Hello from (Upstate) NY

PolyMC

New member
Hi All!
Brand new to the forum today but SOOOO glad to know that I am not alone in what I was surprised to recently discover about myself, literally within the last 4 months.

I've been happily married to my DH (I'll call him "A") for 9 1/2 years (I'm heading for the big 5-0) and love him dearly and would do anything in the world to avoid hurting him. I found something really special with him and don't want to give that up for anything--it's a second marriage for us both.

However, about three years ago I met a guy (who I'll call "M"), via email, due to a mutual hobby. I hadn't really expected it to go beyond 2, maybe three email exhanges in total. But the emails have kept up, nearly every day steady, usually several times a day, ever since. It wasn't long before I found myself trying to deny the feelings I was feeling -- in fact, "A" observed even before I did that I was starting to fall. And fall I have, although unfortunately for me it's quite one-sided, perhaps because I am married. But this is still a very deep emotional relationship/friendship and we have met in person a few times. If "M" is aware, it's never been explicitly discussed, mainly because I know I'll probably be in for a disappointment. (I know, denial much?)

Then a couple of months ago, I reconnected with my first love from over 20 years ago (who I'll call "T") -- there were a lot of unresolved questions I had that I felt needed answers as we just sort of drifted apart and into other relationships. Soon after our reconnection we discovered that we still had strong feelings for each other and it wasn't long before the word "love" was being used nearly as frequently as it was back then.

So now I find myself in a very weird (for me) position...being potentially in love with three guys at the same time, with only two of them returning the feeling. To be fair to "A" I have told him everything and he is fully aware of how I feel about both "M" and "T", who at best would be LDRs that I would only see a couple of times a year each due to the distances they each live from me. "A" is still reeling a bit from hearing my "Honey, I think I'm a poly" announcement -- he always was and always will be a mono and has no desire to change. "T" is also a poly -- in fact it was our getting together that sort of gelled that for both of us. I don't know for sure about "M", but I suspect mono.

"A" and I have sat down on several occasions to come to an agreement on "ground rules" regarding the other "relationships", mostly governing what could happen (or more accurately what *SHOULDN'T* happen) when I am on a visit with either "M" or "T". At the moment he is mostly "don't ask, don't tell" with respect to the details of the other relationships, but still wants the reassurance that the agreement lines haven't been crossed. I'm more than happy to oblige there. He is tolerant of me having some, but not total leeway and I have accepted the rules we've agreed to. For him having been hit with this out of the blue, I am quite surprised that he has been this tolerant (could he still be "in shock"?)

I have also, perhaps to my detriment, (and maybe as my way to prove to him that he will always be my first and foremost relationship) promised him that if he ever gets to a point where he can't handle this arrangement anymore, I will not pursue the poly lifestyle. He told me that part of the reason he is being tolerant is that he doesn't want me to resent him for giving up part of who I am, even though it was a recent discovery.

Whew, this is the first time I've ever verbalized my situation and in reading it over, even *I* can see how complicated it is. Of course, this could be just because it's all so new, but dang, for being so new, I'm in deep! For those of you who may have been in a similar situation, can this ever work out so that no one gets hurt? Sometimes it just seems like an impossibility, but I haven't given up hope.

"G" -- married to "A", but love "M" & "T" as well
 
Welcome to the forum. I hope you find it useful. There is a wealth of information--some good and some bad.

My only concern is your husband's tolerance. Tolerance can sometimes wear off when reality sets in and shock leaves. He is tolerating your need/want for others, but he does not accept that part of you. Acceptance is important to me and can lead to incompatibility and very different opinions down the line.

I will say this...it is easy to make agreements and think one can handle the reality vs. theory. Often that is not the case. Can poly/mono marriages work? Yes, but it takes understanding from the poly person that the mono person has sacrificed their want/need for monogamy and has to be okay with a host of things. I learned these lessons the hard way, so I would advise you to proceed with caution and not rush anything. I would encourage your husband to lurk or join and read the various threads.

Just take some time and ease in to this because it is a change from what you both have been used to for years. People tend to crack like eggs when they move too fast and then everyone suffers. Poly can be rewarding for some.

Feel free to start a blog here: Life Stories and Blog, or continue to explore the threads. Post questions if you have them. There are quite a few seasoned polys on here, and some of them offer really good advice.

Good luck and enjoy!

Ry
 
Hello G,
Welcome to our forum.

I think you'll have to check up on A often to make sure he is still feeling "okay" (if not great) about these poly relationships. I don't know that any polyamorous (or monogamous, for that matter) relationship can ever work out so that no one gets hurt. Wouldn't it be nice if such could be the way it is. Happily ever after and all that. The truth is, people get hurt feelings, have arguments, and have to renegotiate the situation so that everyone can live with it.

Of course, that's not at all the same thing as saying that it can't work at all. Sure it *can* work, in some cases, with sufficient honesty, communication, patience, and diplomacy. I'm just saying almost every worthwhile relationship involves some sacrifices, regardless of whether it's a poly relationship.

Make sure you have M's wholehearted consent before pursuing anything too heavy with him. Of course, before he can consent, he'll have to know what he's consenting to, so at some point you'll have to let him know what's going on, with respect to both your feelings and A's.

I guess I'm curious about what ground rules you and A negotiated, but it's up to you how much you want to share of that kind of detail. As long as it works for all involved parties, then all is well.

Take advantage of the resources Polyamory.com has to offer, and do visit our blogs board. You might also find our Golden Nuggets board to be helpful.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thank You For the Welcome!

It's so nice to finally be in a place where I can talk about this openly and not feel so "closeted" as I do in the real world.

"A" and I have had many discussions since I became aware of my growing romantic feelings for two other men -- often he feels a little overwhelmed and past his comfort zone at the very idea. At this point in time I have not had any physical contact with either "M" (outside of several wonderfully long and cuddly hugs--I still don't think he is aware how deep my feelings run, and even if he did I doubt that he reciprocates the romantic feelings) or "T" (whom I haven't seen in person since we were dating oh so many years ago--our "relationship" at this point is online/phone) so the negotiations are very much in their infancy stage. I have already made several trips to visit "M" (which began the negotiations) and nothing has happened there to even warrant discussion. There are upcoming solo trips planned to visit both "M" and "T" (one at the end of the year and the other in the spring) which naturally makes "A" a bit nervous.

In answer to the question regarding our "ground rules", and please forgive me if this is too graphic for this forum, at this point "p-in-v" sex is prohibited -- anything else in my sexual repertoire is acceptable. In our discussions, we both agreed that as my husband and primary partner "A" should be exclusively entitled to the p.i.v. Initially he wanted to include other activities (basically, anything "below my belt") but we ended up agreeing to this proverbial "line in the sand". My feeling with potential partners is that there are so many ways to give and receive pleasure that this restriction shouldn't be a hindrance. Am I being naive?

I have maintained all along that "A"'s happiness is first and foremost on my priority list, which is the reason I made the promise that if he ever gets to a point where he just can't handle any of this, I will continue to live as a mono as I have for the past 10 years since we met. He is a keeper and I'd be devastated if anything happened that would cause me to lose him. "A" often remarks, somewhat in jest, that he is happiest when he can be in denial. Discussions and references to "M" and/or "T" are a little too real for him right now. (And remember, "A" noticed that I was falling for "M" even before I did.) My personal rule is that "A" and I will be on the same page before I allow myself to become physically involved with another man. And of course any potential partners will need to be on-board with the not-the-run-of-the-mill arrangement as well. I don't ever want there to be any secrets, which I feel would destroy any of these relationships, whether in their current form or taken to the next level.
 
I have maintained all along that "A"'s happiness is first and foremost on my priority list, which is the reason I made the promise that if he ever gets to a point where he just can't handle any of this, I will continue to live as a mono as I have for the past 10 years since we met.
Make sure you tell M, T, and any other potential partners early that they are disposable so that they can make an informed decision about becoming involved with you before their emotions are engaged. It's not fair to lure someone in with the promise of a relationship only to rip it out from under them on a whim, particularly if they've had time to become attached.
 
Point taken, although that brought me up a little short with calling them "disposable" because that's not how I see it nor how I would ever want it to be perceived. I will never enter into any relationship (nor take the existing ones with "M" and "T" to the next level) if I don't believe I can fully commit to it or feel that "A" is not on-board. I love them all enough to not want to hurt any of them. And "A" is not the type to agree to something and then "pull the plug" and do a 180 down the road. That's why we're having our discussions and agreements now, before any of the relationship dynamics change. But you've definitely given me something to think about...so that I can make a fully informed decision.
 
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When my (ex) h and I first tried poly, he made the same deal with me. If I ever became uncomfortable with him loving another woman, he'd put my feelings and needs first, and stop trying to be poly. Well, I was OK with him dating and falling head over heels in love with this other woman, H, for a while... I tried to give them space to date, to have sex, even though originally we were (stupidly) looking for a "unicorn" to share, and despite early indications she was interested in both of us, turned out she wasn't.

But after 4 months I just couldn't deal with their NRE anymore. It was so over the top, and after being with just him for 20 years, I had no idea how to handle him being all twitterpated over someone new. (Even though I feel I am more wired for poly than he is, and got crushes on friends constantly.)

So per our agreement, I vetoed the relationship. This backfired however, and they remained loving friends, even though the sex stopped. Eventually it bred bitterness and was a factor in our marriage dissolving.

(I'm doing much better since he and I broke up in 2008, don't worry. I was ready to move on too, for various reasons unrelated to poly.)

Anyway! Be forewarned that you really can't close the barn door once the horse is out.
 
Point taken, although that brought me up a little short with calling them "disposable" because that's not how I see it nor how I would ever want it to be perceived.
If you've made an agreement—without their input—that will see them cast aside without notice or a chance to argue their case what else would you call it?
I will never enter into any relationship (nor take the existing ones with "M" and "T" to the next level) if I don't believe I can fully commit to it or feel that "A" is not on-board. I love them all enough to not want to hurt any of them. And "A" is not the type to agree to something and then "pull the plug" and do a 180 down the road.
If he's not going to change his mind, why make promises about what you'll do when he does? I'm not saying you need to just tell him to suck it up and deal, but at least put a limit on how long the "if he ever can't handle it" veto phase will last once you start a new relationship.

A week? Sure.
A month? Yeah, maybe.
A year? Probably not.
10 years? Hell no.

"Ever" is too open-ended.
 
Okay so your husband is not the type to pull the plug, but is he the type that is going to suffer in silence, hate whatever is going on to the point of resentment setting in, and keep quiet because he wants you to be happy?

I can understand making agreements, but you are dismissing the wants/needs of the other two people. Have you taken what they want/need in to consideration? You have already stated that due to distance, they will be secondary or tertiary. Your husband is with you, so he is primary. That is understandable.

So no penetrative sex? Did your husband tell you how long? How do M and T feel about that? How would you and your DH handle it if M or T wanted to spend Christmas/NY with you? Are they allowed to visit your home since he prefers to be in denial, or is he only going along with you visiting them wherever they live to keep them out of sight and mind? If you do not mind me asking, what other boundaries have you all set?

I would not ask for a limit on said veto power. I would find out what his needs are and work from that angle. Find out why he feels like he needs that veto power. Maybe he feels threatened by these other people. Maybe he is wondering why you want/need more. Maybe he is feeling in adequate and like he has no control over anything. Maybe he realises that this is not what he signed up for. Maybe he is grieving for the way his marriage used to be and no longer will be again.

He just may not know how long it will be until he is comfortable. Some people will never be comfortable with the idea of being part of a poly marriage or being one of many. I stopped being comfortable with having a poly marriage, and I was the polyamorist. I ended my other relationship back in March and realised I am better suited to something different right now. Stuff happens and no part of life is predictable.

I definitely suggest you all keep talking. I would not say that you are naive. You are new to it and finding your way. Poly is a constant learning curve, and it is better to hash this out now before anyone gets in too deep.
 
More to Think About...

A lot more to think about for sure...

I like the idea of putting a time limit on the veto power...I hadn't thought of that angle, but it makes more sense than it being invoked when I'm past the "point of no return" in a relationship with someone(s) else. I'm really hoping that "A" will be accepting of this paradigm shift (he told me last night that he's getting there...slowly) long before it could ever become a serious issue--the more we talk openly about it the more he seems to relax a little, especially when I explained how this is very different from a "swinging" sort of thing. I have asked what his biggest fear is -- aside from this being a deviation from the traditional idea of marriage that he was brought up to believe in, he has expressed several times (starting with when I made previous visits to "M") that he fears receiving a phone call saying "Honey, I'm not coming home." I'm doing everything in my power to assure him that won't happen (at least not without some major bizarre worldly force at play that I can't anticipate). I also believe that our marriage is strong enough where we talk openly and work out issues rather than "suffer in silence". We've been doing that quite successfully on other issues unrelated to poly that arise on occasion--a lesson we each learned from our previous marriages.

As far as how the secondaries feel about the rules, I have discussed the sexual boundaries with "T" and he's agreed to it. "M" and I are still in the "friendship zone" (I don't think he knows about the extent of my feelings, and if he does, he's keeping me at arm's length--this may very well be a totally unrequited thing I have) so at the moment any rules regarding physical intimacy would not even be an issue in that relationship. How long could I keep that boundary with "T" in effect? At this point I say as long as I need to, but I am fully aware that I'm not superwoman and that could change down the road. It would definitely warrant further discussion with "A" before anything changes.

Visits are almost a simplistic non-issue by nature...I do the traveling (and next trip is after Christmas and into the first week of the new year) because I am currently the only one with a valid passport. I also travel alone because "A" does not wish to accompany me on my visits, and I fear that if he did, things might get more than a little awkward. Neither one of us sees the possibility, at least at this point in time, of his being "buddy buddy" with my other partners. Last night he asked if there was a possibility of my meeting someone local that I'll want to have over for dinner, spend the night, and all that (apparently another of his fears about me pursuing a poly relationship). He seemed to relax when I assured him that this isn't a casual dating type of thing at all -- any potential partners have almost a ridiculously high set of standards to meet. And the current ones bloomed out of a pre-existing relationship -- one from my distant dating past and the other that forged over the course of three years of constant email contact with the occasional phone call/visit. Casual is definitely not my deal and I'm not currently seeking any additional partners. I'm just trying to come to terms with the romantic feelings I have for the men already in my life. This is a new thing for me and even though I'm doing my best to become educated with all the nuances of being a poly, I still feel as if I'm somewhat bumbling my way through a minefield right now.

And I really do appreciate all of the input I've received so far -- you've given me not only a lot of helpful suggestions but other things I need to consider that I hadn't thought of. Many thanks!
 
Hello! I've read this thread with interest, since I am a new poly with a mono husband. My husband asked about being given a veto early on, but we talked it out and agreed it wouldn't be fair for any partner of mine to be disposable on what he thought. He isn't in my relationship - I am. Why should he have the ability to close my heart off? Emotions aren't like a light switch. He decided instead that he trusted me and my judgement. My advice would be to definitely address that issue. Also, no vaginal penetration? That smacks of women as property type of thinking. My body, my rules. But if you are willing to submit to that sort of limitation, good for you, I guess. Honestly, those rules say to me that your husband has a long way to go with accepting you as poly. Keep the communication with him going, and good luck!
 
Although you can't deal with everything that *might* come up, you do want to have some kind of provisions in place for what's *likely* to come up.

Re:
"My feeling with potential partners is that there are so many ways to give and receive pleasure that this [PIV] restriction shouldn't be a hindrance. Am I being naive?"

Seems to me like it's really up to you and your partners what is/isn't good enough. I guess just about anyone would want to experience intercourse eventually, but that's really just me taking a shot in the dark and not at all accounting for how very different various people are. Certainly hand or oral favors tend to go a long ways towards making everyone happy.

Re:
"My personal rule is that 'A' and I will be on the same page before I allow myself to become physically involved with another man."

Oh ... aren't you and A already on the same page? "Same page" as I understand it is a common understanding of what's going on and why. Is there something missing in those terms, or is my definition off?

I guess you and A have an "uncomfortable agreement?" Doesn't sound like either of you is getting *quite* what you would have wanted out of the situation.

I'm pretty sure A isn't ready to meet M or T right now ... :(
 
I know we can't have a contingency for *any* possible situation, but I've been almost bombarding "A" with a lot of "what if's" (and he's been doing the same). I'll admit that his mind is a lot more open than I would have expected, but he does have a ways to go before he's ok with the idea of other men in my life on a romantic/sexual level. We have been doing *A LOT* of talking/arguing/compromising over the past few weeks as you can imagine.

"A" understands that my brain is wired for poly and his for monogomy -- he always knew, from the first we met, that I was very "different" and more "unconventional" than the women he'd dated in the past, and universes different than his ex-wife. We just really never knew about this particular aspect of my personality until the circumstances forced it to emerge. (And it may now help me to understand a little better why I always seemed to be a bit promiscuous in my early adulthood) "A" also knows that nothing will ever diminish my love for him and we both agree that we couldn't have a more perfect partnership in every other respect--we really do have an honest "yin and yang" thing going on. As far as both understanding what it means for me to be poly and how it affects our marriage, we are getting there. We know we need to find some common ground we agree on somewhere between me saying "This is the way it is, deal with it" and "I'll remain mono to make you happy" -- either of these extremes will result in one of us being miserable. We'll get there, it's just not an easy journey. Perhaps when I said that "A" and I need to be on the "same page" I may have meant that we have a more balanced comfort level with a new arrangement--we have a ways to go to get there. In a way, the distance between me and both "M" and "T" have been a bit of a blessing in that the visits need to be carefully planned and that gives more time for "A" and me to have some meaningful discussions.

This may surprise you guys, but it was me who initially suggested the p.i.v. restriction as the "line in the sand" and I didn't have a problem with it (but I'll admit that after getting into the discussion here, my position might evolve...or reverse). It has never been an issue with "M" since at this point ours is a pretty platonic albeit very close relationship. Obviously "T" would prefer that it wasn't a restriction, but is willing to work within the parameters of the agreement to prevent problems in my marriage leading to strains in our relationship. Of course we haven't gotten together again in person yet (that's planned for the Spring) so it's easier to agree to those terms from a safe distance. "M" is a five-hour drive away and "T" is about 8-9 hours away. "A" would be content if these loving relationships remained strictly emotional -- it's potentially adding the component of physical intimacy that is the basis of these discussions.

Unless "A" has a profound moment of enlightenment in the near future, I don't see him ever being comfortable meeting either "M" or "T". As long as he comes to a point where trusts my judgement, that shouldn't be an issue should it? I never had the illusion that everyone would be "one big happy family" -- I'll just be happy if they all don't hate each other. :)
 
Some people like to meet their metamours. I do. It helps to be in the same room with this other partner. Sometimes you can build up some sort of scary idea of the greatness of your partner's other partner, and meeting them can diffuse that: Oh, they are just another human being, with their own set of flaws, not a perfect Hollywood/fashion model angelic being to whom I could never measure up.

It can diffuse jealous and envy. Sometimes, and it's rather often, I'd estimate at least 50% of the time, you might actually feel a bond and a budding friendship with your metamour.

But as you say, your potentials live hundreds of miles away and don't plan to visit YOU, just you go to them. So, your h won't be meeting them. He could chat them, email them, something like that, just to get to know a little, firsthand, about these men that like his wife so much. That is, if your potential bfs want to chat with your husband also!

I have to say, your h is very caring and trusting to be cool with you emailing T several times a day. My ex was always so jealous, he would not have been cool with me doing something like that with another guy. (My poly gf and bf, of course, have no issue with me talking to, even lusting for, anyone else.)

I'd have to say, suggesting and upholding the no PIV is not something I'd ever do. As a poly woman, I need to be able to "do what comes naturally" sexually, with any other partner. I don't hold out PIV as sacred. I know some people have limitations. Some won't even kiss another partner! Some will reserves anal sex for their primary. Etc. I'd just hate to be in bed with someone and have to keep telling them, verbally or non-verbally, no we can't do that. One guy I dated told me he only kisses his gf. I found that so odd and off-putting. We are having sex...can I kiss your neck? Your nipple? Your cheek? I can suck your cock but not your tongue? Ugh. I stopped dating him once he told me he and his gf had made that agreement. It just seems so disrespectful. It definitely puts your husband on a pedestal and your new lover on a lower level of respect and love.

So, with T, can he slide his cock between your wet thighs, between your labia, but stop short of actually getting it in your vag? Or does the cock stay away from your vag completely? It just all seems so awkward.
 
Hello PolyMC! I am also in upstate NY (waves!!). Welcome to Polyworld!

I will share some of my own experience with you, as there are some similarities between what you are dealing with and what I have had going on in my life.

I was already poly when I met my husband, now married almost 18 years. I made it clear to him (I thought) that I was poly, and while I was willing to be mono for a time for us to establish our own relationship ( I was inclined to do that myself, not just his request), after a couple of years and one kid I was ready for more.

He has always had trouble "sharing". Not just me, he has trouble sharing things like ice cream too. Childhood stuff, Im sure. But as I am bisexual, I agreed for years to pursue only women and not men. This was easier for him to deal with, and it is likely because of the no PIV potential...

This past winter, I reconnected with my high school sweetie and BFF. It was instantaneous, our chemistry has always been high together, and the few times we have seen each other over the years has always been something we both looked forward to intensely. I was his first love. :)

This was the "dealbreaker" relationship for my hubby and I. When I realized this was happening, we had to deal with the fact that I was going to be in relationship with another man. Which was very hard for him. Plus, there was an element of "there is no choice here, I am doing this." Which was very hard for me to say to him, and we spent many hours talking it out, crying it out, and my BF was very patient and understanding about it all. I realized that he was also my first love, and we have always loved each other, and always will. It is a lifelong connection that neither of us will walk away from.

What I have tried to explain to my husband is that, the whole point of poly (for me anyway) is that I can have them both. Or more. He sometimes gets caught up in the "you will like him better" or "he will do XXX better than I do, and you will want to be with him" mentality. Which is a mono thinking, that I would choose one over the other. I CANNOT choose one over the other. I LOVE them both. As hard as things are, I do not want to leave my husband. I love him and our family. What I DO want, is for BF to be part of our family. Someday maybe that will happen. But, what hubby is still learning is that I dont have to leave him to enjoy my other partner. We still share our connection. What it isnt, is exclusive. That's all.

We also did the "No PIV sex" for a while. We held out for 8 months. Which was really really hard. I was "done" waiting for him long before that, but we did not have the opportunity to be together all summer because of kids and other family stuff. Now that we are over that hurdle, we are now getting down to the real work of poly, the acceptance of the reality of this lifestyle, all the ups and downs, and all the joys as well. And my husband is learning that I can be with someone else I love, and have a sexual relationship with him, and I will still come home and snuggle with him, have sex with him, and have our family.

My advice to you would be to take it slow, and talk a lot. If you and T are okay with keeping things the way you describe for a while, then that may be a gentler transition for you all. But know that it may become hard to stop yourselves after a while. And, it should be your decision what you do in your relationships. Having your spouse enforce "rules" about what you can and cannot do with someone else, when he is not even around, is controlling. It may make him feel safe in the short run, but the sooner you can get past that the more genuine your interactions will be with both men.

Good luck to you! :)
Willow
 
Hello PolyMC, from another UpState New Yorker (Capital Region). Is it just me or is our area very well represented poly-wise?

Welcome to the forum and best wishes on your situation.

I’m finding this discussion very helpful in that my wife of 18 years has recently told me of her desire to be poly with another man, while I still feel mono. That revelation came about two months ago, and I can relate to what your husband is possibly feeling. Thankfully from my p.o.v. her poly start has been slow as her first date last weekend stood her up. I confess that I had mixed feelings about things actually getting started so quickly. In the end my only hope was that if the new guy was a bad fit that it be apparent early, which I think that it was.

At least in your case you know M and T well and have been having open conversations about this with your husband. FWIW, I’m finding that it is one thing to consider her polyship(s) as a theoretical exercise, but am concerned that the reality of it could be much more challenging and difficult to accept. To that end, she’s told me not to worry since she so prioritizes our long standing relationship that if I told her it were more than I could handle, that she would end her polyship(s) to focus on us. The experiences of some other her suggests that should we reach this point, that her actually ending her polyship(s) may not be her priority in the reality of then, than while it is theoretical now.

Best wishes,
-Cherub
 
And I Continue to Ponder...

Wow, again I am in awe of all the great input I'm getting. Already you guys have made me re-think some of my own pre-conceived notions of what it means to be poly as well as having a partner who is mono. This is definitely an education process with a huge learning curve!

I know it's a bit surprising that I would be the one to set the p-i-v restriction with the secondaries, so I guess a little background is in order. Both "A" and I grew up in strict religious households (he was a fundamentalist Christian--I can't remember which specific sect and I was raised Roman Catholic--complete with 9 years of parochial school). As you can imagine this whole poly concept flies in the face of what we were each taught and believed about relationships and marriage while we were growing up. To complicate things even further, I had no idea until very recently that I am a poly -- when we married we were both mono and promised each other lifelong exclusivity in our vows. It wasn't until I Googled "Can I love more than one man" that I found a plethora of information about a lifestyle that even has a unique name to it! I knew it wasn't "swinging" as these growing feelings are not just desire for a casual sexual hookup. I love all three of these men very deeply, which from my understanding of swinging is a big no-no.

Anyways, part of the process of *my* coming to terms with the potential of being intimate with a man other than my husband, without the pejorative label of "cheating" or "adultery" slapped on it, was asking myself what is it about "A" that makes me want to continue to stay married to him while pursuing other intimate and loving relationships. It was the realization that there is very little chance I'd ever again meet such a perfect counterpart to *me*. As the cliche goes, neither one of us is perfect, but we're perfect for each other. And of course neither of us wants to end the marriage--we want to remain life partners forever. My still-new-to-this-idea perception was, that being my life partner (even in the legal sense), I *had* to put him on the proverbial pedestal above any others...show him that he is still my #1. And the first thing I thought of was to allow him something that is uniquely *his* (although I hadn't perceived this as possessiveness at the time) -- something I wouldn't share with any other potential partner. The first thing that came to mind was the p.i.v. sex -- perhaps part of my rationalizing mind thought that if I didn't do *that* with any other partner, then you really can't call it "adultery" can you (see the Catholic influence?) But of course after all the lively discussion over the past couple of days, I am able to see the flaws in my logic, despite the realization that this updated position of mine sends "A" and me back to the proverbial drawing board with our negotiations--I keep wanting to change the terms, dammit! Or maybe I'm beginning to understand and appreciate just how much work and commitment it takes to make a poly relationship work so that all of my partners feel that they are *the* special one in my life--which they are--all of them.

You guys helped me to understand that by doing that and imposing this "no p.i.v. sex rule", I am really disrespecting the other two men I purport to love by throwing it at them and expecting them to comply without question. And then Magdlyn pointed out the proverbial (and pardon the hell out of this pun) "slippery slope" of defining specifically what's in and what's out. And of course I was trusting that I'd always be able to pull myself back from the edge of plummeting into the "danger zone". Short of wearing a chastity belt, that probably takes more willpower than I'd ever see in my lifetime.

Yikes, things got complicated REALLY fast! :)
 
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I can see trying the no-PIV rule for awhile, but check in with A frequently to find out when he thinks he might be able to let that rule go. Basically, as soon as he thinks he can stand the change, I would implement it. As shown in the other posts, a no-PIV rule can get complicated fast.

I sympathize with how hard it is to overcome religious conditioning. I was raised staunch Mormon and my brother-husband was raised staunch Catholic and ideas like polyamory were just so far out of the realm of thinkability that both us guys had to move through some major personal trauma before we could finally stand to share a woman (and even then, we had years of drama to slog through before our V relationship really found its sea legs).

Do the best you can. The LDR factor with M and T does give you time to think (and talk with your husband about all this stuff).

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Discussions Have Heated Up... :(

Things indeed got complicated pretty fast once I broached the idea with "A" of relaxing the "no PIV rule". Not quite a total meltdown (which wouldn't have surprised me if that happened) but I think we may have stumbled on something that's very sacred to him to the point where he's willing to take a strong stance -- and I really don't think it has anything to do with "possessiveness" on his part (that's not in his nature) -- it's just something he never in a million years dreamed he'd have to consider "sharing" with other men. Needless to say the communication has become even more stressful for both of us (and the actual "PIV cliff" hasn't even been anywhere in sight yet, except in my always-anticipating mind!) and sometimes has me wishing I hadn't opened this Pandora's box. But I did and that can't be changed. And still we communicate...that will never change as far as I'm concerned.

I did a little bit of introspection on the PIV thing and began to mentally recall my past dating life. I ended up having sex with a lot of guys I dated, but very few on the "first date" -- and those were mostly during my "one night stand" experimentation phase (which lasted only a few weeks if I recall). The results of the "getting to know you" stage usually was a good indicator if they were to become bed partners. In other words, I wasn't into having sex on the first date back then and that mentality has not changed ("A" and I dated a few weeks before that was included--by the time we were ready we already knew we were soul-mates). So in anticipation of my future poly dates, why should those be any different? "T" and I knew each other 25 years ago -- a lot of time and growth apart from each other has happened in the meantime so in a way we really don't know each other anymore and would have to spend time getting re-acquainted. (And if "M" ever decides he has feelings for me too, yeah we're really close as BFFs, but don't know each other as potential lovers.) So I came to the conclusion/decision that, as in my dating past, there will need to be an acquainting/reacquainting period before the PIV thing is even put on the table as a possibility. I don't think that's disrespectful to either "T" or "M" since I'd be doing the same thing if I was single, despite the distance which makes frequent dates impossible. And the promise of "no initial PIV" should help "A" to relax a little knowing this isn't an imminent event and there's still time for him to wrap his head around the poly thing. If potential PIV re-enters that radar at some point down the road, "A" and I will be back in negotiations again, except this time I will have input from all involved before any subsequent decisions are made. Another thing I thought of, and would have taken place anyway if I was single, is that any sex that might happen with secondary partners would always be done "safely" -- with an exemption of this for "A" (he's more receptive to that idea).

I probably should consider moving this thread to the blog section as my last few entries seem to be chronicling events in my emersion process, some of which have been a bit cathartic.

Anyhow, thanks for reading and once again for all the great input I've had from those of you who've had experience with similar situations. There is no one in my immediate support system, other than "A" who's involved, that I can confide in about this...I haven't been "outed" yet and not sure that will happen except for those directly involved. But that could just be where I am right now in the process.

Oh, and we both joined the Yahoo group focused on monos who have issues with their partners being poly. That was a definite positive step.
 
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Re:
"I really don't think it has anything to do with 'possessiveness' on his part (that's not in his nature) -- it's just something he never in a million years dreamed he'd have to consider 'sharing' with other men."

Ah, but "sharing" and "possessiveness" are essentially opposite words. Maybe it's not normally in his nature to feel possessive, but maybe he has stumbled into one of the few things he does feel possessive over. If it were not so, then sharing this would by definition come easily for him.

Like jealousy, possessiveness often has to do with some kind of fear. Fear than M and/or T will be better lovers, fear that you'll leave him for them, fear that you'll spend more and more time with them and start neglecting him (not possible with the LDR's but fears aren't very rational and can conjure up all kinds of possibilities). Fear that his PIV with you will never be as good after M and/or T have had it. And so on.

Re:
"Needless to say the communication has become even more stressful for both of us, and sometimes has me wishing I hadn't opened this Pandora's box."

Sure, you might have left the box closed, wondered for the rest of your life what was in it, and probably built up some subconscious resentment over never feeling free to open the box.

Taking it all slow, and keeping the communication channels open with A, are your two most important strategies. Compromise when you can, but only with compromises that you can live with.

Hope the mono/poly Yahoo group helps. Also I can't remember if you guys ever tried seeing a poly-friendly counselor? something to think about.

Regards,
Kevin T.

P.S. Moving the thread to the blog section requires mod/admin intervention I believe. For that you would check out the Moderators and administrators page.
 
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