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  #11  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:32 PM
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graviton graviton is offline
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Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
I wrote that whole post to try to avoid replies like this but apparently it's my fault. I guess that's what I get for writing it so late at night?

See, I feel like she's the one who refuses to acknowledge me. She refuses to hear the word "girlfriend."

He brought it up with her in the interest of being transparent with her. Because they have coworkers, for one thing, and didn't want her caught off guard by how he has chosen to refer to me. And honestly? It doesn't matter to me as much as you might think it does. It didn't matter before when I didn't feel like she needed to know the depth of our relationship. But because there's now that aspect - that he's referring to me in a way she didn't expect him to - *I* am seeing the results of her discomfort with it.

Would this have been easier for you to understand had I said, my metamour refuses to acknowledge what our shared lover decides to call me?
The problem is hers then. You making sure she knows who you are and what your place is by no means is going to make her accept it. Its not your place to be sure she can handle you being referred to as the "girlfriend". Its not even your boyfriends place. He can and should refer to you however he wants and leave it to her to deal with it.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:37 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
See, I feel like she's the one who refuses to acknowledge me. She refuses to hear the word "girlfriend."
Yeah, and so? Why do you care? She is nothing to you, and you don't even like her. Furthermore, you don't respect her, either.

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Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
. . . But because there's now that aspect - that he's referring to me in a way she didn't expect him to - *I* am seeing the results of her discomfort with it.
What, exactly, are those results? Did she walk over to you and slap you in the face? I am sure she did not. The only "result" is that Kit told you Letty doesn't like it - is that correct? Then, again, your problem lies not with her, but with him. Why does he tell you these things? He seems to like stirring up the pot between you two.

Don't you have better, more important, more pressing things to do with your life than worry about what Letty thinks of you and your relationship?
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-25-2015 at 02:40 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:38 PM
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graviton graviton is offline
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Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
Well, thanks for psychoanalyzing me. I purposely tried to write this post to avoid this. I'm not remotely trying to compete. The way I see it, when I entered this relationship, I had asked only a few things of my partner and that I not be 'lesser' than anything; that I am not a secondary. He does not attach those labels, and like I wrote, he would not attach that label with her - while others would probably describe her as a secondary, he's opposed to using that label.

(Apparently the way I wrote that didn't read the way I wanted you all too understand it. Instead of viewing it as "he doesn't attach hierarchical labels," you're all jumping on me for painting you the situational hierarchy.)

I'm sorry but I disagree with your sentiment that I struggle with how I'm valued against her. I don't give a shit about how she's valued against me. I've been fine with who she is to him and increasingly, always happier to what he is to me. What it feels like to be on this side of things... when my relationship is able to grow on the outside, yet hers can't because she's a married poly and does not wish to be public about it (plus they can't due to work), she simply can't be public about him. He wishes to be public about me and she acts out when he does.

That's how I see it. That he wants to be public about me and she doesn't like it. She never thought of me as any more than FWB is what he told me, and now she's having to face it.

So yeah. I think it's SHE who has the problem with what we are to him. I welcome her presence in his life. I just have a problem with this disrespect, and I feel like if I were poly in this too that you all wouldn't be telling me these things.
And yet again this is between them. Its on him how much he wants to be public about you. She's not stopping him, he's catering to her drama. Its certainly not your place to make it happen. YOU can be public about him. HE can be public about you. If either one of you encounters resistance between each other about your publicity its between YOU two.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:40 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I am sorry you struggle. I see that you want to be acknowledged as having an important place in his life... By her and by him.

I could be wrong in my impressions, but I'll try to give you my POV from what I read.



I know the parents meant it about pre-marital sex/marriage... but did it bug you because it hit too close to home another way?

That you cannot sell the idea that others could respect you when you yourself are not doing self-respecting behavior? When you choose to continue to stay in a situation that you find disrespectful? That's "giving it away free."
I could never be able to tell them that this is the choice I made. They would never understand.

On a good night I have no problem with her being with him. But because I feel like she doesn't respect me, the combination of not being respected plus the fact that my parents wouldn't understand that this part of my way to love him - that he carries on his relationship with this woman - they wouldn't get it. They would think I am cheating myself.



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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Is that how she shows respect for you? By steering clear? Is that fair enough to you?

I gather from your other posts that one behavior you would like is for her not to text him while he is on a date with you unless it is an emergency. And his behavior you want is for him to text back "on date, cannot talk right now" an then be present again on the date. Not get all sucked up into his phone.

In that sense maybe she is NOT "steering clear" consistently? And that is what bugs you?

And he's not nipping it in the bud. So that bugs you too?

Like she won't exercise self control, and he won't set and enforce personal boundaries?
That's part of it. There are other things that happen. My partner doesn't 100% elaborate on it all the time, but I know she gives him trouble.

She does a lot of passive-aggressive things. She leaves notes on things, knowing I'll see them. She argues with him - about what exactly, I don't know, but it has to do with me. She questions why he might change a date time with her. A little while back, after he told her about our specific plans to see a movie, she went and bought the same tickets to the same movie and got upset with him when he wouldn't go with her because he was going with me and she already knew it.

She's been doing this sort of thing without letting up for quite a while. He sat her down, told her how he wants to refer to me in public and to friends and coworkers, explained what his intentions are with me, and she's been upset about it. And more than anything, *he* has said that she does not respect me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
That sounds like you are bummed out with your BF continuing to date her even though she does not respect you. Are you? And this is more about him that's her?

Is it easier for you to pin it on her like this...



Than write it out like this



and think about his role in it and ask yourself why you are not being hardass with him? Or with yourself?

That could be one blind spot to look out for. Wanting it to be all her. When the one who is picking her out to be with is him. And the one picking to be with him is you.

If he is chronically letting you down in various ways, you may have to reevaluate "I continue to date him" like a hardass in order to maintain your self-respect.
Thank you for this. I think this was valuable.

Is this more about him than it is her? Yes and no. I feel like if she doesn't respect me, he shouldn't be tolerant of that. He knows that I respect her. In fact, it was part of how we grew into our relationship. I took great pains to maintain respect for her. She exercised a lot of couples privilege in the beginning, and now that he has chosen to make me a pretty large part of his life, she can't do that anymore. Whose fault is that really? Is he doing enough to mitigate? I'm not entirely sure.

I mean, I do tend to think it's her a lot of the time. And I'm not sure if he's letting me think it's her because he doesn't want to own any mistakes. He did tell me that he feels like he has been the one not guiding her expectations very well. But in my mind, she shouldn't have made those expectations. She made the expectation that I was just a FWB. So now that the truth is out, she is upset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I think these are the things you can do to make it better for yourself:
  • Articulate your standards to yourself and what behaviors hold that standard up.
  • Ask yourself/her/him directly if each is willing to do those behaviors.
  • Give it a reasonable time frame for changes to take place in.
  • If it doesn't happen at the end of the time? Walk away. Be hardass with yourself about it too -- even if part of you is sad to leave? You LEAVE.

If your poly people or arrangements are just not up to snuff where you are happy to be in it? Don't be in it.

You cannot change other people's behavior. You CAN change your "staying-ness." Others do not have to respect you, but you can exercise self-respect and remove yourself from those kinds of people.

My 2 cents,
Galagirl
Thank you for being constructive. I appreciate it.

Have you had an experience where you've had to allow time to let changes set in, and how did you decide on what a reasonable time frame was?
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Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.

Last edited by hislittlekitten; 05-25-2015 at 02:46 PM. Reason: forgot to finish a few things
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:50 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
My thoughts on this are you are too hung up on being superior to his other girlfriend. Your posts about her are belittling and condescending in tone. It makes you sound like a bitter and nasty person.

What can you do to make this better? Stop renting head space to her. Mind your own business and focus on yours. Another one would be leave the relationship since you're so miserable.

Stop suggesting anything to him about his relationships that have nothing to do you. Again mind your own business.
I'm trying NOT to sound like a bitter person. I regard her as my equal, no matter what my partner calls me. The two things that make us unequal, in my opinion, is that 1) I'm not married, therefore my flexibility for him is greater and this is part of why he chooses to refer to me as his girlfriend, and 2) she's been a friend to him for many years and I have not.

I wanted to be a little nastier to you in my reply (I was starting to get frustrated with how everyone sees this beacuse I feel like I'm not communicating the situation well), but... I mean.. I see what you're saying.

The thing is, I feel like SHE is meddling in what isn't her business. Like I said, it's starting to make me crack. I was doing just fine until I learned about how uncomfortable she is with me.

So yeah, maybe she did take my head space. And I shouldn't let that happen, But I don't feel like I'm meddling in her business. The fact that her actions are spilling over into my relationship with him, that affects me. And I should be conscious of that, no?
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Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:54 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Originally Posted by Dagferi View Post
She doesn't have to give you any recognition at all.

She doesn't need to validate your place in his life. That is your boyfriend's place.

Why do you give a hoot what she thinks of you? What bills of yours will she be paying this month.

Your boyfriend must get off on drama since he seems like he likes working you two against each other.

Can't you see the true problem here?
How do I articulate this to him?

Do I ask him not to share when she's being dramatic over me?

I guess that's a pretty valid question.. why I care what she thinks of me. I didn't really care (again) until lately. I don't really care until I get this request from my boyfriend, "can you reach out to her?"

I kinda thought it was a problem that he asked in the first place. Other, more diplomatic people, might think I should. Others who highlight what you've said, maybe not.

So if that is the problem, what would you do?

Thank you for your reply.
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Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:01 PM
hislittlekitten hislittlekitten is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Yeah, and so? Why do you care? She is nothing to you, and you don't even like her. Furthermore, you don't respect her, either.


What, exactly, are those results? Did she walk over to you and slap you in the face? I am sure she did not. The only "result" is that Kit told you Letty doesn't like it - is that correct? Then, again, your problem lies not with her, but with him. Why does he tell you these things? He seems to like stirring up the pot between you two.

Don't you have better, more important, more pressing things to do with your life than worry about what Letty thinks of you and your relationship?
You know what? I do respect her. It takes GUTS to open up your marriage. She's done just that. She's opened up her marriage.

He may not call her his girlfriend, but I do respect that she deserves a place in his life because he wants a place for her. And I feel like that's respectful of him, too, to make room for that.

Maybe he does like stirring it up. I don't know. I know he gets barraged with questions from her whenever it's possible that I'm involved with a decision. I don't think I would like that, would you? I hate the tension it creates. I know he avoids her when she does that. I hate seeing him uncomfortable like that.

I do have more to do than worry about it. But I do feel like I have to be considerate of her.

And I do kind of feel like I've been put in this place and I think it's time for me to extract myself from that place. I don't think it means ending it or anything, not at all, but I think it means telling him where that place is.
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Monogamous (in relationships) female.
Open to non-monogamy, learning about poly now.

I'm in a "zig-zag"/"Vee":
In a primary relationship with Kit.
Kit has another partner, Letty, who is married to Trent.
Trent has a partner, Annie.
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:09 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
The thing is, I feel like SHE is meddling in what isn't her business.
How does she meddle, exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
I don't really care until I get this request from my boyfriend, "can you reach out to her?"
Uh-oh, why does he do that? This is an example of the pot-stirring he engages in.

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Originally Posted by hislittlekitten View Post
Maybe he does like stirring it up. I don't know. I know he gets barraged with questions from her whenever it's possible that I'm involved with a decision.
Uh-oh again. Why does he inform her when you've weighed in on a decision he made? More pot-stirring.

He shouldn't be over-sharing with both of you and he shouldn't be asking you to reach out to her. Does he do this on a regular basis?

How long have you and Kit been seeing each other now?
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia

Click here for a Solo Poly view on hierarchical relationships
Click here to find out why the Polyamorous Misanthrope is feeling disgusted.
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:09 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Easy you say I wish not to hear xyz information regarding Letty.

Explain that you would like to keep your relationship separate from hers and wish there to be no bleed over. You wish to have no contact with her. That you can play nice if you find yourselves in the same place and the same time but other than that you want nothing to do with her.

Your boyfriend is the problem he is a sloppy hinge.

I do not bring drama from one relationship to another. I do not request my guys "reach out" to each other. I keep the relationships separate but equal. I do not fill in one husband about what the other is doing, thinking, or etc.

Honestly he is pitting you against her.
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  #20  
Old 05-25-2015, 03:11 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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There's a wonderful quote that you might find helpful. And I'm probably misquoting, and can't remember who said it originally, but...

"Other people's opinions of me are none of my business."

Read that again.

What Letty thinks of you is HER problem. Not yours. Not even Kit's, though it's a problem for him if she's spewing to him about it.

The issue, as best I can tell, is that Kit's then spewing to YOU about what she says to him.

If that's causing you to lose sleep and feel like shit, HE needs to shut up about what she's saying. She isn't the one causing problems for you. He is. Unless she's actually calling you up or emailing you or whatever and saying all this stuff to you, which it doesn't sound like she is, the only way you know what she allegedly says and thinks is through him.

Why is he telling you this? Does he *want* you to feel like shit? Does he want to start a war between you and Letty? Is he getting some "ooh look at me go" satisfaction out of having two women go at each other over him?

I'm not saying that to insult him, by the way. I don't know him, so there's nothing for me to insult.

But if he's the one passing along Letty's alleged disrespect and stuff to you, I would seriously question his motives.

You don't need to know what she says. Or what she thinks. Her opinion of you is none of your business, and Kit needs to recognize that.

You and she don't have to speak to each other or interact in any way, not even through Kit. Hubby and S2 don't have any communication with each other, and I'm careful about what I say to one about the other. Careful to the point of having asked each of them to give me specifics about what they're comfortable hearing, and to the point of checking each time I bring something up. (e.g. "Can I tell you about something Hubby said to me" or "I'd like to tell you about this thing S2 and I did, is that okay")...and I try to only bring up the positive things that make me so happy I want to share.

Disengage from all of that. Tell Kit you don't want to know what she says to him about you. Tell him you aren't comfortable being in contact with her and would prefer that he be the hinge without trying to bring the two of you together.

Tell him what you need from him, because I'm pretty sure he isn't a mind reader. But whatever it is, make it clear to him that knowing these things Letty supposedly says is making you miserable. If he cares about you, he should want you to be happy.

And if she's starting shit with him *because* of you... guess what? That STILL isn't any of your business. That's HIS problem to deal with. Not yours.
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