 split of time between my two husbands.
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:26 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Does this happen in a scheduling meeting among all three of you? From what I've read here, I doubt it. So, now, how do you know Letty asks him a gazillion questions? Kit tells you. Right?
No, not for all three of us. Mostly when she wants to see him. But yes, you're right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
He should be focused on being with you when he's with you.
sigh, absolutely!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I gotta wonder... why does he tell both of you about all the minutiae he shares with each of you? Could be he gets off (though, perhaps, subconsciously) on having two women fighting over him. Or it could be just that he's never considered the consequences of his actions, thinking poly means everything is wide open and fully shared, and that kind of thing - I suspect he has never really researched how to manage multiple relationships in an ethical, considerate manner.
I just confronted him about this and I really do believe it's the latter. He said he hasn't shared my concerns about this with her; that while she's aware that he wants us to get along, that he hasn't been sharing these details with her... but he has shared the details of her being upset with me.

I suggested we re-evaluate what we're sharing and that we go back to being much more careful about disclosure. He agreed. I told him it is affecting me and he apologized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Of course, she sounds like a real doozy, but he has been fucking up royally.
Yep, I'd agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Well, this IS something that he needs to share. Is he fucking her bareback? Even though he's had a history of maintaining quite an active sex life with several others up until very recently? Then he and Letty are both being very, very stupid. And you need to make sure you always use condoms with him.
These things are all OK right now. It was more the audacity to be told what WE should be doing, when she wasn't planning on doing the same (including her husband).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
So, yeah, anyway, the gist of all these responses seems to be that he is contributing to the angst you are going through, in a major way, by not being a good and careful hinge.

I suggest you show him this thread.
"A good and careful hinge" is what I really appreciate this comment and I think I'm going to emphasize this on an ongoing basis. We just talked about everything and he seems absolutely fine with finding another outlet for these problems, but I will make sure to ask him to think about this and maybe look for some resources himself.

I think he mistakenly thought that I do need to know that she doesn't respect me. He's been telling me how much he respects me and that it bothers him that we're not so fond of each other, but now I think he knows that it hurts more to be hearing these details.

As for me... this has helped me realize that I myself believed in a certain degree of openness and communication. I would like her to respect me but yeah. That is her problem. Time to find zero fucks to give.

So I have my things to work on (not concerning myself with her) and he has his things to work on (not disclosing her problems with me).

That was a much easier conversation to have this time and I'm really glad I asked you all. Thanks for your responses!
__________________

Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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